Breast Feeding - It's the best, but...

Laura

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The exchange in this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=15625.0 really got me to thinking about Breast Feeding and who is promoting the "prolonged" breast feeding and why? There's something that just doesn't meet the eye here and I don't know what it is. So, I decided to open a thread on the topic in order to start to try to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I think we should find the studies, check them, analyze them, and come to some sort of reasonable consensus about it.

My instinct about it is that all babies should be breast fed (if possible) for about one year. When they get teeth, it is time to wean them. I know that there is the "prolonged breast feeding" school, but I really want to know what their data is and who developed it. I have the very strong suspicion that we are going to find something very ugly...
 
I read an article the other day about how human breast milk contains more than 200 plus toxins. So what better way to introduce toxins to an infant at the developing stage and for longer the better. I'll try and find the article and post a link to it.
 
_http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19125634.400-breast-is-best-but-watch-out-for-the-allergies.html

Breast is best, but watch out for the allergies

* 05 August 2006 by Matt Kaplan

MOTHER'S milk is undeniably the most nutritious food for babies, but can they have too much of a good thing? While exclusive breastfeeding during the first six months of a child's life is thought to help prevent allergies, it is not clear whether further breastfeeding is beneficial in this way.

Twenty years ago researchers at the Helsinki Skin and Allergy Hospital in Finland asked 200 mothers of newborns to maintain exclusive breastfeeding for as long as possible. The children were assessed for allergies at ages 5, 11 and 20.

Exclusive breastfeeding for nine months or more actually appeared to increase the chances of a baby developing allergic conditions such as eczema and food hypersensitivity. At age 5, 56 per cent of children with a family history of allergy who had been breastfed for nine months or more had allergic symptoms, compared with 20 per cent of those who had been breastfed for between two and six months.

The researchers noticed that children who developed allergies after prolonged exclusive breastfeeding were most likely to do so during the first years of life, suggesting that environmental factors such as pollen exposure, diet and disease are the more important factors in the onset of allergies in later childhood and early adulthood.

"A beautiful hypothesis is that there is a time window when the immune system needs to be exposed to external antigens for it to develop properly," says team member Maria Pesonen, although more research is needed to be sure.

Another hypothesis might be the concentration load of toxins in fat milk?
 
I always was "for" long breasfeeding, thinking it was only natural. Now, most of my sources were from the Leche League whose aim is to promote breastfeeding.
BTW, the WHO advocates exclusive breastfeeding till 6 months and then partial breastfeeding till 24 months or beyond.
http://www.who.int/topics/breastfeeding/en/
Hmmm…
 
Here is an article from the U of California discussing a possible connection between toxins in breast milk and autism.

http://www.ucsf.edu/science-cafe/conversations/merzenich/

A brief excerpt:

There is a second probable contributor to the problem and that's the increased rate of nursing and increased rate of duration of nursing in American populations. So over the past 30 years for very good reasons, for the health of infants, more and more mothers are nursing their babies. We have gone from a nursing rate of about 25 percent roughly a quarter of babies being nursed by their mothers to about 75 percent. The average duration that mothers nurse their infants now is about twice as great as it was 30 years ago. This is a positive and good and healthy thing. The problem is that these chemicals are concentrated in breast milk at a level of about six fold as they are in regular body tissues. Because they are concentrated in fat, in a sense the mother is concentrating these poisons and delivering them in relatively high dose levels to infants
 
I remember a while ago watching a documentary on Channel 4 called " Extreme Breastfeeding".

As the title implies it went for the sensational end of the spectrum. From what I remember there were women who were still breastfeeding children of 8 or 9 even 12. The feel I got from this documentary was that the mother was getting something out of it, either emotionally or hormonally that they were unable to move on from. Obviously there was also the issue of treating an older child like an infant.

I tried to find a link for this documentary online but couldn't there was a snippet on Youtube but you would need to see the whole documentary.

Maybe someone else knows of a link to it?

Obviously as I said it is about unusually prolonged breastfeeding but it was interesting.
 
I always wondered why it was said in the quran that mothers give milk to chidren during two entire years. We learnt that in school and I always wondered why there should be any "divine" decree to something that should occur naturally. What's allah/yahwh followers point in insisting on it?
 
