Milk and other Dairy Products Discussion

[RyanX]

My comment about the expense of healthy food was actually in regards to acquiring organic grass fed meat, organic eggs from free-range chickens not being fed soy, organic coconut oil and coconut flour and other products from Tropical Traditions which has really made the case of their superior products, alternate food items like organic grape seed oil, purchasing reverse osmosis filters to no longer bathe in or consume fluoridated water, purchasing spring water until filters can be bought which may never happen as it looks like maintaining two households is again in my future, etc., not to mention the cost of the many supplements that have been recommended on the forum. There's very little in the conventional grocery store that is actually healthy in any way. Buying organic and/or specialty products is always more expensive than the norm.

Apologies JEEP, I misunderstood your post.   

I do agree with you that food and staying healthy in general, is getting pretty expensive.

[LQB]

I do agree with you that food and staying healthy in general, is getting pretty expensive.

It sure is!  And hard to get now.  Our single local chain store has an organic section that is running bare.  Twice we have been told by employees that the store puts in the orders, but they are not filled.  We have started putting in large orders through 2 other volume suppliers.  Some of these orders do not get filled.  One of these suppliers told us that much of the organic produce is being bought up by the chains due to a lack in their regular produce channels.  Not a good sign.

But to get back on topic, I recently followed a restricted ultra-diet while doing an extended colon cleanse (kidney flush and calcium flush) for about 6 weeks.  Two weeks prior to this I stopped all grains/gluten.  Two months later, still no gluten, and feel a definite improvement.  No grains/gluten from here on out.  After the 6 weeks, I reintroduced raw milk with about a 14 oz glass.  I did experience a short duration stomach pain - but that disappeared quickly with no other effects.  And none since - but the raw dairy consumption since reintroduction has been more cream and less milk.

FWIW

[JEEP]

No worries RyanX. I've enjoyed and learned from many of your responses here.   

[Tree]

Hmm... I've been thinking and researching on this one for a long time.  In the health department, sometimes I like to draw my own conclusions and I don't always take the group's consensus as my personal (and often professional) opinion.  Basically I agreed that milk and dairy just aren't any good, period.  Until I found kefir.  I'm currently buying legally-sold organic jersey cow raw milk from a farm 5 miles away to make kefir.  It's really an experiment that so far is having only positive benefits... improved digestion and energy (wasn't too bad to begin with), my spouse's athlete's foot is improving even though he has recently strayed off our usual no sugar diet.  

I've been really interested in fermentation lately (I'm makeing kombucha too- so delicious!).  I don't know if I'll ever have enough evidence based solely on my personal experience and reports from my clients' and acquaintances' experiences to recommend it here.  However, if anyone has any additional info that incriminates kefir other than its "dairy" category, I would like to see it.  I've looked and couldn't find any so far.  Maybe this should be a new topic, or maybe the kefir discussion is out since it comes from dairy?   Its been on my mind for a while.

Tree

[Laura]

JEEP, I find it surpassingly strange that you claim to suffer from ADD and haven't made the connection between that and a possible reaction to the casein in milk which is very similar to, and as evil as gluten in wheat.  ADD is inflammation of the brain. 

[Psyche]

The proteins in dairy (casein) behave like gluten. So it triggers an autoimmune response and/or mimics endorphins to cause changes in perception, mood, and behavior. It is literally a drug, that is why people are so hooked up with dairy and gluten.  But dairy also causes problems in other ways as well, it is reviewed in Detoxification and Healing, but here is the relevant part about gluten and casein:

An average person and most doctors simply cannot believe that difficulty with the digestion and biochemical or immunological processing of the gluten found in these grains can cause substantial mischief.

Gluten intolerance affects approximately one out of a hundred people; if you look among sick people instead of in the general population, you will find a much higher incidence. If you have problems of just about any combination of symptoms you can name or even if you have been diagnosed with a disease and remain symptomatic, a brief avoidance of gluten in your diet will cover this base.

