Water

Although I was never sure what to think of Dr. Emoto's work, I remember thinking when I first came across his microscopic photos of various frozen water samples, that the ones that had been prayed over were simply beautiful and I immediately made a connection to the act of saying grace over a meal.

I wondered if the act of gratitude imparts certain changes in our food the way prayer does in water.

Food for thought...or thought for food. ;)

Gonzo
 
JGeropoulas said:
The natives fill up plastic bottles (the "safest" type?) with the clearest water they can find and then lay them out on the roof in the sun for 24 hours.

FWIW: viktor schauberger says that water should never be exposed to direct light
 
Gonzo said:
Although I was never sure what to think of Dr. Emoto's work, I remember thinking when I first came across his microscopic photos of various frozen water samples, that the ones that had been prayed over were simply beautiful and I immediately made a connection to the act of saying grace over a meal.

I wondered if the act of gratitude imparts certain changes in our food the way prayer does in water.

Food for thought...or thought for food. ;)

Gonzo

Same here have his findings or studies, been proven true, or is it just another YCYOR program?
 
Hi Infiniteness,

I decided to revisit this. It appears that since Dr. Emoto doesn't seem to operate with enough scientific rigor and that no one has been able to reproduce his experiments, one might want to doubt his work as complete.

The website
_http://is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/
Represents an attempt to catalogue Dr. Emoto's methods to determine whether it would be possible to actually reproduce his work.

He found that the doctor's research could not be considered valid as he was selective in the data he showed; he only published successes and not failures, only published photos that supported his claim, and didn't leave room for the effect of his bias on his experiments, for example.

This researcher is quoted near the end of his work, saying:

"...After the lengthy review of Emoto’s research methods and results, I have come to believe that Dr. Emoto is offering pseudoscience to the masses in the guise of defensible research. ..."

So,combining the lack of scientific rigor and the fact that he is making great profits selling structured water and other products, all based on his and only his research, I cannot accept it as being valid.

That's my take.

Gonzo
 
Gonzo said:
Hi Infiniteness,

I decided to revisit this. It appears that since Dr. Emoto doesn't seem to operate with enough scientific rigor and that no one has been able to reproduce his experiments, one might want to doubt his work as complete.

The website
_http://is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/
Represents an attempt to catalogue Dr. Emoto's methods to determine whether it would be possible to actually reproduce his work.

He found that the doctor's research could not be considered valid as he was selective in the data he showed; he only published successes and not failures, only published photos that supported his claim, and didn't leave room for the effect of his bias on his experiments, for example.

This researcher is quoted near the end of his work, saying:

"...After the lengthy review of Emoto’s research methods and results, I have come to believe that Dr. Emoto is offering pseudoscience to the masses in the guise of defensible research. ..."

So,combining the lack of scientific rigor and the fact that he is making great profits selling structured water and other products, all based on his and only his research, I cannot accept it as being valid.

That's my take.

Gonzo
I also had the same feeling, its funny how most people just accept it as truth and not even question it, just because a so called scientist did the study.

Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes
 
Gonzo said:
I cannot accept it as being valid.

Emoto has been discussed previously on this forum and the conclusion, at that time, was the same - fwiw.
 
Well, with this explanation of ionic minerals as supplements, i think we can make a parallel with the minerals that came in bottled mineral water. I don't if all mineral water cames with mineral in ionic form or in elemental form.

Citar
Least beneficial are the supplements containing minerals in the elemental form. That means the mineral is just mentioned on the label. It’s not ionized, it’s not chelated, it’s not complexed with an oxide or a carbonate or a sulfate, or with a food, and it’s not colloidal. It may not even be there at all. Like under “ingredients” it just says “iron” or “copper,” or “calcium,” etc.

Elemental minerals are obviously the cheapest to make. A liquid would only have to be poured over some nails to be said to contain iron. Elemental minerals are the most common in grocery store supplements. Most of these multi’s are actually manufactured by the pharmaceutical industry, either directly or indirectly. Run it down.

They may not be toxic, as long as only the minerals mentioned on the label are included in the supplement. The problem is absorption: it’s between 1 and 8 percent. The rest passes right through. Not only a waste of money; also a waste of energy: it has to be processed out of the body.

But for example i have a bottle of mineral water in front of me that the only minerals that is has are in ionic form, sodium, magnesium, potassium and other two that i don't know what are their names in English.
My question is, can't this water have the same effects as a ionic mineral supplement? I have a limited understanding of this topic, but it seems that a mineral water that has minerals in ionic form, in small quantity, isn't that bad.

