13-year-old girl becomes record-setting weight lifter (and she loves bacon !!!)

Foxx said:
Muxel said:
Hang on—that part about "sumo girls" was meant jokingly! [..]
I really don't think you're being honest with yourself here because the joke wasn't funny, but cruel


Yes, it is nasty. Not only that, but, it's "damned if you do and damned if you don't". According to Muxel, if a woman has a weight on her, she is a "sumo girl". If she has lean muscle and uses it, it's inappropriate for a girl, marred in physicality, and narcissistic. If she strongly voices her opinion, she is a vindictive feminist. Can she do anything right?
 
Guardian said:
The average woman in the US is 5'3-4" tall, and weighs about 150 lbs. Size is usually directly related to physical strength, so unless you are extremely thin and underdeveloped muscularly, I really don't see how 85% of American women can be stronger than you if you're 5'11"...unless there is a disability involved?
I've always been thin, prone to being blown away by the wind. (OMG maybe I could be a high-fashion anorexic model!) I said "awkward" because I get quite self-conscious in a sea of shorter people. And having to look down when talking to most people.

Ah Foxx, would you deny this poor old soul a "fat Americans" joke? :) I know it's pathological but I also see the humor in it. For example, I can't help cracking up watching the Black Friday stampede vids or hearing about that woman who pepper-sprayed everybody to get an Xbox 360. When I saw the "carb-guzzling sumo girl" jogging on the sidewalk, I empathized with her from afar. But here I'm poking fun at the pandemic, not the individual.
Foxx said:
I think it's emotional, but that you're looking for it in your intellectual center. You may "think" it's absurd, but "feel" that you're right.
Yeah. I went in intellectual circles rather than exploring the emotional route. Reading back now, it sounds a bit too cerebral for my taste. (I usually fancy a heavy helping of emotion in my posts.) I defiantly "feel" I'm right a lot, but God Prime Creator 6th Density knows how many times I've been proven wrong on this forum.
Foxx said:
If you had absolutely no issues in this regard, you wouldn't be concerned about seeing any more "Muxel hates women" comments, especially when there hasn't even yet been such a comment!
I dunno Foxx, but the fact that I'm having to justify not having any problems regarding women is ridiculous! :cry: I don't want to defend any little I's à la self-importance, but I gotta set the record straight or else this will haunt me on the forum.
Foxx said:
Remember what I said about feelings of self-dissatisfaction?
Self-dissatisfaction would be a symptom of self-importance wouldn't it? About emotional trauma...it can't be rejection because I've been single all my life...can't be bullying because it was a boy and I've mostly resolved that one...90% of the girls I've met were nice...can't be my mom because that only resulted in rebelliousness...but yes I do "feel" the emotion within me when I react to posts, and if I follow that thread far enough I'll hit the answer. Gimme a little time...
Foxx said:
I really genuinely think that you're trying to gain some ground in The Work and, from my perspective, it sounds like you're still lying to yourself with some regularity, which is why I'm giving you this reflection :)
And I'm grateful for it. I try to keep an open mind when it comes to any mirror of myself. Some mirrors get me worked up, and I'd have to go cool off before thinking about it.

Jason (ocean59) said:
I'm 6'4" and remember feeling pretty awkward about this at times. Eventually I realized that it was something I had no control over (aside from exercises to increase coordination), and stopped worrying about it - it's not like we have the power to change our height.
Hi Jason, yeah I've chilled out about my height, even though I had to rehash some concerns for this thread. (Puberty was a nightmare, wasn't it?) I blame milk. Those unnatural growth hormones...

Jesus, Hildegarda, can I do anything right? I don't remember saying any of those things. If you twisted my words even more, I'd have been talking about Obama. I really didn't need that, not when I'm trying to work out some issues with myself at the moment.
 
Muxel, here's what Gurdjieff would say to you in the present situation:

"The struggle against lying in oneself and the struggle against fears is the first positive work which a man begins to do.