The problem is that these chemicals are concentrated in breast milk at a level of about six fold as they are in regular body tissues. Because they are concentrated in fat, in a sense the mother is concentrating these poisons and delivering them in relatively high dose levels to infants

That makes sense, and infants still don't have their body systems well developed, so they have a lot more trouble dealing with all that load, or it could have more negative consequences in their development.
 
Psyche said:
The problem is that these chemicals are concentrated in breast milk at a level of about six fold as they are in regular body tissues. Because they are concentrated in fat, in a sense the mother is concentrating these poisons and delivering them in relatively high dose levels to infants

That makes sense, and infants still don't have their body systems well developed, so they have a lot more trouble dealing with all that load, or it could have more negative consequences in their development.
Very interesting, and abit disturbing also for me personally. I breastfed 3 children, and they all had problem with my milk. Tummy-aches and just feeling uneasy, until I switched to a formula around age 7-8 months, when they grew teeth.
I have no doubt, that I've been loaded with toxins since I never detoxed at all until after I had my babies.
 
Psyche said:
The researchers noticed that children who developed allergies after prolonged exclusive breastfeeding were most likely to do so during the first years of life, suggesting that environmental factors such as pollen exposure, diet and disease are the more important factors in the onset of allergies in later childhood and early adulthood.

The subject of allergies and breastfeeding is a bit weird. There is a lot of studies going from the 80-s onward about breastfeeding being protective against allergies, leukemia, breast cancer in adulthood, but they pretty much all compare breastfed and formula-fed babies (like this one: \\\http://children.webmd.com/news/20080107/breastfeeding-may-lower-allergy-risk), and consider everything after 4 or 6 months of child's age "prolonged breastfeeding". There is really pretty much nothing in the studies at all about breastfeeding being in in any way beneficial or protective past 6 months of baby's age.

The one quoted above is talking about children breastfed exclusively, i.e., mother's milk only, for 9 months or later, which is way beyond what everyone currently recommends, and actually hard to imagine -- most normally developing 6-months old who is not confined to the crib all day will take some interest in the food the parent is eating, and it's the most natural thing to give her some here and there, so it will no longer be exclusive breastfeeding then.

If we are talking about truly prolonged breastfeeding, i.e., past 15-18 months of the child's age, the only actual studies will be from developing african and south-asian countries where this is a traditional practice (example: \\\http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8921445). What they see there is children who are breastfed for a few years are smaller than their early weaned peers, and there's more mortality among them from all diseases but diarrhea, from which there's less mortality.

I doubt that these data are transferable onto a western population, for the following reasons. First, the scales for children's height and weight here are based on formula-fed babies from 60-s and 70-s. Formula-fed babies are on average bigger, so even if a breast-fed child in a western country is smaller than her peers, that's rarely a cause for concern. And second, going back to the breastfeeding in developing countries, when they look at mothers' actual behavior, they see that the mothers tend to wean stronger and bigger children earlier, and keep nursing longer those who are already smaller and sickly.

So, the results they see there are likely due to subconscious selection of children and parenting strategies rather than the direct results of breastfeeding. Other than diarrhea, I would guess. Diarrhea is one of the main risks for childhood morbidity and mortality in developing countries. The child who is breastfeeding more will be eating less food, and therefore be less likely to pick up germs. Also, protection from gastrointestinal infection is the strongest effect of breastfeeding which came from the studies on western population, and that's also the the one where it has been shown that maternal antibodies directly affect the virus (\\\http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/119/5/941, there was one more recent one which showed how the antibodies line the child's intestinal wall, but I can't find it at the moment). But again, there's less of a risk of diarrhea in western world anyway, so that's not exactly transferrable as a scientific justification for the practice for older children.

I think also that WHO's recommendations to breastfeed until 24 m. are based on the situation in developing countries. It agrees with the traditional practices there, and it aims to combat diarrhea. This is a more recent policy; the previous one was to push formula for better nutrition but the results were very negative. Babies on formula had mush higher morbidity and mortality rates. Turned out, the mothers were either using contaminated water, not knowing any better, or rationing formula to save it. Basically, that western practice didn't at all fit the local conditions, and that's why the change.

