Praying

Myth of Myself said:

Do you pray?
If so how do you pray and do you address your prayer to a certain entity or creator? To higher density beings?

I'm just curious as to what other people's view on prayer is.

I don't really pray due to overexposure to the concept through the Baptist Church as a child but I do sometimes talk about things (have somewhat of a conversation w/myself) that are on my mind out loud when I'm alone but I'm not addressing any focal point or image with my thoughts or words. Is there a difference in doing this and praying?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks

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ana said:

Padre de toda manifestacion,
amo tu nombre y glorifico tu espiritu,
hazlo descender sobre mi y sobre mis hermanos,
para conocer asi la gran verdad y verla en todas sus manifestaciones,
para discernir tu causa y seguir a la luz del mundo.

Que la luz que enviaste ilumine todos los caminos y permita a tus hijos volver a ti.

Gracias padre que me oyes, pues tuyo es el nombre y la gloria

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The Science of Prayer and Healing
Relevance to Physical Disability - Part 1

Laurance Johnston, Ph.D.

Many alternative medicine therapies emphasize healing from a holistic mind, body, and spirit perspective; any discussion of the therapies would be incomplete without this perspective. Mind-body approaches to medicine have gained increasing acceptance in recent years. What about spirituality? Almost everyone prays when faced with a traumatic injury like spinal cord injury (SCI) or a debilitating disease such as multiple sclerosis (MS). Can this prayer actually help one’s health? Substantial scientific evidence indicates yes. This two-part article will discuss the scientific evidence correlating religion, spirituality, and prayer with physical health, as well as several mechanisms by which their healing effects can be mediated.

Prayer: A Medical Taboo?

Preferring drugs, surgery, and high technology, twentieth century medicine has ignored healing’s spiritual components. Physical laws delineated by Sir Isaac Newton in the seventeenth century guide modern medicine. Under these laws, the universe - including the human body - functions by specific cause-and-effect physical principles.

As such, the body can be understood by breaking down and studying each component. Because consciousness plays no role in such a system, spirituality has been considered irrelevant to health.

In addition, many people are leery of scientists attempting to study prayer. They believe attitudes reflected by scientists have contributed to many of the world’s problems and do not want prayer debased by scientific scrutiny. Society has a tendency to compartmentalize prayer and spirituality. For example, the National Institutes of Health (NIH, in Bethesda, Md,) was criticized for sponsoring a study examining the effect of prayer in alcohol and drug rehabilitation because it violated the constitutional separation of church and state.

Because of such controversies and biases, many scientists prefer to use phrases like “subtle energy fields” when describing their research on prayer-like consciousness. Where prayer is thought of as possessing emotional, subjective connotations, subtle energy research is carried out by objective, “hard” scientists. Nevertheless, many scientists have thought that science and spirituality enhance each other and do not represent incompatible views of the world. One of them is Albert Einstein, who stated “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”

The Comeback of Prayer:

Prayer is making a medical comeback. Given that 94% of Americans believe in God or a higher power (1994 Gallup Poll), it is not surprising that 75% of patients think that their physician should address spiritual issues as part of their medical care. Furthermore, 40% want their physicians to actively discuss religious issues with them, and nearly 50% percent want their physicians to pray not just for them but with them. In a growing trend, 43 percent of American physicians privately pray for their patients. An article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA, May 1995) entitled “Should Physicians Prescribe Prayer for Health, discusses these trends. The mere presence of this article in this highly respected bastion of the medical profession suggests that the barrier between spirituality and health care is crumbling.

Organized Religion: Good For Your Health?

Scientific studies demonstrate that individuals who participate in organized religion are physically healthier and living longer (see Is Religion Good for Your Health, Harold Koenig, 1997). For example, they have lower blood pressure and incidence of stroke and heart disease. Regarding mental health, they have lower rates of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and suicide. Organized religion can promote health through a variety of social mechanisms, e.g., discouraging unhealthy behaviors such as alcohol and drug use, smoking, and high-risk sex; and providing social support and a sense of belonging.

The Science Behind Prayer:

In addition to the effects of organized religion, prayer-like consciousness also has been shown to exert an influence in numerous scientific studies. Although the effects of organized religion can be explained through readily understandable mechanisms, the effects of prayer cannot. After reviewing the literature, Dr. Daniel Benor (Complementary Medical Research 4:1, 1990) found 131 controlled studies involving prayer or spiritual healing. Of these, 77 showed statistically significant results. A sample of some of these studies follows:

Lower-Life Forms: Through conscious intent, test subjects (i.e., normal volunteers with no special abilities) were able to influence the growth of fungus, molds, yeast and bacteria, often at great distances. These studies imply that prayer has the potential to fight infections.

With potentially profound implications, subjects were also able to alter the genetic mutation rate of bacteria. If prayer can alter the genetics of bacteria, it is conceivable that it could do so also in man. If this is indeed the case, man may not be limited to what was previously thought to be his born-with, genetic destiny. In fact, Gregg Braden in Walking Between the Worlds: the Science of Compassion (1997) presents a case that human emotion affects the actual patterning of DNA (the genetic material) within the body.

