Esoterica > The Work
Importance of freedom
CelticWarrior:
I'd like to start my post with a quote by Gurdjieff.
“We must strive for freedom if we strive for self-knowledge. The task of self-knowledge and of further self-development is of such importance and seriousness, it demands such intensity of effort, that to attempt it any old way and amongst other things is impossible. The person who undertakes this task must put it first in his life, which is not so long that he can afford to squander it on trifles.”
Okay, now here is what's on my mind. If the task of self-understanding/development is to be achieved then it not only takes an incredible amount of energy, time, effort and in most cases sacrifice of what you think is important but, what about the ability to explore the work of oneself with or without freedom.
Let's say for example I was in a routine that kept me from really tackling what I wanted to learn. The "old way" as Gurdjieff put it would be impossible.
Now, I'm faced with the possibility of a new routine, getting a new job and a new place to live. (I'm actually very happy about this by the way). So what can I accomplish with older ways of "doing things" which others are still clearly unable to break free from in everyday life? The external consideration factor applies.
Any suggestions on my question above is appreciated.
Mrs. Peel:
--- Quote from: CelticWarrior on August 23, 2011, 07:38:56 PM ---I'd like to start my post with a quote by Gurdjieff.
“Now, I'm faced with the possibility of a new routine, getting a new job and a new place to live. (I'm actually very happy about this by the way). So what can I accomplish with older ways of "doing things" which others are still clearly unable to break free from in everyday life? The external consideration factor applies.
Any suggestions on my question above is appreciated.
--- End quote ---
Hi,
I'm not really sure what you're asking. Can you give a bit more data? What "older ways?" are you talking about? Can you go into a bit more detail about your circumstances? :)
Turgon:
--- Quote ---“We must strive for freedom if we strive for self-knowledge. The task of self-knowledge and of further self-development is of such importance and seriousness, it demands such intensity of effort, that to attempt it any old way and amongst other things is impossible. The person who undertakes this task must put it first in his life, which is not so long that he can afford to squander it on trifles.”
--- End quote ---
I think, CW, what's meant by 'any old way' by Gurdjieff is more of a mechanical response to action. That is the 'old' way because that is how human beings have been doing things for thousands of years. So to strive for freedom can't be done mechanically, because it's completely subjective, with constraints that aren't seen because you aren't conscious of them.
--- Quote from: CW ---what about the ability to explore the work of oneself with or without freedom.
--- End quote ---
To explore the work requires observation and 'recording' what's happening, emotionally, mentally and physically. That is what demands intensity and effort. Then once that is done for a period of time (which may be a long period of time) you start to understand more about yourself, how you operate, why you do and act the way you do.
Freedom doesn't really play a part in this because there is no freedom. Everything happens.
--- Quote ---Let's say for example I was in a routine that kept me from really tackling what I wanted to learn. The "old way" as Gurdjieff put it would be impossible.
--- End quote ---
I think it's more about looking at the same routine, but from a fresher perspective. Attempting to be more awake and aware while doing the same routine.
--- Quote ---Now, I'm faced with the possibility of a new routine, getting a new job and a new place to live. (I'm actually very happy about this by the way). So what can I accomplish with older ways of "doing things" which others are still clearly unable to break free from in everyday life? The external consideration factor applies.
--- End quote ---
Well, in esoteric work, nothing. If you want to accomplish anything esoterically by being in a new routine and not do things the 'old way', it requires observation and study first. Then maybe you can accomplish 'conscious' work while doing the same routine.
Does this make sense?
CelticWarrior:
Thank you Turgon, you make sense indeed! Understanding more about how I operate and learning or recording those observations is what I will be doing on my new quest for further self-development.
@ Mrs. Peel
If you are still able to comment I'd appreciate your insights or experiences. To be more clear, I want to know how do deal with everyday situations and how to see or understand very carefully what I am doing in respect to actions that involve other people and myself. From time to time I feel the need to be overly critical of what faults other people might have when clearly they are in need of knowing why they are reacting emotionally to something or eating the wrong food (highly processed/manufactured foods) but, I don't see the need to push my ideas onto others as I want others to become aware of what's happening around them and within themselves like myself. My circumstances are that I'm moving away from home and my parents and wanted a fresh perspective on being more conscious.
Any further comments are appreciated... thanks :)
beetlemaniac:
Sometimes, doing things the 'old way' may also involve some Identification, as Gurdjieff explained it. You could also try to detect all those times that you are identified to a certain activity and consequently forget yourself. When I'm identified with a thing, I become like a piece of meat, all my energy is concentrated on that thing, making me unable to see anything but what has caused the fascination. It can bring a lot of misery since one has limited himself so drastically in one narrow direction, forgetting everything else in the larger world, and most importantly, himself.
So I suppose one could say that the first steps in the Work are all about self-remembering and catching oneself out when one goes too far into the world (which also includes being identified with thoughts). Constant vigilance! :)
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