mermaids

[kitty125]

yea,i laughed too when i heard about this new show called 'mermaids:the body found' that came on TV. i waited a whole week (which is forever in my opinion) to see this show. by the first 30 minutes i went from criticism to fascination. it theorized how a species of early humans/apes split off,some living near the water and some retreating into the forest. the ones near the water adapted over the years to the water and eventually started living IN the water. only half way through the show did they made it apparent that it was only a theory based on some stories throughout history and some evidence that conveniently got confiscated by some secret agency.according to statistics,less than %5 of the ocean has been explored,so,is it really possible that some odd species of 'ape fish' really live in our ocean or this this just some story meant to jump start the imagination?

Here is a link to the full video for anyone interested in watching it 
http://youtu.be/UfPWHPyU1u4

[lake_george]

Hello Kitty125,

I read a theory similar to this back in the 70s: Elaine Morgan wrote a book "The Descent of Woman".   You can find it on the web as the 'aquatic ape' theory.

http://www.primitivism.com/aquatic-ape.htm

Until recently when I found this forum and Laura's writings and am re-thinking everything, I have found the aquatic ape theory to make a lot of sense.

[ScottD]

I watched that show as well and although fascinating I think the biggest part I pulled out of it was the horrendous naval testing.  After the sonar bombardment and hearing the whales literally screaming my girlfriend was in tears and I was disgusted.  The other interesting thing was the 'Bloop' that could not be explained whether it was another marine animal or actual 'mermaids'.

[Bluestar]

While watching the first 1 hour,  I at first thought it to be a "performance" of the expert witnesses.  You know made for TV excitement.  I was horrified by the military experiments and hearing the marine mammals screaming.  All I could think of was how much suffering, it broke my heart.  (Just noticed ScottD's post)

The last 30 mins gave me a bit of insight that the story may have some merit.  The cave paintings being the key for me.  Also myths and legends hold more clues.  It would take more research to get more insight of which I do not have the available time for.  It was an interesting program and gave some food for thought.

[Radagast]

Thanks for bringing this up. This was fascinating program which gave me  a lot of food for thought, it was done quite well.

[bngenoh]

Quite fascinating, makes me go hmmm,

That Navy sonar test sounds like pure death. The whole setting with the US Navy and finding merpeople sounds a lot like the series "the man from atlantis." Curiously enough, the Atlanteans were said to be deep in genetic engineering themselves, connection? I don't know, just thinking out loud.

On the forum, we have this thread: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,24414.0.html
Sott: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/245851-Were-mermaids-real-New-theory-suggests-aquatic-apes-might-account-for-legends

Those Egyptian cave paintings also make me raise my eyebrows and stroke my imaginary beard.  A couple of screen shots:















I'd do my best to hide if I were they, the majority of humans on the surface are freaking insane. Overall considering that it is animal planet, it was a good job. Damn those jackboots.

[Buddy]

Quite fascinating, makes me go hmmm,

That Navy sonar test sounds like pure death. The whole setting with the US Navy and finding merpeople sounds a lot like the series "the man from atlantis." Curiously enough, the Atlanteans were said to be deep in genetic engineering themselves, connection? I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Interesting indeed!

bngenoh, you're a scientist, right? What do you think about the possibility that mer-people might be simply humans having undergone an evolutionary adaptation? When I think of 'mermaids', I'm reminded of Turner's syndrome with it's characteristic webbed neck and the fact that it affects mainly females. 'Aquatic apes' may also fit I guess, but I don't know.

Anyway, we know there's been speculation about things like: how 'conditions' that might be considered a disease condition in one place might really have been 'adaptation' in another. For example, in the U.S., 'sickle-cell anemia' might be looked at as a disease condition, while it might actually be an evolutionary adaptation that conferred immunity to malaria in the jungles of Africa.

Plus, according to the Human Genome Project, we are seeing massive and rapid changes now in n-somias on chromosome 23 and 21, though less so on chromosome 21.