Humans: Prayer-like consciousness has been shown to inhibit the growth of cancer cells, protect red blood cells, alter blood chemistry, and increase blood oxygenation. In one study, skin wounds healed at a much greater rate when treated with a spirituality-related treatment (perhaps a therapy option for pressure sores).

In a controversial study carried out by cardiologist Randolph Byrd (Southern Medical Journal, July 1988), nearly 400 heart patients were randomly assigned to either a group that was prayed for by a home prayer group or a control group. This was a methodologically rigorous double-blind study designed to eliminate the psychological placebo effect. In such a study, neither the patient nor doctor knows who is receiving the intervention (i.e., prayer). Patients who received prayer had better health outcomes, including a reduced need for antibiotics and a lower incidence of pulmonary edema.

Prayer researcher Jack Stucki has carried out double-blind studies evaluating the effects of distant prayer on the body’s electromagnetic fields. In these studies, the electrical activity in both the brain and body surface were measured in subjects in his Colorado Springs laboratory. Nearly a 1,000 miles away in California, spiritual groups would either pray or not pray for a subject. The electrical activity measured in the prayed-for subjects was significantly altered compared to controls.

Healing through Secondary Materials: Spiritual healers have been shown to mediate healing through secondary materials, such as water or surgical gauze, which they have held. A spectroscopic analysis of healer-treated water indicated an energy-induced shift in the molecular structure of the water. This healer-treated water maintained these altered properties and its effectiveness for at least two years. These findings suggest that it is, indeed, possible for sacred objects, such as holy water, to possess power.

Distant or Time-Displaced Prayer:

Non-Local Prayer: The preceding examples indicate that prayer and spiritual healing can exert its effect from a distance. As discussed in Larry Dossey’s Healing Words (1993), test subjects (again, normal volunteers with no special “gifts”) can influence the outcome of random physical events even when separated by great distances. This research, much of which was carried out at Princeton University, uses random event or number generators. These generators produce large sets of data like zeros and ones, which should average out over time as in the case of flipping a coin. Subjects, however, can influence the outcome of these generators so the data is no longer averages out (i.e., no longer random). Focusing and mental concentration seems to have minimal effect. Instead, the most influential subjects described a bonding or “becoming one” with the machine.

Time-Displaced Prayer: Not only can test subjects influence outcomes over distance but also, amazingly, they can affect past outcomes. Specifically, the subjects influenced the output of random event generators in the past. In these cause-is-after-the-effect experiments, the random events have already been recorded but not consciously observed. This after-the-fact influencing was blocked, however, if another party (even an animal) observed the pre-recorded data before the mental influence is attempted. Hence, conscious observation seems to fix the past.

If we can influence the past outcomes of random event generators, some of which are based on atomic decay, is it possible to influence our medical past, which is also based on atomic events? For example, although annual physical exams can uncover problems at an early stage, there is no statistical evidence that such exams increase longevity in the general population. Although being careful not to encourage individuals to forgo such exams, Dr. Larry Dossey speculates that the physical exam may serve as the act of observation that irrevocably locks the disease in place. This “medical looking” may “erase the malleability of critical physiological events “ that many individuals may have been able to influence at some mind, body, and spirit level if not examined.

A New Energy?

Quantum physics is developing theories with insights into non-local phenomena such as distant prayer. For example, Bell’s theorem, which is supported by experimental evidence, indicates that once subatomic particles have been in contact, they always remain connected. A change in one creates a concurrent change in the other even if they are a universe apart. Some physicists believe that these non-local events are not just limited to sub-atomic particles but underlie everyday events, including prayer. To help understand a number of inexplicable phenomena, including non-local events, many physicists believe that a fifth form of energy exists (in addition to gravity, electromagnetic energy, and strong and weak nuclear energy) that operates on different principles.

Perhaps the life-force energy referred to by many medical and spiritual traditions throughout history represents this energy. Is it the energy referred to as prana in India and Tibet, mana by the Polynesians, Yesad in the Jewish Kabalistic tradition, qi in oriental medicine, or the Christian Holy Spirit?


The Science of Prayer and Healing
Relevance to Physical Disability - Part 2

Laurance Johnston, Ph.D.

Part 1 focused on how prayer and spirituality can influence health. This article discusses several possible mechanisms by which therapies based on spirituality or prayer-like consciousness can facilitate physical healing. These paradigm-expanding mechanisms frequently involve concepts central to other healing traditions. Although often referred to as subtle-energy (instead of prayer) research, the mechanisms are increasingly being backed up by scientific evidence.

Electromagnetic Energy:

Frequency: Electromagnetic energy represents one mechanism by which prayer can be transformed into healing power. Although all humans generate such energy, spiritual healers seem to be unique (see How Prayer Heals by Dr. Walter Weston, 1998). For example, whereby most people emit a variable electromagnetic frequency from their hands, healers emit a steady 7.8-hertz frequency (hertz is the number of waves that pass a fixed point per unit of time, e.g., cycles per second).

