Thoughts regarding 4d STS

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, it's really hard to make these distinctions from our level. And I agree that it seems there must be a relation between the full manifestation of STS and physicality (and 4th Density being the last density with any physicality, although variable and much less limited than our 3rd Density).

For me, 5th Density is even a bigger enigma than 4th and 6th Densities. I seem to get a better "understanding" of what's been described about 4th and 6th Densities than about 5th Density, aside from it being the Contemplation and Recycling Zone. That part I have a better "understanding" of. But the part that eventually souls do not have to reincarnate in the lower, physical densities, and can remain in 5th (all the lessons having been learned, so to say) and then go to 6th Density, makes it that much more tricky to imagine -- as far as STS is concerned.

I'm not sure but I think that souls that remain STS in 5th Density become so inert that they are another step lower as "Thought Forms/Thought Centers" on 6th Density. In other words, something like the Thought Forms/Thought Centers of STS that must exist in 6th Density as reflections for balance work down into 5th and then 4th as they activate through the archetypes into the lower Densities? The fact that all of this is not linear and is simultaneous makes it really tricky to describe exactly how the progression happens. And, in any case, it seems at the higher levels than 3rd Density, the choice is a lot more conscious to remain STS -- to consciously choose "evil."

One more speculation, the ultimate STS Thought Center of Non-Being must be such a strong drain and impetus to assimilate the lower level STS consciousnesses in the hierarchy that it's like the 5th Density STS becomes something in between a full entity and the reflections mentioned about 6th Density. In other words, for all practical intents and purposes, the 5th Density STS are so inactive that they are scarcely different than these reflections?

Anyway, in a sense I'm glad that our primary lessons are to understand the dynamics of 3rd Density, because as difficult as that may be, I think it's actually doable, whereas, trying to really grasp the higher Densities is not possible for us at this level.

[transientP]

SeekInTruth,

Q: (L) So, in other words, we should be able to perceive on 1st and 2nd as well as 3rd while working on 4th level understanding?
A: No. Work on 4th, 5th and 6th.
Q: (L) Is it not also beneficial to understand the 1st and 2nd density levels as well, just simply for the exercise in understanding that which is below us?
A: Strive always to rise.

in my humble opinion, it can be very helpful developmentally to try always and grasp or engage in concepts which are currently 'out of our reach' so to speak.

don't you think ?

plus, even though it may be extremely difficult to envision higher densities, humankind has had at least a few representatives that come to mind, which have done exactly that.. and possibly more that were/are not famous for it.

Edit: fixed typo.

[Buddy]

I apologise if these ideas have already been addressed, but I'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts regarding this idea that...basically...we are the 4d sts?

On a lighter note, and not that I know sheet from shinola, but what if we were? We're also chickens, did you know that? If memory serves, the human genome project estimates that, genetically speaking, humans are about .86% chicken and chickens are about 86% human.

So, when you look at a chicken, do you see some 'thing' 'separate' from yourself, or do you see more like interrelationship commingling (whatever that means)? 

[transientP]

buddy,

maybe lauryn hill got it right when she said; 'everything is everything.'

chickens, people, clouds..
maybe from a very detached perspective it's all one big hologram.
not necessarily in the sense that reality is virtual... but in the sense that every aspect of it is mirrored in every other, regardless of scale or location.

i'm just blabbing at this point, which proves i might be a chicken.. 

[Buddy]

buddy,

maybe lauryn hill got it right when she said; 'everything is everything.'

chickens, people, clouds..
maybe from a very detached perspective it's all one big hologram.
not necessarily in the sense that reality is virtual... but in the sense that every aspect of it is mirrored in every other, regardless of scale or location.

i'm just blabbing at this point, which proves i might be a chicken.. 

Right (just kidding  ). So then the question becomes "who, what, when, where, how, why" you wanna be? We need discernment, a knowledge of STO choice possibilities, and some will to make and implement a choice. Again, again, and again and forever as long as our frequency vibration is influenced that way, OSIT.

[A.K.]

And should the moment comes to past where he still chooses STS, then being recycled into a primal matter is next.

Insisting on choosing STS could not be a reason, I think, to be recycled to primal matter. It might more be related, in some of the cases, to non-choosing; going ahead of oneself in one's STS-oriented actions without consciously choosing STS. Genghis Khan has chosen STS consciously according to Ra. The harmony between the consciousness of his choice and his (however brutal) actions was good enough to successfuly graduating him to 4D STS. He was very sincere, that is. This is how I see it.

