Dream of Ex

[truth seeker]

Sometimes former 'romantic' relationships gone awry >can< turn into just friendship.

I 'm not sure about that. It may be possible if both people are committed to the Work but as it currently stands, when one is attempting the Work and the other is asleep, nothing but hurt can result from this. By hurt, I'm not only referring to feelings but also to the fact that it can prevent the other person from learning their own lessons.

What if you were just honest with her about how you are feeling now (confused?), how you perceive how you were with her in the past, how you think you have changed - a lot of what you wrote here!  Can you write while feeling compassion for yourself and for her, and for all of us who have been muddling through life as sleeping machines?

If we can believe what she says, it seems the past is pretty much water under the bridge for her. Paragon's need to set things right is his program, not hers. He's striving to somehow make this okay for him - his feelings of guilt are making him feel it's necessary to 'confess'. This is not about her, it's about him.

What could this hurt to just be open with her for the sake of becoming human beings, with a 'history' together, actually possibly learning from and healing from the past?  Are you willing to hear her side of it?  Are you willing to take the chance of never hearing from her again? - if that happens, it was not from you pushing her away but from her clear choice.

It takes two to tango. If she's fine with what happened in the past, and from what Paragon says, it seems she is, then why go against her free will?

You could use this situation as an opportunity to Work - observe your reactions, learn about yourself, have compassion on both her and yourself - since it sounds like you regret some things you did, try to express the situation to her using the ideas of the Work.

That's Paragon's task and his alone. It doesn't concern her. Really caring about someone means accepting them for who they are right now and allowing them to live as they wish. The same way we want to be accepted for who we are and to be allowed to live as we please.

edit: clarity

[anart]

I know actions count more than words, but I have a real difficult time understanding why I should break off all contact. I think she might be hurt by that.

It's very simple. You want the food that is her attention.  You don't want to give up that food. Her well-being doesn't even vaguely factor into it for you - at all.  It's all about you.

[Paragon]

And I think I made a wee mistake by suggesting that when she messaged me on FB recently, that she called me by an affectionate name we used to share. What I meant to say is that she brought that name up by referencing it to an actual location, whereby she found out and had to tell me about it. Kinda silly but it was very cute. So yeah I don't know what tha was about. A friendly hello, what you up to?

That's what she may genuinely think as most of us truly believe that our actions are harmless. The road to hell and all that.

From my experience, this is part pf the stuff that comes up with these types of situations - the little in jokes that only the two of you know about. Like some kind of secret club. These types of things make us feel special, that we share a bond with them that no one else has. Basically they're little hooks.

So it was just a general hello, as she intended, but for me, I saw it as an attempt to get back in touch again somewhat, with the general feeling that something may come of it?

I don't understand the little 'hook' though. What is the purpose of this? If it was just a hello what you up to thing, couldn't you just say hey how you doing?

Perhaps I'm not actually listening to what you are saying truth seeker. It seems like I cannot fathom that she Hasn't moved on when in my experience, it seems like she has. There is a disconnect here that is very disconcerting. In any case, it is bad for both of us to remain friends on FB? What do I tell her if I unfriend her? I really find the idea of unfriending her, Very difficult. It is a source of great resistance within me. I want to know how she really feels before I just break off all contact forever.

Apologies if I was unclear. What seems to be happening is that she's giving mixed messages. If I understood you correctly, she didn't want to meet up but at the same time wants to maintain contact. This may be the source of your confusion.

Yes, it confuses me why she still wants to maintain contact, for me it is important to understand this in the context of the work.

I can't tell you what to do regarding fb. I also wouldn't classify it as 'bad'. What I will say is that things like email, texts, social networking can still be a source of feeding - it's still a connection whether physical or otherwise that leaves one open to general law. You may want to write (in a journal) about why you feel resistant to completely breaking this connection.

I just noticed Anarts post, and in relation to that, I guess I base my self worth and self esteem on her. Even if I had managed to 'get over' her, I probably Subconsciously done things that would please her, or make her happy, even though obviously she isn't in my life physically. Like FB updates relating ambiguously to some event we shared even though I'll posit that it's of my own will. She seems to be in my psyche and as strange as it sounds, it feels like I am controlled by the ghost of her in the past. A lot of things in my life could be related to this dynamic.