Perhaps because it is identical to the Earth’s resonant frequency, this frequency appears to have special healing significance. For example, in mice it can heal cancer induced using a lower frequency. This indicates that some frequencies are life enhancing and others are not. Touch healers have been shown to transmit this 7.8-hertz, life-enhancing frequency to others through prayer-like consciousness.

Voltage: The body’s cumulative electrical potential can be immense. Researchers have shown that spiritual healers’ hands can emit over 200 volts; non-healers produced no more than 4 volts. Because such voltages are approximately one billion times stronger than brain-wave voltages and 100-million times stronger than those in the heart, their potential impact on the human body is enormous. It is conceivable for healers to “raise the dead” in the same sense as heart defibrillators.

Human Energy Fields:

Many healers believe that energy fields surround the human body. Most people at some level can sense them. It explains the intuitive feelings one has for another, including instant dislikes or physical chemistry. The halos surrounding spiritual beings in many traditions supposedly represent one higher manifestation of these fields.

Barbara Brennan, a former NASA physicist, has developed a training program to enhance people’s inherent capability to perceive these fields (see Hands of Light, 1988). A classic demonstration of these energy fields is called the “phantom leaf effect.” After a part of a leaf has been cut off and destroyed, a precise image of the entire leaf can be obtained using Kirlian photography.

Proponents believe that the human energy field is composed of at least seven consecutive layers representing increasing energy vibration. Intersecting the body and the energy field are seven tornado-like energy centers called chakras. Fundamental to many eastern healing traditions, these chakras suck energy from the universal energy field and transform it into energy that the body can use.

Located in front of the spinal cord, a power column or pranic tube receives life-force energy from the chakras and transmits it vertically through the body. Any energy imbalance or blockage eventually causes illness (basically, the theory behind acupuncture). This energy imbalance can be measured and assessed before the onset of physical disease. For example, using an advanced form of Kirlian photography, Indian physician Ramesh Chouhan can identify the unique energy signature of various diseases months before overt symptoms.

Spinal Cord Injury: According to Sherry Pae, a teacher at the Barbara Brennan School of Healing, spinal cord injury (SCI) will greatly affect energy flow through the body because of the cord’s proximity to the power column. Furthermore, after injury, the energy received by the base and sacral chakras is substantially reduced. The effects of the injury are stored in the etheric field, the energy field closest to the body. This field contains the template or blueprint for the physical body. It duplicates every cell and organ of the body. As such, it is responsible for the growth, development, and repair of the physical body. If the etheric template is distorted, its physical product, the body, will also be distorted in some sense.

After injury, the etheric field’s dysfunctional energy vectors must be mended to facilitate physiological healing. Because time tends to lock in a spinal cord injury within the etheric field, the sooner the therapy is performed the better.

Pae says negative, injury-associated emotional memories are stored within cellular energy fields. The body will heal more quickly when this negative energy is removed. She says that pain and spasticity are especially amenable to energy therapy.

Dr. Walter Weston is a spiritual healer (also, an ordained minister and researcher), who uses these energy fields. He believes that recent trauma injuries respond well to his efforts. Although his experience with spinal cord injury has been limited, he indicates that his healing therapies have been especially effective for traumatic brain injury. He reports many severe head injuries that he has treated have survived with damaged brain tissue regenerated and memory functions restored.

Spinal Cord Injury Case Study:

Using knowledge of human energy fields, Deborah Mills treated a man named Russell four months after he became a paraplegic when he fell out of a tree. According to Mills, Russell’s energy lines were “broken and unwound” due to his injury. Her initial efforts were directed toward restoring and balancing the energy movement within Russell’s physical body. With one hand placed on his pelvis near the hip and the other near his knee, she created a circular movement of energy. This was repeated from the knee to the ankle and again from the ankle to the foot.

Next, Mills treated Russell’s etheric, emotional, and mental fields. In these sessions, she did not touch Russell but placed her hands in his energy fields. In a manner consistent with many healers, she stated, “I connected my higher self to Russell’s higher self and then connected to the universal energy source.” Deborah treated Russell three times at one-month intervals. The day after the first treatment, he regained bladder control; soon after the second treatment, he transitioned to crutches from a wheelchair. (Note: these dramatic results represent a single anecdotal case and are not scientific proof.)

Regeneration Potential:

Various animal studies support the theory that energy-fields possess the blueprint for the physical body. For example, salamanders are able to regenerate severed limbs, including the tail-containing spinal cord segments. After amputation, electrical voltages can be measured around the missing parts. If the voltage exceeds a certain threshold, as often the case in younger animals, regeneration occurs.

Children also appear to have this capability. Specifically, if medically permitted to do so, they can regenerate the severed tip of a finger, including the same fingerprint. Given these results, it is conceivable that the therapeutic manipulation of energy fields could enhance the regenerative potential of an injured spinal cord.

From the Heart?

Healers believe that strong emotions are stored in energy fields and that the heart has access to them through the heart chakra. Dr. Paul Pearsall (The Heart’s Code, 1998) observed that many heart-transplant recipients assume the donor’s uniquely idiosyncratic behaviors, including, musical tastes, food preferences, sexual desires and vocabulary usage.