Gluten sensitivity is the protein in cereal grains such as wheat, rye, and barley.  Sensitivity is not the same as an ordinary allergy.

Most sensitivity to foods involves delayed reactions and has to do with IgG antibodies.  It is very easy to identify food allergies if you get an immediate reaction to them, for example if you get a rash after eating some strawberries. But it is very tricky to pin down a delayed food allergy because there is no clear-cut cause and effect. You may experience symptoms after two hours, but frequently they don’t show up until one day to three days after you eat the food in question. Further complicating matters, the symptoms wax and wane. You may eat gluten with impunity one day but get diarrhea from it the next three times you indulge. Or your symptoms may be cumulative, occurring only after you’ve eaten gluten  a number of times or when you eat a particular combination of foods you’re sensitive to.

Delayed food allergies can cause just about any symptom, and chronic illness often involves a state of inappropriate immune vigilance in which food allergy gets involved even if it is no the cause of the problem. For some reason, your defense immune system can get stuck in a high vigilance alert and response, leading to chronic inflammatory symptoms that persist and even worsen long after the initial trigger has gone. When this happens, your immune system may develop an oddly aggressive attitude toward a variety of antigens or foreign substances in your body, including many found in the foods you eat.

Wheat and other gluten-containing foods and milk products may test positive on IgG food allergy testing but that, in you, produce effects that are not really allergic but are mediated by mechanisms that take weeks or months for alleviation after avoiding the foods.

Autistic children often improve enough on a gluten-free [Psyche: and dairy free diet, it is well documented] diet at to make it worth continuing. The diet avoids wheat, rye, barley, and all products containing even traces of the protein (gluten) found in these grains. Oats are still a matter of controversy; some studies show no negative effect in gluten-sensitive individuals, but other individuals report reactions to them.  The majority of psychologists, physicians, teachers, neighbors, and parents reject the idea that anything as completely innocent as bread or spaghetti could make your lose your mind.  More practitioners every day prescribe a gluten free diet for individuals with diseases such as schizophrenia and autism as top treatment instead of it being it a last resort.  If you have any chronic symptom and you have not tried eliminating gluten from your diet for somewhere between three weeks and three months to see what different it may make.

Doctors are conditioned to think that each disease has a separate cause, and each produces a separate disease, so it is no surprise that they will find it difficult to believe that sensitivity to the protein wheat, rye, barley, and maybe, oats could produce such a diverse list of conditions such as headaches, fatigue, malaise, depression, any sort of chronic digestive problem including difficulty gaining weight, abdominal pain, diarrhea, constipation, irritable bowel, undigested food in stools, Sjögren’s syndrome (dry eyes), epilepsy associated with brain calcification, history of migraine headaches, or digestive problems; osteoporosis, infertility, complications of pregnancy such as miscarriage, low-birth-weight infants, intestinal lymphoma, esophageal cancer, diabetes, thyroid problems, schizophrenia, autism, dermatitis herpetiformis (a chronic skin condition with tiny blisters that resemble those of herpes virus infections).

There is substantial evidence of a causative association between gluten intolerance and these problems. And the list grows as case reports of dramatic cures produced by a gluten-free diet attract the attention of researchers.

There are blood tests and urine tests that may predict whether you will feel better by eliminating gluten from your diet, but no blood or urine test is completely decisive. Response to a change in diet will be decisive for you.

The original peoples of Northern Europe, who like the peoples of the Americas, Africa, and the Far East, had not adapted to the consumption of wheat because they were hunter-gatherers or because they practiced agriculture based on corn, millet, or rice, as well as tubers.  

[...]

In order to understand gluten sensitivity, we must understand digestion of protein. A protein is an assembly of amino acids.  Amino acids joined together are called peptides and when we have 100 or so amino acids joined together, we have a small protein. Most proteins have hundreds or thousands of amino acids, and they are folded into shapes that are kept permanent by bridges, usually made of sulfur. The strength of this assembly is quite strong, and so our digestive tracts are trusted with the task of disassembling the thousands of amino acids from our foods right down to individual amino acids, which then pass int our bloodstream to be then reassembled int our own very proteins.  To be more precise, our digestive tracts uses stomach acids, and alkali juices from our intestines, combined with the digestive enzymes to do this job. Specific enzymes disassemble the proteins into peptides. Gluten intolerance has to do with a failure of a particular enzyme, a peptidase called DPP4.