"One must realize in general that positive efforts and even sacrifices in the work do not justify or excuse mistakes which may follow. On the contrary, things that could be forgiven in a man who has made no efforts and who has sacrificed nothing will not be forgiven in another who has already made great sacrifices.

"This seems to be unjust, but one must understand the law. There is, as it were, a separate account kept for every man. His efforts and sacrifices are written down on one side of the book and his mistakes and misdeeds on the other side. What is written down on the positive side can never atone for what is written down on the negative side. What is recorded on the negative side can only be wiped out by the truth, that is to say, by an instant and complete confession to himself and to others and above all to the teacher. If a man sees his fault but continues to justify himself, a small offense may destroy the result of whole years of work and effort. In the work, therefore, it is often better to admit one's guilt even when one is not guilty.

You might be surprised to discover how people will react to a free and honest admission that you were/are trying to rationalize, wiseacre, get out of a tight spot (and only making it worse with everything you say.)

Example: "Yeah, I really am a mess and my thinking is distorted all over the place and I am really thankful when it gets pointed out to me. Thanks! I'm a work in progress!"

Response from others: "Don't worry about it man! Everybody has been there, done that! Join the club! Now, back to talking about children lifting weights."
 
Instead, you keep making excuses for your behaviour, and saying that everybody is seeing something that is not there.

Think about it - all people that are posting in this thread are seeing your behaviour for what it is, but you affirm that everyone is mistaken. Have you forgotten that there are parts that we cannot see of ourselves?

In another note the closing of epiphyseal plates myth - the idea is that if anything happens to damage the plates, the growth would stop. Not only this is not proven, even if this were true, it would be very, very hard for her to find a position that she could damage the epiphyseal plates while weightlifiting.
There are scores of weightlifters that began in their teens or younger and now are taller than most of the population, at 6'0 and beyond.
Also remember that many basketball players use weights to develop explosiveness, and well, they are freaking tall.
 
Did you actually watch the video about the girl? It doesn't seem like you did, since all of the above was addressed and she definitely looks perfectly normal and healthy.

So it seems that you also didn t read what I wrote, I was talking about her future, and for now it seems that everything is ok. Let me ask you one question: Did you did some sport for professionally, semi-professionally? I cant believe that people are here talking about something and don t know nothing about it, like someone comes and starts to talk and explain mathematics to mathematician because he heard it from someone else.

When it comes to sports, especially those involving physical strength, it most certainly does come down to genetics. Nordic and/or Russian women excel at weight lifting for a reason, their gene pools produce some VERY large, strong women....most likely because they come from such extremely harsh environments?

What you say is partly true, because it s not always the case, there are some very skinny people that can also lift heavy weights that are heavier than what an much larger men can lift, but it also has to do with training, genetics without practice is nothing, an not all women are so strong in Russia or everywhere else, it s a generalization. Russians are not Nordics they are mostly Slavs and there are also good lifters that don t come from Russia or Nordic countries. Will is the most important.

Those are a lot of assumptions.

Yes it s assumption based on facts.


Basically it sounds as if just because you don't find someone attractive, no one else will/should.

It doesn t mean that she won t found but is this attractive to normal human:

http://www.female-bodybuilders.org/videos/elena-shportun/01/

Thee s that saying: In healthy body healthy spirit, how can a person who is on steroids or so body-centric be healthy in spirit?

There's also been enough blood spilled in this world to prove one's superiority based on gender and sex as well.

Not so much as it s been spilled for racial superiority because women didn t fight , except Amazon women who did.

Recommended by who? Some skinny little government bureaucrat that kid could probably bench press by the time she was 10?

And what s the difference between "skinny" (not mentioning your judgment of people in this sentence, and probably you re a person who gives a much deal to psychical strength which is in the concept of work totally unimportant, but never mind) bureaucrat and some coach. Do you think coach knows better?
 
dannybananny said:
Did you actually watch the video about the girl? It doesn't seem like you did, since all of the above was addressed and she definitely looks perfectly normal and healthy.