Dr. Pearsall speculates that in addition to the brain, all of the body’s 75 trillion cells have some sort of memory ability. The heart’s cellular memory potential is especially significant because it is the body’s most powerful energy generator, and its millions of cells beat in unison.

Dr. Pearsall cites experiments showing a simultaneous synchronization and exchange of heart energy between non-interacting individuals sitting in the same room. Consistent with the heart’s poetic role, this energy resonates between individuals like tuning forks.

This ability to exchange information with others, combined with the heart’s ability to remember provides one possible explanation on how prayer may influence another person. Investigations by Jack Stucki, a biofeedback and prayer researcher, further underscore the heart’s potential importance. His studies suggest that prayer, even at great distance, can modify the electrical activity on the body where the heart chakra is supposedly located.

Can Collective Consciousness Magnify Group Prayer?

Dr. Pearsall speculates that the synchronization of heart energy between individuals provides one mechanism for obtaining group or collective consciousness can be obtained. He cites a famous example of collective consciousness called the “100-monkey syndrome.”

In this example, on islands off Japan, one monkey learned a new skill. In turn, this monkey taught this skill to other monkeys. After the critical mass of 100 monkeys had been taught, suddenly all of them knew the skill, even those on nearby islands who no physical contact.

Experiments have replicated this effect in humans. There are many examples of human behaviors that suggest this collective consciousness. For example, although large numbers of people deeply mourned the death of Princess Diane last year, they felt that the depth of their grief was way out of proportion to the feelings they had for her before she died.

Experts theorize that collective consciousness is catalytic and self-feeding. As such, they believe that if the collective consciousness represents a negative emotion, it adversely affects society. For example, in a strengthen-what–you-oppose perspective, a flu epidemic would be aggravated by the fear-based collective consciousness associated with catching the virus.

Perhaps an understanding of collective consciousness can help explain why two million people who enter a hospital each year acquire infections they did not have when they went there. Does an infectious consciousness exist in addition to the disease?

On the other hand, if a group consciousness represents positive emotions like love, empathy, and compassion, it is humanity enhancing. Einstein showed that mass is just another form of energy. Consciousness, itself, is energy. It follows then that consciousness can create our physical reality, especially when collectively amplified.

When reflected in prayer, group consciousness can facilitate powerful healing. British physicist and theologian Dr. John Polinhorne compares group prayer to laser light, which is powerful because its waves are in synchrony. According to Dr. Walter Weston, when synchronizing energy fields can generate immense, exponential power. For example, the power of two people praying would be four times that of a single person (2 x 2), and the power of 10 people praying would be 100 times that of a single person (10 x 10). A large church congregation of 1,000 unified in prayer would have 1 million times the praying power of a single person (1,000 x 1,000). Given the potential healing provided through group prayer, mechanisms have been established in which individuals can be prayed for by groups (see Dr. Larry Dossey’s Prayer is Good Medicine, 1996).

Conclusion:

Although times are changing, modern medicine has generally viewed the human body as collection of parts that must function and, as a result, be healed according to the science defined by classical, Newtonian physics. With this view of health, spirituality has had no role.

In contrast, spirituality is an integral part of many holistic, alternative medicine traditions. Perhaps, this is one reason why so many Americans have been turning to these traditions. They want to be treated from a mind, body, and spirit perspective - and are listening to their hearts.

Adapted from a three-part article appearing in the March, May, & June 1999 issues of Paraplegia News (For subscriptions, contact _www.pn-magazine.com).

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This is my attempt at a translation. Sorry if it is a bit off. Undecided It is a beautiful prayer.

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Esoteric studies help us to make sense of the evolution of man and of
human society. This explains the increasing interest these studies have
aroused in cultivated circles. Yet, paradoxically, many Europeans who
feel drawn to these researches turn their eyes towards the non-Christian
Traditions: Hinduism, Buddhism, Sufism and others. It would certainly
be exciting to compare esoteric thinking in these different systems, be-
cause the Tradition is One, and whoever delves deeply into these studies
will not fail to be struck by this essential unity. Yet to those who desire to
go beyond pure speculation, the problem appears in a different light. This
unique Tradition has been and still is now being presented in multiple
forms, each meticulously adapted to the mentality and spirit of the human
group to which its Word is addressed, and to the mission with which this
group has been charged. For the Christian world, the easiest way; the least
difficult way to reach the goal, is to follow the esoteric Doctrine which
forms the basis of the Christian Tradition. Actually, the thought of a man
who has been born and formed at the heart of our civilization, be he
Christian or not, believer or atheist, is impregnated with twenty centur-
ies of Christian culture. It is incomparably easier for him to begin his
studies starting from this environment, rather than to adapt to the spirit
of an environment different from his own. Transplantation is not without
danger, and generally gives hybrid products.

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In India I came face to face with the realization that rooted in the Christian tradition is the sense that you can, and should, help other people; we can aim for some better state of affairs on Earth, for the whole of society. When I talked with my Indian friends and colleagues, it became very clear that I had this view deep within me. I realized that this sense didn’t come from Hindu philosophy, nor from my atheistic outlook. Instead, I saw it came from a deeply embedded Christian view of the world that I carried with me unwittingly. In fact, I realized this partly because in conversation with my Indian friends they would frequently point out that so much of what I was expressing was a Christian view. The repeated revelation of this, even to an avowed atheist, was difficult to ignore.

