"Life Without Bread"

Gertrudes said:

The cramps have increased with my decrease in carbohydrates which also coincided with my increase in fat. I've been trying to figure out what's causing the upset and I sense that the problem is the fat.

Click to expand...

fwiw I had extra fat today and hit my bowel tolerance for it, and lost my appetite. Ended up feeling fatigued.
In the afternoon I realised I hadn't had my salt water (I'm drinking electrolyte powder in water due to the potassium content), this picked me up and within half an hour I was really hungry. I ate the rest of the food I'd prepared (with the extra fat in) with no problem.
So this may be something to consider.

While you should continue to check the Nutritional Facts panel on all processed products, foods that incorporate grains particularly qualify as minefields. In addition to avoiding foods with trans fats and added sugar, watch out for white or "enriched" flour. Baked goods made with whole wheat or other whole grains—look for 100 percent whole grain—tend to be higher in fiber and thus lower in carbs, as well as higher in micronutrients. If white flour is the first item on the ingredients list, followed by whole grain flour, forget about it.

{Ya'll know our position on gluten containing grains; I've just included the above so ya'll see that even these guys are real wary of grains at all.}

Click to expand...

I bought a box of Bisquick (gluten free) awhile ago to have on hand for gluten free biscuits in a hurry.

I never did open the box, but noticed it on the shelf today, so I picked it up to read the ingredient label again to check the carb rate per serving.
Turns out to be 31g per biscuit, but what made my jaw drop was the recommended daily amount of carbs being "300g"..!

While the daily fat intake was recommended at less the 60g.

Thor said:

I haven't read TAASOLCL or LWB yet so the following questions may be answered there. As you have I like to hear your thoughts on the following issues:

From the reading it seems like the authors have an upper limit for fat due to a too high calorie intake. Many other places on the Forum fat is recommended as the more the merrier (and that's how I prefer it to be :P) as this pushes the body towards fat metabolism faster. What do you think is recommendable?

Click to expand...

I think that the point is to have a ratio of fat to protein and the protein needs to be controlled because it can be converted to glucose by the body.

Thor said:

Earlier in the post it is quoted that the necessary number of carbs needed is zero. This implies that we don't need vegetables at all. In TNAFANY (cute acronym) it is stressed several times that you need 12-15 g of carbs a day from foundation vegetables. Which of these two viewpoints do you think should carry the most weight?

Click to expand...

Notice that their position is that you need the fiber for bowel management. They also mention the vitamin content of veggies and say nothing about lectins or anti-nutrients. They don't mention gluten or the negative aspects of dairy. They think diet sodas are okay. They made a token mention of MSG, and then recommend foods that we know contain MSG. So clearly, they aren't writing about those issues which are exposed in other research and books.

The approach they have taken with the New Atkins is rather moderate which is probably the only reason they have not been violently attacked (though the whole concept has been attacked in some quarters). So whether they know about the other issues or simply have decided to choose their battles is hard to say.

What is important about this book is that they do give some very good advice on how to actually DO a carb restricted diet and use it to find out one's own carb sensitivity.

I personally want to take carbs as low as possible and just experiment to see what my own system "likes." I think that once your body has switched over to fat burning that you can have extra fat if you want it without it getting stored, that it is the carbs that trigger the storage system in a lot of people. I've also found that my system works perfectly well with almost no vegetables and some of the other books point out that you get all the vitamins, minerals and amino acids and fatty acids from a correctly balanced meat/fat diet. But everyone has to do a little experimenting with their own systems.

Gertrudes said:

I will be cutting down on fats over the next few days though. Something is definitely messing up with my gut and I think it is my fat intake, whenever I increase it I get either bloated or get cramps. I managed to make my bloating disappear for the most part with Peppermint, Aloe Vera, Oxy Cleanse and Potassium, which has also normalized my bowel frequency, however, I've been getting abdominal cramps daily. This is something I haven't had for more then 2 years, when I stopped gluten and dairy.

Click to expand...

If you use Oxy Cleanse more than once in awhile - like only once every few weeks - you'll get bloating and gas. It's only an emergency measure and should not be taken every day or even once a week.

Gertrudes said:

This has started to affect me at work lately. The cramps have increased with my decrease in carbohydrates which also coincided with my increase in fat. I've been trying to figure out what's causing the upset and I sense that the problem is the fat.
I'll be cutting it down gradually and see how it goes.

Click to expand...

Are you keeping a diary where you record everything you take including food, supplements and things like Oxy Cleanse?