I just feel like she was the only one who ever accepted me for who I really was. And I felt guilty for not realising this and treating her like real rubbish. Only after had we broke up, did I realise what a gift of spirit she was, she brightens up everyones day.

You may also want to take note that you seem to be basing what you do on what she says/does. By doing that, you're avoiding taking responsibility for your actions. I understand that on some level, you may be feeling that you're leaving her again but in reality, it doesn't seem as if you ever really let go - the only thing that changed is the form it took.

Yes. This could be true. I don't know what to do with myself though as probably everything I do, Is based on this projection of her in my mind. How do I know this for sure though? What process do I have to do in order to understand if it's true? That's actually quite a scary thought. It ties in with concepts from the wave and 4d STS.

Leaving a relationship doesn't mean that you're abandoning them (in this specific instance), what you're really doing is acting in favor of your destiny and unbeknownst to you at this point, her own as well.

I could be helping her by myself unfriending her? So that blocking off all Communication helps the both of us? She will wonder why I cut off all ties and In her head may associate that with, well I dunno.

I know actions count more than words, but I have a real difficult time understanding why I should break off all contact. I think she might be hurt by that.

Sounds like a 'be nice' program at work. It also sounds as if you're using this program to either avoid the very uncomfortable feeling you may have towards ending it. What is it that you're truly afraid to give up?

edit: added a sentence for clarity

Her, I guess. Afraid that if I let go, I have nothing real of my self.

[Paragon]

I know actions count more than words, but I have a real difficult time understanding why I should break off all contact. I think she might be hurt by that.

It's very simple. You want the food that is her attention.  You don't want to give up that food. Her well-being doesn't even vaguely factor into it for you - at all.  It's all about you.

Oh gosh, this is hard to take. I know it's true at some deep level of me, but it's been buried far down.

It's quite funny actually, I remember talking to her about us, and she kept saying it's all about me and how I feel. She was quite the mirror. I miss her for that. That's a big part of why I loved her, that ability to show me who I really was. We coulda forged a good relationship with regards to the work, or so I like to think.

[truth seeker]

So it was just a general hello, as she intended, but for me, I saw it as an attempt to get back in touch again somewhat, with the general feeling that something may come of it?

I don't understand the little 'hook' though. What is the purpose of this? If it was just a hello what you up to thing, couldn't you just say hey how you doing?

I understand your need to try and make sense of her actions but in the end it does little good and ends up with us going round and round. What it seems you're really looking for is confirmation, however small, that she still cares for you. You're looking for permission to keep doing what you're doing.

Yes, it confuses me why she still wants to maintain contact, for me it is important to understand this in the context of the work.

This isn't about her and what she does or doesn't do. This is about you. What do you want to do?

I just noticed Anarts post, and in relation to that, I guess I base my self worth and self esteem on her. Even if I had managed to 'get over' her, I probably Subconsciously done things that would please her, or make her happy, even though obviously she isn't in my life physically. Like FB updates relating ambiguously to some event we shared even though I'll posit that it's of my own will. She seems to be in my psyche and as strange as it sounds, it feels like I am controlled by the ghost of her in the past. A lot of things in my life could be related to this dynamic.

If you haven't read the Redirect thread, you may want to do so asap.

I just feel like she was the only one who ever accepted me for who I really was. And I felt guilty for not realising this and treating her like real rubbish. Only after had we broke up, did I realise what a gift of spirit she was, she brightens up everyones day.

Then you're not seeing her objectively. You're viewing her through your own subjective lens that demonizes you and places her on a pedestal. Both views are a lie.

Yes. This could be true. I don't know what to do with myself though as probably everything I do, Is based on this projection of her in my mind. How do I know this for sure though? What process do I have to do in order to understand if it's true? That's actually quite a scary thought. It ties in with concepts from the wave and 4d STS.

Begin where you are, it's all any of us can do. Start with the writing exercises, they'll bring some clarity.

I could be helping her by myself unfriending her? So that blocking off all Communication helps the both of us? She will wonder why I cut off all ties and In her head may associate that with, well I dunno.

