Humorless

Dorothy Minder

Padawan Learner
According to friends, I've become very "intense." I now have a strength of purpose and engagement with life that apparently unnerves some of my family and close friends, and I've lost much of my sense of humor, at least socially. I still smile and laugh, especially when talking with other seekers, but less so with many people I've known for years. This represents a big change, because people used to consider me a pretty funny guy, and I was known as an entertainer. Now, though, much of that seems frivolous. Dick jokes just don't work for me anymore. ;D

I recognize that to a certain extent I need to relax and enjoy each moment of consciousness. So I'm doing that. I'm playing music, exercising, meditating, and trying to inject some humor back into my social interactions.

My questions for the group are these:

Have any of you become "humorless"?

What do you do to relax?

What do you find funny? Has that changed? If so, how?

Any advice?

Thanks in advance!
 
Dorothy Minder said:
Have any of you become "humorless"?
Not humorless, but less inclined to participate in activities I used to be a part of. On a personal level my sense of humor is intact, but I interact less socially, as I find it demanding and tiresome and of less value than family life and inner life.
Dorothy Minder said:
What do you do to relax?
I read and follow up on my hobbies, mostly making music.
Dorothy Minder said:
What do you find funny? Has that changed? If so, how?
My humor has turned more inward and I can have a good time contemplating some thought or action, or thinking about something in the news. I have little desire to share my thoughts on things with others than my family, and am glad to have this forum in order to have some interaction with people other than my family.
I still meet friends occasionally, but it is a bit of a struggle to motivate myself to partake in the merry activities. They're nice people and lifelong friends, but a lot of the conversation concerns things I don't want to waste energy on. If I talk about my worldview concerning psycopaths running most of the show, we end up in the same old discussion with cemented views and little new insights.
 
Good question to which I'm sure many here can relate.

When I first came across the Cass material I became extremely serious. I mean, the world is on fire and nobody was pulling the fire alarm.

But since I've been working on myself, gaining a greater appreciation for the free will of others and the need to build a strategic enclosure, I've lightened up.

I don't, however, suffer fools lightly, in the sense of surrounding myself with idiots and negative people and I avoid psychic vampires like the plague. So, the circle of friends has gradually evolved.

I remember Casteneda's concepts of controlled folly and stalking and see how they fit in a warrior's tool chest. To maintain a strategic enclosure, one has to master the art of not drawing attention to the very parts of yourself that require protecting and projecting a character that is socially acceptable but neutral (unremarkable) around strangers.

However, when around those who share interest in esoteric matters or concerns of our day to day existence, I do let some fire in my eyes shine and the character I project is closer to my natural self.

Having said that, I am displaying more uncontrolled anger and depression these last few months, for which I am seeking counselling, so I am certain I have become more "intense" around those closest to me (my poor, suffering partner especially). Apparently I am merely at the apprentice stage on the path to self mastery.

It is easy to let the realities and possibilities we learn here get us down. But that is a reaction. If this is our reality, we must strive to change what we can and learn to accept what we can't, moving from reaction to action.

If we remain shocked, angered and saddened by our reality, I can't help but think we are trying to hold onto our previous world view at the same time as the newer awareness, which undoubtedly causes conflict and reaction.

I know there are still parts of me that wishes things were different, that wants to daydream and reminisce over naïve and innocent childhood memories, but that is slowly fading.

I am eternally hopeful that humanity will free itself and return to its former glory. I still see amazing beauty in some people and in creation in general, so perhaps that's what fuels the hopefulness. But, at the same time, I am preparing for the worse.

Oh, regarding uplifting activities, I recently rediscovered board games. I forgot how fun they can be. I have to force myself to play them but once engaged, they can be quite uplifting when all you can see is bleakness. Some card games are exhilarating, especially spoons (_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoons).

A tip I learned a while ago for when I feel too serious around others is to force a smile no matter how unhappy I feel. It seems to send signals to the brain which then appears to adjust brain chemistry. Eventually I start to actually feel happier and the smile becomes natural. Sometimes it takes a little while, but generally it happens within minutes. It's actually quite amazing and I use it a lot at work.

