Session 4 March 2012

[Bluefyre]

Thank you for this session, the photo and all of the input from everyone.  It's good to hear from others that the diet/detox has increased their ability to think as I have been experiencing this as well, to my great delight.  It seems a lifetime of fog is beginning to lift.  I seem to be able to actually wade through much of the information without my mind glazing over!  At least another read is called for though.

[Merkabah]

Be careful what you believe, this person is dis-info!

[Merkabah]

laura enjoy all the money you have made, the lies and twisted complexities you shovel down peoples throats the past 12 years...

[Bo]

Be careful what you believe, this person is dis-info!

[Windmill knight]

Merkabah has been banned for trolling.

[Iron]

Not even the date the troll got right.
Laura's work goes way back more than 12 years.

[Graalsword]

12 would be around the year 2000, more or less the time of "Frank" leaving and the appearance of VB. Just noticed the coincidence, though maybe the guy has nothing to do with it.

[PopHistorian]

<<  A:  Revolution.  >>

After reading this, and all the responses (minus Merkabah), I feel much more hopeful -- a real difference that has persisted for days.  Despite the mix of happenings that are bound to be part of any revolution, there's just a rise in optimism that I feel.  Carefully keeping in mind that "utilizing knowledge" may be the key to surviving what's ahead. 

[Bear]

Ran into this book on Amazon while looking at others and thought I would mention it since looks like the book deals with viruses material in the genetic code and might have some useful information toward what was mentioned in this session.

Virolution by Frank Ryan

http://www.amazon.com/Virolution-Frank-Ryan/dp/0007315120/ref=wl_mb_hu_m_1_dp

Combining Darwin, the double helix, the genome project, and viruses to explain the last great mystery of evolution, this book is the product of Frank Ryan's decade of research at the frontiers of a new science called viral symbiosis, and the amazing revolution that it has had in these few years. Still the greatest breakthrough in biological science, Darwin's theory of evolution depended on steady variation of living things over time—but he was unable to explain how this variation occurred. Since publication of the Origin of Species, we have discovered three main sources for this variation—mutation, hybridization, and epigenetics. Then on February 12, 2001, the evidence for perhaps the most extraordinary cause of variation was simultaneously released by two organizations—the code for the entire human genome. Not only was the human genome unbelievably simple (only 10 times more complicated than a bacteria), but embedded in the code were large fragments that were derived from viruses—fragments that were vital to evolution of all organisms, and the evidence for a fourth and vital source of variation—viruses. As scientists begin to look for evidence of viral involvement in more and more processes, they have discovered that they are vital in nearly every case—and with this understanding comes the possibility of manipulating the role of the viruses to help fight a huge range of diseases.

[bngenoh]

The whole question of the role viruses play in evolution is fascinating. Have you heard of Symbiogenesis?

Symbiogenesis is the merging of two separate organisms to form a single new organism. The idea originated with Konstantin Mereschkowsky in his 1926 book Symbiogenesis and the Origin of Species, which proposed that chloroplasts originate from cyanobacteria captured by a protozoan.[1] Ivan Wallin also supported this concept in his book “Symbionticism and the Origins of Species." He suggested that bacteria might be the cause of the origin of species, and that species creation may occur through endosymbiosis. Today both chloroplasts and mitochondria are believed, by those who ascribe to the endosymbiotic theory, to have such an origin.

In Acquiring Genomes: A Theory of the Origins of Species, biologist Lynn Margulis argued later that symbiogenesis is a primary force in evolution. According to her theory, acquisition and accumulation of random mutations are not sufficient to explain how inherited variations occur; rather, new organelles, bodies, organs, and species arise from symbiogenesis. [2] Whereas the classical interpretation of evolution (the modern evolutionary synthesis) emphasizes competition as the main force behind evolution, Margulis emphasizes cooperation.[3] She argues that bacteria along with other microorganisms helped create the conditions that we require for life, such as oxygen. Margulis believes that these microorganisms make up a major component in Earth’s biomass and that they are the reason current conditions on earth are maintained. She also believes that the DNA in the cytoplasm of animal, plant, fungal and protist cells, rather than resulting from mutations, resulted from genes from bacteria that became organelles. She claimed that bacteria are able to exchange genes more quickly and more easily, and because of this, they are more versatile, which is why life was able to evolve so quickly.[4]

This article was fascinating, especially in the light of the view of Biology as technology. Life really seems to be entirely mathematical, Nils Aall Barricelli's work on bionumeric evolution comes to mind. It really seems like the Universe is an engineer.

