opiate withdrawal

[davey72]

i have been visiting this site for quite some time now,and it has resonated with me right from the very beginning.this is my first post(as reply,as i havent figured out yet how to do my own.)i cant seem to find out much from the site about opiate addiction,and withdrawal.would anyone know of anything that pertains to cassiopaea?i have been trying for years now,and its really hard.i think im in the right frame of mind to finally do it,but there has gotta be an easier way.k,well,probably not,but any advice i can get would be greatly appreciated.ty,dave.

[Buddy]

i have been visiting this site for quite some time now,and it has resonated with me right from the very beginning.this is my first post(as reply,as i havent figured out yet how to do my own.)i cant seem to find out much from the site about opiate addiction,and withdrawal.would anyone know of anything that pertains to cassiopaea?i have been trying for years now,and its really hard.i think im in the right frame of mind to finally do it,but there has gotta be an easier way.k,well,probably not,but any advice i can get would be greatly appreciated.ty,dave.

Hi davey72. Welcome to the forum! 

My understanding is that we are not equipped to deal with addictions of this type here. Which may explain why there are scarce resources on the forum.

I would personally recommend some kind of supervised therapy where a person would slowly be weaned from a need of these kinds of chemicals. Others may have more helpful input, though.

[davey72]

yes.it has been a long road for me,so i know pretty much all that is out there and available to me,so i really appreciate the reply,but i was looking more so for something the cassiopaeans themselves might recommend.i realize its probably too much to ask,which is why i chose the forum.thanks for replying.

[Laura]

I'll ask the Cs.  I think it is a worthy question.  Get acquainted on the forum and I'll get back with this in a few days.

[ScottD]

Working within a substance facility I would definitely be interested in what answers comes out of this.  I've always found it odd that detox treatment is always countered with more drugs, only "legal" ones, especially concerning methodone which is just as addictive as heroin. 

Of course, the system thrives on people staying addicted.

[RyanX]

Just as a disclaimer, I have no experience dealing with substance abuse, so this is just idol opinion:  

At AA meetings, isn't the basic idea that one has to take full responsibility for one's actions and and the effects they've had on others?  If one is still under the spell that the alcohol or the _______ decides one's actions, then there is no acknowledgment of responsibility, which implies that one has no control over the addiction itself.  

Martha Stout says in the Myth of Sanity that those who recovered from DID by and large were patients who took responsibility for their actions, even those made outside of the awareness of their own personality.  Maybe there is a parallel here between DID and other substance abuse addictions?

FWIW.  

[anart]

Just as a disclaimer, I have no experience dealing with substance abuse, so this is just idol opinion:  

At AA meetings, isn't the basic idea that one has to take full responsibility for one's actions and and the effects they've had on others?  If one is still under the spell that the alcohol or the _______ decides one's actions, then there is no acknowledgment of responsibility, which implies that one has no control over the addiction itself.  

Martha Stout says in the Myth of Sanity that those who recovered from DID by and large were patients who took responsibility for their actions, even those made outside of the awareness of their own personality.  Maybe there is a parallel here between DID and other substance abuse addictions?

FWIW.  

Hi RyanX, it's my understanding that DID and substance abuse are two very different things.  It's also my understanding that one doesn't recover from DID, though there are increasing levels of functionality.

I'm also quite interested in what the C's have to say about this.

[RyanX]

Just as a disclaimer, I have no experience dealing with substance abuse, so this is just idol opinion:  

At AA meetings, isn't the basic idea that one has to take full responsibility for one's actions and and the effects they've had on others?  If one is still under the spell that the alcohol or the _______ decides one's actions, then there is no acknowledgment of responsibility, which implies that one has no control over the addiction itself.  

Martha Stout says in the Myth of Sanity that those who recovered from DID by and large were patients who took responsibility for their actions, even those made outside of the awareness of their own personality.  Maybe there is a parallel here between DID and other substance abuse addictions?

FWIW.  

Hi RyanX, it's my understanding that DID and substance abuse are two very different things.  It's also my understanding that one doesn't recover from DID, though there are increasing levels of functionality.

I'm also quite interested in what the C's have to say about this.

Yes, that is correct Anart, one doesn't recover from DID.  It's been awhile since I read Myth of Sanity, but I recall Martha Stout describing how some patients were able to better deal with this disorder after taking responsibility for their condition; my memory could have betrayed me though.  Whether this is the case with substance abuse or not I don't know, it just struck me that AA groups were essentially trying to do the same thing, that is, encourage one to take responsibility for one's condition and behavior.  They could just be apples and oranges though, even though the concepts are similar.

I'll be very interested in what the C's have to say about this as well.

[Alana]

Working within a substance facility I would definitely be interested in what answers comes out of this.  I've always found it odd that detox treatment is always countered with more drugs, only "legal" ones, especially concerning methodone which is just as addictive as heroin. 

I worked with addictions myself, and it just made me so angry that big farma would get richer on people's suffering (and their families) on this issue too. And not many of the professionals i worked with (psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, etc) were willing to look into alternatives. It was easier for them this way i suppose. Same with mental illness: medication is the number one treatment and all other types of therapy are offered sometimes because the centers are required to offer them. In any event, i am too looking forward to see what the C's answer would be.

