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The Wave (online) - Deutsche Übersetzung/ -German Translation

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Gawan:

--- Quote from: floetus on November 26, 2009, 06:51:03 PM ---I hope I am not bothering you, but I think writing authentically, what I am thinking, even if it may sound presumptious or narcissistic sometimes, is the best way to evolve ;) I belief by encountering each other in a teasing way, a person can debug himself quite well. Writing authentically requires the most efficient use of words and that seems to be one of the cruxes of this matter. My own use of language is flawed!

--- End quote ---

Hi floetus,
I'm having trouble to understand you and what it is all about. Maybe it's just my reading instrument what is not working correctly, I simply cannot grasp about what you are writing. Then I'm sorry for it.
Somehow I have the feeling it's like loop, a thought loop that is running you (a program) and repeats itself over and over again.
Maybe try to observe what is currently going on in yourself: what is bugging you at this present moment?!


http://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Program


--- Quote from: Cassiopedia ---In 4th Way psychology, the term refers to a habitual pattern of thought or association or behavior.


In Gnosis, Mouravieff compares the mind to a juke box. The records are programs and playing one will lead to playing another by a process of association. This type of mental functioning proceeds automatically and involves little or no consciousness in the 4th Way sense of the word.


Entire conversations can proceed with the parties triggering various associations, mechanically invoking programmed responses from each others' store of responses.


Generally, when a program starts, it will play until its end. It is very difficult to stop a running program. The person can however notice when a program is about to start and consciously intervene at this point, causing the energy that would be spent playing the program to become available for conscious activity.


Programs may involve mechanical reasoning, emotions evoked by associations, compulsive physical activity, ready made value judgements etc. When running a program, one is usually in a state of identification, where the program takes over from any real I there may be and the person does not distinguish between self and the program.

--- End quote ---

anart:
floetus, it strikes me that you are misunderstanding basically everything.  In what you have written, you have evidenced a misunderstanding of STO/STS, a misunderstanding of the role of humanity as a 'wave reading consciousness unit',  a misunderstanding of vast amounts of what is written in the Wave and a rather astounding misunderstanding of your own level of 'understanding' and knowledge.

In fact, what you have written here is so fundamentally off that it would take a very large amount of time and energy to go through each line to correct it.

So, for that reason, let me strongly suggest that you read more - read this forum, read Gurdjieff, re-read the Wave, read the Cassiopaea glossary and read all of this with the very basic understanding that you do not understand - with an open mind set to 'learn' not to 'misunderstand or to correct'.

To get you started, please read the following essay by Mme de Salzmann and apply it - directly - to yourself.  If you can do so, then, perhaps, you can begin to learn. 


--- Quote from: Mme de Salzmann ---First Initiation
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.
--- End quote ---

forget-me-not:
ok... WOW! Thats wicked! :O ...and even a little scary  :scared: WHAT AM I?!  :shock: what i have written makes perfectly sense to me, so there must be a certain logic in it. Otherwise it would not be convincing, at least for me. So, you think I am some kind of alien? Thinking and feeling in a totally twisted way? Now it really gets interesting!  :shock: I will try to objectify this... ahem loop.

What I would like to know from you: Cite an example in which I do something based on my present thinking pattern, which would be fatal, destructive, or whatever. That might help! What could be the consequences? I really need to know that!

...and thanks for being honest with me :)

anart:

--- Quote from: floetus on November 26, 2009, 08:00:18 PM ---ok... WOW! Thats wicked! :O ...and even a little scary  :scared: WHAT AM I?!  :shock: what i have written makes perfectly sense to me, so there must be a certain logic in it. Otherwise it would not be convincing, at least for me. So, you think I am some kind of alien?
--- End quote ---

Where has anyone suggested you are 'some type of alien'? 

Do you understand that you are, again, evidencing thinking that is illogical, if not unbalanced?




--- Quote from: f ---What I would like to know from you: Cite an example in which I do something based on my present thinking pattern, which would be fatal, destructive, or whatever. That might help! What could be the consequences? I really need to know that!

...and thanks for being honest with me :)



--- End quote ---

Apologies, but your question makes little sense and is rather impossible to answer.  Did you get a chance to read Mme de Salzmann's essay?

forget-me-not:
I have no wisdom to share. So instead I try to be honest.

After realizing that nobody could ever understand what I was trying to say, no matter how hard I tried, I really felt strange. For a short period of time I was afraid of going nuts. That has never happened before. It was like: "The people of new thinking didn´t accept my beautifull mind". I really felt lost! I didnt expect being that wrong. I called a friend and tried to convince him, nothing. Obviously there is not the faintest piece of logic in it. I was just obsessed with nothing. Being superior in thinking seemed very unlikely. Is that what I was hoping, being some kind of genius, trying to enlighten the poor? I would have liked that, wouldn´t I?

Now that I´ve read those writings again, I am embarrassed. I hate being that narcissistic. That is no thread about humbleness. It is a selfish and presumtious thread masked as being humble. How very clever of you! Pretending being humble! "Being wrong would be as interesting as being right, as long as I am learning something" What great wisdom! I feel embarressed again. I thought I was fighting myself but it turned out that this was just some kind of cover-up.

I wondered, why I started it in the first place. While I was introducing myself to you in my very first thread I really tried to be humbe and eager for knowledge, at least I thought I would. But afterwards I felt somehow unsatisfied. I felt so very small, unspecial, boring, like a geek who wants to please everybody. My half conscious thoughts were something like: "Do you really want to be a pupil again? Damn, I am PUNK! That is what brought me here in the first place! My unconventional way of thinking!" Now I think ironically: "Thats very special, you know? And being special is the way to go, isn´t it?" Back then I realized that there would be a lot of work to be done if I took this whole cosmic educational thing seriously. Those special people knew too much about these matters. How could I share my thoughts with them, if they refered to all these mountains of books and articles I have not read yet? Why sharing at all?

While I was reading "the Wave" I discovered many ideas and concepts that seem to be in accordance with some of my own. I thought maybe I was on a similar track like those fascinating people, at least within the realm of Design and Art. There are certain analogies I believe. I allways wanted to discover the essence of nature, to find new tracks or re-find the old and lost. Being original. Being special. Finding a very own way of thinking.

Concerning the forum my thoughts on the layer below were more like: "How could I convince them of my own (artistical/ subjective) thoughts unless I learned this very special vocabulary first, in order to describe it in the words they use, as if this forum-writings were just another "artistical" instrument. Otherwise I would not stand a chance against them.

So I´ve waited for an opportunity to join you. I wanted to be part of it. I wanted to celebrate those new ways of thinking. So I jumped on the first point that occured, that could be critically discussed. Ironically my point turned out to be a "bug". I chose a "bug" to be my very special (artistically/ subjective) vehicle. Of course I blowed it up to fit all those special thoughts of mine. That is what I see now. Back then I thought I would be humble and objective.

I faked an opportunity to show everyone how very special I am. Well, I am not! I am just a sheep that pretends being a wizard.

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