So, if Nature is engineering chromosomal changes, they might have been evolutionary trial runs at one time or our current 'conditions' might be continuations of trial runs, so to speak. There are profligate n-somias on chromosomes 21 and 23, and there are probably others. Chromosome 21 expresses at least one trisomia extension which we're calling 'Down's Syndrome.' Chromosome 23 is showing incredibly more change with tri-, quatro-, penta-somias, etc. Various names are: Turner's (of which the characteristic clinical feature of patients with the syndrome is neck-webbing but may also include other abnormalities such as short stature, swelling, broad chest, low hairline, low-set ears), Kleinfelter's (human males have an extra X chromosome), and T-Fem syndromes (Testicular Feminization Syndrome AKA Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome in which affected individuals are chromosomally XY but have a feminine phenotype and are sterile), etc.

The Human Genome Project may turn up even more n-somias for all I know. So, considering Earth changes and climate change now playing, one wonders what changes might be in store for our species as well.

[Al Today]

[...]




I'd do my best to hide if I were they, the majority of humans on the surface are freaking insane. Overall considering that it is animal planet, it was a good job. Damn those jackboots.

Seems that is how we've been programmed. Murderous of the different and unknown.
When growing up, I did have a friend who had webbed fingers and toes. I was saddened by how he was incessantly picked on by others. Children can also be so very mean, like their parents. He was so very very happy when the webbing was removed with surgery. He did not care about the scarring afterwards. All he cared about was being "normal".

[bngenoh]

Interesting indeed!

bngenoh, you're a scientist, right? What do you think about the possibility that mer-people might be simply humans having undergone an evolutionary adaptation? When I think of 'mermaids', I'm reminded of Turner's syndrome with it's characteristic webbed neck and the fact that it affects mainly females. 'Aquatic apes' may also fit I guess, but I don't know.

Anyway, we know there's been speculation about things like: how 'conditions' that might be considered a disease condition in one place might really have been 'adaptation' in another. For example, in the U.S., 'sickle-cell anemia' might be looked at as a disease condition, while it might actually be an evolutionary adaptation that conferred immunity to malaria in the jungles of Africa.

Plus, according to the Human Genome Project, we are seeing massive and rapid changes now in n-somias on chromosome 23 and 21, though less so on chromosome 21.

So, if Nature is engineering chromosomal changes, they might have been evolutionary trial runs at one time or our current 'conditions' might be continuations of trial runs, so to speak.

Hi buddy,

I am a scientist by nature, but I don't have any pieces of paper to show. You hit the nail on the head when you said that genetic diseases in one environment could be an advantageous evolutionary advantage in another. Consider the fact that the human when developing in the womb, possesses gills, a tail, etc, at different stages of development which are now known to be controlled by genes that are precisely timed, and when activated, initiate the production of various factors, whose concentrations in different areas, determine what is developed. Trial runs of nature or an experiment by higher level scientists, both are not mutually exclusive.

With Fukushima, the Gulf oil disaster, and all the other forms of ecocide currently unfolding on our planet, it won't take long for many things which have managed to remain hidden to come to the surface if they exist.

About merpeople and the possibility of them being humans, I think that the genetic changes would have had to be done very early on phylogenetically speaking, ie from a common ancestor. The same way the C's have said that all races are of the same age and that one of the reasons for their existence is as experimental creations. It didn't take that long relatively speaking, for the polar bear to emerge with it's webbed front paws, and if there are conscious forces out there who intervene periodically to alter the evolutionary destiny of species, then rapid changes such as speciation events could be very common, and their occurrence and rate may be quite rapid osit.

[tschai]

Interesting indeed!

bngenoh, you're a scientist, right? What do you think about the possibility that mer-people might be simply humans having undergone an evolutionary adaptation? When I think of 'mermaids', I'm reminded of Turner's syndrome with it's characteristic webbed neck and the fact that it affects mainly females. 'Aquatic apes' may also fit I guess, but I don't know.