So it seems that you also didn t read what I wrote, I was talking about her future, and for now it seems that everything is ok. Let me ask you one question: Did you did some sport for professionally, semi-professionally? I cant believe that people are here talking about something and don t know nothing about it, like someone comes and starts to talk and explain mathematics to mathematician because he heard it from someone else.
This seems like a deflection as the question wasn't answered. Did you watch the video?

dannybananny said:
Those are a lot of assumptions.

Yes it s assumption based on facts.
Facts based on this specific situation or facts based on the situation with regards to some others?

dannybananny said:
Basically it sounds as if just because you don't find someone attractive, no one else will/should.

It doesn t mean that she won t found but is this attractive to normal human:

http://www.female-bodybuilders.org/videos/elena-shportun/01/
Define normal. The same way you appreciate having the right to do what you like doesn't apply to others?

dannybananny said:
Thee s that saying: In healthy body healthy spirit, how can a person who is on steroids or so body-centric be healthy in spirit?
I think you're continuing to confuse the subject of this thread - a 13 year old girl - with others. That would be a generalization, or so I think.

dannybananny said:
There's also been enough blood spilled in this world to prove one's superiority based on gender and sex as well.

Not so much as it s been spilled for racial superiority because women didn t fight , except Amazon women who did.
A woman doesn't have to fight in a war in order to get killed. Many have been killed just for existing or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. By viewing it through the lens of war, perhaps you forget that battles happen on many levels and in many ways? How many women have been killed for not fitting in to societies expectations? This would not only include the physical, but also mental and spiritual.

It seems you're taking a specific situation that is happening in real time and automatically taking it to the worst extreme (illusion). She's a young girl enjoying a sport that happens to not fit within the common perception of what a girl "should' do. Atheletes of all kinds have been found to take steroids yet somehow I doubt that if she were playing baseball, the reaction garnered would have been the same. Being sts, all are ponerized. I don't think there's a sport that isn't. That said, if one approaches it with the correct frame of mind, perhaps some balance can be achieved. We have yet to know whether this is the case or not with this girl. Why discount her so easily?

edit: clarity
 
Muxel said:
Hi Jason, yeah I've chilled out about my height, even though I had to rehash some concerns for this thread. (Puberty was a nightmare, wasn't it?) I blame milk. Those unnatural growth hormones..

I hate to burst your "I'm so special" bubble, Muxel, but 5'11" isn't unusually tall. I'm 5'11" - and I'm female. You really are wrapped up in yourself, though...
 
Muxel said:
Guardian said:
The average woman in the US is 5'3-4" tall, and weighs about 150 lbs. Size is usually directly related to physical strength, so unless you are extremely thin and underdeveloped muscularly, I really don't see how 85% of American women can be stronger than you if you're 5'11"...unless there is a disability involved?
I've always been thin, prone to being blown away by the wind. (OMG maybe I could be a high-fashion anorexic model!) I said "awkward" because I get quite self-conscious in a sea of shorter people. And having to look down when talking to most people.
So because you are self conscious, you project that onto others? Sort of a get them before they get you?

Muxel said:
Ah Foxx, would you deny this poor old soul a "fat Americans" joke? :) I know it's pathological but I also see the humor in it. For example, I can't help cracking up watching the Black Friday stampede vids or hearing about that woman who pepper-sprayed everybody to get an Xbox 360. When I saw the "carb-guzzling sumo girl" jogging on the sidewalk, I empathized with her from afar. But here I'm poking fun at the pandemic, not the individual.
I don't know, some of those statements sound pretty personal to me. Did you as a child perceive criticism? If so, how?

Muxel said:
Foxx said:
I think it's emotional, but that you're looking for it in your intellectual center. You may "think" it's absurd, but "feel" that you're right.
Yeah. I went in intellectual circles rather than exploring the emotional route. Reading back now, it sounds a bit too cerebral for my taste. (I usually fancy a heavy helping of emotion in my posts.) I defiantly "feel" I'm right a lot, but God Prime Creator 6th Density knows how many times I've been proven wrong on this forum.
Why does that statement concern you so much if they're not true?