RedFox said:

fwiw I had extra fat today and hit my bowel tolerance for it, and lost my appetite. Ended up feeling fatigued.
In the afternoon I realised I hadn't had my salt water (I'm drinking electrolyte powder in water due to the potassium content), this picked me up and within half an hour I was really hungry. I ate the rest of the food I'd prepared (with the extra fat in) with no problem.
So this may be something to consider.

Click to expand...

For the last several days of making sure to have less than 15g carbs, for some reason don't feel that hungry at all. It's a strange mix of having energy (like for example not being tired after only 5-6 hours of sleep) and a sort of muscle fatigue. But that can also be due to this time of the month.

There is also something else concerning body odor. Don't think that have a bad breath (but who knows, really), but do have a slight garlicy body odor. I say garlicy because there was a period when ate a lot of garlic and it was affecting my body odor, so I am familiar with the smell. This time didn't eat garlic for a while, and yet there is this slight smell especially in the armpits, and even almost immediately after the shower.

Looked on the net and read that it was one of the signs of ketosis, and that it should pass eventually. Well, that's good. Meanwhile, perfume is my friend. ;)

But I do still need to catch up on all the excerpts that were posted here in order to have a better grasp on the issue. Can't buy the books for now, but also don't have much time to really delve into all of them (right now in the middle of The Unspoken Voice), so that's kind of balances itself. Maybe a bit later. Will make sure to catch up on all the info on this thread, though.

Meager1 said:

I bought a box of Bisquick (gluten free) awhile ago to have on hand for gluten free biscuits in a hurry.

I never did open the box, but noticed it on the shelf today, so I picked it up to read the ingredient label again to check the carb rate per serving.
Turns out to be 31g per biscuit, but what made my jaw drop was the recommended daily amount of carbs being "300g"..!

While the daily fat intake was recommended at less the 60g.

Click to expand...

Just a note. Be careful with ''gluten free'' products. Usually they contain rice (which actually contains gluten in small amounts) or corn flour and some other no-no's. Reading the labels is very important! Most of the gluten free products in the store I work has atleast one of these ingredients.

Oxajil said:

Just a note. Be careful with ''gluten free'' products. Usually they contain rice (which actually contains gluten in small amounts) or corn flour and some other no-no's. Reading the labels is very important! Most of the gluten free products in the store I work has atleast one of these ingredients.

Click to expand...

Plus "gluten free" often means "loaded with other carbs."

Just FYI - The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living is now also available on Amazon.de. They'll ship in 1 to 3 weeks.

Laura said:

Gertrudes said:

This has started to affect me at work lately. The cramps have increased with my decrease in carbohydrates which also coincided with my increase in fat. I've been trying to figure out what's causing the upset and I sense that the problem is the fat.
I'll be cutting it down gradually and see how it goes.

Click to expand...

Are you keeping a diary where you record everything you take including food, supplements and things like Oxy Cleanse?

Click to expand...

I thought about continuing something like that too yesterday as I read the excerpts. Good plan.

Keit said:

There is also something else concerning body odor. Don't think that have a bad breath (but who knows, really), but do have a slight garlicy body odor. I say garlicy because there was a period when ate a lot of garlic and it was affecting my body odor, so I am familiar with the smell. This time didn't eat garlic for a while, and yet there is this slight smell especially in the armpits, and even almost immediately after the shower.

Click to expand...

I experienced the same in the last weeks, but due to ketosis it sounds logical that it is connected, bad breath is then also common.

Finduilas495 said:

Just FYI - The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living is now also available on Amazon.de. They'll ship in 1 to 3 weeks.

Click to expand...

Good to know.

RedFox said:

Being at less than 25g of carbs a day was important to finally reaching a good energy level with no fatigue. I think for those struggling to reach a good energy level you need to look closely at the type of carbs you're eating....even if the vegetable is very low in carbs, could it be described as sugary?

Click to expand...

As far as I understand it, it is still gets broken down to carbohydrates, means it adds to the gram list of carbohydrates.

RedFox said:

Being at less than 25g of carbs a day was important to finally reaching a good energy level with no fatigue. I think for those struggling to reach a good energy level you need to look closely at the type of carbs you're eating....even if the vegetable is very low in carbs, could it be described as sugary?

I'm going to have to go look at types of carbs/sugars and see if I can work out if there is any validity in the theory above. It seems that very small amounts (a few grams) of some sugars is enough to stop ketosis.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm having to look at my carbs too after reading/posting all those excerpts. It seems that I may be sabotaging myself with my free use of xylitol. I realized that I'm getting more carbs than I've been counting. No wonder the process has dragged on for so long! I've cut it way down today and feel like heck, but I think if I'm strict, I'll be okay in two or three days.

