Esoterica > The Work

Emotional stiffening and Pure and Impure Emotions.

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Gonzo:
It's really hard to use our logic when the emotional mind is so engaged.  But if you imagine that a friend or colleague were telling you the same story, perhaps you might see it differently.  From a strictly rational perspective, try to consider why someone be should be responsible for how someone else feels about themselves. 

As well, perhaps you could consider whether feeling responsible for the thoughts and feelings that others have for themselves is a form of projection.  If this is the case, what can you learn from those projections, since they would really be about you and not the other person.

Aside from projection, concerning oneself with how other people are feeling is often a childhood skill acquired to ensure the child keeps certain people's feelings in a certain direction to ensure they are not rejected or harmed.

Gonzo

obyvatel:

--- Quote from: Jones on August 09, 2012, 04:22:02 PM ---The most immediate solution that comes to me is to give up taking responsibility for how others feel about themselves.  But that seems quite black and white.  So I'm a little confused here.

--- End quote ---

    In the specific situation that you narrated, the emotional reaction had nothing to do with you. You may have started replaying an old childhood drama thus making it about yourself, which was not reality. If we are able to keep our personal dramas out of the picture ( a tall order - I have not reached that stage yet), then we can respond appropriately to the reality of the situation - which in this case could have meant  lending a patient empathetic ear to what your step-daughter had to say. Other situations may require different responses - but the key I think is in realizing when we are projecting our own dramas into a situation. Self-observation, networking, writing exercises and knowledge input help us uncover our recurring personal dramas so we can catch them more frequently as they come up.

My 2 cents

Buddy:

--- Quote from: Jones on August 09, 2012, 04:22:02 PM ---But manipulation is very difficult to fight openly, and in my experience it can be very detrimental to even try.  Perhaps this is something that I learned quite early in life and perhaps here is my own contribution to me suppressing emotions.
--- End quote ---

I know what you mean. I either know of or have some horrendous emotional manipulators in my life. For the most hard-core cases, Gonzo is right about logic being useless. Some people even seem to have some kind of 'ultimate' leverage to use against a challenger anyway.


--- Quote from: Jones on August 09, 2012, 04:22:02 PM ---The most immediate solution that comes to me is to give up taking responsibility for how others feel about themselves.  But that seems quite black and white.  So I'm a little confused here.

--- End quote ---

For me, it depends on who it is and I agree with obyvatel here. On occasion I have simply sat with head slightly cocked to the side, eyes fully opened, watching their eyes and face and just listened, paying full attention to what is being communicated.

I've learned to be careful with acknowledging noises, though, because people generally don't seem to understand how someone can hear them out without either agreeing or disagreeing with them. If you disagree with them, they may accuse you of making them feel like nothing or like their pain is all their own fault. If you agree with them, it may come back on you later as an accusation of lying or betrayal or something.

alkhemst:
It might be that the grief and sadness was triggered by some early experience related to what happened to you as a child Jones. But the point is being an emotion, there's a disconnect when trying to pin point the event intellectually, because it's not a thought but a feeling. It's kind of like trying to teach yourself how to swim outside the water, while helpful its not ever going to be experienced until you let yourself get wet. It's hard I know, most of us have been subject to parenting that is oppossed to expressions of emotions from the moment we're born ie "control crying". And so, what choice did we have than to internalize our parents'  modifications of us? The way I understand it is that under the anger there's fear because the state of fear is a powerless place, so it's angers' job then to regain power and avoid being fearful. Or it might be just as well guilt here too. So under the fear has to be something we are afraid of feeling or we feel ashamed or guilty of being, and that could be the childhood experience, the one that was thwarted by not being able to experience the pure emotion then and there. Going back a few steps as you've mentioned the intellect can often be a great cover of the underlying anger, we can, with the intellect easily justify things and project blame outwards for instance. I reckon though Obyvatel hit the nail on the head by talking about body awareness, it's through connecting with our body, through EE for example that helps reconnect with feeling all these things.

threecaster:
A good friend of mine has some serious problems. PTSD from 'nam, and I think his heart Chakra may be nearly closed off.
He and spouse are on the rocks, with him blaming her for everything, because she has real trouble conforming to his expectations, and he's blaming her for those shortcomings. (The girl works really hard, runs the town's Charity Warehouse)

I'm trying to decide if I can help him with some kind words and maybe plant some seeds, but whew....It'd be a hard row to hoe, and I think he'd kick me out before letting me dig into his own self. But the more they fight, the more he only worries about his money.

Talented guy, very gentle, but I think he's stiffened up to the point, I fear he may break soon.

Jones: How you seem to percieve and interpret your emotional (re)actions jives greatly with where I used to be. IMO you are on the right path by "stepping out" of the drama so you can get a good look at things.

I often probe what aspects of the "Big Picture" are at work in any particular situation.

If someone offers you only two choices, this should set off bells. Some folks (as it sounds you are aware) are very good at hiding the fact they are trying to get you to make a choice, either of which is likely to go in only one direction.

Pressing their point against a higher, relevant source, or looking at "what are we ultimately trying to accomplish here" will offer you some insight (and some firm ground) upon which you can press Objective Inquires upon the person who is trying to steer things.

This releases you from the choice, and allows you to disarm the situation without getting any of the sticky on you that they were making, or hurting their feelings, or prevents feeding their selfish fires by eliminating implications or accusations.

Usually, selfish persons cannot fathom a Point Of View that orginates from Universal Love, and dialing in a facet relevant to their POV may be tricky, but you can try anyways.....

Smiles and Laughter Throughout Your Happy Home

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