Muxel said:
I dunno Foxx, but the fact that I'm having to justify not having any problems regarding women is ridiculous! :cry: I don't want to defend any little I's à la self-importance, but I gotta set the record straight or else this will haunt me on the forum.
So it sounds like you're concerned with what other think of you. What do you think of yourself?

Muxel said:
Foxx said:
Remember what I said about feelings of self-dissatisfaction?
Self-dissatisfaction would be a symptom of self-importance wouldn't it? About emotional trauma...it can't be rejection because I've been single all my life...can't be bullying because it was a boy and I've mostly resolved that one...90% of the girls I've met were nice...can't be my mom because that only resulted in rebelliousness...but yes I do "feel" the emotion within me when I react to posts, and if I follow that thread far enough I'll hit the answer. Gimme a little time...
It can be uncomfortable to realize that how we view ourselves isn't how others view us. You may want to review the above situations in bold as they may lead to the root of the issue. Why did you rebel from your mom?

Muxel said:
Foxx said:
I really genuinely think that you're trying to gain some ground in The Work and, from my perspective, it sounds like you're still lying to yourself with some regularity, which is why I'm giving you this reflection :)
And I'm grateful for it. I try to keep an open mind when it comes to any mirror of myself. Some mirrors get me worked up, and I'd have to go cool off before thinking about it.
This is not unusual. The thing to remember is that if it works you up, more than likely it because "it's" angry at being seen.

Muxel said:
I'm 6'4" and remember feeling pretty awkward about this at times. Eventually I realized that it was something I had no control over (aside from exercises to increase coordination), and stopped worrying about it - it's not like we have the power to change our height.
Did you stop worrying (as in letting go) about it or start to push it away/ignore it?

Muxel said:
Jesus, Hildegarda, can I do anything right? I don't remember saying any of those things. If you twisted my words even more, I'd have been talking about Obama. I really didn't need that, not when I'm trying to work out some issues with myself at the moment.
Perhaps if you can relate how you currently feel to how others feel when you make light of their situation, it will lead to a bit more compassion for them. That's usually how it seems to work - when we close ourselves off from our own emotions, we project that same spirit of uncaring and contempt onto others.

edit: fixed quote tags
 
dannybananny said:
Did you did some sport for professionally, semi-professionally?

What on Earth does whether or not someone gets PAID for a sport have to do with this?

I fought 6', 200+ lb men wearing 30-40 lbs of plate armor, with a broadsword, when I was in my late teens, all the way into my 30's. Never got paid a dime, but I'm now over 50 and can probably still bench press Muxel ;)

What you say is partly true, because it s not always the case, there are some very skinny people that can also lift heavy weights that are heavier than what an much larger men can lift, but it also has to do with training, genetics without practice is nothing, an not all women are so strong in Russia or everywhere else, it s a generalization.

Yes, which is why I said "on average" On average women from cultures that developed in the Netherlands, Iceland, the Alps, Czechoslovakia, etc. are the largest women in the world. They're taller, heavier, and often physically stronger than the AVERAGE men from cultures in Asia, the Middle East, South America, etc. Of course there are exceptions...to everything, especially genetics, but I was discussing the possibility of this girl having genetics that are NOT the exception in various cultures that breed some big, strong women.

Maybe you should really do some research before you just start randomly disagreeing with those who have?

Here, let me get you started....find the big women:
_http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/height-chart.shtml

It doesn t mean that she won t found but is this attractive to normal human:

"Normal Human?" Really? :rolleyes:

Not so much as it s been spilled for racial superiority because women didn t fight , except Amazon women who did.

Again your ignorance about my ancestors is showing. Nordic women often fought right along side the men. Women could (and did) choose to be "Shieldmaidens" (foot solders) who fought with the "Shieldmen" in battle. Whether or not one was a fighter was a choice open to both women and men in the cultures I'm referring to. Google the "Battle of Brávellir" and go from there if you really want to understand why what you're saying sounds kinda silly to a Norsewoman... 'cause we've been fighters for centuries.

