The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient times

[truth seeker]

Hi All,

its been suggested i leave this forum since i havent read the suggested works in their entirety, so in due respect i acquiesce to this suggestion, & only return when the conditions have been met. I generally agree with anart since without rules or principles the site or any system would deteriorate.

So in parting i suggest that anyone interested in the question & antiquity of Magyar & its incredible influence on the world refer to Mario Alinei (Italian professor) & his 500+? page works on the Etruscan/Magyar relationship. His use of not only linguistics, but also archaeology etc will astound the mainstream historian.... infinitely better than i could ever conceivably accomplish... LOL 

All the best everyone & i wish you well in your endeavours to find the truth....

Bye

 

PS id be happy for anyone to contact me privately but i have no idea what the rules are so i'll leave it up to the moderators to provide my personal email address (ie the "tigereye' address) to whomever asks for it.

After being here for over a year and you still don't know nor have any interest in finding out the forum rules? Please stop feeding, Rob.

[anart]

Hi All,

its been suggested i leave this forum since i havent read the suggested works in their entirety, so in due respect i acquiesce to this suggestion, & only return when the conditions have been met. I generally agree with anart since without rules or principles the site or any system would deteriorate.

Actually, Rob, I asked you to please explain why you returned to this forum when you've clearly stated that you are not interested in actually reading the associated material and seem only interested in pontificating.  Instead of answering my direct question, you've complained about my request in several posts (and not even kept that complaining to the original thread).  There is no reason to go into 'poor pitiful me' mode, though it would be appreciated if you would simply answer the original question.

[Rob]

truth seeker, 


thats the last straw, i've bent over backwards to be nice despite the occasional smart Alec comment disguised within wave BS terminology. 

 I barely finish agreeing with anart that i should read the suggested writing b4 returning & you give me a backhander on the way out?! How dare you!!

I have some idea of the rules but not specifically about contacting people personally other than it is discouraged to avoid various undesirable issues, hence why i left it to YOU guys to decide, so get over yourself oh high & mighty one who knows all the rules to every forum & system you have ever participated in!

Some of you moderators r so pompous its almost funny. How old r you guys, your attitudes make you seem to be typical 'teens with angst'  that seems to be so prevelant in the US these days... or dorks with no social life ..

Some i notice love to hide behind this site's plethora of jargon to launch arrogant & hypocritical attacks on people that dont studiously satisfy your regulations. Well la di da.....

dont have interest

??? Didn't realise you have telepathic abilities into my mind.. or is it ok for YOU to make unsubstantiated accusations but if i were to do it i'd not be showing 'external consideration' or some other phrase. Hypocrisy plain & simple.

PS Some moderators r fantastic & do stick to their principals...



Anart,

your accusations r wrong with the exception that i didnt say why i was back, just why i was absent. A mistake you claim shows disinterest.

Where did i state that i wasnt interested in reading the required material?

I stated that i had higher priorities that while less interesting than the material was of higher priority. There r many other areas of life that i need to focus on but havent not just here. Therefore i said i will leave until i do read the material. What else on earth do you want from me?? Why i returned? In answer - i was curious if the debates had progressed, i didnt intend to join back in due to time constraints causing me to type too fast & make mistakes & poor logic phrasing & a lack of topic research over the year of absence.

I see you have telepathic powers as well. Interesting, you claim i am complaining even though i agreed with your logic to require everyone to be up to speed with the reading. How is that possible?? I AGREED WITH YOU, but thats not enough for you?

pitiful me

? Hey, thats the problem with text its 1-dimensional so is completely inadequate to portray emotion in only a few sentences. I was not being 'poor me' just explaining the absence.

But hey, you guys can read between the lines with your telepathy & jargon addled mind set.

Sounds like YOU r the pontificator not me. I am the one asking for responses & opinions, but you call it pontificating. Curious, sounds like you r on drugs or have a guilty conscience trying to desperately push onto me.

The different thread is to let others know i will be leaving indefinitely & why i cant answer their queries or comments, its called being POLITE. Its a common social custom (in Australia at least) designed to allow people to interact with each other without causing unintended offence.

So despite the nice people on this site, if you guys r a prime example of your theories then you can keep it all.

You r now free to make your usual insults against people who you disagree with but disguised as 'Spok-like' unemotional motherly reproach of a child.  IE you are RUDE!