It does make sense. As no one wants to be chowder. 

Seems there hints of 5D STS existence. So i guess to be in pure energy form one has to shed physicality which in STO mode is pretty easy to do thus it's the 'main path to be taken' kind of way. But with the mention of 5D STS which is to say either they're there to contemplate or  something happened on 4D which cost their  physicality and graduate to 5D with a STS consciousness? Now where do they go if that happen? They can't be there indefinitely, right?

[SeekinTruth]

SeekInTruth,

Q: (L) So, in other words, we should be able to perceive on 1st and 2nd as well as 3rd while working on 4th level understanding?
A: No. Work on 4th, 5th and 6th.
Q: (L) Is it not also beneficial to understand the 1st and 2nd density levels as well, just simply for the exercise in understanding that which is below us?
A: Strive always to rise.

in my humble opinion, it can be very helpful developmentally to try always and grasp or engage in concepts which are currently 'out of our reach' so to speak.

don't you think ?

plus, even though it may be extremely difficult to envision higher densities, humankind has had at least a few representatives that come to mind, which have done exactly that.. and possibly more that were/are not famous for it.

Edit: fixed typo.

Well, yes, it can be helpful for our development to try to grasp concepts that are out of our reach, including higher densities. However, as long as we don't over do it. We have limited time and energy to Work on ourselves and complete learning the lessons on THIS density. Remember the C's also told Laura that you don't have to "get it" to move to 4th Density. You just have to learn ALL the lessons of 3rd Density. The analogy they gave was "where do you go when you finish 3rd grade? Do you already have to be in 4th grade to be allowed to go there?" (paraphrased). So our primary focus still needs to be to learn all our lessons here on this level.

Having said that, just a little more speculation on the 5th Density STS issue. I'm just elaborating what I speculated before. The soul that chooses to remain STS and no longer needs to reincarnate into the lower 4 Densities, but instead remains in 5th Density, seems to have reached such a level of contraction into itself, such a level of withdrawal, that I think it probably only has influence on lower level STS by the "gravitational" quality on the level of thought and no direct interaction, perhaps?

Also, I again reiterate the point that all this happens in a non-linear way -- all simultaneously -- as linear time is our illusion and does not exist objectively. Whereas 4th Density has the capability to move back and forth in "time," 5th Density and above is supposed to be totally "timeless" with 7th Density being timeless in the fullest sense, right? So this issue of 4th Density STS being the last full manifestation of STS, and whether those who choose to remain STS will then recycle to primal matter, again it all happens simultaneously, all "at the same moment" so to say -- moving up all the way to Union with the One and down to 1st Density where STS will be attracted to the physicality and the "sleeping state of consciousness" as its inherent nature?

[bozadi]

in my humble opinion, it can be very helpful developmentally to try always and grasp or engage in concepts which are currently 'out of our reach' so to speak.

Thank you for this highlighting, transientP.

So then the question becomes "who, what, when, where, how, why" you wanna be? We need discernment, a knowledge of STO choice possibilities, and some will to make and implement a choice. Again, again, and again and forever as long as our frequency vibration is influenced that way, OSIT.

Good point. Let me share a certain type of STS and STO discernment that I have had in the flow of my daily life: I see that the status quo always diminishes the confidence, peace, joy in me and in my biological and social family, that this is a very conscious and purposeful act by the status quo, and that what we accept as our life is very compliant with what status quo does to us, then I understand that this is a serious spiritual war, not an ordinary life. Their aim is to deplete our confidence, peace and joy, then, at last, make us their slave soldiers; and our aim is, if it is, to protect and even grow these positive attributes further. I see that what I accept as an ordinary life is a complete lie. Its content is just helping settings of the lie put in our minds by the utmost insidious aggressor. Our truth is a struggle between protecting our freedom, solidarity, confidence, peace and joy, and losing it. When I see this general truth, it is the only aim, only reason for living that I feel to be worthwhile that I must challenge this very real intrusion in myself and in my family. I need to continue to live in and around the settings of the lie but gradually and consiously awaken myself and my family to the truth of the situation, so that we can stop deceiving and torturing ourselves, stop working for the benefit of the evil status quo, but for the real benefit of ourselves by working and living solely to grow our much lacking real confidence, peace, joy, freedom and solidarity.

So in this sense, what status quo (its owner) is and does and how I comply with it are all based on STS motivations. And the growing awareness of the situation and the intent and will to stop and reverse this process are based on STO motivations, as I see it.