From what I can see, the growing practice of prolonged nursing in western countries is not based on any studies but rather on the changes in overall parenting style among certain groups. Prolonged nursing goes well with co-sleeping, slings, attachment parenting etc. The main rationale is to listen to the needs of the child and follow them. So, people decide not to quit nursing at a certain time but rather to wait until the child is done and ready. For most kids, if the parent were to wait, that moment supposedly does come anywhere between 1 and 4 years of age. And long before it comes, nursing is already very limited and stops being the main focus of nutrition or the main activity for the child. It's more like a hug at the beginning and the end of the day and part of the closeness with the mother. Some of my friends nurse a long time, and they say that their toddlers would nurse a lot when they are sick, but can even skip a day when they are healthy.

This practice can possibly be prone to transference and projections form the parent's side, but in and of itself, I am not sure that nursing for, say, 2 years instead of 1 will make a noticeable difference either way: what exactly the parent does and how he\she does it will probably be more important.
fwiw
 
A exerpt about food allergies and breast feeding....from nutramed.com/children/infant.htm
Food Allergy & Breast Feeding One problem with mother's milk is that it may contain allergens which the mother has absorbed intact. Allergens derived from cow's milk may appear in the mother's milk and sensitize her child. The circuit of milk proteins through a mother's body, through the breast into the milk, into the infant's GIT, and into the infant's body is a remarkable biological fact! This free passage of food proteins through many body filters and defense systems demonstrates how porous we are to macromolecules.

Since food allergens from the mother's diet may appear in her breast milk, the lactating mother may have to modify her diet to protect her infant. Her restrictions may include the avoidance of milk products and other highly allergenic foods like eggs, peanuts, citrus fruits, chocolate, nuts, and, sometimes, cereal grains, certain meats, and fish. Breast-feeding mothers should avoid ingesting food and beverages with drug-like or toxic properties - alcoholic beverages, tea, coffee, chocolate, herbs, and spices. Breast-feeding and smoking do not go together. Infant sensitization in utero and with breast feeding is not a simple matter, however, and even the most conscientious maternal avoidances will not assure complete protection against infant food allergy.

The effects of food antigens on an infant reflect a delicate and complex balance between tolerance and sensitivity. There are some apparent paradoxes involved. The infant who is fed large quantities of cow's milk will show tolerance to the acute effects of milk allergy - vomiting, abdominal pain, swelling, and shock - but, will manifest the more delayed results like eczema, colds, and diarrhea. The infant with little exposure will show less tolerance to the allergen and will react with the more dramatic acute responses, but may avoid the chronic delayed symptoms. Thus, the breast fed infant of a very careful mother has a greater risk of acute responses when allergenic foods are introduced than the casually fed infant with chronic symptoms. This is a distressing paradox, not confined to the infant immunological response, but observed in older children and adults as well.

Dr. John Gerrard, an authority on food allergy, reported this effect in his study of 19 children with IgE-mediated immediate reactions (IMD.E1) to milk, peanut, and/or egg. He stated: "Breast feedings recommended because it provides optimal nutrition for most babies and, with placentally transferred antibody, protects the infant from a number of common infections: it also facilitates bonding between the mother and child. Breast feeding has also been said to protect the infant from the development of atopic diseases in general and eczema in particular. The degree of protection is not complete, for atopic diseases can develop in breast fed babies to foods ingested by the mother. It has been suggested that restricting the mother's intake of foods, such as cow's milk and egg will increase this protection; whereas increasing her intake of these and other foods will reduce this protection."

Dr. Gerrard's observations showed that the amount of a food eaten by the mother during pregnancy does not determine the sensitization of the infant - that acute allergic responses often occurred with the first ingestion of a food. If the mother is to significantly reduce food allergy in her infant, it appears that she must follow a rather vigorous hypoallergenic diet during her pregnancy and lactation. Half measures may reduce the infant risk, but do not eliminate it. If either of the parents have a history of infant food intolerances, vomiting, diarrhea, eczema, bronchitis, or asthma, the mother may consider it advisable to abstain from all dairy products, eggs, peanuts, and soya protein in an effort to minimize these potential problems in her infant.

