Author Topic: 4th density and mental health  (Read 2943 times)

Offline Twisted

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4th density and mental health
« on: January 09, 2010, 04:13:51 PM »
I wasn't sure what would be the proper forum to post this in, so I decided to just put this in here.

The last couple of days I have been reading a book of one of my favorite artists, Emilie Autumn. She is diagnosed with bipolar/manic depression, as well as other mental illnesses. Her book is called "The Asylum for Wayward Victorian Girls" which is basically an autobiography, relating to her mental health, as well as raising awareness of what treatments, or rather lack thereof, the mentally ill get in Mental Health facilities. That is however not the point I'm getting at, just a little background info.

In her book, she describes seeing notes, letters and numbers in color, as well as hearing music in colors, if I remember correctly.
I think this is called "synesthesia". However, reading that particular passage, I couldn't help but think about how the Cassiopaean's had described how we would view/feel 4th density, or something along those lines. I can't remember exactly, and I don't have the time right now to go through all the chapters in The Wave to find that particular paragraph, and I will assume that those of you who have read it will know what I am talking about.

So, my train of thoughts as I read that, went directly to: "What if mental illnesses are not in fact, or necessarily, that there is something wrong within that persons brain or emotional center, rather that they are more open to perceive, for example 4th density, which they don't have any knowledge about to understand, and are therefore labeled as mentally ill?"

I would like to know your thoughts on this subject, and if I might be looking to deeply at things that really are not there, or if there could be something to this.

If you'd like, I will look up the passages when I'm less pressed for time, in both the The Wave and "The Asylum.." book, so that you yourselves can read it.
Life is not like Gloomy Sunday, with the second ending when the people are disturbed.
And they should be disturbed, because that's a lesson that really ought to be learned!

Offline Laura

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2010, 04:25:51 PM »
Have you read all of The Wave series?  I believe that I touch on that there.  (It's been awhile since I wrote it so I can't put my finger on where).   It is certainly mentioned in Secret History where I point out that there are many "abilities" that people are born with that seem to be 4 D type abilities and it has no relationship whatsoever to their spiritual development.  It is, basically, just a result of the roll of the dna recombination dice. 

We have talked here on the forum in a few places about the possibility that schizophrenia is related to perception of other realities that are REAL.  If you haven't read "Operators and Things," do so.  It is discussed here on the forum.

Then, in Adventures with Cassiopaea, which deals with John Nash, who was diagnosed with schizophrenia, the topic is discussed also. 

In other words, there is a lot of material both on our website and here in the forum that discusses this issue.  Bottom line is this: we speculate that a lot of so-called mental illness is, indeed, perception of other realities.  However, even if the perceptions are real, the fact that the person can't separate that reality from this one and deal effectively with either or both is crippling.   It also means that such abilities - including abilities that have been put forward as evidence of advanced spirituality - are not, in fact, such evidence.  As I mention in Secret History, I knew of a man who could stop a hemorrhage with his touch, but had to be dragged out of a bar, drunk, on occasion, to apply his ability in emergencies.  He also regularly beat his wife and children.

You may also find some clues in the thread about Hancock and "The Supernatural."
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline Twisted

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2010, 04:40:18 PM »
Thank you for your answer, Laura.
No, I have not yet gotten through all of The Wave series. Still working my way through it.

I'll have a look at the books/threads you mentioned, as I find this subject very interesting. I apologize for not searching the forum properly before posting, it didn't cross my mind to search for specific illnesses, as apart from just mental illness in general.
Life is not like Gloomy Sunday, with the second ending when the people are disturbed.
And they should be disturbed, because that's a lesson that really ought to be learned!

Offline Adaryn

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2010, 04:52:54 PM »
In other words, there is a lot of material both on our website and here in the forum that discusses this issue.  Bottom line is this: we speculate that a lot of so-called mental illness is, indeed, perception of other realities.  However, even if the perceptions are real, the fact that the person can't separate that reality from this one and deal effectively with either or both is crippling.   It also means that such abilities - including abilities that have been put forward as evidence of advanced spirituality - are not, in fact, such evidence.  As I mention in Secret History, I knew of a man who could stop a hemorrhage with his touch, but had to be dragged out of a bar, drunk, on occasion, to apply his ability in emergencies.  He also regularly beat his wife and children.