I initially worried about the smile seeming phony, but after looking in the mirror and practicing a few times, it looked pretty natural. Strangers would have no idea it was forced and even those who know me the most assume it is one of my many degrees of smiling.

It's pleasing to see how contagious a smile can be. In a way, such smiling might actually have an uplifting affect on everyone who sees it (notwithstanding broken brains and pathologicals).

Keep smiling,
Gonzo
 
Dorothy Minder said:
According to friends, I've become very "intense." I now have a strength of purpose and engagement with life that apparently unnerves some of my family and close friends, and I've lost much of my sense of humor, at least socially.

What are you doing, that it unnerves some of your family and close friends?

Maybe have a look here:

strategic enclosure

Dorothy Minder said:
Have any of you become "humorless"?

At the very beginning, as I started to read sott some years ago, well at least this is what friends told me, cause I read all that serious stuff and talked also about it.


Dorothy Minder said:
What do you do to relax?

Éiriú Eolas for example. :)

Dorothy Minder said:
What do you find funny? Has that changed? If so, how?

Many things and sometimes myself, when I'm doing mistakes.
 
What do you find funny? Has that changed? If so, how?

I'm not as much a fan of vulgar jokes as I used to be. Although my sense of humour for many other type of jokes is still intact. But I really enjoy sarcastic, or low brow comedic type stuff. Anything that is a joke that can very easily go over a lot of peoples heads is probably the funniest to me ... unless it goes over my head. :rolleyes:

Have any of you become "humorless"?

Sometimes. My humour and seriousness waxes and wanes. All depends how I'm feeling, really.

According to friends, I've become very "intense." I now have a strength of purpose and engagement with life that apparently unnerves some of my family and close friends, and I've lost much of my sense of humor, at least socially. I still smile and laugh, especially when talking with other seekers, but less so with many people I've known for years.

You may be forming or have some rigidity or harshness in your behaviour. I sometimes go through these periods and feel as if I'm too intense. I'm trying to be more gentle of a person though. You should reflect back on what is it that's giving people this impression, and also may ask what specifically is intense about you. Is it all the time, certain situations, etc.
 
Legolas said:
Dorothy Minder said:
According to friends, I've become very "intense." I now have a strength of purpose and engagement with life that apparently unnerves some of my family and close friends, and I've lost much of my sense of humor, at least socially.

What are you doing, that it unnerves some of your family and close friends?

Maybe have a look here:

strategic enclosure

Yes, if you're unnerving people, it sounds like you're not being very externally considerate at all. External Consideration makes life easier for others and for yourself.

If it weren't for my sense of humor, I'd be completely lost. I actually think it's gotten more acute since I've been working on myself, though it was always more a matter of wit than 'jokes'.
 
For my reply, repeat reply numbers 3 and 6 here, followed by a Jerry Clower noise: Haaaooooowwww! :D
 
Dorothy Minder said:
My questions for the group are these:

Have any of you become "humorless"?

What do you do to relax?

What do you find funny? Has that changed? If so, how?

Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

It seems that there is a difference between humor and laughter as social/community/bonding experience that can also be a great opportunity to be externally considered, and personal or inner sense of humor or joy. And sometimes it is too easy to confuse the two and fall into the deadly seriousness of self importance. For example, Dabrowski's levels of laughter that correspond to his five levels of development could describe the progression of personal or inner sense of humor, from crude jokes or jokes that laugh at suffering of others, and to the deep feeling of joy and empathy. Below is a a quote that talks about it. But I think that when you find yourself in company of people that need cheering up or who are not ready for heavy conversations or spiritual humor and just want to have a small talk, it is still possible to keep your personal level of humor and still be engaging and humorous. True wit is creative and adaptable. And regardless of Dabrowski's description and his theory on how laughter or humor should express itself in high level individuals, I am sure that even most dedicated warriors dance a silly chicken dance from time to time! At least they should. :)

The category of multilevelness is the main description pivot for the development depiction of the psychic world36 and is used to capture its hierarchical disposition. While reading Iliad and Odyssey 'a is easy to notice, that the world of feelings is described by the poet in the vertical, hierarchical and multilevel perspective.

