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forgetfullness

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j0da:

--- Quote from: EsoQuest ---As you can see this is a complex topic, and I hope my rambling did not confuse the issue more. Anyway, my three cents on the matter.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for such an orderly approach, EsoQuest - I don't think it confuses the matter, to the contrary - we desperately need synthesis. I myself very often jump from one subject/possibility/aspect to another in a chaotic manner..possibly because it's my actual state of mind or/also because I've been never really paying attention at school/university and never learned systematic work. My approach to life and living changed only a couple of years ago, so I have a LOT to do, to catch up with you guys ;)

Cricket:
Hi j0da.
Can you please, or anyone, define "thoughtform"? (my english is not perfect -oh and now that youre on that, could you, or anyone, also please explain for me the concept "spellbinder"? -thanks!)
I think your question is very brave and, as you perhaps knew since you were posting, an aswer is difficult.
I particulary have reflected on this problem time on time during the last years, and this observation is very strong too:

--- Quote from: Jhonno ---is a big asumption there IS reincarnation.
--- End quote ---
I agree on that.
For me, the belief of reincarnation or not, is a big first step to obtain an aswer: This belief will, i think, direct the seeker towards this or that side.
The other aspect of the seeking would be inspirational input, like the C's.
And even then, how much would this inspirational input contemplate the seeker's belief? One is to think, if the source is objective, that info would come across, despite the beliefs of the seeker or questioner.
So I supose j0da beliefs on reincarnation, as to then ask his questions.
There is the scientologists, the bhuddists, the C's etc etc etc... But I would like to know, how do you, j0da, know there is reincarnation? Is it because you believe on what this sources of information have been declaring (even since centuries, millennia ago, whatever)?
I have heard people affirming there is reincarnation because thei remember past lifes or they have got dreams. I have even heard I am "skeptic" on this regard because I have not "got there yet" on my spiritual evolution, and maybe I will "get there", or maybe I wont.
If such is the case, I end-up exactly the same, or a little bit worst, after this answers.
I have been told I lack of sensibility, that I am not evolved yet, that I still have to do a lot of work... and thats why I do not belief on reincarnation.
They say there IS reincarnation. This affirmative is all over the place.
I am definetelly one of those who dont remember his past lifes, and I am one of those who asks as well why not? what is the point then? I think this is very valid: If there is only lessions.... and if there is reincarnation.... where are the lessions I have been learning?
It is said: If there were no mistakes, there would be no experience.
So after all, this "certainty" (to "know" there is reincarnation) seems to be for everybody but me (those who asks, I mean).
And it seems this "certainty" is like a prize, a reward or something one supossedly gets to earn after doing what we are supossed to do to get to that "certainty".
I do not have that certainty. I do not have any elements at all whatsoever, in my entire life, as to hold that certainty. And I have heard I suffer a terrible lack of faith.
So, if one has faith, there is reincarnation (at least for the particular person), and that I think is rediculous. This is the "faith trip" scenario.
Any other answer besides the faith argument? -And off they go, saying "no" with their heads or as if they were tired of dealing with such a stubborn guy.
So well off they go.
And... er... what about reincarnation, sorry?
So the final answer is I am not there yet. The final answer is I still need faith and bla bla bla...
Is it like working your way through the portal of such a realization? -So there is a portal.
One has to approach, by our own means, to this suggestion? Well I guess it would not be appropiate for me to say "as if I were performing a brain-wash to my self?".
Because, the actual evidence I have is precisely this you are asking: I dont remember.
Now comes another one: reincarnation is not lineal. I might be living a reincarnation isn the future. So how can I remember something that has not happened yet?
Well... does this closes the former... er.... questions, so to speack?
Or does it opens other set of questions?
Or am I now to be quiet and wait untill I get to that future incarnation to calm my curiosity and thank you, good night?
I mean, other than to belive (faith), I see no answer. I belive Laura when she reports all those memories comming down on her during hours.
If anyone comes here to say "yeah I remember past lifes too", I would belive that. It is all ok.
There is just the lack of the experience on one's own life -that is the only problem I have. Because if I were to get memories of past lifes about the which I would had the certainty they are effectivelly "past lifes", I would not denny them since I would then had the evidence and I would come here to say, hey j0da, yes there are past lifes, trust me!
You woudl ask: How do you know?
I would had to say: Because I just remembered all of it! -and your courrent question would be obsolete: It would not be "why we dont remember?" but "why YOU don't remember".
And you would be on the same rollercoster I have been describing.

EsoQuest's genetical approach reminded me the film "Altered States" where the main character goes way back into the past of the human up-bringing, rescuing all that genetical information -which is present in THE BODY one happens to, apparently, choose to go through the courrent life experience.
I dont know if we can apply the genetic approach to the spirit. It would had to be a "spirito-genetic" approach.