In reference to the section I bolded, perhaps one sinister effect of prolonged breastfeeding is the manifestation of more serious, chronic diseases down the road due to the prolonged exposure to toxic residues in breastmilk. This is increased when the mother follows the "standard american diet" or is exposed to a wide variety of environmental toxins. Maybe an infant breastfed for a shorter period of time would not build up the tolerance, and hence the chronic diseases occurring later in life, to the breastmilk toxins. Babies breastfed short term would exhibit dramatic acute responses to food allergens which would -- or should -- prompt parents to remove the irritant from the diet.

So it seems important for mothers to be very careful about diet when breastfeeding. But how many truly are?

I've also read one newspaper article saying that longterm breastfeeding could be more about the mother's well-being than the child's. But I haven't found much more about that.
 
Helle said:
Very interesting, and abit disturbing also for me personally. I breastfed 3 children, and they all had problem with my milk.[..]
I have no doubt, that I've been loaded with toxins since I never detoxed at all until after I had my babies.

or, they could have been allergic to something you were eating. I think that happens often enough. A friend had to go on a strict diet (first elimination diet, and then no corn, no soy, no cruciferous vegetables) to continue breastfeeding her daughter who was extremely colicky and had other digestion problems. The other option the doctors have given her were to transfer her onto the hypo-allergenic formula. She was able to solve the issue by figuring out the allergens and following the diet. The other friend's baby had intestinal blockage and even needed surgery. Turned out, she was allergic to some components of breast milk itself, which is very rare. She did well on a hypo-allergenic formula.

So it seems important for mothers to be very careful about diet when breastfeeding. But how many truly are?

I agree, it's not so simple as to say, "breast is best".
 
Some of these developing parenting practices seem to me to be designed to encourage narcissism on the part of the child and to not "bring up" the child, but rather let him pull the parent down to his level more or less permanently.

I am a strong advocate of the first two years, total attention care, never let the child cry if you can help it, anticipate the child's needs and be ready to meet them instantly, holding, rocking, singing, slings, etc. But when the baby is asleep, s/he should go in his/her own bed. I kept my babies' beds in my room until they were 2.5 or 3.

But then, year two going toward three, when the child indicates their readiness and need to establish their identity, (the terrible twos) that must be dealt with very carefully by balancing the same sort of care for the first two years with incremental challenges to the child's "authority" over his/her environment. That is, this is where the child begins to learn that he is not the center of the universe and that other people have needs and feelings too. But this must be done slowly and gently and with a lot of love over the next couple of years. This is when the baby starts sleeping in their own room. That is normal and natural.

I also think that the human maturation process - from birth to "adult" is a lot longer, like lasting until they are in their 20s in some cases and the parent needs to be endlessly patient while, at the same time, setting limits that are age/intellect suitable, and finding ways to establish them.

I've observed quite a few people doing the whole "co-sleeping" and "extended nursing" thing and frankly, the kids I've seen raised this way are little hedonists. It frightens me to think of them as adults.
 
Laura said:
Some of these developing parenting practices seem to me to be designed to encourage narcissism on the part of the child and to not "bring up" the child, but rather let him pull the parent down to his level more or less permanently.

On a related note, here's that newspaper article: timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/features/article388487.ece

IN AN extraordinary story, Rosie Stamp, a 32-year-old video producer, this week told how she flew home 3,500 miles to breast-feed her one-year-old who was refusing to take the bottled breast milk she had left behind. It’s not her decision to cut short her trip that some may find odd, but the age of her daughter.
If one report is to be believed, however, there are apparently thousands of extended breast-feeders (ie, those who breast-feed their children beyond the age of 12 months) in the UK, some of whom feed their children even until school age.

The question we must ask is whether extended breast-feeding is more about the mother than it is the needs of the child. Certainly, in physical terms, once a child is eating an ordinary, varied diet (ie, well after weaning on to first solid foods), they don’t need their mother’s milk. While it’s been argued that prolonged breast-feeding boosts immunity, the immune system is extremely complex, and it’s difficult to say scientifically that any one thing categorically improves it.

Psychologically, there is little evidence to support long-term breast-feeding. In the first couple of months it is important to the bonding relationship, but you can still have this with mothers who can’t breast-feed. It is not exclusive to breast-feeding. It’s very easy to become a martyr to breast-feeding — and it’s not necessary to do this to yourself.