An example for this may be laughter and smile. Alas I searched the overall interpretation of laughter and smile in Homer's eposes to no avail, so I cannot refer to it at the moment37. Here is my personal attempt to apply distinction upon levels of laughter, carried out by K. Dąbrowski to the texts of Iliad and Odyssey.

Laughter changes depending on the level it is referring to. And so the laughter of Tersytes' army at its leader, who had been beaten by Odysseus (II, 270: hedu gelassan, Chapman: laught delightsomely, Pope: -, Lang - Leaf - Myers: laughed lightly) I would put on the first level, which is described by Dąbrowski as follows: (...) Laughter is primitive, loud, brutal, physiological. It is frequently evoked by watching someone's misfortune or humiliation (...) Laughter has the character of a collective release of primitive emotions38.

Sardonic laughter of Odysseus after Ctesippus had tried to hit him with a calf leg (ct above) (20, 301-302: medeise de thumo39 / sardanion mala toion, Chapman: A laughter raising most Sardaman, Pope: The chief indignant grins a ghastly smile, Butcher - Lang: smiled right grimly in his heart) may be situated on the second level: Laughter becomes calmer and less coarse. It is more psychological and often subdued.40 (...)41.

Laughter of Hector and Andromache evoked by their son's fright (cf. above) (VI, 471: ek d' egelasse, Chapman: Laughter affected, Pope: With secret pleasure each fond parent smiled, Lang-Leaf-Myers: Then his dear father laughed aloud, and his lady mother) would suit the third level by Dąbrowski: Laughter becomes more differentiated, quiet and subtle. There is a distinct kind of smile which begins to predominate over loud laughter. The smile reveals a history of grave experience and an increasing introvertization. (...) experiences of shame and guilt, concern for responsibility, and desire for reparation in relation to someone who was, or could have been, harmed and hurt (...)42.

Laughter of Hector looking in silence for the last time at his son (VI, 404: meidesen idon es paida siope. Chapman: Hector, though griefe bereft his speech, yet smil'd upon his joy., Pope: Silent the warrior smiled, Lang - Leaf- Myers: So now he smiled and gazed at his boy silently) may again be compared to the fourth level in Dąbrowskian model: Collective laughter disappears; it is replaced by subtle individual laughter and most often by an individual smile which is moral, esthetic, a smile toward the ideal, a smile of mutual understanding in the most subtle things. The past history of suffering and agony can be clearly discerned in such empathic smile.43

Finally the laughter through tears of Andromache (VI, 484: dakruoen gelasasa, Chapman: his mother, whose faire eyes fresh streames of love's salt fire, Pope: She mingled with a smile a tender tear, Lang - Leaf- Myers: smiling tearfully) refers to the highest level: Smile is autonomous and authentic (...) It is a smile of the highest empathy in recognizing and appreciating the existential unrepeatibility of „I" and the unrepeatibility of „Thou". (...) a smile (...) is both existential and transcendental. (...) But it can also be a smile that radiates joy, yet not without the awareness of and compassion for human sorrow.44
 
Humor? My goodness, to loose that would be awful. I feel for you and hope you find your "funny bone" again soon!!

Step outside and watch the birds or go for a walk, you'll find plenty to laugh with.
 
Some of the funniest people I know are involved in the Work. I think you'll find that here, on this forum, we do take an appreciation for a well-developed sense of humor. :)
 
Thank you, all, for the responses.

Keit, I enjoyed the excerpt -- definitely thought provoking. I do think that my sense of humor is evolving. As I mentioned in my first post, I continue to smile and laugh, especially by myself or when engaged with other seekers. I also agree with you "silly chicken dance" comment. Better not to take ourselves too seriously.