Anyway, we know there's been speculation about things like: how 'conditions' that might be considered a disease condition in one place might really have been 'adaptation' in another. For example, in the U.S., 'sickle-cell anemia' might be looked at as a disease condition, while it might actually be an evolutionary adaptation that conferred immunity to malaria in the jungles of Africa.

Plus, according to the Human Genome Project, we are seeing massive and rapid changes now in n-somias on chromosome 23 and 21, though less so on chromosome 21.

So, if Nature is engineering chromosomal changes, they might have been evolutionary trial runs at one time or our current 'conditions' might be continuations of trial runs, so to speak.

Hi buddy,

I am a scientist by nature, but I don't have any pieces of paper to show. You hit the nail on the head when you said that genetic diseases in one environment could be an advantageous evolutionary advantage in another. Consider the fact that the human when developing in the womb, possesses gills, a tail, etc, at different stages of development which are now known to be controlled by genes that are precisely timed, and when activated, initiate the production of various factors, whose concentrations in different areas, determine what is developed. Trial runs of nature or an experiment by higher level scientists, both are not mutually exclusive.

With Fukushima, the Gulf oil disaster, and all the other forms of ecocide currently unfolding on our planet, it won't take long for many things which have managed to remain hidden to come to the surface if they exist.

About merpeople and the possibility of them being humans, I think that the genetic changes would have had to be done very early on phylogenetically speaking, ie from a common ancestor. The same way the C's have said that all races are of the same age and that one of the reasons for their existence is as experimental creations. It didn't take that long relatively speaking, for the polar bear to emerge with it's webbed front paws, and if there are conscious forces out there who intervene periodically to alter the evolutionary destiny of species, then rapid changes such as speciation events could be very common, and their occurrence and rate may be quite rapid osit.

I don't think it would take much more advancement in genetic engineering than we currently possess(we already know how to turn certain genes on and off) to be able to produce certain features which might be advantageous to survival in various environments- so these beings (hypothetically-we do not know they really existed or perhaps still exist) could possibly have been either created artificially-perhaps as a survival strategy against a known cataclysm, or as a whim of a capricious advanced civilization-or could have indeed been a natural mutation that turned out to be advantageous.

The oceans are vast with plenty of hiding places-but as you say with all the turmoil and earth changes lots of stuff may come out of hiding-and may not be happy in doing so...we have been told of subterranean civilzations that are waiting to emerge-and supposedly will do so soon-so why not a race of aquatic beings as well? We could be in for one heck of a coming out party-and it may not be fun
 

[bngenoh]

We could be in for one heck of a coming out party-and it may not be fun

But it would be very, very interesting.   

[tschai]

We could be in for one heck of a coming out party-and it may not be fun

But it would be very, very interesting.   

You betcha!

[Gertrudes]

While the documentary did perk up my interest, a few things weren't very convincing to me. I am no expert on species evolution and maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't a species that adapted in such a way so as to even gain a tail, have also a pelvis with a similar adaptation? Or maybe it wouldn't even have a pelvic bone. The fact that that being had hips of a biped was a bit awkward to me. Following their logic in what concerns gravity, why would a marine being with a tail and fin still need a pelvis designed to support the weight of the organs when standing in an upright position, if he can no longer stand? Wouldn't an adaptational need have changed it the same way it had changed its two legs into a tail?

Then we have that short video of the two boys closer to the end of the documentary. I don't know, but it seemed at bit too much of a "oh look, that's a fin! Amazing...a pity we can't see the rest.." . Where is the rest? Wouldn't the boys have filmed more of that supposedly incredible being? I can't tell what happened, of course, but that did not convince me.

I wasn't too keen on the computer animations either. For me, they added an unnecessary sensationalist tone by pushing a conclusion on the viewer right from the beginning of the documentary.

I still don't know what to think of it though, maybe trues mixed up with fabrications? I don't know yet.