I spent some time living in Father Bede Griffith’s ashram, and I found that coming back to a Christian path made sense to me. I began praying and discovered that it was more helpful to me than meditating. I would say that meditation involves a kind of separation between the practice and the rest of one’s life; it is going into another space altogether. You could say that contemplative prayer would have the same effect. But for me, ordinary petitionary and intercessory prayer, such as the "Lord’s Prayer", links the events of my daily life directly with my practice. I pray about what I’ve done that day and what’s coming up the next day. It’s a matter of bringing the very fabric of one’s life–relationships, work, and personal concerns–into the context of the spiritual life.

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Black Swan said:

The Science of Prayer and Healing
Relevance to Physical Disability - Part 1

In a manner consistent with many healers, she stated, “I connected my higher self to Russell’s higher self and then connected to the universal energy source.”

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Myth of Myself said:

This is my attempt at a translation. Sorry if it is a bit off. :/ It is a beautiful prayer.

"Father of every manifestation
I love your name and glorify your spirit
Descend on me and on my brothers
So we may hear the great truth and see it in all its manifestations
To discern and follow your cause of light in the world.

May the light that you send illuminate all roads and permit your children to return to you.

Thanks father that you hear me, yours is the name of glory."

Thanks for the links to the sessions dealing with prayer Mountain Crow and to everyone else who has responded :D

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Myth of Myself said:

Do you pray?
If so how do you pray and do you address your prayer to a certain entity or creator? To higher density beings?

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A: Ritual drains directly to Lizard beings.
Q: (L) Even our saying of the Lord's prayer?
A: It is okay to pray.

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If you look at it carefully you will see that praying or affirming or working on "positive thinking" is a VIGOROUS ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF PRESENT LACK OR EVIL and it will only cause more lack and unhappiness to come into your life.

The more force or emphasis you give anything, good or bad, the more it will inevitably outpicutre in your life and experience. That is just simply how the unconscious mind works.

TRUE prayer is "thinking straight without prejudice or bias of any sort." Real prayer is objective thinking.

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30809 said:

Q: (L) So what's this Sri Sri guy into? (Craig) He's [teaching "Art of Living" breathing/meditation]. Is this a worthwhile program for the benefit of mankind?

A: In certain respects, yes. But it is lacking balance.

Q: (Craig) Which area does balance need to be improved?

A: Remember that nearly the entire world was against the war over sixty years ago and it came nonetheless. Meditation to calm the mind and commune with higher realms will do nothing to balance this realm.

Q: (L) Clearly from my experience, meditation to master yourself and your reactions is a very beneficial thing.

A: Yes. But then what does one do with that mastery?

Q: (Craig) It serves to help people who don't know how to control their mind or their emotions.

A: Yes. And teach them when where and how to use those emotions for change. Overcoming emotions so that one is not affected by what is out there and inside is little more than becoming an automaton.
[...]

Q: (Craig) Is it one of the best tools we can use to revive people's humanity?

A: Yes. But don't forget the balance. Facing reality and mastering the self alternating with meditation for recovery.

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anart said:

it seems to me that many people put the focus on the meditation in and of itself, as if it is the goal - thus accomplishing nothing as it relates to facing reality and mastering the self - it is the balance that is key. As far as your mantra - what is your purpose in repeating these words in your head? It sounds a bit mechanical, if not ritualistic.

I think, perhaps, focusing more on the function - the aim - and less on the form might be helpful, but I suppose it comes down to what you are really trying to accomplish with this mantra. fwiw.

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It sounds a bit mechanical, if not ritualistic

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The Fourth Way pp. 404 - 406 said:

Q. In the New Testament we are very often told to watch and pray. What is it in the system which corresponds to prayer?

A. Whose prayer? If a machine prays, what can be the result? Which prayer? Prayer does not necessarily mean petition. Most prayers have as their aim keeping the mind on certain ideas—a form of meditation.

Q. Do you think that self-consciousness can be achieved by prayer? And if so, how should one pray?

A. If one could really pray continuously, it would create self-consciousness The whole thing is that we cannot A man decides to pray and five minutes later it becomes a mechanical repetition of words If one could pray, prayer could do it, but one cannot, because one is not Man could do many things if he was, that is, if he was permanent As it is, one starts, another continues

Q. Is true prayer contact with higher powers?

A. I will not argue against it, but we know quite concretely that in ordinary centres we only have the powers that belong to them At the same time we learn that higher centres have many powers that ordinary centres do not have So I can answer in the language of the system that if this contact is possible, it is only possible through higher centres Our problem is how to approach higher centres We cannot have contact now, but higher centres may have Nobody can guarantee it, because even our expectations may be wrong In any case we know—and some people have had their short experiences of it—that higher centres have new powers, so all we can do is to try to become connected with higher centres by studying how to become conscious When we become conscious, we shall have contact with higher centres, and then we may have new powers and new knowledge