Legolas and Anart, I think you are correct that I need to improve my external considering. I have taken that as a point of work. At the same time, I think to a certain extent it is inevitable that the choices I make and the mode of being I seek to embody will unnerve some people, some of the time. For example, I choose not to watch television or go boozing. I choose not to laugh at certain kinds of jokes. Those choices make some people uncomfortable -- like certain old friends who still enjoy TV, booze, and off-color jokes. I don't push my choices on others, but neither will I bend over backwards to accommodate vulgarity. If that sometimes means being "intense" or a spoilsport, so be it.

DanielS, thank you for the reminder to be gentle.

Gonzo, thank you or your thoughtful post. I too enjoy board games. I used to be a tournament chess player, but haven't pushed the pawns for a while. Perhaps I should make time.

Gimpy, your response made me laugh, so thanks for that.

[quote author=Gimpy]Asking me what I find funny is like asking me why the sky is blue. A bit silly. [/quote]

This, however, I disagree with -- though I understand the sentiment. Allow me to use this as a reentry point into the nature of humor. Please understand that the following paragraphs are not aimed at you specifically, but offered to the group for comment.

Along with my earnest request for insight from the group, I was also interested in starting a discussion about humor. I don't think questioning what makes us laugh is idle curiosity at all. In my first post, I tried to indicate that my sense of humor has changed (not disappeared) as a result of self-work, and that people have registered that change. As a younger man, I sometimes laughed at gay jokes or prison rape or another's embarrassment. Now I do not. Even a couple of years ago, I might have laughed at a gay joke not because I found it funny but simply for social cohesion -- to fit in, or to curry favor with a jokester of higher "status."

I think Keit's post was penetrating. There are different levels of humor, and our appreciation of various cosmic surprises really depends on our perspective. In ISOTM, Ouspensky relates Gurdjieff's explanation of laughter as a mechanical release of unnecessary stored energy. Jesus, according to Gurdjieff via Ouspensky, never laughed -- apparently indicating complete mastery of his energy. At the same time, Ouspensky describes how Gurdjieff seemed to play various roles including a boistrous bon vivant, and ISOTM and other works seem to suggest that Gurdjieff laughed and joked fairly often.

I think Gonzo's reference to Don Juan's "controlled folly" and Keit's warning about "deadly seriousness and self-importance" are the key here.

Other thoughts?
 
Gimpy, your response made me laugh, so thanks for that.

It was supposed to. ;D



Quote from: Gimpy
Asking me what I find funny is like asking me why the sky is blue. A bit silly.
This, however, I disagree with -- though I understand the sentiment. Allow me to use this as a reentry point into the nature of humor. Please understand that the following paragraphs are not aimed at you specifically, but offered to the group for comment.

Along with my earnest request for insight from the group, I was also interested in starting a discussion about humor. I don't think questioning what makes us laugh is idle curiosity at all. In my first post, I tried to indicate that my sense of humor has changed (not disappeared) as a result of self-work, and that people have registered that change. As a younger man, I sometimes laughed at gay jokes or prison rape or another's embarrassment. Now I do not. Even a couple of years ago, I might have laughed at a gay joke not because I found it funny but simply for social cohesion -- to fit in, or to curry favor with a jokester of higher "status."

This is good to hear. The majority of what passes for humor in popular culture doesn't even crack a smile on my face, as often its based on ridicule, or making fun of someone's pain. Sharing essential happiness, a smile felt from the heart, is a lot more fun than 'making fun' of something. I've found more joy in a child's open laughter at nothing than I have from any stand up routine, and its that bubbling laughter that I share as much as I can. :dance:
 
Hi Dorothy, I don't really understand when you say " I choose not to laugh to a certain kind of jokes ". Could you clarify please? How can you choose not to laugh ? I mean, do you feel like laughing when earing at some jokes, as stupid as they may sound, and then say "no way" ? And sorry if i misunderstood the concept.
 
Two best friends (neither of whom enjoyed the reputation of being the brightest bulb in the pack) decided to get away from the hustle and bustle of NYC and vacation in Minnesota for some honest to goodness fishing.

After the week was over and only catching three fish, one says to the other:

“You know . . . these fish cost us a thousand dollars each!”

“Well then,” came the reply, “we better not catch any more.”
 

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