Oh, you have succeeded in stripping any semblance of desire to visit this site again. Well done...

Please disable my account.

[Gandalf]

Reading the last post from Rob, I have that passage from G in mind :

"More difficult tasks, although they are only subjectively difficult, are called 'barriers.' The peculiarity of barriers consists in the fact that, having surmounted a serious barrier, a man can no longer return to ordinary sleep, to ordinary life. And if, having passed the first barrier, he feels afraid of those that follow and does not go on, he stops so to speak between two barriers and is unable to move either backwards or forwards. This is the worst thing that can happen to a man. Therefore the teacher is usually very careful in the choice of tasks and barriers, in other words, he takes the risk of giving definite tasks requiring the conquest of inner barriers only to those people who have already shown themselves sufficiently strong on small barriers.

"It often happens that, having stopped before some barrier, usually the smallest and the most simple, people turn against the work, against the teacher, and against other members of the group, and accuse them of the very thing that is becoming revealed to them in themselves.

"Sometimes they repent later and blame themselves, then they again blame others, then they repent once more, and so on. But there is nothing that shows up a man better than his attitude towards the work and the teacher after he has left it. Sometimes such tests are arranged intentionally. A man is placed in such a position that he is obliged to leave and he is fully justified in having a grievance either against the teacher or against some other person. And then he is watched to see how he will behave. A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man's nature. So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little?

"But this is not the chief thing; the chief thing is his own personal attitude, his own valuation of the ideas which he receives or has received, and his keeping or losing this valuation. A man may think for a long time and quite sincerely that he wants to work and even make great efforts, and then he may throw up everything and even definitely go against the work; justify himself, invent various fabrications, deliberately ascribe a wrong meaning to what he has heard, and so on."

"What happens to them for this?" asked one of the audience.

"Nothing—what could happen to them?" said G. "They are their own punishment. And what punishment could be worse?

[anart]

I see you have telepathic powers as well. Interesting, you claim i am complaining even though i agreed with your logic to require everyone to be up to speed with the reading. How is that possible?? I AGREED WITH YOU, but thats not enough for you?

Try reading your responses again and see if you can pick out the petulance and the complaining in a passive aggressive manner:

Unfortunately i am apparently pontificating & demanding according to anart so either i must read everything suggested to me or leave this forum.

As much as i genuinely want to read the suggested material higher priority demands on my time such as my dying father, ageing mum, renovating their place, work, & the list really goes on... means i will obey anart & leave until i read the works...

See it?  Instead of answering my question, you spoke in passive voice about what you are 'apparently doing' - see the passive aggressive petulance? See the resentment and hostility? 

And, here:

its been suggested i leave this forum since i havent read the suggested works in their entirety, so in due respect i acquiesce to this suggestion, & only return when the conditions have been met. I generally agree with anart since without rules or principles the site or any system would deteriorate.

Again, the passive mentioning of what "has been suggested" instead of just answering the question and addressing me - do you see it? Note that you did this in two separate threads instead of just answering my initial question - can you see it?  Can you see yourself if only a tiny amount?

As always, we see that what Gurdjieff says about a man is true:

A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man's nature. So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little?

So, we see that you are hostile, quick to anger, defamatory, rude and generally quite nasty when scratched an infinitesimal amount.

[Jason (ocean59)]

truth seeker, 


thats the last straw,

Truthseeker simply asked a simple question, one that you eventually kind of sort of answered:

I barely finish agreeing with anart that i should read the suggested writing b4 returning & you give me a backhander on the way out?! How dare you!!

Truthseeker did no such thing.

I have some idea of the rules but not specifically about contacting people personally it is discouraged to avoid various undesirable issues,

So what you are saying is that you do know the rules about contacting people personally. So you also know that the moderators are not going to provide your e-mail address to anyone (a request you made despite knowing the rules and then claiming you don't know the rules. Confusing!)

so get over yourself oh high & mighty one who knows all the rules to every forum & system you have ever participated in!

Maybe just start with the rules of this forum, which are radically different than the rules of any other forum. The rules of this forum are different for a reason - and they are given in detail to every member upon joining for a reason.

Some of you moderators r so pompous its almost funny. How old r you guys, your attitudes make you seem to be typical 'teens with angst'  that seems to be so prevelant in the US these days... or dorks with no social life ..