Children bond with their mothers in a multitude of ways: often when the mother is not aware of it, but is simply meeting the child’s needs. One of my own early memories is of being ill with measles as a small child, and my mother bringing in a jug of lukewarm water to give me a bed bath. It was a rare kindness and I remember lying there, loving her the most I ever had. But as far as she was concerned she was giving me a wash.

Over the years so many mothers have talked to me about not being the perfect mother, and I always quote a friend of mine: a mother’s place is in the role. In other words, if you are the perfect mother to your children, always anticipating their needs and meeting these perfectly, they never grow up — there’s no incentive for them to change. It’s because the mother isn’t perfect that the child evolves and grows to meet his own needs.

It’s essential that the mother’s relationship with her child changes in this way. When you bring up children, you want to look forward to a future when your 40-year-old son is not living in the spare room, with you still doing his washing: the only way you can go from being mother and baby to two adults on the same footing is to let your child go.

For a lot of women it is a great relief when their children don’t need constant looking after — at last they can get back to work, or just go to the loo by themselves — but other mothers feel so empty that they can’t tolerate their own loneliness, and perhaps their partner is unable to meet their needs, that they see their baby as a kind of extension of their childhood dolls, and they can’t let their children grow.

According to Jean Piaget, the pioneer of child development, until the age of 7 or 8, children don’t have any understanding that other people have thoughts and see things differently. But Professor Judy Dunn, from the Institute of Psychiatry at King’s College London, has shown that children as young as 18 months can be keenly and accurately aware of what their siblings and parents feel.

They are able to pick up on whether their mother is upset, and will try to make her better. And if the mother shows that breast-feeding is important to her then the child, who may not want to breast-feed but doesn’t want to hurt his mother, does what she wants. Using their children’s sympathy is something many mothers do — one of the more blatant ways is to say: “If you don’t do this, Mummy will be really upset.”

Then there’s this question of being a “good” child — children learn from their mothers that “good” is how the mother (and father) defines it: and if that is to breast-feed, then the child will acquiesce. Not to do so would be to invite punishment.

But this has implications for a child’s independence in the long term. Learning to look after yourself — which includes, from a young age, feeding yourself — is about learning to rely on yourself, and making your own decisions. A child who is breast-fed for too long may not even know when it is hungry. Children need to start trying to do things for themselves, and they won’t if it is easier to just ask Mummy (you see this extended dependence on their parents even in adults, who have never moved on from being a little girl or boy).

To function in the adult world, you have to feel you are competent and able to look after yourself, and to be able to rely on your own judgment — your mother has to give you the confidence to believe this, and this comes from all those encouragements she offered — “Aren’t you clever?”, “You did that really well” — when you tried things yourself. Lots of mothers love to see that independence, but there are others who don’t believe their children can function without them, and that may include extended breast-feeders.

The more tricky question about extended breast-feeding is what is appropriate in physical terms. All parents have to start thinking quite early about what kind of physical closeness they have with their children — what is “inappropriate” is very difficult to define; it can only be defined from a child’s point of view as anything that makes the child feel disturbed and uncomfortable, or intrudes on their privacy.

Of course breast-feeding is to be encouraged because it does confer long-term health benefits. But breastfeeding in the long term may not be best for the child.
 
Laura said:
Some of these developing parenting practices seem to me to be designed to encourage narcissism on the part of the child and to not "bring up" the child, but rather let him pull the parent down to his level more or less permanently.

yes, I am seeing some of that too in the community. Some subtle things, when attachment\aware parenting practices are taken too far and skewed and a sort of a line is crossed. Then you see people who tend to view their children as their guides and teachers as to what the parenting should be like. And they like to quote some pop-economic theory stuff in support of that, like "any restricted resource is perceived as more valuable, therefore we can't have any TV restrictions, and the child will naturally self-regulate to learn exactly how much to watch, because her unspoiled nature will be true to what's good for her". Or, they think that "learning happens every time, no matter what the child does" and that every activity the child chooses to do therefore should be supported and shared. I wonder too sometimes what those children will be like when they grow up.
 
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