--- Quote from: EsoQuest ---the soul is that portion of the totality of incarnate self that actually records experience and grows or decays through that experience.
--- End quote ---
If the original state of the spirit is the "expanded present", what is there to remember? What is there to "bring" to this level (3D)?
So I recognize there two possible sources of memory: The genetic and the eternal. I most add: "At least".
And I suspect that, if to remember the gentic past is hard (although "possible" according to some sources), well the recovery of the hyperdimentional experiences/lessions would be a little harder -although I really have no idea if this is like I am saying it is. I am very shure it isnt like I say anyway so....
Where was I? Ah, the spirit: The thign is that, that which remembers, is the spirit. And I am thinking to say "remember" is not correct: Seems to me the spirit RECOGNIZES what it beholds or observes on it's patterns of harmony between sould and body AS lessions alrady learned, thus, not in the courrent profile of experience. And to me, that is to say: Well there is reincarnation IF YOU WANT it to be, that is, if you can recognize sertain aspects of your self as "already lived".
And that means: Every aspect you do not recognize as the such, is the element of a "inverse reincarnation" -a future one.
I am talking is circles.... The subject is circular.
Better, why not those who are certain of reincarnation, come forward? But not like in "yes I belive". More like in "I KNOW there is reincarnation" -Concrete examples please.
Or?

Cricket:
The podcast on reincarnation was very shocking to me.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=141
Because I have been also trying to understand this stuff of reincarnation with the hope it would get to, eventually if at all, get to explain or give elements to further develation, of certain aspect of my courrent life so I can get to solve them and, effectivelly, get to (finally!) perform some sort of progress in my life or "chain" of lifes or whatever.

Also, the issue of the population on the earth: It always grows and we are getting to the 6.5 billions... as if all the souls were called to earth for the incomming harvest?
This rules-out the hipothesis "new souls are comming every time": If there is reincarnation, there are no "new" souls. This was my hipothesis to explain the state of the world: There are comming to the earth souls with every time more of a faint concience: Souls with less and less concience (or more thin concience).
But after the psycopath exposittion, the new hipothesis of a invasion  taking place, is on the table.
But what do I know? I have no memories of past lifes, no "inner eye", no "inspirational" input... I dont even have dreams!
Well I have one...

Guest:

--- Quote from: Cricket ---I particulary have reflected on this problem time on time during the last years, and this observation is very strong too:



--- Quote from: Jhonno ---is a big asumption there IS reincarnation.
--- End quote ---
I agree on that.
--- End quote ---
Actually, life after death, the existence of "densities", the existence of soul, spirit and anything in inner development that cannot be directly explained through neurochemistry is an assumption. Really proof means proof for everyone. The choice, however, to commence with esoteric explorations I am afraid can only be based on proof for you, or rather enough proof for you.

As I mentioned, the definitions for soul and spirit are my own, and I based my explanation on those definitions. Basically, those who have had experiences considered as proof in reality have an event that can be explained in terms of esoteric causes. To them that is the most likely explanation, but rarely is it the only possible explanation. Yet one will never get results in such things unless one suspends belief (very hard to do) and keeps moving and observing the bits and pieces of evidence that do accumulate.

Progression of development provides results, but unless you are willing to act as if such things as soul and spirit and afterlife etc exist, no results will come because perception is limited to a narrow window of objectivity, which is often just a more collectively acceptable set of assumptions. And the thing about expanding ones window of possibility is that one gains a perspective of seeing things in a new way and gaining intuitive understanding that may be as strong as any objective conviction.

Belief in reincarnation is not really necessary for esoteric work to be fruitful, but it seems to come up naturally at some point as one realizes an inner presence of self in a powerful manner. So powerful, that it is hard to imagine this inner presence just disappearing for any reason, including death. And usually that constant experience is enough to believe in trans-physical immortality because one lives its power.

In the case of reincarnation, however, if one does consider it one also needs to consider what role the body plays in the process, because the body is probably the only truly objective element here, and is thus a line between the proven and the disputable.

As I said, soul and spirit are abstractions, unless one has had experiences corresponding to those meanings. With extended meditation, for example, one can experience pure consciousness as a presence that permeates everything. And one can experience the deep sense of self that is too localized to be that permeating consciousness and is not undifferentiated but patterned, and which can change with experience.  

Another thing regarding Crickets questions regarding belief in reincarnation is that it is based first and foremost on the belief of life after death. If you are not willing to consider that possibility then the question of reincarnation is moot. If you are willing to consider it, then there are two possibilities: physical existence is cyclic and what transcends death returns, or it is not cyclic, meaning this is the only life we have.

To me reincarnation makes more sense, but one needs to weigh these possibilities for themselves and choose what is the more meaningful to them, through personal experience and intuitive explorations.

Even so, any proof can be disputed. Even detailed incarnational memories can be thought of as thought form attachments from those who have died onto those recently born. So concrete examples that will be identified as such by everyone here do not exist IMO. There are indications, such as what jOda explained about the CoS babies, and memories people have. The thing is that as you grow and discover more about yourself, you may discover aspects that place themselves in terms of a full blown existence associated with some past time period.