This is incredibly rude. Are you able to provide a quote where anyone else has been this rude to you? Must actually be a quote of what someone said to you that was rude.

Some i notice love to hide behind this site's plethora of jargon to launch arrogant & hypocritical attacks on people that dont studiously satisfy your regulations.

But you can't be bothered to read up on what the words actually mean. Other priorities, I understand.

dont have interest

??? Didn't realise you have telepathic abilities into my mind.. or is it ok for YOU to make unsubstantiated accusations but if i were to do it i'd not be showing 'external consideration' or some other phrase. Hypocrisy plain & simple.

It is by your own admission that your interest level in the material here is low. Nobody is accusing you of this - you yourself have said as much, and we are simply confirming what you have said by asking questions.

PS Some moderators r fantastic & do stick to their principals...

I'm guessing all the ones who haven't asked you any questions?



Also, just for clarity I wanted to cross-post Anart's post from another thread (to help make sense of some of the things Rob has said above)

Hi Rob,

If during the year and one month that you were away from this forum you couldn't be bothered to actually read the material that was suggested to you in order to sincerely participate on this forum, why did you return?  You wrote:

Many forum members recommended various readings which i have scanned briefly, but which r too long to devote sufficient time to do them justice.

I think it's important that you understand that this forum is not a venue for you to pontificate your subjective theories and demand explanations from others that satisfy your subjective view.  In other words, it would be appreciated if you could either clearly explain why you returned to a forum that (from all indications) is not a good fit for you, or you could move along to another forum that suits your needs much better than this one will.

Anyhow Rob, good luck to you, perhaps should you one day become interested in reading the rules, books, and/or ideas that this forum is founded on (and decide that they are co-linear with you), perhaps we will see you again, and in a better mood!

[Gandash]

Hi Rob,

in short  I know all those but none proves much some presudo  ..
MagyarArabs are real but the congo is total b.s. lol..

point that none is hardcore evidence…

for example:
The Tărtăria tablets are legit and very good but not enough…
"extremely difficult to demonstrate archaeologically whether a corpus of symbols constitutes a writing system"

Alineie is not that good…
Hungarians (and Basuqes too) are related to Etruscans but not the way he thinks..

two facts about Rasna: Today geneitcs proved that Etrsucans migrated from today Turkey to Italy…
Lingusticsally so far seems to be finn-ugor …

[Gandash]

Rob,

Yes according to lingustics experts you always have totally random matches in any languages, I don’t know LOL it think this is not true mathematically for sure..as you said like lottery..

Specailly for long words mathematically the random probability is very low + to have similar/same meaning is impossible..

so probably this is made up because they just couldn’t explaine how this is possible …

„ different fields such as archaeology, rather than just relying on conventional linguistics alone. „

Yes lingusitics is just one piece of the puzzle geneitcs,archeology etc we need to use all.

[Gandash]

Rob,

„professionals to take the possibility of the antiquity of  Magyar seriously & do the appropriate research to determine the truth.”

Magyar specially Sumerian histroy effects all so it’s like saying you want to know the true human history.

It’s only gonna happend when the citizens of the planet from different countries/cultures Together will demand the governments to set up an international research group funded by many countries.

today iraq,afgahsnistan both awesome archeological sites no resreach going on there today that’s for sure …
So U.S. is destroying history not researching it lol.

We know for sure that Sumerians were not indo-europeans and not semitic people so it would hurt latin-judeo cultures this is also why no research…

Sumerians is agglutianive language like Basque,Finn,Hun,Manchurian,Mongol etc..

in europe, Today Basque pepople are still under Spainsh(latin) occupation..
the hun-seklers are under romanian occupation..

So histroy is sensitve effects cultures/religions border dsiputes etc. so it’s full of politics…

I will send you some info in pm from hungarian sources...

[herondancer]

I will send you some info in pm from hungarian sources...

Hi Gandash, 

If you'd been following this discussion closely, you will see that one of the forum rules discourages pms between members.  A review of the forum guidelines will give you the rationale.

PS id be happy for anyone to contact me privately but i have no idea what the rules are so i'll leave it up to the moderators to provide my personal email address (ie the "tigereye' address) to whomever asks for it.