There is a confusion here. When a drink water reports a mineral it must be dissolted, and this is in the form of ions or other soluble form. Labels said "calcium" "magnesium" etc but they really are in ionic form. It should be Ca (2+) or Mg (+2) salts. It's just an formalism and traditional to call them as elements.

For supplements is the same. For example The label could said Iron 24 mg, but it doesn't mean that there is elemental iron. It must be in an ionic way (as a salt of Iron normally) or in a form that when it reacts with gastric acid transforms to an ionic (as Magnesium oxide) or any assimilable form.
otherwise would not be absorbed.

I think it is necessary to take supplements because mineral waters comes with very few of them naturally and no traces elements ( or cobalt I. E)

Zinc, cooper, and other elements are absorbed helped with biffed bacteria, That is why it is important to keep a good population of friendly bacteria in the gut.
 
Iconoclast said:
FWIW: viktor schauberger says that water should never be exposed to direct light

I'm not familiar with viktor, but Mother Nature might disagree with him. What does he say about all the unshaded streams, rivers, lakes, and oceans covering 75% of the planet? Or is he saying "mature" or "wise" (Emoto) water from underground springs is the best drinking water?

Below is that National Geographic article I mentioned. Note that the article doesn't say if this process also removes toxins, improves mineral balance, or improves molecular structure of water (all effects that sunlight should be able create, given that the sun has already basically created everything on earth).

High Marks for Clean Water
Retrieve a discarded water bottle. Tear off the label and fill with any water that's not too murky from a creek, standpipe, or puddle. Place the bottle on a piece of metal in full sun. In six hours the UVA radiation will kill viruses, bacteria, and parasites in the water, making it safe to drink.

SODIS, the acronym for this Swiss-pioneered water-disinfection program, is now being used all over the world to provide drinking water for some four million people.

"It's simple, it's free, and it's effective," says Ibelatha Mhelela, principal of the Ndolela Primary School in Tanzania. In 2006 her school started using SODIS to disinfect its contaminated tap water, placing bottles on the building's corrugated metal roof.

The result? Absenteeism due to diarrhea dropped considerably, and examination scores soared. "Before we started SODIS, only 10 to 15 percent of the children passed the national sixth-grade exams," says Mhelela. "Now 90 to 95 percent of the students pass."

-Mark Jenkins (National Geographic, May 2010, Special Issue: "Water")

Continuous, strong sunlight does all the hard work of SODIS. But the following tips help the process along:

Use only clear PET plastic rather than glass. (Studies show water from sun-warmed PET is safe to drink.)

Do not disturb bottles while they sit in the sun.

Store water in bottle to prevent recontamination.
 
JGeropoulas said:
I'm not familiar with viktor, but Mother Nature might disagree with him. What does he say about all the unshaded streams, rivers, lakes, and oceans covering 75% of the planet? Or is he saying "mature" or "wise" (Emoto) water from underground springs is the best drinking water?

i would guess that human intervention stripped most of those rivers from their vegetation which would provide protection against the sunlight. the changes we have made to the global water cycle are rather extensive.

since warmth encourages the growth of harmful bacteria, i would think that cold water is best.

schaubergers definitions of types of water can be found in this post (2nd half)
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13524.msg107070#msg107070
 
Infiniteness said:
Gonzo said:
Hi Infiniteness,

I decided to revisit this. It appears that since Dr. Emoto doesn't seem to operate with enough scientific rigor and that no one has been able to reproduce his experiments, one might want to doubt his work as complete.

The website
_http://is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

He found that the doctor's research could not be considered valid as he was selective in the data he showed; he only published successes and not failures, only published photos that supported his claim, and didn't leave room for the effect of his bias on his experiments, for example.

This researcher is quoted near the end of his work, saying:

"...After the lengthy review of Emoto’s research methods and results, I have come to believe that Dr. Emoto is offering pseudoscience to the masses in the guise of defensible research. ..."

So,combining the lack of scientific rigor and the fact that he is making great profits selling structured water and other products, all based on his and only his research, I cannot accept it as being valid.

Gonzo
I also had the same feeling, its funny how most people just accept it as truth and not even question it, just because a so called scientist did the study.

After reading that article Gonzo mentioned above, I did some further research that you might find interesting:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=17857.msg162986#msg162986
 
JGeropoulas said:
The last issue of National Geographic is devoted to Water. In the first few pages of the "Visions On Earth" section, they show how some organization has helped start a water purification program: The natives fill up plastic bottles (the "safest" type?) with the clearest water they can find and then lay them out on the roof in the sun for 24 hours. This is supposed to kill all pathogens and provide safe drinking water. Seems too simple and good to be true, but somehow, it seems perfectly natural -- somehow, quite familiar (i.e. boiling water?).

