The WRONG WAY to attempt the Paleo Diet

The past couple of weeks have given me enough to deal with, but it has become a serious issue at this point and I've chosen to post it.

On February 9 about 4am I had to go to the emergency room because I thought my heart was in too much pain to tolerate and actually found myself in tears as I rested my head on my friend's shoulder. When I got to ER the nurses gave me an electrocardiogram and I waited for the doctor to come in, and he said, "Looks like it's all clear in there so there's really nothing to worry about. You're fine." That was quite a relief and I explained my theory for the pain was too much caffeine intake (although 2-4 cups of black tea per day couldn't really give me that much problems could they? It never did anything to me before but I knew it wasn't exactly healthy to need it everyday anyway, especially when I got the odd twitch in my arms or back of my neck). The doctor advised taking tylenol as I reduced my caffeine to zero and so far it's helped me cope with the pain, to a degree cause it's still there.

So, after a few days I gradually went down on the caffeine and have not taken any sources of caffeine since (except decaf tea which has a very low amount). Yet, the pain persisted! More guesswork. Question: is the paleo diet doing this to me? I've become so much more invloved with it eating meat from farmer's markets and using beef fat to cook my pork or steak. But I don't really know if my body is well adjusted enough to handle it (especially considering I haven't taken any digestive enzymes). Although I'm still taking enough magnesium and drinking plenty of distilled water along with a pinch or two of sea salt.

Next, came an even bigger scare when I woke up in the middle of the night around 3am on Sunday Feb.19 I cooded up some bacon that I got from the farmer's market the morning before that night and remember he said that they fed the pig soybean/grain. My guess is that when I woke up Sunday night - and felt the same pain I got the first time this all happened - it has something to do with an immune response to the inflammatory effects of fat from soybean-fed / grain-fed anmials. Or is it just the paleo diet?

Anyway, long story coming to an end... in order to evaluate properly the origin of the pain I'm going to see my family doctor tomorrow morning and see exactly what is going on with some blood tests and so forth. In the meantime, it was suggested by two other people I've talked to on facebook that I should continue taking the tylenol (which does help mostly) along with some DMSO plus Boswellia Seratta supplememts. They do their job quite well but, even with my tests scheduled for tomorrow I'm still in the dark about what's going on with me, and I don't want to keep putting up with this pain anymore because it's scaring the hell out of me everyday.... I need a little more than just "you're okay and will be fine soon." The truth is it hurts a lot more in my mind than it does in my chest.

Thanks for reading. Hope to read about what you all may think soon.

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

Hi CelticWarrior, tylenol is terrible for your liver - truly bad. I'd avoid it at all costs. Naproxin is a safer (slightly) pain killer. Why aren't you taking digestive enzymes? In pretty much every thread on the high fat diet, digestive enzymes are stressed because they are so important. I can't give you any real medical advise, but it sounds like you might not be following the general directions of the paleo diet. What reading have you done on it? Do you understand the basic concepts? Getting blood work done sounds like a good idea, across the board, but if you don't understand why you're eating the way you're eating (which is what I'm concerned about since you're not even taking digestive enzymes) then it might be a rough doctor's visit when the doctor throws the standard american diet guidelines at you.

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

Could the pain be muscle cramping in your chest?

CelticWarrior said:

Although I'm still taking enough magnesium and drinking plenty of distilled water along with a pinch or two of sea salt.

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Okay, you have taken care of those. Low magnesium and dehydration can lead to cramps.

Are you taking (Acetyl-) L-Carnitine? I had cramping a few times in my low-carb diet, and (if I remember right) taking a couple doses of L-Carnitine helped.

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

Hi CelticWarrior, Like anart mentioned, digestive enzymes are really helpful when on this diet and especially ones with ox bile. You're probably already going to get your potassium levels checked tomorrow, but it may be a good idea to mention they test for that too, just in case.

