Experiment with the spirit board -lies coming through it & how to recognize them

Psalehesost said:
Dawn said:
Psalehesost said:
At this point I wonder about all the energy going into this thread. What's it all for, at present?

Little new is arrived at; what has been said is basically simply repeating.

What is being fed?

These are individual responces, as a forum/network. They are all valuable because each person offers their own ideas on the situation. If you read it as "sigh, everything is repeating itself" then, yes, it can become repetitive. However if you read it as "this is one person' and 'this is another.' You might gain some insight into how we are each dealing with this new 'thing.'

You may say one thing from one side, and even a word can change the meaning.

Just my opinion of course.

It's just that it seems a lot of energy is going into this - a number of people seeming emotionally involved - often, it seems, expecting to get a message across to those three.

Discussion can also be seen where people learn (and on a closer look has proportionally increased), and this is naturally valuable.

However, where energy is still focused on the present approach to communicating with the three without result, it looks to me much like feeding a black hole.


It is an emotional issue, thus many have emotions about it and with it. Because it involves all of us. I was emotional about thinking these guys would be cast off, and it's clear to me that they need only to explain themselves. It is emotion that gets us all to a place of understanding. Time and time again. Clean emotion, not clouded by self interests.

Sure a message is being sent. It is emotional and physical and spiritual. I personally want them to not be in danger and understand, and correct the issues leading to this mess.

I wish them well and hope that they have not injured themselves.

It's up to them. These are our versions of well wishes as friends and co-Workers, for them. They may or may not wish to ever say another word. But they are encouraged. And I hope they view it as 'on safe grounds' and honestly look at themselves as mirrors, and us as mirrors, that is what we do, and that is a great gift they have been given.

edited for: spelling.
 
dannybananny said:
Too many bad cop good cop television shows in my youth I guess. And as the saying goes... I may be wrong. But I can catch a fly with sugar, not arms flailing. They may deserve curt words. I don't know. But seems to me I feel much anger and of course, for myself, I would be fearful and withdrawl when people are carrying pitchforks and buckets of fire.

I just came off a thread where anart called it "programs on parade". :)
Is this different? How? This is only my observation.

Yes, I tend to agree, to much assumptions in this thread and to little knowledge what really happened and I would want to hear other side of the story, and I wonder if someone did even remember what C's said about assumptions, and the atmosphere is seems to much loaded with emotions and it isn't helping. I think like Peam said that they are covering each other and that's the reason why they used plural, it was obvious that this isn't the hole story! But on the other hand it isn't the time to stay silent because silence can speak by herself, and is it really worth to risk that adventure for all effort you gave in before and your future, this is serious issue. Nobody is going to crucify no one, but being honest can be beneficial for all involved. In the end I don't know what to think anymore because some behavior in those sessions when I took better look is in total contradiction with what I saw, and thought I knew, it hurts.

I have to agree as well. I know that when I was in the spotlight for something I had done it didn't help to have many comments that were said racing through my mind. It didn't help me think clearly. All my little 'I' could think about was to be defensive.

However...
Gertrudes said:
What kinda worries me at the moment is the fact that the three of you (Sasa, Ljubica and Zo) are still together. It would probably be way more beneficial to you guys to go through this moment alone rather then together. Together you are much less likely to take the forum's input individually and objectively, because one of you will tend to feed the others' illusions. Even if just by giving a sense of support in a moment that begs for seeing things clearly, not supporting illusions, despite how painful leaving them may be. If you three got into this together, then surely you, at some point, shared the same illusions, even though you may not see any illusion yet.
I'm just concerned because the fact that you are still together will tend to greatly reinforce whatever lies or illusions you may have fed of, or be feeding of.

It is much easier to believe a lie if there are several of us believing it, each supporting the other's faulty perceptions, and assume an attitude of us, the righteous ones, versus them, the evil attacker ones who don't see what we see. I'm not saying that this is the stance you're taking, but considering that you have been addressing yourselves as "we", instead of "I", please take these words of caution.

Be careful and watchful, you got into this together, and the dynamic of supporting each others' skewed views is likely to be prevailing, particularly when feeling attacked.