It seems that I may be sabotaging myself with my free use of xylitol. I realized that I'm getting more carbs than I've been counting.

Click to expand...

Yeah same thing I was doing with the Emergen-C packets.

The xylitol is 4g per teaspoon and I did notice that awhile ago, and switched back to somersweet because it says 1g carbs, on the can.
But I just looked it up online and found this;

Somersweet
total carbs 4
sugar alcohols 2
fiber 2
net carbs 0

So maybe the best thing is just do without sweetener for the time being!

Meager1 said:

It seems that I may be sabotaging myself with my free use of xylitol. I realized that I'm getting more carbs than I've been counting.

Click to expand...

Yeah same thing I was doing with the Emergen-C packets.

The xylitol is 4g per teaspoon and I did notice that awhile ago, and switched back to somersweet because it says 1g carbs, on the can.
But I just looked it up online and found this;

Somersweet
total carbs 4
sugar alcohols 2
fiber 2
net carbs 0

So maybe the best thing is just do without sweetener for the time being!

Click to expand...

For those who can tolerate stevia, according to my bottle, there is no carbs in it.

Laura said:

Oxajil said:

Just a note. Be careful with ''gluten free'' products. Usually they contain rice (which actually contains gluten in small amounts) or corn flour and some other no-no's. Reading the labels is very important! Most of the gluten free products in the store I work has atleast one of these ingredients.

Click to expand...

Plus "gluten free" often means "loaded with other carbs."

Click to expand...

The way I have been thinking about it is more or less to avoid grains and flour. There are other "undesirable" foods, and other plant foods that have high carbs and may need to be restricted, but the grains and flour seem to be the main "natural" food to avoid. It goes without saying that unnatural "industrial food," plant, animal, or chemical, is to be avoided when possible.

Avoiding gluten looks at just one aspect of the problem, for those who are noticeably sensitive to wheat. Limiting carbs doesn't by itself take into account grain toxicity. And yes, there may well be some "good grains," but then the carbs in them quickly become an issue.

I do, of course, take into account various other things besides whether a food is or comes from a grain (with carbs coming second) but it has proven to be a good initial reference point. I no longer think about "gluten free." If you want to avoid and/or recover from the "diseases of civilization," you need to think more broadly than that.

RedFox said:

Gertrudes said:

The cramps have increased with my decrease in carbohydrates which also coincided with my increase in fat. I've been trying to figure out what's causing the upset and I sense that the problem is the fat.

Click to expand...

fwiw I had extra fat today and hit my bowel tolerance for it, and lost my appetite. Ended up feeling fatigued.
In the afternoon I realised I hadn't had my salt water (I'm drinking electrolyte powder in water due to the potassium content), this picked me up and within half an hour I was really hungry. I ate the rest of the food I'd prepared (with the extra fat in) with no problem.
So this may be something to consider.

Click to expand...

Thanks Redfox, good to know.

Laura said:

If you use Oxy Cleanse more than once in awhile - like only once every few weeks - you'll get bloating and gas. It's only an emergency measure and should not be taken every day or even once a week.

Click to expand...

That's good to know, because the bottle advices taking a pill everyday. Although since I started taking it my bloating and gas diminished. When I started taking Aloe Vera, peppermint and potassium it disappeared completely. It happens now more mildly when I get nauseous, and nausea happens when my organism is overwhelmed by too much fat in one go. I suppose I just need to do what you suggest below:

Laura said:

Are you keeping a diary where you record everything you take including food, supplements and things like Oxy Cleanse?

Click to expand...

I should start that shouldn't I?
Regarding the abdominal cramps I sense it is the excess fat, they are always preceded by nausea which happens when I eat more fat. During the nausea period I feel an aversion to fat. I'll ease down on it for a while, I'll keep eating the fatty meats as I don't seem to have any problem with that, but moderating the amount of fat I add on top. I'll also test more carefully each fat type, each meat type, and my tolerance levels to fat intake, besides carb tolerance intake, of course.

Gertrudes said:

I should start that shouldn't I?
Regarding the abdominal cramps I sense it is the excess fat, they are always preceded by nausea which happens when I eat more fat. During the nausea period I feel an aversion to fat. I'll ease down on it for a while, I'll keep eating the fatty meats as I don't seem to have any problem with that, but moderating the amount of fat I add on top. I'll also test more carefully each fat type, each meat type, and my tolerance levels to fat intake, besides carb tolerance intake, of course.

Click to expand...

You're using a digestive enzyme, correct? I couldn't eat what I'm eating without the digestive enzymes (ox bile plus a few other things). When I forget the enzymes, the fat doesn't get digested properly and it's very obvious.