[transientP]

SeekInTruth,

Well, yes, it can be helpful for our development to try to grasp concepts that are out of our reach, including higher densities. However, as long as we don't over do it. We have limited time and energy to Work on ourselves and complete learning the lessons on THIS density. Remember the C's also told Laura that you don't have to "get it" to move to 4th Density. You just have to learn ALL the lessons of 3rd Density. The analogy they gave was "where do you go when you finish 3rd grade? Do you already have to be in 4th grade to be allowed to go there?" (paraphrased). So our primary focus still needs to be to learn all our lessons here on this level.

yes, i could not agree more.

regarding;

Having said that, just a little more speculation on the 5th Density STS issue. I'm just elaborating what I speculated before. The soul that chooses to remain STS and no longer needs to reincarnate into the lower 4 Densities, but instead remains in 5th Density, seems to have reached such a level of contraction into itself, such a level of withdrawal, that I think it probably only has influence on lower level STS by the "gravitational" quality on the level of thought and no direct interaction, perhaps?

i thought that 5th density is a place of temporary contemplation before recycling back into one of the lower densities, and that was the only function of it. i had never thought about it as being a density that one would necessarily 'remain' in without going back for lessons on lower ones.
so i did a quick search,
this excerpt is from the cassiopaea glossary;

5th Density
 
This term is used by the Cassiopaeans to denote a non-physical state of being where entities that incarnate in 1st thru 4th densities exist between incarnations. This is also called a recycling zone.

Ra describes this as the first non-physical density or the density of wisdom, the first where thought can create reality without being bounded by material restrictions.

In reading Cassiopaea transcripts, it seems that we need to distinguish between occupying 5th density as a between lives stage from being a 5th density soul. The latter would mean one which had graduated from 4th density and no longer would incarnate there.

according to this, it seems that, yes, there are beings that theoretically inhabit 5th and do not recycle back. interesting.
i had always had this primarily in mind regarding 5th;

Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS. Does that mean that the 5th level, which you have described as the "contemmplative" level... what is the state of existence of a STS being on the 5th level?

A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.

Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their next incarnation?

A: Exactly.

Q: (T) That is why it's called the contemplation level. You go and think about what you have done. (T) What about souls on 6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS beings?

A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer need to recycle.

which suggested, to me at least, that fifth is not inhabited as such, but is used only for reflection between recycling back to lower densities.
and i had thought that once all lessons of 1-4th have been learned, then one moves to sixth.
what's your take on this ?

---

Also, I again reiterate the point that all this happens in a non-linear way -- all simultaneously -- as linear time is our illusion and does not exist objectively. Whereas 4th Density has the capability to move back and forth in "time," 5th Density and above is supposed to be totally "timeless" with 7th Density being timeless in the fullest sense, right? So this issue of 4th Density STS being the last full manifestation of STS, and whether those who choose to remain STS will then recycle to primal matter, again it all happens simultaneously, all "at the same moment" so to say -- moving up all the way to Union with the One and down to 1st Density where STS will be attracted to the physicality and the "sleeping state of consciousness" as its inherent nature?

regarding the first portion of your quote which i've bolded;
i love non-linearity, as it has proven itself to be, in various fields of scientific query, a much more reliable model of how things actually work.
i'll even go so far as to say i currently hold notions of linear time to be childish and rubbish. 
so.. with this in mind, the-moment could be said to be pulsating 'outwards' in space-time and creating or linking with nodes of 'past'-moments and 'future'-moments continually.

as to the second bolded segment;
yes. the c's have said that STS ends in a black hole. so it seems that they attempt to ADD to themselves, aggrandize themselves and are so self-centric in general, that all their amassing of false-selfhood creates a type of 'gravity' so to speak which ends up collapsing on itself.
quite similar, in fact, to the way black holes are theorized to be created.

[transientP]

bozadi,

Quote from: buddy

So then the question becomes "who, what, when, where, how, why" you wanna be? We need discernment, a knowledge of STO choice possibilities, and some will to make and implement a choice. Again, again, and again and forever as long as our frequency vibration is influenced that way, OSIT.