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

anart said:

Hi CelticWarrior, tylenol is terrible for your liver - truly bad. I'd avoid it at all costs. Naproxin is a safer (slightly) pain killer. Why aren't you taking digestive enzymes? In pretty much every thread on the high fat diet, digestive enzymes are stressed because they are so important. I can't give you any real medical advise, but it sounds like you might not be following the general directions of the paleo diet. What reading have you done on it? Do you understand the basic concepts? Getting blood work done sounds like a good idea, across the board, but if you don't understand why you're eating the way you're eating (which is what I'm concerned about since you're not even taking digestive enzymes) then it might be a rough doctor's visit when the doctor throws the standard american diet guidelines at you.

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From what I remember, the first thing that was advised to you upon partaking on this diet, was to eliminate gluten and dairy. That being your main focus and adjusting to that before advancing any further. You are still eating bread and a lot of other stuff that is counter-productive if you are trying to get healthy at the same time. This coupled with the fact that you are trying to go high fat/moderate protein isn't good. Not sure if this has anything to do with your chest pains and I'm sorry to hear that cutting out the caffeine isn't working out for you. I thought it was a one time event and not continuous.

Because at this point, from what you've told me, (we know each other IRL) - is you still get headaches and cravings. I believe this might be indicative of Candida.

You might want to read up on that, if you haven't already. The thread also provides some good guidelines on what to eat and avoid, at least as a transition phase before low carb.

Candida - The Silent Epidemic

Maybe a good starting point would be to read the Ultramind Solution first? Or is that too outdated at this point.

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

If you are increasing your intake of meat and fat without decreasing your carbs and eliminating grains and dairy entirely, you are not doing the paleo diet, you are simply indulging yourself without knowledge and that is dangerous. A little false knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all.

Plus, you were not being entirely honest in your post above, as revealed by Turgon, so I really wonder about your agenda here?

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

Laura said:

If you are increasing your intake of meat and fat without decreasing your carbs and eliminating grains and dairy entirely, you are not doing the paleo diet, you are simply indulging yourself without knowledge and that is dangerous. A little false knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all.
Plus, you were not being entirely honest in your post above, as revealed by Turgon, so I really wonder about your agenda here?

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I think that's the crux. Going into it without knowing about it, and not understanding signs and symptoms and being able to deal with it effectively. The transition (for me) was hard enough going high fat/moderate protein while detoxing and going gluten/dairy free, I can only imagine if you are still eating grains and havent detoxed.

CW, you've got the benefit of knowing people on this diet. Instead of going full steam ahead, and then saying it might be the diet because you arent doing it properly and having symptoms, try focusing on one step first.

That, and Willpower is what you will need to eliminate gluten and dairy.

:)

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

I don't know what's causing your heart/chest pain. But if you're still eating high carbs and especially grains, at the same time as increasing your fat intake (and perhaps your protein intake somewhat), in my opinion that's similar to playing "Russian roulette." There's more fat in your system that can be damaged/become toxic and lots of glycation happening from the carbs and grains on top of that. This is NOT good.

Re: Heart pain: Paleo Diet OR Immune Reaction

Actually, the symptoms sound like a bunch of stuff I went through years ago when two things were happening: eating carbs was making me sick (mainly grains) and they were triggering insulin which was affecting my heart and it became way more obvious when also eating meats/fats. So, of course, the doctors and everyone told me it was meat/fat, to cut that out. So, I did. Nothing changed, the pain was still there and the palpitations. Plus, I was having horrible reflux at night when I went to bed. So, the doctor diagnosed hiatus hernia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiatus_hernia) and started me on medications, had me sleeping practically sitting up, taking pain meds, etc. THEN, my liver kinda quit. By this time, I knew the doctors were killing me so instead of going to the doctor at this point, I went on a strict fast, drinking only distilled water for about a week.

