The Real World > Religion
What is God Generically & Actually...
Rob:
--- Quote ---There is morality and there is conscience. Morality is subjective but conscience is objective
--- End quote ---
I dont see how conscience is objective. I would assume an 'objective' observation must be definable, ie have physical boundaries, & be proveable. Morality & conscience seem to be personal opinions or preferences & thus no different to ART. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is anything that is not physically or mathematically definable such as conscience. Conscience is simply the mind letting you know that something you believe in is being transgressed.
Basically if its not physical it then its not real, just a personal preference.
--- Quote ---At our level of existence, discernment and choice seem to be the main lessons (rather than finding proof) and these are related to a combined function of the emotion and intellect.
--- End quote ---
I dont think there r any 'lessons' to be learnt if we r indeed god. God already knows everything. Lessons r a biological goal only. Of course, we need to learn to function in society etc but we do not need to learn to evolve toward god. That is a new age / religious concept again based on biological based logic. If god wanted humans to be 'perfect' or "wise' or something along those lines he has but to wish it so. the only thing i can think of that god wants, or more accurately does, is exist, in all its guises, thats all.
However, maybe god may wish to 'play' or forget that it is 'alone' by creating physical universes & the laws of physics to run perpetually & then forget that it is god by 'emersing' itself in the universes... Of course fear & loneliness r biological based concepts that would not apply to teh supreme being.. so the cause may not be lonliness but something else...
Emotional pain is a concept, & while physical pain has a more.. physical.. aspect to it, but it is nontheless a concept as well... caused by an electrical impulse reaction to external stimulii which the brain interpets as pain & is not therefore in reality 'pain' but simply a biological code that helps biological beings to avoid death from unnoticed physical harm. Pain in any form does not exist other than as a concept like art. If it existed you would not be able to turn it off or make it unexist.
A basic law of physics is that what exists today always has existed & alwys will, & visa versa what does not exist today never has or will.
PS These r just my opinions. :halo:
obyvatel:
--- Quote from: Rob on March 22, 2010, 08:48:54 AM ---
Basically if its not physical it then its not real, just a personal preference.
--- End quote ---
This preference is at variance with the general consensus understanding of this forum.
--- Quote from: Rob ---I dont think there r any 'lessons' to be learnt if we r indeed god.
--- End quote ---
This idea that we are God has been contradicted twice already - but you seem unable to consider this. Is your cup full?
If you believe that there is nothing to learn then why are you here? The purpose of this forum is to network and learn.
--- Quote from: Rob ---
Emotional pain is a concept, & while physical pain has a more.. physical.. aspect to it, but it is nontheless a concept as well... caused by an electrical impulse reaction to external stimulii which the brain interpets as pain & is not therefore in reality 'pain' but simply a biological code that helps biological beings to avoid death from unnoticed physical harm. Pain in any form does not exist other than as a concept like art. If it existed you would not be able to turn it off or make it unexist.
--- End quote ---
Have you ever felt anything that could be classified as emotional pain?
--- Quote from: Rob ---PS These r just my opinions. :halo:
--- End quote ---
This thread might be of interest regarding opinions
Tigersoap:
Hi Rob,
Maybe you should watch this : Critical thinking
T.C.:
Hi Rob
--- Quote ---1) the truth sets us free, so i seek the truth no matter how inconvenient the answer
--- End quote ---
Okay, with that in mind, what is your aim with regards to sharing your opinions?
--- Quote ---2) in the end nothing really matters since we r altogether god
--- End quote ---
Okay, with that in mind, what is your aim with regards to sharing your opinions?
Ana:
--- Quote from: Rob ---I dont see how conscience is objective. I would assume an 'objective' observation must be definable, ie have physical boundaries, & be proveable. Morality & conscience seem to be personal opinions or preferences & thus no different to ART. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is anything that is not physically or mathematically definable such as conscience. Conscience is simply the mind letting you know that something you believe in is being transgressed.
--- End quote ---
Morality and conscience are not the same, in fact they are rather opposites.