Q. But do we not already have flashes of higher emotional centre?

A Some people do, but they are only flashes which they cannot control. Only man No. 5 can control these things, and we are but men No 1, 2 and 3

Q. According to some esoteric teachings the mind of a man is like a pool When it is calm he can see things clearly and listen to 'the voice of the silence'

A. There are many dangers in that It is so easy to mix the real 'voice of the silence' with an imaginary voice, so easy to mix truth with imagination It may be the way for some people, but it is not the way for us We want to know more precisely how to evolve, so for us all such definitions are dangerous, for there is no instrument by which we can separate the imagination in them from reality That is what you must remember in this system—that you learn how to separate the imaginary from the real from the very beginning, when you learn to distinguish in yourself imagination from reality Then later, on higher levels of consciousness, you will be able to separate it in the objective world Many of these mystical ways only increase confusion Instead of bringing man nearer to truth, they lead him further from it.

Q. Then should man continually seek irritations?

A. Why irritations? You take that for granted and then try to find opposites You can try all your life and get nothing, if you work in the wrong way But you must try, in the right way, to remember yourself, not to identify, to gain control Nobody has enough control. We are not masters of ourselves, and this is why we cannot begin to do this and not do that. We have to study first, and understand first. We must study ourselves, and sometimes we can turn one little thing and another little thing, and in this way we begin to change. One cannot start with this big calm. One can want to be calm, if one is not calm, but that is the same as speaking of such Christian principles as loving your enemies.

Q. Is not the A B C of all esoteric knowledge the death of the seed?

A. We may take it like that. As a matter of fact, in connection with this there is another thing which may perhaps explain our situation. I remember long ago Mr Gurdjieff said about this expression repeated two or three times in the New Testament, that in order to germinate and produce a plant a seed must die, that it was not complete in relation to man. In relation to man it must be amplified. Speaking in general about the work, about its possibilities and about the direction of the work, Mr Gurdjieff explained it to us like this. First we must realize that we are asleep; secondly we must awake. When we are awake we must die; when we die we can be born. This is the process in detail and the direction. It is useful to think about it, useful to understand what sleep means, what to awake means, what to die means and what it would mean to be born. Suppose we want to be born. We cannot be born until we die, and we cannot die until we awake. We cannot awake until we realize that we are asleep. So there are definite steps.

Q. What does to die mean in the sense in which you speak?

A. 'To die' means to die, to disappear, not to be, not to exist. It is useless to die in sleep, because then you cannot be born. You must awake first.

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The Fourth Way pp.406 - 412 said:

*​

I have been asked many questions, some of them very naive, by different people who have tried to understand the Lord's Prayer and who came to me asking me to explain what one or another phrase in it means. For instance, I have been asked what 'our Father in heaven' means, who are 'our debtors' and what are 'our debts' and so on—as if the Lord's Prayer could be explained in 'plain words'. You must understand first of all that ordinary, plain words cannot explain anything in relation to the Lord's Prayer. Some preparatory understanding is necessary, then further understanding may come, but only as a result of effort and right attitude.

The Lord's Prayer can be taken as an example of an insoluble problem. It has been translated into every language, learnt by heart, repeated daily, yet people have not the slightest idea of what it really means. This failure to understand its meaning is connected with our general inability to understand the New Testament. If you remember, in another conversation, the whole of the New Testament was given as an example of objective art, that is to say, the work of higher mind. How then can we expect to understand with our ordinary mind what was formulated and given by higher mind?

What we can do is to try and raise our mind to the level of thinking of higher mind; and although we do not realize it, this is possible in many different ways. In mathematics, for instance, we can deal with infinities— with infinitely small and infinitely large quantities which mean nothing to our ordinary mind. And what is possible in mathematics is possible for us if we start in the right way and continue in the right way.

One of the first things which must be understood and remembered, before a study of the Lord's Prayer is possible, is the difference between the religious language and system language.
What is religion? This word is used very often; there are people who use it every day, but they cannot define what is meant by religion.

In the system we have heard that religion is different for different people, that there is religion of man No. 1, a religion of man No. 2, a religion of man No. 3 and so on. But how can we define the difference between them? Before coming to definitions we must understand first of all that the most necessary element in all religions known to us is the idea of God—a God with whom we can stand in a personal relationship, to whom we can, as it were, speak, whom we can beg for help, and in the possibility of whose help we can believe. An inseparable part of religion is faith in God, that is, in a Higher Being, omnipotent and omnipresent, who can help us in anything we wish for or want to do.

I do not speak from the point of view of whether this is right or wrong, possible or impossible. I simply say that faith, that is belief in God and in his power to help us, is an essential part of religion.

Prayer is also an inseparable part of any religion; but prayer can be very different. Prayer can be a petition for help in anything we may undertake, and also, through school-work, prayer can become help itself. It can become an instrument of work which can be used for reviving ideas of the system, it can be used for selfremembering
and for reminding us about sleep and the necessity for awakening.

At the same time, the expressions of religious language cannot be translated exactly into the system language. First, because of the element of faith in religion, and secondly, because of the acceptance in religion and religious language of facts and assertions which in the system are regarded as illogical and inconsistent. Nevertheless, it would be wrong to say that religion and the system are incompatible or contradictory; only, we must learn not to mix the two languages. If we begin to mix them, we shall spoil any useful conclusions that could be made on either of the two lines.