And what s the difference between "skinny" (not mentioning your judgment of people in this sentence, and probably you re a person who gives a much deal to psychical strength which is in the concept of work totally unimportant, but never mind) bureaucrat

A skinny bureaucrat is not likely to have a very good understanding of sports training, at least not weight lifting. I don't understand exactly what you mean by "much deal to physical strength?" Whether or not physical strength is important to "the concept of work" depends entirely on what a soul came here to do? I've been physically attacked by large, angry men, more than once, and they've all gone to jail.. and I'm still here. This would not be the case if I wasn't physically strong. If I wasn't as physically strong (and better trained) than the men who attacked me, I would have been raped/killed long ago. So yeah, physical strength is VERY important to women who've chosen the path I have.

Does it matter if Teachers, Healers, etc. are physically strong? No, I don't think so. They need to be healthy, and their meatsuits need to be well tuned, but they don't need to be able to lift the back end of a Buick to teach a class, write a book, or mix some herbs. The people who are here to protect the Teachers, Healers, etc. had better be physically strong .....very physically strong, or they're libel to wind up very physically dead.

I do realize I could be projecting here, but I think that girl MIGHT be one of us. Her great physical strength and dedication, her instinctive knowledge of the fuel her body needs despite what society says, and just her general attitude in the interview, all leads me to believe she might have come with a purpose, and that purpose requires her to be physically strong.

Do you think coach knows better?

Yes, if the coach has actually done what he's coaching (as opposed to the skinny bureaucrat who hasn't)
 
anart said:
I hate to burst your "I'm so special" bubble, Muxel, but 5'11" isn't unusually tall. I'm 5'11" - and I'm female.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have to ask (if you don't mind?) what is your genetic heritage?
 
Jesus, Hildegarda, can I do anything right?

Perhaps if you can relate how you currently feel to how others feel when you make light of their situation, it will lead to a bit more compassion for them. That's usually how it seems to work - when we close ourselves off from our own emotions, we project that same spirit of uncaring and contempt onto others.


I hope so too. Muxel, you might want to reread Laura's message until it fully sinks in. As far as I can see, everyone in this thread is being very, very patient with what you are saying. I honestly can't see you acting like this in front of your friends or strangers and being still met by them where you are.
 
Muxel said:
I've always been thin, prone to being blown away by the wind.

OK, so you're physically weak, despite the fact that you're of average height for a man...not short. This still leads me right back to my original question, are you intimidated by a 13 year old girl who could most likely (according to your description of yourself) toss you around like a sack of potatoes?
 
dannybananny said:
...because women didn t fight , except Amazon women who did.

Slightly off the topic but examples of women who fought in wars:

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1993/spring/women-in-the-civil-war-1.html

http://esask.uregina.ca/entry/aboriginal_peoples_and_the_world_wars.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shieldmaiden

added: one more for good measure. See the Women At War section:

http://www.medievalwarfare.info/
 
Guardian said:
"Normal Human?" Really? :rolleyes:

yeah. Not only dannybananny gets to decide what's normal for humanity, but, the unsuspecting humanity must conform to his idea of normality or else.

I do realize I could be projecting here, but I think that girl MIGHT be one of us. [..] leads me to believe she might have come with a purpose, and that purpose requires her to be physically strong.

Projecting is an inevitable thing. And, sometimes the lesson may not be in stopping projecting fully but in observing your projections and realizing what they tell you about yourself, where you are in life and how you approach it.

This kind of situation is always a perfect litmus test. It is so easy to relate to, and trips up enough stereotypes and sore spots to generate strong opinions. The real question is, what do those opinions tell about those opining them? :)
 
I concur with anart. I am 6' and I always felt that I was kind of short or barely average.

I do not get your "having to look down when talking to most people" Muxel, you are kidding us, right ? I've never noticed that I have to look down on people.
 

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