Here's the extract:
Quote
One thing is clear to me after all of these years of study: psi phenomena, whether it is healing or manifestation of matter or bi-location or whatever has almost NO relation whatsoever to one's state of spirituality. I encountered a family line that could "stop the flow of blood" with the touch of a hand, yet nearly every member was alcoholic, promiscuous, abusive to partners and children, and generally what one would consider to be ethically deficient. Yet, certain members of this line had this interesting "power" and were often called upon by neighbors and friend to save lives - even if they had to be hauled out of a bar dead drunk!
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/matrix_dna_illusions_alchemy.htm

Another relevant extract, from the Wave:

Quote
Shamans are born AND made. That is to say, they are born to be made, but the making is their choice. And, from what I have been able to determine, the choice may be one that is made at a different level than the conscious, 3rd density linear experience. Those who have made the choice at the higher levels, and then have negated the choice at this level because they are not able to relinquish their ordinary life, pay a very high price, indeed.

A shaman stands out because of certain characteristics of "religious crisis." They are different from other people because of the intensity of their religious experiences. In ancient times, it was the task of the Shamanic elite to be the "Specialist of the Soul," to guard the soul of the tribe because only he could "see the unseen" and know the form and destiny of the Group Soul. But, before he acquired his ability, he was often an ordinary citizen, or even the offspring of a shaman with no seeming vocation (considering that the ability is reputed to be inherited, though not necessarily represented in each generation.)

At some point in his life, however, the shaman has an experience that "separates" him from the rest of humanity. This Native American "vision quest" is a survival of the archaic understanding of the natural initiation of the shaman who is "called" to his vocation by the gods. A deep study of the matter reveals that those who seek the magico-religious powers via the vision quest when they have not been "called" spontaneously, generally become the "Dark Shamans," or sorcerers; those who, through a systematic study, obtain the powers deliberately for their own advantage. (Again, Don Juan's distinction between the Sorcerer and the Warrior who practices to be Free.)

The true Shamanic initiation comes by dreams, ecstatic trances combined with extensive study. A shaman is expected to not only pass through certain initiatory ordeals, but he/she must also be deeply educated in order to be able to fully evaluate the experiences and challenges that he/she will face. Unfortunately, until now, there have been precious few who have traveled the path of the Shaman, including the practice of the attendant skills of "battling demons," who could teach or advise a course of study for the Awakening Shaman.

The future shaman is traditionally thought to exhibit certain exceptional traits from childhood. He is often very nervous and even sickly in some ways. (In some cultures, epilepsy is considered a "mark" of the shaman, though this is a later corrupt perception of the ecstatic state.) It has been noted that shamans, as children, are often morbidly sensitive, have weak hearts, disordered digestion, and are subject to vertigo. There are those who would consider such symptoms to be incipient mental illness, but the fact is extensive studies have shown that the so-called hallucinations or visions consist of elements that follow a particular model that is consistent from culture to culture, from age to age, and is composed of an amazingly rich theoretical content. It could even be said that persons who "go mad," are "failed shamans" who have failed either because of a flaw in the transmission of the genetics, or because of environmental factors. At the same time, there are many more myths of failed Shamanic heroes than of successful ones, so the warnings of what can happen have long been in place. Mircea Eliade remarks that:

... The mentally ill patient proves to be an unsuccessful mystic or, better, the caricature of a mystic. His experience is without religious content, even if it appears to resemble a religious experience, just as an act of autoeroticism arrives at the same physiological result as a sexual act properly speaking (seminal emission), yet at the same time is but a caricature of the latter because it is without the concrete presence of the partner. [Eliade, Shamanism, 1964]
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave12e1.htm

Offline Laura

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2010, 05:17:47 PM »
That's it, thanks Adaryn.

See, Twisted, all the many answers you could be finding by reading what is already there?
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline Ghostdoghaiku

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2010, 12:37:09 AM »
In her book, she describes seeing notes, letters and numbers in color, as well as hearing music in colors, if I remember correctly.
I think this is called "synesthesia". However, reading that particular passage, I couldn't help but think about how the Cassiopaean's had described how we would view/feel 4th density, or something along those lines. I can't remember exactly, and I don't have the time right now to go through all the chapters in The Wave to find that particular paragraph, and I will assume that those of you who have read it will know what I am talking about.

So, my train of thoughts as I read that, went directly to: "What if mental illnesses are not in fact, or necessarily, that there is something wrong within that persons brain or emotional center, rather that they are more open to perceive, for example 4th density, which they don't have any knowledge about to understand, and are therefore labeled as mentally ill?"

When I play music, especially when in improve mode, I see music as shape, color and a tactile series.

Also I wanted to mention, Philip K. Dick, the fabulous sci-fi writer, suffered from schizophrenia and the idea that it may have to do with an altered personal relationship with 'time' and wasn't necessarily a sickness, often came up in his writings.  I think "Martian Time Slip" and "A Scanner Darkly", both deal with that subject, though I don't absolutely remember.
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Offline Twisted

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 01:37:45 AM »
That's it, thanks Adaryn.