All of this sort of thing continued to go on, back and forth, up and down, misery and suffering for years... until I discovered Atkins back in 1995, 96 or thereabouts. It sure made a huge difference to cut carbs to almost nothing. I realized then that fat was NOT the guilty party, nor was meat. As long as I had no carbs, I had no problems, no pain, no palpitations, no reflux, nothing. Of course, that was the early Atkins that included dairy so it wasn't perfect. And I would go back to low carbs (with dairy) every time I got sick but only got somewhat better. It wasn't until the recent years with all the research and experimenting we've done that I realized what the keys really are: very low carbs, NO dairy and definitely NO grains, at all, ever, in ANY form. As far as I'm concerned, "grains" includes dried peas and beans, rice, corn, and so on. It's not just the gluten, it's the anti-nutrients.

So, the lesson is: unless you do the whole thing, don't do anything. And there IS a way to work into it gradually, but it involves eliminating all grains FIRST and forever.

I was going to say that it sounds like hiatal hernia as I suffered from it. After cutting out gluten of all types, I haven't had any problems with it. Going with a high fat/low carb (almost nothing) has really helped.

Something else to think about; when on a high carb diet, it just about turns off your hydrochloric acid in your stomach. Taking the enzymes is very important, but so is trying Betaine HCI. I found that just eating a few carbs every so often can set off the feeling of a tightness in my chest at times so I make sure that I take one of these if I'm going to eat any carbs. For you, maybe you need ox bile, everyone's different, but you won't know these things unless you read up about it and then be ready to try what has worked for others.

Actually, if you are going to do the paleo diet, you really need to READ THE ENTIRE THREAD on Life Without Bread. Then, read the books discussed, at least Primal Body, Primal Mind and Life Without Bread. There's a reason that Laura says over and over and over again to NOT do anything unless you understand why you are doing it and how to do it.

CelticWarrior said:

still taking enough magnesium and drinking plenty of distilled water along with a pinch or two of sea salt.

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For about six months last year I drank only distilled water to which I added Himalayan salt. I came to the conclusion that distilled water is very aggressive in that because it is so pure, it has a huge capacity to dissolve any minerals in your body it comes in contact with, and they will be carried out in your urine. I concluded that distilled water actually leaches minerals – good and bad - out of the body. I stopped drinking it and almost immediately felt better. I now drink filtered water, which I find is more gentle on the body, and tastes better than distilled water.

anart said:

In pretty much every thread on the high fat diet, digestive enzymes are stressed because they are so important.

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Not to mention HCl, often found as Betaine HCI or Betaine Hydrochloride. The one I use is called Betaine Hydrochloride & Pepsin, and really helps my digestion. I wrote this before I read Nienna Eleuch's post also mentioning it.

Turgon said:

From what I remember, the first thing that was advised to you upon partaking on this diet, was to eliminate gluten and dairy. That being your main focus and adjusting to that before advancing any further. You are still eating bread and a lot of other stuff that is counter-productive if you are trying to get healthy at the same time.

Click to expand...

Indeed. And if you haven't eliminated completely all grains, gluten and dairy, then that's recipe for disaster. Just eating those three 'food' groups can cause a whole host of physical problems, the causes of which can be very difficult if not impossible to detect.

Hey, I've had a lot to think about in regards to all of your comments.

First it's fair to say that I've been making the best of what I can do with the transition to paleo diet. At least, I thought I did until after reading all of your posts. So, I've been doing myself more harm than I knew. It's actually fair to say that "simply indulging yourself without knowledge and that is dangerous" is exactly right.

I'm back from the doctor and yes most doctors will throw the typical american knowledge of what they think is best for your health. Although my doctor makes an effort unlike most to be more understanding of what my needs are based on reason and discussion. So, all he did was give me a check up, no blood tests, because he didn't think it was necessary knowing me so well. And he mentioned something that I had completely forgotten to include in part of what may be causing the chest pain afterall. STRESS.
I've had to deal with some very hard hitting emotionally packed stuff in regards to how my mother has been losing weight/and dealing with depression. I've even had to take her to emergency room myself just to see what's going on medically and psychologically. She is doing okay now but I remember the tension that built up before the ER visit with her, (and those moments of tension had the same feeling just a lot more brief than the way I'm experiencing things now, which is of course more pain. But, sufice it to say that these pains were associated with those short increases of tension. So STRESS is a factor and it may be that it could be playing a HUGE ROLE in all of this). But I won't rule out the mistakes I've made with approaching the paleo diet either.