[PopHistorian]

bngenoh, surprisingly, I had heard about most of this in high-school biology in the 70s.  It seemed very strange to me at the time that organelles such as mitochondria in our bodies might be the "remnants" of a merger with other life forms.  Then, I never heard another thing about it until today! 

[tom32071]

Good Session! Thanks for sharing it, and the pic also. 

[bngenoh]

bngenoh, surprisingly, I had heard about most of this in high-school biology in the 70s.  It seemed very strange to me at the time that organelles such as mitochondria in our bodies might be the "remnants" of a merger with other life forms.  Then, I never heard another thing about it until today!

Well, that just shows you how much the public school system has degenerated, i never heard anything about Symbiogenesis in high school.

Here's Lynn Margulis on Symbiogenesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlhW12dGfFk
More on microorganism communication, specifically bacteria: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate.html

Cooperation seems to be key in building any system with a high survivability. Networking is key, that is what life shows us.

[webglider]

The whole question of the role viruses play in evolution is fascinating. Have you heard of Symbiogenesis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiogenesis

Symbiogenesis is the merging of two separate organisms to form a single new organism. The idea originated with Konstantin Mereschkowsky in his 1926 book Symbiogenesis and the Origin of Species, which proposed that chloroplasts originate from cyanobacteria captured by a protozoan.[1] Ivan Wallin also supported this concept in his book “Symbionticism and the Origins of Species." He suggested that bacteria might be the cause of the origin of species, and that species creation may occur through endosymbiosis. Today both chloroplasts and mitochondria are believed, by those who ascribe to the endosymbiotic theory, to have such an origin.

In Acquiring Genomes: A Theory of the Origins of Species, biologist Lynn Margulis argued later that symbiogenesis is a primary force in evolution. According to her theory, acquisition and accumulation of random mutations are not sufficient to explain how inherited variations occur; rather, new organelles, bodies, organs, and species arise from symbiogenesis. [2] Whereas the classical interpretation of evolution (the modern evolutionary synthesis) emphasizes competition as the main force behind evolution, Margulis emphasizes cooperation.[3] She argues that bacteria along with other microorganisms helped create the conditions that we require for life, such as oxygen. Margulis believes that these microorganisms make up a major component in Earth’s biomass and that they are the reason current conditions on earth are maintained. She also believes that the DNA in the cytoplasm of animal, plant, fungal and protist cells, rather than resulting from mutations, resulted from genes from bacteria that became organelles. She claimed that bacteria are able to exchange genes more quickly and more easily, and because of this, they are more versatile, which is why life was able to evolve so quickly.[4]

 No I had never heard of this before.  This is so interesting.  Thank you!  I'm reading The Fifth Option, (I'm only on page 32), but somehow what I'm reading here in your post may connect at some point with the concepts in The Fifth Option.I just watched the video - really, really interesting: Thanks again.

quote from bngenoh:

Here's Lynn Margulis on Symbiogenesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlhW12dGfFk
More on microorganism communication, specifically bacteria:

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate.html

quote from bngenoh:

Cooperation seems to be key in building any system with a high survivability. Networking is key, that is what life shows us.

The more we learn about Nature, the more this proves to be true.


Edit=fixed first quote tag

[SeekinTruth]

Yes, the Lynn Margulis interview was very interesting. Thanks for the link, bngenoh. Also the SOTT article by R. Joseph, "Extinction, Metamorphosis, Evolutionary Apoptosis, and Genetically Programmed Species Mass Death" was very good to review, as well. I've also read about several theories that posit cooperation playing a much more fundamental part in evolution than competition over the last couple of years -- a few of them here on the forum. And all these alternatives to orthodox Darwinian dogma are really much more tenable -- they certainly work out all the problems with the Darwinian dogma of random mutations and accidental beginnings, etc., giving a much more plausible role for natural selection and being able to explain the origin of species.

And these alternatives to Darwin go back to Darwin's time to Wallace and all through the 20th Century. Many have proposed punctuated evolution as an alternative to the Darwinian step by step, slow evolution for which no evidence has ever been found. And all of the alternatives also come much closer to how so much complexity and diversity could come about -- the Panspermia theories really go a long way in that direction, as well.