This is what I believe your solution is also. This was the key to me finally realizing the scope of what I had done and helped me to think more clearly. If you guys continue to discuss the issue amongst yourselves you'll never 'see' clearly what has transpired here. I think you need time alone to contemplate what exactly each one of your actions was in this and simply come clean with it. And for goodness sake please stay away from that board, it obviously isn't doing you any good.
 
Al Today said:
I just came off a thread where anart called it "programs on parade". :)
Is this different? How? This is only my observation.

Why do you think that it is unnatural to be angry here? Also, could you post a link to this thread, so that we could see the activity that warranted the "programs on parade" comment and compare the two? Thank you.
 
go2 said:
FWIW-I am surprised that some are attracted to the board and adventure with the denizens of other realms. I have enough problems trying to negotiate and understand the lessons of this world. I am grateful that Laura shares her channeling Work, which clearly requires great effort and integrity. Perhaps, the germ of this misadventure into other realms began with Herr Eisenheim's hope to witness a channeling event at the Chateau. The hope expressed, inadvertently planted the seed of thought in less informed or more impatient minds. The seed of suggestion is often planted without intention, as I find, when I think out loud. External consideration of the level of knowledge and being of others has been a slow and painful learning experience for me personally. From my limited understanding, knowledge of the details and the persons involved, it seems this account from Sasa may be close to the truth of the origin of this matter.
I think you are very wrong. As pointed before this was a deflection and I would imagine everyone who visits the chateau (Sasha included ) secretly hopes they might be lucky enough to sit at the session. As Laura said this sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't as it depends on many factors. Everyone with two firing neurons ( Ljubica and Sasha certainly have much more then 2) understands this would be equivalent to guided safe tour to other realms. If you go on a sky dive attached to the instructor with the parachute it is understood this is unique experience which you will never be able to repeat on your own.
I think the seeds for this intention were planted by something else. But at this point we have to hope that the reality of this grave situation has sank for both Sasha and Ljubica, that they have clear their mind and they will find strength to talk to the network sincerely and free of installed influences.
 
Pete said:
I know that when I was in the spotlight for something I had done it didn't help to have many comments that were said racing through my mind. It didn't help me think clearly. All my little 'I' could think about was to be defensive.
Exactly and this is why torch wielding and accusatory posts dont help. Someone said something about feeding the energy into the black hole and this comment seemed very inappropriate. I know these people, I thought they are my friends, who suddenly started behaving like lunatics and it is only natural to try and find out what is at the bottom of this. The network is here to help them with whatever is going on but nothing can be done until all three of them are completely sincere. if they cannot be sincere they cannot be part of this network, and they cannot be my friends anymore, it is as simple as that.
 
I think it is time to wait for Sasa and Ljubica to answer the questions that have been asked.
 
In my opinion, the material presented is an act of auto-eroticism. His sets are a reflection of his desires and their self-importance.

The fact that they have been told they will live to 19 meters shows Laura and crew who wish that were true. Surely many in the forum would like it that way. And indeed irrelevant, but you also insisted on it, and possibly was a gift for your ego to see it happen.

The question "I'm special?" makes clear his egocentricity.

I do not know if that process and have lived or not, but when you realize you're a shit takes away the arrogance of the coup, and if you realize that you are aware that the questions and answers in these sessions are act of mental and emotional masturbation as mentioned. Where is the discernment?

First read, investigate everything possible to find answers to your questions, cleanse impurities at all levels, and then maybe be prepared for this, or may not be needed as the material available is sufficient.
 
One of the ways we evaluate new members on this forum is their willingness to "give when asked" since that is one of the ways we define STO. Now, this is generally a process of just asking questions and observing how able and willing they are to give answers.

So far, a number of questions have been asked of Sasa and Ljubica and answers have either not been forthcoming, or have been obviously twisted, deflected, or outright avoided. That is clearly a sign of STS in operation.

Let me just say that if real answers are not brought forward within the next 24 hours, we can only conclude that Sasa has been co-opted by the forces of STS via Ljubica. Or both of them have been co-opted via some other vector.

The battle is through you, we are waiting to see who will win. But we won't wait forever.
 
Gurdjieff on the topic:

"The struggle against lying in oneself and the struggle against fears is the first positive work which a man begins to do.