Of course, the system thrives on people staying addicted.

A reason more to find a way that truly helps anyone battling with opiate addiction in a healthy way. Thank you for asking your question, davey72   

[Buddy]

Of course, the system thrives on people staying addicted.

A reason more to find a way that truly helps anyone battling with opiate addiction in a healthy way. Thank you for asking your question, davey72   

I'm very glad to see this! I second Alana with the thanks for asking the question! 

[Stevie jj]

Hi Davey72,

     i have been dealing with an addiction to alcohol and i am getting my support from AA (Alcoholics Anonymous).
Your mite wanta to go to NA (Narcotics Anonymous). to get your support.

For me, i dont know much about physical withdrawl, i tried some crazy drugs back in college,
  and having to go to the seedy side of town and hunt down some dealer who did have or did know some one who had,etc,; that was way too much work- and way too scary.

it was alot eazier to buy some alcohol. but my withdrawls are mental and emotional. so i gotta go to a meeting and tell them the truth about whats going on with me.

i get into trouble when 'i' think "i can do" with-out the support groups.

theres that saying that comes to mind 'i take 2 steps forward and 3 steps back'.

well for me i take 2 steps forward and slide down a whole flight of stairs! and then - i take 3 steps back! 

there are a few books on recommended reading that deal with health and diet on the forum, that can help with addiction issues.

But i would do like Bud recommended, find a therapist, and local NA meeting, with our kinda problems, we need the help and support of people who like us, have been there and done that.

thanx

[go2]

Mr. Gurdjieff in Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson mentions that alcoholism is the attempt to drown one's conscience. This strikes a chord with me. I have never accepted the disease concept of alcoholism within the medical model. A "spiritual aim" removed the desire to drink to oblivion. Perhaps it would be the same for opiate addiction.
Davey72, since you are attracted by the search for truth on the Cassiopaea Forum, I encourage you to continue with a "spiritual solution" for the opiate addiction.

Working within a substance facility I would definitely be interested in what answers comes out of this.  I've always found it odd that detox treatment is always countered with more drugs, only "legal" ones, especially concerning methodone which is just as addictive as heroin.  

Yes, it is my opinion that prescribing mind altering drugs to treat addiction is criminal malpractice. This is the result of the disease concept of addiction used by the medical industry to turn addicts into a profit center. I work with alcoholics within the Twelve Step format, however I do not work with alcoholics who come searching for a "spiritual solution" with prescription in hand.

Scot, you may be interested in reading Alcoholics Anonymous and the Disease Concept of Alcoholism by Ernst Kurtz. Many addicts use the disease concept to avoid becoming responsible adults. The contradiction between the medical disease concept and drinking to drown one's conscience is the root of the problem of people coming from the treatment center with a Big Book in one hand and a prescription in the other. Part of the addicts return to sanity is developing the correct use of the centers in the Fourth Way language. My experience with alcoholics is the the pharmaceutical drugs short circuit the emotional center. Emotional sobriety is a large part of the solution to the remorse of conscience.

Hi Laura, Thanks for taking the time to consult the C's on this question. I wait for their perspective on the vexing problem of addiction.

[davey72]

wow.i dont even know what to say.thank you all,especially laura.i dont know why, but i didnt think you would have been this accessible;and to scot,i am on methadone,and it is way harder(as im sure you know)to withdraw from than any natural opiate.with an extremely long half life,it seeps into yer bones the longer you use.not unlike toxins like fluoride im sure.i knew a guy that went to jail,and he said he was still sick six months later.i will keep responding,as i only read the first few replies.i was soo moved,cause i have never had so much attention focused on any me that i had to respond.thanks again.i will update my profile.

[go2]

Hi Davey, I want to add to my previous comment considering you are still addicted to methadone. It is my opinion that detoxing from methadone is a proper realm for medical professionals. Narcotics Anonymous offers support, however they suggest "cold turkey" in conjunction with their "spiritual solution". There are medical side effects from the abuse of any substance and the detoxification is a medical issue.

I wanted to clarify my post above by stating that detox and education offered by medical professionals is necessary in severe cases, however the addiction to any behavior or substance is the symptom of the underlying lack of a spiritual aim and in the longer term, after detox, a "spiritual solution" is indicated for spiritually inclined people.

I wish you well and hope the forum's insight motivates you to begin a quest for the sober life. It begins with willingness and a step at a time. It will take time and there will be suffering, but the other road is to "die like a dog" in Mr Gurdjieff's words. The wish to pay for my existence is a strong motivation for me to continue to Work with the Fourth Way and the Twelve Steps.

 

[davey72]

thanks again.i would also like to add that i have been through all that,and i have quite a wealth of knowledge-medically speaking.i am at a very low dose now,and feel for the first time that if it wasnt for the sickness,i would not be doing anything.the methadone does not get you high.(if you are addicted)if i could afford any treatment at all,i would be at one of these facilities,as they dont offer anything worthwhile that is free.i am really seeking spiritual advice and practical info,at this juncture in my life.hopefully something that i havent come across before,and that is available to me.i mean from every source at my disposal,not just the c's.so,please dont take me wrong,as i do greatly appreciate everything i have read so far.i was quite overwhelmed at first.thanks again.