Returning to the idea of God, an idea which is inseparable from religion and religious language, we must first ask ourselves how religions can be divided in a general or historical way. They may be divided into religions with one God and religions with many gods. But even in this division it must be remembered that there is a great difference between the ordinary understanding of monotheism and polytheism and the system understanding of the same ideas. Although there are certain differences between gods—as, for instance, in Greek mythology—in the ordinary understanding of polytheism all gods are more or less on the same level. From the system point of view, which includes the idea of different scales and different laws on different levels, one has quite a different understanding of the interdependence of gods.

If we take the Absolute as God, we can see that it has no relation to us. The Absolute is God for gods; it has relation only to the next world, that is, World 3. The World 3 is God for the next world, that is, World 6, and also for all the following worlds, but in a lesser and lesser degree. Then the Galaxy, Sun, Planets, Earth and Moon are all gods, each including in itself smaller gods. The Ray of Creation as a whole, taken as one triad, is also God: God the Holy, God the Firm, God the Immortal.

So we may choose on which level we wish to take our God if we want to use the word 'God' in the religious sense, that is to say, in the sense of a God having immediate access to our lives. From the system point of view we have nothing to prove that any of these worlds may have a personal relation to us; but there is a place for God in the system.

In the lateral octave which begins in the Sun as 'do' there are two quite unknown points about which we have no material for thinking. The octave begins as do in the Sun, then passes into si on the level of the Planets. On Earth it becomes la-sol-fa, which constitutes Organic Life including man. When each individual being in the human, animal and vegetable kingdom dies, the body—or what remains of the body— goes to the Earth and becomes part of the Earth, and the soul goes to the Moon and becomes part of the Moon. From this we can understand mi and re; but about si and do we know nothing at all. These two notes may give rise to many suppositions as to the possible place of a God or gods having some relation to us in the Ray of Creation.

Now, remembering all that has just been said, we may come to the study of the Lord's Prayer.

The first thing is to discover why and when it was given. We know that it was given to replace many useless prayers.

The next thing is to note many interesting features in the Lord's Prayer itself and in its very special construction; and from our understanding of this construction, and particularly from our knowledge of the Law of Three, we may be able to realize that, from the system point of view, there is a possibility of the development of understanding through our understanding of the Lord's Prayer.

Like many mathematical problems, the study of the Lord's Prayer must begin with a correct disposition or arrangement of the separate parts of the problem. We notice at once two interesting things: first, that the Lord's Prayer is divided into three times three, and second, that in the Lord's Prayer there are certain key-words, that is to say, words which explain other words to which they refer. We cannot call the division into three times three triads, because we do not
know their relation to one another and cannot see the forces. We can only see that there are three parts.

If you read the first three petitions together as one part, you will see many things which you cannot see if you read them in the ordinary way.

1. Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be Thy name
2. Thy kingdom come
3. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

In the first petition, 'Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be Thy name', the immediate question is, who is 'our Father'? The key-word is 'heaven'. What does 'in heaven' mean? If we try to answer this question from the point of view of the Ray of Creation we may be able to understand something. We live on the Earth, so 'heaven' must mean higher levels, that is, the Planets, the Sun or the Galaxy. The idea of 'heaven' presupposes certain forces, or certain mind or minds on those higher levels to which, in some way, the Lord's Prayer advises us to appeal; 'heaven' cannot refer to anything on the level of the Earth. But if we realize that the cosmic forces connected with the Galaxy, the Sun or the Planets are too big to have any relation to us, then we can look for the place of our 'Father in heaven' in the do or si of the lateral octave—or we can again leave it to higher regions.

In the words which follow there is nothing personal. 'Hallowed be Thy name' is the expression of a desire for the development of the right attitude towards God, and for a better understanding of the idea of God or Higher Mind, and this desire for development obviously refers to the whole of humanity.

The second petition, 'Thy kingdom come', is the expression of a desire for the growth of esotericism. In A New Model of the Universe I tried to explain that the kingdom of heaven could only mean esotericism, that is to say, a certain inner part of humanity under particular laws.

The third petition, 'Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven', is the expression of a desire for the transition of the Earth to a higher level, under the direct will of Higher Mind. 'Thy will be done' refers to something that may happen but has not yet happened. These three petitions refer to conditions which may come but which have not yet been fulfilled.

The first petition of the second part of the Lord's Prayer is:

'Give us this day our daily bread'.

The word 'daily' does not exist in the oldest known Greek and Latin text. The correct word, which later was replaced by 'daily', is 'super-substantialis' or 'supersubstantial'. The correct text should be: 'give us to-day our supersubstantial bread'. 'Supersubstantial' or 'spiritual' as some people say, may refer to higher food, higher hydrogens, higher influences or higher knowledge.