Documentary aside though, the fact that the mermaid legends have been around for such a long time and within so many different cultures can probably speak for itself, I think. Only a small percentage of the ocean has actually been explored, so the possibility of an hominid that has become water adapted can very well be real. The more I read, the more I find that what to me were previously incomprehensible myths, possible metaphors, or codes to certain sightings, seem to often be relatively accurate descriptions of very real events. We can take the example of plasma shapes created by electrical discharges, that can now be observed through controlled experiments, and that seemed to have been observed and reported through drawings in many ancient cultures all over the world. (there's a link with more detail about this but I wasn't able to find it)

[Richard]

Wouldn't an adaptational need have changed it the same way it had changed its two legs into a tail?

Maybe it's the other way around. Life seems to have started in the sea and there's an old theory than man came out of the sea. The major evidence in support of this, as I remember it, is that our spines are weaker than they should be. Had we evolved on land we should be stronger. In the sea however, gravity doesn't affect our spines as much.

[bngenoh]

While the documentary did perk up my interest, a few things weren't very convincing to me. I am no expert on species evolution and maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't a species that adapted in such a way so as to even gain a tail, have also a pelvis with a similar adaptation? Or maybe it wouldn't even have a pelvic bone. The fact that that being had hips of a biped was a bit awkward to me. Following their logic in what concerns gravity, why would a marine being with a tail and fin still need a pelvis designed to support the weight of the organs when standing in an upright position, if he can no longer stand? Wouldn't an adaptational need have changed it the same way it had changed its two legs into a tail?

Very valid questions Getrudes, if it was a natural adaptation I would see any hominid go the way of the cetaceans, that being said it would probably be different. The evolutionary time frame is also a factor just like how snakes & cetaceans even today, still have a vestigial limb, maybe they would sitll retain some of their land adaptations, but I don't know.

Then we have that short video of the two boys closer to the end of the documentary. I don't know, but it seemed at bit too much of a "oh look, that's a fin! Amazing...a pity we can't see the rest.." . Where is the rest? Wouldn't the boys have filmed more of that supposedly incredible being? I can't tell what happened, of course, but that did not convince me.

I didn't see anything at all in those boys footage, it was the made for T.V. thing, osit. They didn't even show the picture that the boys supposedly drew, and even if they did I would still take it with a grain of salt since this is a documentary put out by a mainstream media outlet, and I have no way of independently verifying the date of the sketch, and also since the scientists materials were confiscated, I am just left with probabilities.

I wasn't too keen on the computer animations either. For me, they added an unnecessary sensationalist tone by pushing a conclusion on the viewer right from the beginning of the documentary.

I still don't know what to think of it though, maybe trues mixed up with fabrications? I don't know yet.

  I thought those computer animations and how they portrayed the human ancestors was quite funny, suddenly they had webbed hands, looking like the Raith from Stargate Atlantis. The part about the scout sacrificing itself to save the group from the megalodon, was just ridiculous, made for T.V. and all that, if there were any Evolutionary Biologists out there who happened to have watched it to that part, I think they would have turned it of right then and there, which is what I was about to do, but I'm glad I stuck through it.

Yeah I think it is a case of approximately true instances with outright fabrications to make it go down easy for the masses.

Documentary aside though, the fact that the mermaid legends have been around for such a long time and within so many different cultures can probably speak for itself, I think. Only a small percentage of the ocean has actually been explored, so the possibility of an hominid that has become water adapted can very well be real. The more I read, the more I find that what to me were previously incomprehensible myths, possible metaphors, or codes to certain sightings, seem to often be relatively accurate descriptions of very real events. We can take the example of plasma shapes created by electrical discharges, that can now be observed through controlled experiments, and that seemed to have been observed and reported through drawings in many ancient cultures all over the world. (there's a link with more detail about this but I wasn't able to find it)

That's why I found those Egyptian cave paintings so fascinating, if the documentary did anything, at least it brought those paintings to my attention. I'm telling you I am just waiting for mole people to show themselves.