Personally, I do not try to get into details but try to get to the spirit of the aspect. Sometimes that is elaborated as incarnational details, sometimes as a general historic correspondence relating to an affinity for shamanism for example, and in particular shamanistic practices of particular cultures. And regarding such affinities, I believe genetic predisposition also comes into play because it provides a field of expression for the aspect.


--- Quote from: Cricket ---Now comes another one: reincarnation is not lineal. I might be living a reincarnation isn the future. So how can I remember something that has not happened yet?
--- End quote ---
Interesting question. Let me answer it with another one. If you had no knowledge of the past in any way, would memory even have meaning? How could your consciousness relate to it? It would probably put it in a present context. There are people with brain damage who have no memory outside of the present moment. These people are effectively zombies because they cannot relate to anything. Nothing has meaning for them, because there is not accumulated context to sustain that meaning.

So perhaps "future" memories are simply unreadable unless they can be related to some form of current experience even it that is provided clairvoyantly. Perhaps those thinking they incarnated in Atlantis or other worlds are remembering the future, or at least a future-like probability parallel to our present. And even if you have past memories as a child, those around you have knowledge of concepts and of some history, so you may be reading those thoughts, or identifying with Akashic records through some kind of clairvoyance.
 
In any case, jOda asked a question and now he has some possibilites to consider. The fact that the question was answered in different rational ways points that it is a rational question, which points that reincarnation is possible even within our conceptual potential. And if you, Cricket, should one day get impressions difficult to explain in any other way, at least you have a format of understanding that may help in gaining more understanding of yourself and your life where other formats may fail to help.

Personally, I think you have input, because you have convictions, and its hard to maintain convictions without inspiration. It probably has yet to be recognized as such, that's all.

j0da:
I've been contemplating the issue of forgetfullness taking into consideration all the answers provided by forum members, but, still couldn't reach satisfactory conclusions. It is not a reason to cry, for I think that with enough persistence one can find an answer to any question possible, yet it could require a lifetime(s) of research.
Of course, there is a problem of priority - which answers should one seek first. :) If someone solves THAT, his quest for truth/self/awareness will become AMAZINGLY easier. There are some some solutions to this particular problem provided already, named "ways", "bridges", "paths", etc. - but it isn't making the situation of an individual any simplier - one again has to CHOOSE. If he is cautious, and wants to make a reasonable choice he again has to seek answers for another set of questions! Is it justified to say, that we may be running circles for eons! See, Cicket, you aren't alone in frustration, bro.

To answer your question - how do I know there is reincarnation?
I will be completely honest with you - I don't know that there is reincarnation,  I'm only taking it as probability.
The reason why for me it is probable (as in: supported by evidence which inclines the mind to believe, but leaves some room for doubt) and not merely possible (as in: capable of existing or occurring, or of being conceived or thought of; able to happen; capable of being done; not contrary to the nature of things) is my certainty of one thing: I came here, to this world, to this time, this body by my own choice.
This certainty is an effect of one particular cognition, which again was an effect of wide set of my choices, procedures and hard work. This certainty is a blessing and indeed a reward, as you pointed out.
If I could choose to come HERE it means I was SOMWHERE ELSE. And I presume that if I could make such choice once, maybe I could make it numerous times.
There have been instances in my practice of something resembling 'other lifetime' recall (not 'past life recall' to include the illusion of time to my reasoning), but..those instances hadn't have the quality of certainty. I've been sensing being somewhere else, somone else, etc but those experiences could be explained as imagination, mock-up, channeling, imprinted memory, and what not. It was there in my mind, but I am not certain about the origin, type or ownership of these memories.
But, again, all of this isn't of much use for you Cricket - it's just another testimony of someone else's experience. Certainty can be achieved only by personal experience.

How could you remember something what hasn't happened yet? If really there is no time, then everything occurs at once. So it isn't about remembering, it's about awareness of other realities, other our own (?) identities, awareness of a wider scope of existence. Damn..I just realized that the question "why do we forget?" is valid and invalid at the same time. Heck :D But I'm not ready to put it in words yet...Gosh...now I have SOMETHING to think about...

But, to reach some conclusion...if all of this is so complicated, what we need to do is to increase our capability to take into consideration much more factors, than we are able to take at present. How can we increase this capability?

And..

--- Quote from: Cricket ---But what do I know? I have no memories of past lifes, no "inner eye", no "inspirational" input... I dont even have dreams!
--- End quote ---
Dear Cricket, don't worry too much about that. I think that most of us agree that we don't gather in this forum to take part in some 'spiritual feat' 'ego trip' contest, in which those who have 'mystical experiences' win over those who don't. As a matter of fact, many spiritual masters completely disregarded any kind of miracles, special abilities, you name it. What one needs is commitment, persistance, knowledge and hard work and think you've got what it takes.

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