After being here for over a year and you still don't know nor have any interest in finding out the forum rules? Please stop feeding, Rob.

[Rob]

Hi Gandalf Gandash,

i read your post quote but i fail to see how it relates to our communication difficulties. I am not afraid of new experiences or challenges, i am constantly going after both in different fields. and i am a very very very curious person (have watched docos daily since childhood for eg), though i am very tired i must admit with so many demands on my time.

Anyway, i presume i dont understand what it is saying.

Maybe it can be explained in plain english.

thx
rob

Mod's note: Changed Gandalf for Gandash

[Rob]

This can get messy replying to replies to replies, but here goes....

Try reading your responses again and see if you can pick out the petulance and the complaining in a passive aggressive manner:

Quote from: rob
Unfortunately i am apparently pontificating & demanding according to anart so either i must read everything suggested to me or leave this forum.

As much as i genuinely want to read the suggested material higher priority demands on my time such as my dying father, ageing mum, renovating their place, work, & the list really goes on... means i will obey anart & leave until i read the works...

See it?  Instead of answering my question, you spoke in passive voice about what you are 'apparently doing' - see the passive aggressive petulance? See the resentment and hostility? 

1. of course i  was miffed at being accused by you of pontificating (show me evidence of my pomposity) & of demanding (ditto), who wouldnt be? But read the full reply since the next sentence  states that i agreed with you to leave till i find the time to read the works. You cant gloss over that.

2. remember that you accused me first of

pontification

. Isnt that passive aggressive unfounded statement? My 'petulance' came in response to your claim. I know in my mind that i was not pontificating (unless u have a different definition of it) nor demanding (ditto - people can respond or not to my theories, there is no need or desire to 'demand'). Remember that as a newby i think & communicate like a civilian (so to speak) not as one of you.  You may not have meant it to sound nasty, but it certainly come across that way to which i had a right to respond in my defence:

Hi Rob,

If during the year and one month that you were away from this forum you couldn't be bothered to actually read the material that was suggested to you in order to sincerely participate on this forum, why did you return?  You wrote:

Quote from: rob
Many forum members recommended various readings which i have scanned briefly, but which r too long to devote [my reason=][in]sufficient time to do them justice. ie i dont have time so i will leave till i do.

I think it's important that you understand that this forum is not a venue for you to pontificate your subjective theories and demand explanations from others that satisfy your subjective view.  In other words, it would be appreciated if you could either clearly explain why you returned to a forum that (from all indications) is not a good fit for you, or you could move along to another forum that suits your needs much better than this one will.

Your claims & suggestions sound passive aggressive to me.

As i saw it you started 'the accusations' to which i responded with a backhander back to you "eye 4 an eye" with:

Unfortunately i am apparently pontificating & demanding according to anart so either i must read everything suggested to me or leave this forum.

.

3. show me why starting a thread is  pontificating, (i just wanted a discussion),  & why that is demanding to do so.

4.

Again, the passive mentioning of what "has been suggested" instead of just answering the question and addressing me - do you see it?

'Passive mentioning' as you call it  is in order to provide the reader the 'context' or reason behind my decision.

5.

Quote from: G
A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. (Only for a while, not for ever, few people will put up with being attacked for long)  But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. (True, why should anyone be anything other than nice if not provoked?) And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man's nature. (Why? Who gives one person the right to provoke another?) So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little? (Scratch me & i will stay nice & try to determine whether u meant to scratch me & why, maybe i did something wrong without knowing, but if you continue to scratch i will retaliate to whatever level is necessary to stop further attacks upon my person.)

So, we see that you are hostile, quick to anger, defamatory, rude and generally quite nasty when scratched an infinitesimal amount.

hmm, nasty accusation after nasty unproven accusation, & with not an ounce of admittance of your own guilt toward initiating this whole saga, of any mistake on your part. You attacked me first & not for the 1st time so i had every single right to finally defend myself & retaliate to PA attack after PA attack. Funny how you guys fail to look at yourselves in the mirror, is that because you think yourselves superior to one that has not learnt your philosophies? Actually i'll word it like you would: "So, we see that you refuse to acknowledge, & hide behind, your passive aggressive comments, and attempt to unbalance those that attempt to show you the true path to raise you out of your ignorance of your reality. We make no mistakes & we see all, we know all, therefore we must be gods!, so therefore ipso facto you mere mortal are wrong, so do not question us in our self delusional collect wisdom" Or some such drivel.