See above. If you haven't yet, you may want to read the big 5 books or at least any of the corresponding threads. A good place to look as well is at your own childhood and anyone who may have cut ties with you in the past.

Her, I guess. Afraid that if I let go, I have nothing real of my self.

That's a lie your predator tells you to keep you in entropy. By learning to take responsibility for yourself and by working on yourself you may find there is more to you than you realize.

[Menna]

"Perhaps I'm not actually listening to what you are saying truth seeker. It seems like I cannot fathom that she Hasn't moved on when in my experience, it seems like she has. There is a disconnect here that is very disconcerting. In any case, it is bad for both of us to remain friends on FB? What do I tell her if I unfriend her? I really find the idea of unfriending her, Very difficult. It is a source of great resistance within me. I want to know how she really feels before I just break off all contact forever."

Bolded #

1) You say it seems like she has moved on - she just messaged you on FB referencing an inside thing that only you two would understand. She has not 100% moved on

2) Why do you feel obligated to tell her that you are going to unfriend her? You feel like you have hurt her in the past so you want everything to be candy and bunny rabbits now in the present when this illusion is stopping your personal growth...DONT TELL HER ANYTHING YOU HAVENT BEEN WITH HER FOR TWO YEARS TIME TO HEAL YOURSELF AND MOVE ON.

3) You just said at the start of the paragraph you cant fathom that she hasn't moved on you think she has (meaning that in your mind she has moved on). You asked her to meet up before and she said no (Meaning she doesn't want to meet you)...Well there ya go thats how she feels.

and if you are thinking well I asked her a year ago maybe something has changed. Then ask her again and be done with it.

Heres a great way to start your healing...Everytime you are alone and you start to go into fantasy land about her...Open your computer and perform EE it is offered online for free...Start there

Just read this -  "Like FB updates relating ambiguously to some event we shared even though I'll posit that it's of my own will." Another reason to leave facebook or unfriend her. If there is no way of her seeing your updates then you wont make these kind of updates to please her. This is another way you keep yourself in illusion. If you don't want to unfriend her then take a 6month break for FB deactivate your account you can always come back at any time if ...This way you do away with one BIG thing in your life that keeps you in illusion...You have to do something different in your life if you want a different result

"It's quite funny actually, I remember talking to her about us, and she kept saying it's all about me and how I feel. She was quite the mirror. I miss her for that. That's a big part of why I loved her, that ability to show me who I really was. We coulda forged a good relationship with regards to the work, or so I like to think."

You can do all this without her and improve in terms of the work without her. You said you coulda forged a good relationship regarding the work. Well look what your relationship is doing now its hindering your success or if you use it - it could be a platform for you to build on. If you want to look at it this way you could use this to become serious and look back on your relationship as the thing that pushed you forward in the work to better yourself OR you could stay in your bag of mixed emotions and illusions. A different perspective will be a big help I still think about my X but from a more objective view and to get to that point i needed to CUT OFF CONTACT AND DO THE WORK (Can you study for an important test with noise blasting in the backround???)...YOUR CHOICE

[melatonin]

Just my 2 cents.
Whos to say she has been the victim here? You may well both be feeding off each other. She could be 'playing you' pretending to be friendly/intrested, when really she just wants to be part of the game again.
Maybe she plays a similar role with other guys, and has recently split and needs that 'high' again?

I know ive been in very toxic relationships before with women, where at the time i felt hard done by, but looking back i was a willing participant and needed the interaction and game-play just as much as they did. (On the outside it looked like its was just them that were the toxic one's, which wasnt true, as ive learnt since)

Edited - Last line, added 1 word to correct.

[bngenoh]

I just noticed Anarts post, and in relation to that, I guess I base my self worth and self esteem on her. Even if I had managed to 'get over' her, I probably Subconsciously done things that would please her, or make her happy, even though obviously she isn't in my life physically. Like FB updates relating ambiguously to some event we shared even though I'll posit that it's of my own will. She seems to be in my psyche and as strange as it sounds, it feels like I am controlled by the ghost of her in the past. A lot of things in my life could be related to this dynamic.

That is interesting, especially in light of The Eros Theme thread, specifically The Ghostly Lover. You may wanna check it out.