Cassiopaean Sandbox > Music

432 Hz vs 440Hz

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WIN 52:
I have read a discussion about frequencies of music, and found something interesting.

Apparently Hitler played music using 440Hz which was also a change made by the Roman Church around the time they interpreted the Bible. Before that 432Hz was the tone used, going way back in history. There is the fact that 440Hz does not work properly in music, but 432Hz allows music to flow.

I did a quick u-tube search and found some examples of both frequencies using the same music. The results are amassing.

The ancient "bullroarer", a common artifact found worldwide, used by the ancients for what?

Music & Spinning? I am at work, so this is all I can put up, for now, but a quick google search and/or u-tube will give readers something to listen to and hear what I am talking about. This is something I seem very familiar with.

Jonathan:
I've been reading about this as well, but can't come to any conclusions about who exactly changed the standard tuning from A432 to A440.  Some say Bach, some Goebbels, it goes all over the place...

Two interesting bits I found said Verdi's music was composed and originally played at A432, and that the original Stradivarius violins were designed to be tuned to A432.

Also 432 squared is 186,624, which comes close to Einstein's figure for the speed of light - 186,282 miles per second.

Aaand, if you plot the Pythagorean tuning for the C-Major scale on a 360 degree wheel, the wheel is based on 16 divisions, and if you set middle C as 256Hz (A432 tuning), you get 16 sections of 16Hz in the wheel.

One thing that caught my eye was when I calculated the hertz frequencies for the C-Major scale in 432.  I posted this on my facebook as well, but here it is... I find it fascinating that the cycles per second work out to whole numbers with A432 and NOT with A440.  Seems to make sense that this tuning would "feel better" to the human ear.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Modern Standard Tuning (A = 440 hz, C = 261.63 hz)
Sources: http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html and http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-notenames.htm

Note   Frequency (hz)

- Mid Low (1 octave below middle C)

C   130.81
D   146.83
E   164.81
F   174.61
G   196
A   220
B   246.94

- Mid (middle C)

C   261.63
D   293.66
E   329.63
F   349.23
G   392
A   440
B   493.88

- Mid High (1 octave above middle C)

C   523.25
D   587.33
E   659.26
F   698.46
G   783.99
A   880.00
B   987.77

- - - - - - -

Stradivari/Verdi Tuning (A = 432 hz, C = 256 hz)
Calculated using the Pythagorean method of 3:2 ratio for dominants, 11:8 for sub-dominants, 2:1 for octaves.

Note   Frequency (hz)

- Mid Low (1 octave below middle C)

C   128
D   144
E   162
F   176
G   192
A   216
B   243

- Mid (middle C)

C   256
D   288
E   324
F   352
G   384
A   432
B   486

- Mid High (1 octave above middle C)

C   512
D   576
E   648
F   704
G   768
A   864
B   972

- - - - - - - - - - -

edit: WIN32, did you post this originally in baked noodles?  it doesn't seem that baked to me...

Away With The Fairys:
WIN 52 wrote,
I did a quick u-tube search and found some examples of both frequencies using the same music. The results are amassing.

Hi
Do you have a link to the examples., would like to hear , compare.

Thanks

Saša:

--- Quote from: JonnyRadar on March 24, 2010, 05:58:14 PM ---...
Aaand, if you plot the Pythagorean tuning for the C-Major scale on a 360 degree wheel, the wheel is based on 16 divisions, and if you set middle C as 256Hz (A432 tuning), you get 16 sections of 16Hz in the wheel.

One thing that caught my eye was when I calculated the hertz frequencies for the C-Major scale in 432.  I posted this on my facebook as well, but here it is... I find it fascinating that the cycles per second work out to whole numbers with A432 and NOT with A440.  Seems to make sense that this tuning would "feel better" to the human ear.
...

--- End quote ---

Thing that immediately caught my attention is the frequency of C notes in Stradivari tuning...
I find it quite interesting that the C's frequencies are multiples of 2; i.e. 128=27 256=28, 512=29...
No surprise that, in addition to the integer frequencies, Stradivari tuning 'sounds' better...

And also, although this could be simply coincidence from playing with numbers, i.e. construction of tuning  :whistle:

--- Quote from: JonnyRadar on March 24, 2010, 05:58:14 PM ---...
Calculated using the Pythagorean method of 3:2 ratio for dominants, 11:8 for sub-dominants, 2:1 for octaves.
...

--- End quote ---

Dmid low -> 144=122
Emid -> 324=182
Dmid high -> 576=242

- Mid Low (1 octave below middle C)

C   128   = 27
D   144   = 24×32
E   162   = 2×34
F   176   = 11×24
G   192   = 26×3
A   216   = 23×33
B   243   = 35

for higher octaves you just double your numbers...

--- Quote from: Away With The Fairys on March 24, 2010, 06:36:05 PM ---WIN 52 wrote,
I did a quick u-tube search and found some examples of both frequencies using the same music. The results are amassing.

Hi
Do you have a link to the examples., would like to hear , compare.

Thanks

--- End quote ---

Me too...

mkrnhr:
Maybe I'm missing something but I guess it would make sense if the Hz or second unity is related to some intrinsic natural phenomenon, no?

Edit :
I mean all I can find about the definition of the second (or Herz by the same occasion) is from wikipedia :

--- Quote from: Wikipedia ---The second (SI symbol: s), sometimes abbreviated sec., is the name of a unit of time, and is the International System of Units (SI) base unit of time. It may be measured using a clock.

Early definitions of the second were based on the motion of the earth: 24 hours in a day meant that the second could be defined as 1⁄86  400 of the average time required for the earth to complete one rotation about its axis. However, nineteenth- and twentieth-century astronomical observations revealed that this average time is lengthening, and thus the motion of the earth is no longer considered a suitable standard for definition. With the advent of atomic clocks, it became feasible to define the second based on fundamental properties of nature. Since 1967, the second has been defined to be

the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.
--- End quote ---