Cassiopaean Sandbox > What's on your mind
my parents crying
loreta:
--- Quote from: loreta on April 29, 2012, 03:01:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nienna Eluch on April 29, 2012, 02:54:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: loreta on April 29, 2012, 01:51:56 PM ---Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)
--- End quote ---
There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.
Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.
There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.
It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I think it is true. Thanks.
--- End quote ---
I read some links that you counsel to read (and I have to read much more) and YES, you are right. I was wrong, my perceptions are wrong. Those links are so clear that all my perceptions about sincerity are reverse. Now I really understand what you all mean. I am like a little kid who start to walk. Thank you very much.
Briseis:
--- Quote from: loreta on April 29, 2012, 07:48:22 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nienna Eluch on April 28, 2012, 08:35:53 PM ---Also, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."
--- End quote ---
What Gurdjieff mean with this statement? In what context? I tough to be sincere is a good attitude. Now I am lost. Why it is a weakness to be sincere with everyone? Can I read something about it?
Thank you.
--- End quote ---
It's just not very protective of the emerging self to lay it out on the altar when it is fragile and vulnerable.
One can be sincere within and remain well guarded from without. I wish that didn't sound like a cliche'. I don't claim anything beyond what I understand, which is limited.
"Sincerity with everyone" to me, at my current awareness, is kind of dangerous, even brash. Not well advised. Others here can explain this better than me!
Daenerys:
--- Quote from: Niena Eluch ---, as Gurdjieff said, "Sincerity with everyone is a weakness."
--- End quote ---
This has always reminded me of two things.
-My ex psychopath used to always say that people will tell you in the first ten minutes of meeting them exactly how to hurt them if you know what to look for. He said they cannot help but let you know what they need the most, if they think you can deliver it on any level.
- In certain sales training you are taught how to find the closing angle not only by the type of objection, but how quickly and emotionally the objection is made.
Nienna:
--- Quote from: loreta on May 02, 2012, 08:20:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: loreta on April 29, 2012, 03:01:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nienna Eluch on April 29, 2012, 02:54:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: loreta on April 29, 2012, 01:51:56 PM ---Ok, I understand in the context you all give, about sincerity. But is it applicable when, in my evolution, I try to be sincere with my parents, for example? Or my husband or anyone very near my life? I know that they can be part of this system that fight against you. I always thought that sincerity is a sort of protection, I now see that it is an illusion thinking this. Again, if my parents wanted to make me follow something that is against my view, I was sure that be sincere with them was the better way to take. I will read about this subject more profoundly. My idea of sincerity is that sincerity is the other face of hypocrisy. (I think that sometimes you have to be sincere utilizing diplomacy.)
--- End quote ---
There is good and there is bad, and there is the specific situation that determines which is which.
Along with finding threads that Laura has suggested you look at, you may want to look at the links that were provided by truth seeker about strategic enclosure and external consideration. In the external consideration link, it also talks about internal consideration.
There are times to be sincere and times not to be sincere. If you are only trying to make others, who are not ready, to see things the way you see them, that is internal consideration. Discerning why you are doing something is part of the Work.
It is not up to us to change others, or to make them see things as we do. Also, telling other people the way we think could make things much more difficult for both parties.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I think it is true. Thanks.
--- End quote ---
I read some links that you counsel to read (and I have to read much more) and YES, you are right. I was wrong, my perceptions are wrong. Those links are so clear that all my perceptions about sincerity are reverse. Now I really understand what you all mean. I am like a little kid who start to walk. Thank you very much.
--- End quote ---
We are all little kids learning to walk, there is always so much more to learn. So don't feel alone in this. Especially when just starting out on this journey. But learning the lessons is what matters, and you seem sincere in doing this. :)
loreta:
This concept of sincerity is very interesting. It makes me think about all the situations when I have been attacked because I was sincere. Surely I have a lot to learn in that sense. Also, in my family, sincerity was perceive under two feelings: it was very important, for my father, and it was a problem, for my mother. I remember that my mother told me many times not to be so sincere when looking for a job. My sincerity was a problem to find a job. My mother used to say: be a little more hypocritical. :rolleyes: Maybe she was right. The last job I had was the worst: my sincerity was the cause of very hard attacks from the other women. So far I had to leave the job where 2 or 3 women were a little psychopaths. But the reason of being attacked was my sincerity. Now I start to understand this concept. Thank you!
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