Point: do not PA accuse me & i will not retaliate in kind. Quite simple really. 


Infinitesimal? That is your baseless OPINION only. It is not a FACT. I am the only person qualified to judge how slightly I have been scratched since i am the only one the can read MY mind. Further proof of your unfounded accusation.


i believe you you are passively aggressively hostile, defamatory & rude and generally quite nasty when scratched an infinitesimal amount.  Now i dare you to say i am being passive aggressive etc when i have just repeated YOUR words. If u do u r being hypocritical.


Anyway, we can go around in circles ad infinitum accusing each other. We simply havent been successful in putting our cases fwd in a manner that can be understood by the other.

As a business analyst & project mgr this site has reinforced my belief that (effective) communication is not simply phrasing our thoughts in a succinct manner but also understanding how our audience receives & interprets our forms of communication & thereby we need to tailor our format to suit the audience, not the other way round.

i have seen meetings as a third/neutral party where it is obvious to me at least that both parties had the same objective in mind but due to miscommunication could not see that. I wonder how many wars could have been avoided if people really listened to each other?...


In event case i still want to respect your rules or preferences, so while I'll look in from time to time I'll try not comment on thread subjects.

All the best. 

PS it would be appreciated if you do not trivialise or somehow denigrate my sincere wish to leave on good terms despite our differences of opinion. thx

[truth seeker]

Rob,

I didn't find anart's reply to be an attack. The thing is, you were asked (I believe several times) to just take a step back and read in order to gain clarity into what you were seeking. This is asked of all members, so it's not personal to you - any of us would have received the same or similar reply. We can't change the rules for one individual.

Quite honestly, I was initially going to reply as well but decided that perhaps you needed some time away to consider what was already said and so decided to stay out of it. That said, I did agree with what anart said to you with regard to both her and my post as well and found your reply to be unnecessary in terms of harshness.

While you may still be a bit green in terms of how the forum works, it is generally understood that when someone has been around a while, they, through their own efforts, try to get up to speed a bit. I understand you've been having some difficulties in your life and may not have much time or energy to contribute to such efforts, but it wasn't really necessary to go from thread to thread essentially letting everyone know what anart said to you. The picture it seems to paint is that you're upset about something but you don't really want to come out with it and comes across as less than genuine. In others words, it begins to look like passive aggressiveness which then lead to outright anger.

If you are really interested in working on yourself, then why not try to really consider what it is that's been said to you? From your earlier post today, it seems as if you're more than capable of expressing yourself in a way that's truly open. Can you begin again and do that now? Perhaps frustrations from your life are spilling over and what you're really upset about runs much deeper? Believe it or not, Rob, this is a safe place. Give yourself a chance.

edit: clarity

[anart]

Rob, it would be great if you would actually read the input already given to you on this (repeatedly and by many people) and actually try to understand it. Anything else is a waste of energy on everyone's part.

[Muxel]

How are you doing Rob, since it looks like you're back I hope you don't mind me replying to you on the Magyar subject. (I wish you well in your personal Work and resolution of internal struggles.)

And spelling is easy since the rules do not fluctuate, whereas for English u need a good memory since the rules apply only some of the time - probably due to the many language influences & inputs over the centuries. Whereas Magyar has kept all of its grammer rules which tends to make mockery of the common notion that Magyar borrowed many of its base & other words yet magically/coincidentally kept the rules intact.

But is it possible for Magyar to have incorporated borrowed vocabulary into its native grammar?

One scenario would be how English used Latin-Greek to coin new words in academia/technology (e.g. "telephone"), or Japanese using Classical Chinese likewise.

However that is for the experts to debate, not me. lol I am rather embarrassed to even mention propositions to experts, its feels almost disrespectful to them if i question their beliefs.

I am not an expert, so will you share your propositions with me then?

If i remember correctly, the word Sumerian is just the name given by a French archaeologist or some such. Sumer is just a place name. The Sumerian's had a different name for themselves.. but i dont recall what that was. I'll have to search my doc's.

Wiki says it's "ung sang giga" meaning "black-headed people".

(Linguistics is so reluctant to divulge its secrets. We need a more confiding paradigm like "junk DNA".)