Good point. Let me share a certain type of STS and STO discernment that I have had in the flow of my daily life: I see that the status quo always diminishes the confidence, peace, joy in me and in my biological and social family, that this is a very conscious and purposeful act by the status quo, and that what we accept as our life is very compliant with what status quo does to us, then I understand that this is a serious spiritual war, not an ordinary life. Their aim is to deplete our confidence, peace and joy, then, at last, make us their slave soldiers; and our aim is, if it is, to protect and even grow these positive attributes further. I see that what I accept as an ordinary life is a complete lie. Its content is just helping settings of the lie put in our minds by the utmost insidious aggressor. Our truth is a struggle between protecting our freedom, solidarity, confidence, peace and joy, and losing it. When I see this general truth, it is the only aim, only reason for living that I feel to be worthwhile that I must challenge this very real intrusion in myself and in my family. I need to continue to live in and around the settings of the lie but gradually and consiously awaken myself and my family to the truth of the situation, so that we can stop deceiving and torturing ourselves, stop working for the benefit of the evil status quo, but for the real benefit of ourselves by working and living solely to grow our much lacking real confidence, peace, joy, freedom and solidarity.

So in this sense, what status quo (its owner) is and does and how I comply with it are all based on STS motivations. And the growing awareness of the situation and the intent and will to stop and reverse this process are based on STO motivations, as I see it.

wow. very well put.

[SeekinTruth]

SeekInTruth,

Well, yes, it can be helpful for our development to try to grasp concepts that are out of our reach, including higher densities. However, as long as we don't over do it. We have limited time and energy to Work on ourselves and complete learning the lessons on THIS density. Remember the C's also told Laura that you don't have to "get it" to move to 4th Density. You just have to learn ALL the lessons of 3rd Density. The analogy they gave was "where do you go when you finish 3rd grade? Do you already have to be in 4th grade to be allowed to go there?" (paraphrased). So our primary focus still needs to be to learn all our lessons here on this level.

yes, i could not agree more.

regarding;

Having said that, just a little more speculation on the 5th Density STS issue. I'm just elaborating what I speculated before. The soul that chooses to remain STS and no longer needs to reincarnate into the lower 4 Densities, but instead remains in 5th Density, seems to have reached such a level of contraction into itself, such a level of withdrawal, that I think it probably only has influence on lower level STS by the "gravitational" quality on the level of thought and no direct interaction, perhaps?

i thought that 5th density is a place of temporary contemplation before recycling back into one of the lower densities, and that was the only function of it. i had never thought about it as being a density that one would necessarily 'remain' in without going back for lessons on lower ones.
so i did a quick search,
this excerpt is from the cassiopaea glossary;

5th Density
 
This term is used by the Cassiopaeans to denote a non-physical state of being where entities that incarnate in 1st thru 4th densities exist between incarnations. This is also called a recycling zone.

Ra describes this as the first non-physical density or the density of wisdom, the first where thought can create reality without being bounded by material restrictions.

In reading Cassiopaea transcripts, it seems that we need to distinguish between occupying 5th density as a between lives stage from being a 5th density soul. The latter would mean one which had graduated from 4th density and no longer would incarnate there.

according to this, it seems that, yes, there are beings that theoretically inhabit 5th and do not recycle back. interesting.
i had always had this primarily in mind regarding 5th;

Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS. Does that mean that the 5th level, which you have described as the "contemmplative" level... what is the state of existence of a STS being on the 5th level?

A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.

Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their next incarnation?

A: Exactly.

Q: (T) That is why it's called the contemplation level. You go and think about what you have done. (T) What about souls on 6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS beings?

A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer need to recycle.

which suggested, to me at least, that fifth is not inhabited as such, but is used only for reflection between recycling back to lower densities.
and i had thought that once all lessons of 1-4th have been learned, then one moves to sixth.
what's your take on this ?

---

Also, I again reiterate the point that all this happens in a non-linear way -- all simultaneously -- as linear time is our illusion and does not exist objectively. Whereas 4th Density has the capability to move back and forth in "time," 5th Density and above is supposed to be totally "timeless" with 7th Density being timeless in the fullest sense, right? So this issue of 4th Density STS being the last full manifestation of STS, and whether those who choose to remain STS will then recycle to primal matter, again it all happens simultaneously, all "at the same moment" so to say -- moving up all the way to Union with the One and down to 1st Density where STS will be attracted to the physicality and the "sleeping state of consciousness" as its inherent nature?

regarding the first portion of your quote which i've bolded;
i love non-linearity, as it has proven itself to be, in various fields of scientific query, a much more reliable model of how things actually work.
i'll even go so far as to say i currently hold notions of linear time to be childish and rubbish. 
so.. with this in mind, the-moment could be said to be pulsating 'outwards' in space-time and creating or linking with nodes of 'past'-moments and 'future'-moments continually.

as to the second bolded segment;
yes. the c's have said that STS ends in a black hole. so it seems that they attempt to ADD to themselves, aggrandize themselves and are so self-centric in general, that all their amassing of false-selfhood creates a type of 'gravity' so to speak which ends up collapsing on itself.
quite similar, in fact, to the way black holes are theorized to be created.