See, Twisted, all the many answers you could be finding by reading what is already there?

I see! And I know also, that there's probably gonna be a topic already existing for the many things I should wonder about along the way. The search button is my friend (though I did search, but obviously I searched the wrong terms to find what I was looking for)
Anyway, reading that what Luthien posted, I feel maybe I have already read that, but that I didn't fully comprehend and understand it before I had a "hook" of my very own to "hang my coat" on, if you will - that being reading the book I did, and then connect it in the way I did.
Life is not like Gloomy Sunday, with the second ending when the people are disturbed.
And they should be disturbed, because that's a lesson that really ought to be learned!

Offline kannas

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 02:38:37 AM »
Twisted, thank you for posting about "The Asylum for Wayward Victorian Girls." The book seems like an intriguing read, and I'll put this on my list. It's been a good while since I've read something such as this as an autobiography dealing with mental illness or some type of disorder. The last books I had read that are similar was one about a woman with schizophrenia and several books by a woman with autism. I do not recall the titles or authors. I have read about synesthesia before and I've been trying to recall an author who experiences this.

  It is certainly mentioned in Secret History where I point out that there are many "abilities" that people are born with that seem to be 4 D type abilities and it has no relationship whatsoever to their spiritual development.  It is, basically, just a result of the roll of the dna recombination dice. 

We have talked here on the forum in a few places about the possibility that schizophrenia is related to perception of other realities that are REAL.  If you haven't read "Operators and Things," do so.  It is discussed here on the forum.

Then, in Adventures with Cassiopaea, which deals with John Nash, who was diagnosed with schizophrenia, the topic is discussed also. 

In other words, there is a lot of material both on our website and here in the forum that discusses this issue.  Bottom line is this: we speculate that a lot of so-called mental illness is, indeed, perception of other realities.  However, even if the perceptions are real, the fact that the person can't separate that reality from this one and deal effectively with either or both is crippling.   It also means that such abilities - including abilities that have been put forward as evidence of advanced spirituality - are not, in fact, such evidence. 

With this thread came the reply by Laura and the excellent quotes by Adaryn in which correlates with what I am interested in and for my own digging around lately as I've been putting some things together. I had read what was quoted by Adaryn in the texts; however, I hadn't remembered until this thread.

And the last paragraph of the last quote from The Wave by Adaryn:


... The mentally ill patient proves to be an unsuccessful mystic or, better, the caricature of a mystic. His experience is without religious content, even if it appears to resemble a religious experience, just as an act of autoeroticism arrives at the same physiological result as a sexual act properly speaking (seminal emission), yet at the same time is but a caricature of the latter because it is without the concrete presence of the partner. [Eliade, Shamanism, 1964]

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/wave12e1.htm

I had done a study concerning mystics a few years ago, and I find the above interesting. In time, I'll gather together the excerpts from the sources I have, and my thoughts and experiences when I researched mystics and get it written down for a post. Oh, and I'll definitely also do an active search and research at Cassiopaea.  :) I've bookmarked this thread for later reference.

Inquiring minds long for truth of the heart, seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to the essence of things and phenomena, and into themselves...Socrates' words, 'know thyself' remain an imperative for all those who seek true knowledge and being. -G. I. Gurdjieff

Offline Twisted

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2010, 03:35:28 AM »
Twisted, thank you for posting about "The Asylum for Wayward Victorian Girls." The book seems like an intriguing read, and I'll put this on my list. It's been a good while since I've read something such as this as an autobiography dealing with mental illness or some type of disorder. The last books I had read that are similar was one about a woman with schizophrenia and several books by a woman with autism. I do not recall the titles or authors. I have read about synesthesia before and I've been trying to recall an author who experiences this.

I'm glad to see you are finding the book to be of interest. It is a great read for sure, and should be mandatory reading material for anyone "treating" the mentally ill, or just anyone at all for that matter. I was unable to put it down until I had finished it, and already plan to re-read it very soon.
As far as I know, the only place to get a hold of this book at the moment is HERE

More about the book:

"Culled directly from Emilie Autumn's real-life diary entries, the story begins with Emilie's suicide attempt and prompt imprisonment inside a psychiatric hospital. Sparing no detail, Emilie shows us exactly what goes on inside this house of horrors, exposing secrets that the general public could never have guessed at. Narrated with the sarcastic and self-deprecating humor present in all of Emilie's works, much of the subject matter may be considered controversial, and even dangerous.
Still, as in her song lyrics, Emilie tells the truth at all costs, thrusting the brave reader into a play by play accounting of her bi-polar episodes, even providing photos - blood, cuts and all. The story takes an unexpected turn when, whilst still in the psych ward, Emilie discovers evidence of a parallel dimension - a world that soon becomes undiscerable from her own"
Life is not like Gloomy Sunday, with the second ending when the people are disturbed.
And they should be disturbed, because that's a lesson that really ought to be learned!