"One must realize in general that positive efforts and even sacrifices in the work do not justify or excuse mistakes which may follow. On the contrary, things that could be forgiven in a man who has made no efforts and who has sacrificed nothing will not be forgiven in another who has already made great sacrifices.

"This seems to be unjust, but one must understand the law. There is, as it were, a separate account kept for every man. His efforts and sacrifices are written down on one side of the book and his mistakes and misdeeds on the other side. What is written down on the positive side can never atone for what is written down on the negative side. What is recorded on the negative side can only be wiped out by the truth, that is to say, by an instant and complete confession to himself and to others and above all to the teacher. If a man sees his fault but continues to justify himself, a small offense may destroy the result of whole years of work and effort. In the work, therefore, it is often better to admit one's guilt even when one is not guilty. But this again is a delicate matter and it must not be exaggerated. Otherwise the result will again be lying, and lying prompted by fear."

Only two people dropped off who, exactly as though through some kind of magic as it seemed to us, suddenly ceased to understand anything and saw in everything that G. said misunderstanding on his part, and, on the part of the rest, a lack of, sympathy and feeling.
This attitude, at first mistrustful and suspicious and then openly hostile to almost all of us, coming from nobody knew where and full of strange and quite unexpected accusations, astonished us very much.

"We made everything a secret"; we failed to tell them what G. had spoken of in their absence. We told tales about them to G., trying to make him distrust them. We recounted to him all talks with them, leading him constantly into error by distorting all the facts and striving to present everything in a false light. We had given G. wrong impressions about them, making him see everything far from as it was.

At the same time G. himself had "completely changed," had become altogether different from what he used to be before, had become harsh, requiring, had lost all feeling and all interest for individual people, had ceased to demand the truth from people; that he preferred to have round him people such as were afraid to tell him the truth, who were hypocrites, who threw flowers at one another and at the same time spied on the others.

We were amazed at all these and similar talks. They brought with them immediately a kind of entirely new atmosphere which up to this time we had not had. And it was particularly strange because precisely at this time most of us were in a very emotional state and were particularly well disposed towards these two protesting members of our group.

We tried many times to talk to G. about them. He laughed very much when we told him that in their opinion we always gave him "wrong impressions" of them.

"How they value the work," he said, "and what a miserable idiot I am from their point of view; how easily I am deceived! You see that they have ceased to understand the most important thing. In the work the teacher of the work cannot be deceived. This is a law which proceeds from what has been said about knowledge and being. I may deceive you if I want to. But you cannot deceive me. If it were otherwise you would not learn from me and I would have to learn from you."

"How must we speak to them and how can we help them to come back to the group?" some of us asked G.

"Not only can you do nothing," G. said to them, "but you ought not to try because by such attempts you will destroy the last chance they have of understanding and seeing themselves. It is always very difficult to come back. And it must be an absolutely voluntary decision without any sort of persuasion or constraint. You should understand that everything you have heard about me and yourselves are attempts at self-justification, endeavors to blame others in order to feel that they are in the right. It means more and more lying. It must be destroyed and it can only be destroyed through suffering. If it was difficult for them to see themselves before, it will be ten times more difficult now."

"How could this have happened?" others asked him. "Why did their attitude towards all of us and towards you change so abruptly and unexpectedly?"

"It is the first case for you," said G., "and therefore it appears strange to you, but later on you will see that it happens very often and you will see that it always takes place in the same way. The principal reason for it is that it is impossible to sit between two stools. And people usually think that they can sit between two stools, that is, that they can acquire the new and preserve the old; they do not think this consciously of course but it comes to the same thing.

"And what is it that they most of all desire to preserve? First the right to have their own valuation of ideas and of people, that is, that which is more harmful for them than anything else. They are fools and they already know it, that is to say, they realized it at one time. For this reason they came to learn. But they forget all about this the next moment; they are already bringing into the work their own paltry and subjective attitude; they begin to pass judgment on me and on everyone else as though they were able to pass judgment on anything. And this is immediately reflected in their attitude towards the ideas and towards what I say. Already 'they accept one thing' and 'they do not accept another thing'; with one thing they agree, with another they disagree; they trust me in one thing, in another thing they do not trust me.