Well, it seems after reviewing here...

@Anart: "Naproxin is a safer (slightly) pain killer."

I've taken boswellia sarata and it's doing okay on it's own so far, but Naproxin is something I'll... consider... if I need to take it. I know the effects of tylenol are not good at all, so it's gotta go now.

@Curious Richard: "Are you taking (Acetyl-) L-Carnitine? I had cramping a few times in my low-carb diet, and (if I remember right) taking a couple doses of L-Carnitine helped."

I'll give it a try Richard, thanks.

@Nienna Eluch: "trying Betaine HCI. I found that just eating a few carbs every so often can set off the feeling of a tightness in my chest at times so I['d] make sure that I take one of these if I'm going to eat any carbs. For you, maybe you need ox bile, everyone's different, but you won't know these things unless you read up about it and then be ready to try what has worked for others."

Ox bile is definately what I'm going to use but as for Betaine HCI I'm not sure if it will be effective but will be doing more research.

@Endymion: "I came to the conclusion that distilled water is very aggressive in that because it is so pure, it has a huge capacity to dissolve any minerals in your body it comes in contact with, and they will be carried out in your urine. I concluded that distilled water actually leaches minerals – good and bad - out of the body. I stopped drinking it and almost immediately felt better. I now drink filtered water, which I find is more gentle on the body, and tastes better than distilled water."

I may have to go back to drinking filtered water if this is the case about dissolving minerals... but I can't think of anything worse than to stay on filtered water (it's still got things in there that haven't been cleaned out that distilled can do). So, maybe reverse osmosis is better? I'm not sure. Some people even tell me they drink lake water and rain water. But, all in all it's probably a safe bet that keeping off the distilled water for the time being could help. Thanks for the info Endymion.

@Laura: "If you are increasing your intake of meat and fat without decreasing your carbs and eliminating grains and dairy entirely, you are not doing the paleo diet, you are simply indulging yourself without knowledge and that is dangerous. A little false knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all.
Plus, you were not being entirely honest in your post above, as revealed by Turgon, so I really wonder about your agenda here?"

What is honest is my goal to transition to the paleo diet. What is not honest is my approach, and as pointed out by Turgon, I have snuck in a few beaded foods (like crackers and crutons but nothing like having slices of bread or a huge plate of pasta everyday). So in my defense there may be a bit of exaggeration here as honest as I know. And as for milk, only in my tea like a teaspoon. But, drinking it like having a glass of milk, couldn't be more far off from the truth. It makes me sick and gives me headaches...moreover, i'm pretty much alergic to it because my throat gets red and raw and I get congested/stuffy in my nose so there is really no way that I would drink that stuff or any other dairy producs alike. However, it doesn't excuse the fact that I have not done my research as indepth as those of you who have posted here.
My agenda is not to be dishonest, just that I haven't done the 'hard' work involved, so I am at fault and feel ashamed about myself for that.

@Laura: "Nothing changed, the pain was still there and the palpitations. Plus, I was having horrible reflux at night when I went to bed. As long as I had no carbs, I had no problems, no pain, no palpitations, no reflux, nothing. As far as I'm concerned, "grains" includes dried peas and beans, rice, corn, and so on. It's not just the gluten, it's the anti-nutrients. So, the lesson is: unless you do the whole thing, don't do anything. And there IS a way to work into it gradually, but it involves eliminating all grains FIRST and forever."