Well, I'm not certain as far as what my take on "souls inhabiting 5th Density" / 5th Density souls is. I've read that there could be a point in a soul's evolution where it would "stay" in 5th Density as it would not need to recycle "right away." But again since 5th and higher are timeless, what does this actually mean. We probably just can't get our heads around it well enough to really describe it well. That's what I've been speculating about and trying to figure out. Because I've also read in the C's material / Laura's writings that there is no way to go further up the Densities for STS after 4th level. So I'd say my take is not so important. Probably someone with a better grasp of these concepts could do a better job of explaining it clearly. The crux of the matter seems to me to be non-linearity / timelessness and the fact that fully "fledged" STS entities have a very strong affinity to physicality / matter.

[transientP]

The crux of the matter seems to me to be non-linearity / timelessness and the fact that fully "fledged" STS entities have a very strong affinity to physicality / matter.

yup. and..

Q: (L) Is it a radiating wave?

A: All in creation is just that: a radiating wave.

Q: (L) Where does the energy go that gets sucked into a black hole?

A: Inward to total nonexistence.

Q: (L) Well, if a black hole continues to suck stuff in, is it possible that it would eventually suck in the entire creation?

A: No.

Q: (L) Why is that?

A: Universe is all encompassing. Black holes are final destination of all STS energy.

Q: (F) So, does this mean that we, or anyone else who is classified as STS, remains on said path, that we will eventually end up in a Black Hole?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Well, that is pleasant. And what happens to energy that is "total non-existence"?

A: Total non-existence balances total existence. Guess what is total existence?

Q: (L) Well, is it kind of like a balancing force?

A: "God."

it's interesting that they say;

Black holes are final destination of all STS energy.

it almost sounds as though blatck holes are the universe's cleansing apparatus..

[bozadi]

Sorry for focusing on the 5D on this thread, maybe mods can later move the related messages under another thread.

I have always thought that the 5D is just another density although it has a specific function as being the contemplation and recycling zone. Just like every density has a certain curriculum, the 5D must have one, too.

One interesting thing about the 5D is that "some part of your soul" remains in the 5D when you reincarnate to the 3D (There were several instances that this fact was given in the sessions, I will try to find them). And this fact can give us an important insight about the peculiarity of the 5D contemplation and recycling zone. Remember also that C's described the 5D as the "home" of the souls. When you combine these two facts: True individual existence has its base in the 5D. You, in a sense, always (perpetually) exist in the 5D, although you could and will die and cease to exist in the 3D as you did many times with your disincarnations. Your true individual being is always stationed in the 5D (until you graduate to the 6D).

Black holes are final destination of all STS energy.

Does not it resemble saying "Toilet is the final destination of all the residual food matter after digestion"?

[anart]

i find it interesting as well that 5D, or 'contemplation' is not deemed STS because while working to better your SELF, it is more akin to soul-seeking, i.e. learning, personal growth.

I don't think it's accurate to say that 5D is 'not deemed STS' - 5D is a completely different realm, utilized 'between' incarnations, so to my understanding, it is all encompassing, which means it necessarily includes STS.  I think that you might be equating 5D with the experience in other densities and I don't think that's applicable since it's an entirely different 'mode', as it were.

[transientP]

anart,

I don't think it's accurate to say that 5D is 'not deemed STS' - 5D is a completely different realm, utilized 'between' incarnations, so to my understanding, it is all encompassing, which means it necessarily includes STS.  I think that you might be equating 5D with the experience in other densities and I don't think that's applicable since it's an entirely different 'mode', as it were.

yes, i see what you're saying.
5th is utilized by all 1-4th in between incarnations, so, naturally, every type of being would be utilizing it.

yet we do know that 4th is the last density for the full manifestation of STS.

what do you think happens then to a strongly polarized STS entity when it utilizes 5th ?
how does the mere utilizing of 5th exclude the full manifestation of STS ?

that's the part i seem not to be able to wrap my brain around..