"And the most amusing part is that they imagine they are able 'to work' under such conditions, that is, without trusting me in everything and without accepting everything. In actual fact this is absolutely impossible. By not accepting something or mistrusting something they immediately invent something of their own in its place. 'Gagging' begins —new theories and new explanations which have nothing in common either with the work or with what I have said. Then they begin to find faults and inaccuracies in everything that I say or do and in everything that others say or do. From this moment I now begin to speak of things about which I have no knowledge and even of things of which I have no conception, but which they know and understand much better than I do; all the other members of the group are fools, idiots. And so on, and so on, like a barrel organ. When a man says something on these lines I already know all he will say later on. And you also will know by the consequences. And it is amusing that people can see this in relation to others. But when they themselves do crazy things they at once cease to see it in relation to themselves. This is a law. It is difficult to climb the hill but very easy to slide down it. They even feel no embarrassment in talking in such a manner either with me or with other people. And chiefly they think that this can be combined with some kind of 'work.' They do not even want to understand that when a man reaches this notch his little song has been sung.

"And note one thing more. They are a pair. If they were separate, each one by himself, it would be easier for them to see their situation and come back. But they are a pair, they are friends, and one supports the other precisely in his weaknesses. Now one cannot return without the other. And even if they wanted to come back, I would just take one of them and not take the other."

"Why?" asked one of those present.

"That is another question entirely," said G., "in the present case simply in order to enable the other to ask himself who is the most important for him, I or his friend. If he is the most important, then there is nothing to talk about, but if I am the most important, then he must leave his friend and come back alone. And then, afterwards, the other may come back. But I tell you that they cling to one another and hinder one another. This is an exact example of how people do the very worst thing they possibly can for themselves when they depart from what is good in them."
 
just catched this thread :shock:

very,very,very shocking,disturbing,disgusting "session". Thanks for keeping next to yourselves
:barf: :barf: :barf:
 
Perceval said:
Saša said:
If the Elders want to we'll do it ASAP.

Ya know, it's funny (in a very worrying kind of way) that you expect to get an answer to that after all we have already said. Has your thinking deteriorated so much that you can't see what you should do in this situation? Or maybe you are just too attached to your little experiment and don't really believe anything we have said here.

Interesting is also caught my attention after reading the topic, wait for confirmation when you know what to do now is to not want to do that ..

For this same refrain from testing with spirit board, waiting for new material on the subject.
I think the more important is the work of meditation, diet and observe each other and rolling.


It reminds me of the last session not to believe in lies and have a guard up.
 
Herr Eisenheim said:
There is nothing cool about this, I am really sorry you have wasted so much time and energy feeding the moon

Yes I little late I am, but this situation with the spirit board remembers me identification.
 
This whole ordeal is very, though painfully, interesting. I sincerely hope the three overcome their obstacles and come back to the group.
 
"And note one thing more. They are a pair. If they were separate, each one by himself, it would be easier for them to see their situation and come back. But they are a pair, they are friends, and one supports the other precisely in his weaknesses. Now one cannot return without the other. And even if they wanted to come back, I would just take one of them and not take the other."

"Why?" asked one of those present.

"That is another question entirely," said G., "in the present case simply in order to enable the other to ask himself who is the most important for him, I or his friend. If he is the most important, then there is nothing to talk about, but if I am the most important, then he must leave his friend and come back alone. And then, afterwards, the other may come back. But I tell you that they cling to one another and hinder one another. This is an exact example of how people do the very worst thing they possibly can for themselves when they depart from what is good in them."

Wow, how accurately this passage decribes the situation. Hope they decide the better for themselves.
 
Herr Eisenheim said:
Pete said:
I know that when I was in the spotlight for something I had done it didn't help to have many comments that were said racing through my mind. It didn't help me think clearly. All my little 'I' could think about was to be defensive.
Exactly and this is why torch wielding and accusatory posts dont help. Someone said something about feeding the energy into the black hole and this comment seemed very inappropriate.

That comment (mine) was neither about accusing nor about wielding a torch - it was about noting the seeming non-effectiveness of further investment in the then-current efforts to reach through to them, in light of which I thought repeating something with no results would be a waste of energy.

If they now do respond, and communicate in earnest, then all the time and effort they have been given in this thread will have been very well-spent. If they instead discard this gift, the whole effort - apart from the lessons it presents - will have been a waste.
 
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