The same experience, almost. I've had to sit up at night just to make the pain go away because I would wake up in the night with bad pain in my chest and thought why not when I'm exercising or doing any rigorous activity? Why do I get pain when I'm sitting on the couch reading or just sleeping in my bed at night? So, there's much to be done and first thing is first of course... zero carbs, and no grains at all - not even a tiny amount - which I won't have a problem with. Gradual, yes. I agree here. And after I have done more research and paid some justice to myself with all of the helpful information here and through talking with you and everyone who's knowledgable about paleo eating, I'm going to be well equipped to handle this way of healthy eating. Thanks :)

@ Turgon: "you've got the benefit of knowing people on this diet. Instead of going full steam ahead, and then saying it might be the diet because you aren't doing it properly and having symptoms, try focusing on one step first."

Well said my friend. I'll take it to heart. But again, I'm not blaming any problem associated with the diet. Just thought I would write down and put on here any possiblities and rule them out with your feedback. It almost seemed like you were offended but it's probably my imagination. It's gonna be a journey of learning for me, and you and I both know I have a long way to go (as usual LOL). Afterall... He who goes slow goes far.

Thanks to all who gave me the necessary feedback I was looking for today. I feel alieviated by the input and advice and will do my best to read up and get to work. It's my number 1 priority.

Being well on the diet will help a LOT with stress. It sure is a new experience for me to deal with some incredible stress without total collapse as would have been the case in previous years. If you feel physically better - and you will - you can handle almost anything.

Sorry we got a bit uptight, but with the krazy kops going after us for taking supplements, you never know when you might be being set up for a "sting" so to say.

There are a lot of feelings about whether what you are doing is good or bad, based on what you have been taught, when you undertake a diet which is not according to modern health recommendations or towing the Corporate line of lies.

Trust me, I am still dealing with this very issue on a daily basis.(Corporate line of lies)

I began taking Betaine Hydrochloride in 2007, as a last resort, to attempt a recovery from a paralyzing Stroke in 2005, which left my body's right side without the ability to move. By 2007, my BP was still high and the Doctor wanted to increase the drugs I was taking. I was able to walk and use my arm again, though today there is still limited feeling and circulation in the right side. The good news is that things continue to improve.

Still eating grains till 2009, I was a very active guy pr-stroke, the inactivity since the stroke was taking it's toll on my idea of what I should be like. Since 2007 I had reduced from busting out of size 40 pants to size 38, doing cleanses and finding the most effective ingredient in those cleanses to be the Betaine. I began taking 600 Mg 3 times a day with meals. I was concerned about what this would do to me, but the results I was getting was what kept me going. Oh, there was a lot of concern from family and friends, that I should abandon this "kick" I was on.

In 2009 I quit eating 95% or so, of the grains, dairy, etc., that I did. This had the biggest impact on my health, in a positive way, more so than all the Health Products I had tried since the stroke. The other good news is that I have been off all Dr prescribed medication for 22 months now. My BP is more normal now than it has been for over 30 years.

I have been in size 36 pants over 2 years now and my weight is stable at 90Kg. My body mass index is right in the slot. I also was taken for a man 45 years of age yesterday. I will be 60 this year, the year of the Dragon. I am employed on a full time basis as well.

Currently I am taking 400Mg of Betaine with meals. I reduced the dose last year from 600Mg. I have also been taking Hawthorn since I stopped taking the Statin drugs.

In Dec. 2011 I added Hemp Oil pills from "Manitoba Harvest", for the Omegas 3, 6 and 9. One note there, I had a brown spot on my left facial cheek from Sun damage which would get real dark if I went in the Sun. This spot has gone away. My skin is very clear now, which accounts for being seen as a 45 year old.

Oh yes, my hair has become more salt and pepper than white. It turned white after the stroke. The bald spot is also filling in again.

All in all, I feel much better than I have for years. That doesn't mean I can go back to grains, however. In fact eating that makes me feel bloated. I don't even like bread now.

The things I have found to work for me, may not work for everyone. This is just a brief glimpse into my life changes, but the changes people see in me is inspiring them to help them selves.

Be full of good courage.

Wayne