Maybe this can help you to start to differenciate and give each word its real meaning.
--- Quote from: ISOTM ---Conscience' is again a term that needs explanation.
In ordinary life the concept 'conscience' is taken too simply. As if we had a conscience. Actually the concept 'conscience' in the sphere of the emotions is equivalent to the concept 'consciousness' in the sphere of the intellect. And as we have no consciousness we have no conscience.
Consciousness is a state in which a man knows all at once everything that he in general knows and in which he can see how little he does know and how many contradictions there are in what he knows.
Conscience is a state in which a man feels all at once everything that he in general feels, or can feel. And as everyone has within him thousands of contradictory feelings which vary from a deeply hidden realization of his own nothingness and fears of all kinds to the most stupid kind of self-conceit, self-confidence, self-satisfaction, and self-praise, to feel all this together would not only be painful but literally unbearable.
"If a man whose entire inner world is composed of contradictions were suddenly to feel all these contradictions simultaneously within himself, if he were to feel all at once that he loves everything he hates and hates everything he loves; that he lies when he tells the truth and that he tells the truth when he lies; and if he could feel the shame and horror of it all, this would be the state which is called 'conscience. A man cannot live in this state; he must either destroy contradictions or destroy conscience. He cannot destroy conscience, but if he cannot destroy it he can put it to sleep, that is, he can separate by impenetrable barriers one feeling of self from another, never see them together, never feel their incompatibility, the absurdity of one existing alongside another.
"But fortunately for man, that is, for his peace and for his sleep, this state of conscience is very rare. From early childhood 'buffers' begin to grow and strengthen in him, taking from him the possibility of seeing his inner contradictions and therefore, for him, there is no danger whatever of a sudden awakening. Awakening is possible only for those who seek it and want it, for those who are ready to struggle with themselves and work on themselves for a very long time and very persistently in order to attain it. For this it is necessary to destroy 'buffers,' that is, to go out to meet all those inner sufferings which are connected with the sensations of contradictions. Moreover the destruction of 'buffers' in itself requires very long work and a man must agree to this work realizing that the result of his work will be every possible discomfort and suffering from the awakening of his conscience.
"But conscience is the fire which alone can fuse all the powders in the glass retort which was mentioned before and create the unity which a man lacks in that state in which he begins to study himself.
"The concept 'conscience' has nothing in common with the concept 'morality.'
"Conscience is a general and a permanent phenomenon. Conscience is the same for all men and conscience is possible only in the absence of 'buffers.' From the point of view of understanding the different categories of man we may say that there exists the conscience of a man in whom there are no contradictions. This conscience is not suffering; on the contrary it is joy of a totally new character which we are unable to understand. But even a momentary awakening of conscience in a man who has thousands of different I's is bound to involve suffering. And if these moments of conscience become longer and if a man does not fear them but on the contrary cooperates with them and tries to keep and prolong them, an element of very subtle joy, a foretaste of the future 'clear consciousness' will gradually enter into these moments.
"There is nothing general in the concept of 'morality.' Morality consists of buffers. There is no general morality. What is moral in China is immoral in Europe and what is moral in Europe is immoral in China. What is moral in Petersburg is immoral in the Caucasus. And what is moral in the Caucasus is immoral in Petersburg. What is moral in one class of society is immoral in another and vice versa. Morality is always and everywhere an artificial phenomenon. It consists of various 'taboos,' that is, restrictions, and various demands, sometimes sensible in their basis and sometimes having lost all meaning or never even having had any meaning, and having been created on a false basis, on a soil of superstition and false fears.
"Morality consists of 'buffers.' And since 'buffers' are of various kinds, and as the conditions of life in different countries and in different ages or among different classes of society vary considerably, so the morality created by them is also very dissimilar and contradictory. A morality common to all does not exist.
"Many people say that they do not understand the moral side of your teaching," said one of us. "And others say that your teaching has no morality at all."
"Of course not," said G. "People are very fond of talking about morality. But morality is merely self-suggestion. What is necessary is conscience. We do not teach morality. We teach how to find conscience.
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