Offline kannas

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2010, 03:43:53 AM »
Hi Twisted,

I'm definitely interested in this book. I did some research on the books I mentioned that I couldn't recall the titles or authors, and found them.

Nobody Nowhere: The Remarkable Autobiography of an Autistic Girl, and Somebody Somewhere: Breaking Free from the World of Autism by Donna Williams

Nola: A Memoir of Faith, Art, and Madness by Robin Hemley

Nola is one book I do want to reread. It has been a long time since I read it.

Here are the reviews for Nola at Amazon:

Quote
Amazon.com Review

Robin Hemley, author of the illuminating nonfiction book "Turning Life into Fiction," relates the poignant story of his brilliant but schizophrenic sister, Nola, who died at age 25. But it is more than just her story; this is a tender examination of a talented life lost too soon, and of a family that loved each other desperately, despite the pain that Nola's illness cost them all.

Hemley takes the memoir form further than mere recollection of familial events, and delves into the arena of imagination and what if. His mission to tell Nola's story is complicated by the fickleness of family members' memories, the mystic nature of much of Nola's work, and his own admission that he covets her strange and wonderful story himself. The result is a surprising and honest process of both writing and discovery--finding the "facts" and revealing the truths about the way we remember and what we try to forget. This is not a book to rush through, but one to savor and think about for a good long time. --Susan Swartwout


From Publishers Weekly

A diagnosed schizophrenic, Nola Hemley died in 1973 of a medication overdose at the age of 25. In this affecting, highly inventive memoir, Hemley's younger half-brother, a creative writing teacher and the author of Turning Life into Fiction, attempts to understand what led his gifted sister down the path toward mental illness, drawing on her journals and artwork as well as his own memories of her. There are, he discovers, no obvious answers, and his frustration in trying to comprehend the workings of Nola's mind is palpable:

"Whatever I say condemns her, romanticizes her, lies about her, idolizes her, but never, never recreates her in all her complexity." Perhaps that's why the book keeps veering away from its ostensible subject to tell the story of the author's own childhood and to explore his parents' lives. In the end, Hemley's strikingly, often fascinatingly, postmodern narrative tells us more about the challenges and ramifications of writing a personal memoir than about its subject's life. Readers in search of an in-depth account of a family's struggle with mental illness may come away frustrated by Hemley's sometimes oblique treatment of this theme, but those interested in writing as a process will find his articulate musings amply rewarding.
Copyright 1998 Reed Business Information, Inc.
Inquiring minds long for truth of the heart, seek it, strive to solve the problems set by life, try to penetrate to the essence of things and phenomena, and into themselves...Socrates' words, 'know thyself' remain an imperative for all those who seek true knowledge and being. -G. I. Gurdjieff

Offline Twisted

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2010, 03:51:04 AM »
Thank you for the titles kannas. I will be sure to put those books in my very own "to read"-list. The Nola book definitely sounds very intriguing!
Life is not like Gloomy Sunday, with the second ending when the people are disturbed.
And they should be disturbed, because that's a lesson that really ought to be learned!

Offline Laura

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2010, 10:53:04 AM »
There's another book about Victorian spiritualism and women, how it was one means that women could use to regain power over their own lives... it's by a sociologist but for some reason, I can't find it and cite the title and author.  I'll see if it is downstairs and try to post the title and blurb later.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline Twisted

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2010, 01:27:28 PM »
That would be great, Laura :)
Life is not like Gloomy Sunday, with the second ending when the people are disturbed.
And they should be disturbed, because that's a lesson that really ought to be learned!

Offline trendsetter37

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Re: 4th density and mental health
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 04:30:37 PM »
Quote
Q: (L) Jan and I are very curious about artistic expression at 4th density. We experience art and music in a very positive and moving way, most of us, in this realm, and sometimes music can be very sublime and very transforming. It can move one in a lot of very unusual ways. What is it like in 4th density?

A: In 4th, you can "see" sounds and "hear" colors, for example.

The above quote comes from the transcript section (14Jan95). I have been reading through the transcripts and when I saw this mentioned I remembered reading about  an account on reddit's AMA section where some people have to "struggle" with this "condition".

It is very interesting to say the least.
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