A more explanation and confirmation regarding Solar water disinfection is:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SODIS said:
Solar water disinfection, also known as SODIS[1] is a method of disinfecting water using only sunlight and plastic PET bottles. SODIS is a free and effective method for decentralized water treatment, usually applied at the household level and is recommended by the World Health Organization as a viable method for household water treatment and safe storage.[2] SODIS is already applied in numerous developing countries. Educational pamphlets on the method are available in many languages.[3]
According to the article depending on the strength of sunlight one will need more or less time.

And while I am in this thread there is another way to remove unwanted solids from water besides RO and steam distilling. It was explained to me by a hydrologist I met in Odessa in Ukraine in 93. Odessa got water from the Nistru river and it was not that healthy, so his retired father spent part of his day cleaning water for the family. First the water was boiled, then cooled, then the stuff floating on top was removed, and then it was frozen. During freezing the water molecules would tend to freeze first forming a clear ice whereas the cloudy and often porous ice containing salts and other stuffs would freeze last. Taking the ice, or mostly frozen water out of the freezer he would save the clearer ice and throw away the parts that were cloudy or not yet frozen.

Someone posted something about vitalizing water with crystals. There are also many companies that deal in this field. In German there is a book with reviews of 40 gadgets supposed to do the job: (_http://www.amazon.de/Geräte-zur-Wasserbelebung-Möglichkeiten-Wasseraufbereitung/dp/3038003107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279045430&sr=1-1)Geräte zur Wasserbelebung: Ein praktischer Führer mit Tests von 40 Geräten - Möglichkeiten und Grenzen der Wasseraufbereitung

It was a very old, I think 87 or 88 years, very informed German teacher who showed me the book, but he had developed his own system which he felt was very simple and did not cost nearly as much, and to his thinking was better, only it takes time to do it unless one has set up a system of tanks and a feedback controlled pump.

His claim was to be able to vitalize the water by a series of vortexes that he set up. He would let the water into a pot with a hole in, in such a way that the water was made to spin anti-clockwise, from there flow into a similar pot where it now would flow clockwise and end up flowing into a third pot where the spin again was anti-clockwise. One could add more spin turns but three he had found to be enough, just as he emphasized that one should begin and end with left spins. The water tasted better and lighter than the ordinary RO water that he used, which again was better than the local tap water.

Instead of tanks or pots one can for small make do with one cup with a hole in, a cup to pour water into the cup with whole in (holding the hole with a finger as one does so), a collection tray, a container for the water that one wishes to energize and a stick to stir and induce the spin direction with as the water begins to run into the tray from the cup with hole.

Besides energizing the water he used a similar technique which I have not got the details of right now to make medicine and he told me that it had helped him to maintain good health. For all purposes of vitalizing water or making medicine he emphasized the need to use new cups and sticks. He used PET plastic cups and trays and a thin wooden stick, the type of which I think is usually used to support flowers and to which he attached a bit of cotton with some thread to give it more impetus on the water and make the spin happen easily.
 
My parents recently made water cistern in order to collect natural rain water, I'm using collected water (with reverse osmosis filters) for cooking and drinking, in stead buying pretty pricey bottled water. My parents are using Lime-soda ash (slake lime [Ca(OH)2] )treatment for reducing water hardness because water cistern is made in solid rock. For the time being this is the best water source we could think of :).
 
Ljubica said:
My parents recently made water cistern in order to collect natural rain water, I'm using collected water (with reverse osmosis filters) for cooking and drinking, in stead buying pretty pricey bottled water.

Sounds like a pretty interesting and efficient way to get water, Ljubica. I'm using a countertop water distiller and it works quite well for me.
 
3D Student said:
Ljubica said:
My parents recently made water cistern in order to collect natural rain water, I'm using collected water (with reverse osmosis filters) for cooking and drinking, in stead buying pretty pricey bottled water.

Sounds like a pretty interesting and efficient way to get water, Ljubica. I'm using a countertop water distiller and it works quite well for me.

Yes :), and laundry is soft and fresh even W/O softener ;D
 
I have a question, we usually buy distilled water in plastic bottle but last week I tasted it and there was a horrible chemical taste to it that wasn't there before.
I smelled the inside of the bottle and it smelled almost like gasoline !!
I bought another one of the same brand and the smell of gasoline was also very strong, so of course we haven't drank from it and use a britta filter for the moment.
My taste is more sensitive than before but something is wrong.

Anyone encountered this problem ? Do you think there could be something else added in the water that could cause this ?
I was wondering if the batch where the bottles came from wasn't contaminated with another substance like a cleaning product for the machines or something ?

I will test with another brand to see if the problem persist and I hope this won't be the case.
 
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