The two following petitions in this second part,

'Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors', and 'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil'

are the most difficult to understand or to explain. They are particularly difficult because their ordinary meaning, as generally accepted, has nothing to do with the real meaning. When people think about the words, 'forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors' in the ordinary way, they immediately begin to make logical and psychological mistakes. First of all, they take for granted that they can forgive debts, and that it depends on them whether they will forgive or not forgive; and secondly, they believe that it is equally good to forgive debts and to have their own debts forgiven. This is a fallacy and has no foundation whatever. If they think about themselves, if they study themselves, if they observe themselves, they will very soon see that they cannot forgive any debts just as they cannot do anything.

In order to do and in order to forgive one must first of all be able to remember oneself, one must be awake and one must have will. As we are now, we have thousands of different wills, and even if one of these wills wants to forgive, there are always many others which do not want to forgive and which will think that forgiveness is a weakness, an inconsistency or even a crime. And the strangest thing is that sometimes it is really a crime to forgive. Here we come to an interesting point. We do not know whether it is good to forgive or not, whether it is good to forgive always, or whether in some cases it is better to forgive and in some cases better not to forgive. If we think more about it, we may come to the conclusion that even if we could forgive, perhaps it would be better to wait until we knew more, that is, until we knew in which cases it is better to forgive and in which cases it is better not to forgive.

At this point we should remember what has been said about positive and negative attitudes and we should realize that positive attitudes are not always correct, negative attitudes are sometimes necessary for a right understanding. So, if 'forgiving' always means having a positive attitude, then forgiving may sometimes be quite wrong.

We must understand that to forgive indiscriminately may be worse than not to forgive at all; and this understanding may bring us to the right view of our own position in relation to our own debts. Suppose for a moment that there actually was some benevolent and rather stupid deity who could forgive our debts, and who would really forgive them and wipe them out. It would be the greatest misfortune that could happen to us. There would be no incentive for us to work then, and no reason to work. We could go on doing the same wrong things and having them all forgiven in the end. Such a possibility is quite contrary to any idea of the work. In the work we must know that nothing will be forgiven. Only this knowledge will give us a real incentive to work, and at least prevent us from repeating the same things which we already know to be wrong.

It is interesting to look at schools from this point of view and to compare schools with ordinary life. In life people may expect forgiveness, or at least hope for it. In school nothing is forgiven. That is an essential part of a school system, school method and school organization. Schools exist precisely for not-forgiving, and because of this fact one can hope and expect to get something from a school. If things were forgiven in schools, there would be no reason for their existence.

The inner meaning of 'Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors' actually refers to influences, that is to say, influences from higher levels. We can attract to ourselves higher influences only if we transfer to other people the influences we receive or have received. There are many other meanings of these words, but this is the beginning of the way to understand them.

The third petition of this second part is:

'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil'.

What is our greatest temptation? Most probably it is sleep: so the first words are understandable—'help us to sleep less, or help us to awake sometimes'. The next part is more difficult. It reads: 'But deliver us from evil'. Possibly it should be 'and deliver us from evil'. There are many interpretations of this 'but', but none of them is quite satisfactory as translated into ordinary language, so I shall leave it for the present.

The chief question is, what does 'evil' mean? One possible interpretation is that in relation to the ordinary temptation, which is only sleep, it means letting oneself fall asleep again when one had already begun to awake. It may mean giving up the work when one has already understood the necessity for working, giving up efforts after one had begun to make efforts and, as has already been mentioned, starting to do stupid or even harmful things, such as going against school rules and justifying oneself for so doing. Many interesting examples of things of this kind can be found in the actions of people who leave the work and particularly in their explanations of their doing so.

Finally, the third part of the Lord's Prayer should be taken as referring to a future order of things and not to the present order.

1. For Thine is the kingdom
2. the power
3. and the glory for ever Amen,

presupposes that the desire expressed in the first part of the Prayer has already been realized, has already taken place. Actually these words can only refer to the future.

In conclusion, the whole of the Lord's Prayer can be taken as one triad. It cannot be taken in the sense that one part is active force, another part passive force and a third part neutralizing force, because all relations probably change with the change in the centre of gravity of attention. This means that, by itself, each of these three divisions or parts can be taken as one force and that together they can make a triad.

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These very big ideas are put in the form of a prayer. When you decipher this idea of prayer, prayer in the sense of supplication, disappears.

Q. What is the difference between forgiving and being forgiven?

A. Subject and object. But we cannot be forgiven. We did something and, according to the law of cause and effect, a certain result will be produced. We cannot change the law, but we can become free—escape from it. We can change the present, through the present the future, and through the future the past. We must pay our debts. By paying them we change the past, but there are different ways of paying.

Q. What are the different ways of paying our debts?

A. Mechanically or consciously. We pay them in any case: by waiting for the results of causes and paying thus, or by changing the past and paying in another way. To-day is the result of some past. If we change to-day, we change the past.

Q. Is changing the past struggling against the way things go?

A. This is the beginning only. Positive emotions and higher influences are necessary. We cannot change anything without them. There are several stages. This does not come at once; it is necessary to work. I have put some principles—it is necessary to see how we can reach this.

There are many interesting things in this. For instance, there is no word 'I' or 'me' in the Lord's Prayer. That means there can be no personal favours—all people stand in the same relation to higher forces, all need the same things.

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