 When the same enzyme is sticking out of a lymphocyte, a cell of our immune/defense system and apparently doing a different job within the body, it is called CD26. Because of the failure or insufficiency of DPP4, an undigested fragment of protein, or peptide, survives and it appears to cause mischief in at least two ways.  First, this undigested peptide, looks familiar to the immune/defense system, in other words, it produces a mimicry which is based on digestive weakness among the descendants of peoples who have not been eating wheat long enough to adapt. This will cause symptoms caused by the triggering of an immune response against a suspicious-looking peptide which will resemble a virus to our defense/immune system.  Because the gluten-derived peptide is similar to various disease-causing virus, it generates a complex defensive response on the part of the immune system, which does not then find a virus to kill. The next step  is damage to tissues by the antibodies aimed at the peptide. This triangle of viral stimulus, immune response, and autoimmune damage is suspected to be a common theme in various illnesses, such as type I diabetes, multiple sclerosis, and autism.  The immune response damages different tissues in different people.

The second way that undigested peptides from gluten cause trouble is by entering the bloodstream. Peptides released from gluten when there is a failure of DPP4 possess another kind of mimicry apart from their resemblance to peptides from viruses. These peptides look like opium and the family of drugs derived from opium: heroin, morphine, codeine, and other semisynthetic derivatives. This understanding is based on the finding of opioid peptides in the urine of individuals with autism and schizophrenia, also from the dramatic withdrawal symptoms that occur in some individuals when they come off gluten. The malaise and irritability strongly resemble a mild version of the kinds of symptoms seen in heroin withdrawal.

Most individuals with gluten-related symptoms will begin to experience relief a few days after excluding all gluten. It may take up between 3 weeks and 3 months.

Many doctors define the problem in terms of the lab test, the lab tests are meant to indicate celiac disease, which does not necessarily have a one-to-one correlation with all of the other problems associated with gluten sensitivity. Celiac disease is just one type of a broader spectrum of gluten sensitivity.

[...]

Everything that we had learned about gluten applies to casein, one of the main proteins in milk, the lack of DPP4, thus the peptides pass into the blood where they do harm because the evoke an autoimmune response and/or mimic endorphins to cause changes in perception, mood, and behavior.; but it is to say that milk can cause you problems in other ways as well.  

[...]

The lack of these enzymes (peptidase) is not only due to heritability, but it is also due to multiple factors including toxicity (for instance, heavy metal toxicity) which ends up impairing their function.  Also, for a more thorough review on gluten, see Sayer Ji's articles here:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/205172-The-Dark-Side-of-Wheat-New-Perspectives-on-Celiac-Disease-and-Wheat-Intolerance
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/205205-Opening-Pandora-s-Bread-Box-The-Critical-Role-of-Wheat-Lectin-in-Human-Disease

[LQB]

Thanks much Psyche for taking the time to post the above - I have still to resume my reading of Baker's book.  Although I would like to see the definitive mechanisms in detail and the human variations, there is certainly enough evidence to try suspending raw dairy again (in my case) for a much longer period - and will do so.  Probably the simplest clue is Sayer Ji's note about the use of these materials in various glues.    In alternative foods you also have the issues of saponins, phytates/phytic acid, lectins, etc.  Foods high in phytase (enzyme that neutalizes phytic acid) are the quickest to rid themselves of phytic acid when soaked/fermented/sprouted.  The phytate/phytic acid content of some foods and breads by % dry weight are:

Sesame seeds dehulled    5.4
100% wheat bran cereal   3.3
Soy beans                        1-2.2
Pinto beans                      .6-2.4
Navy beans                      .7-1.8
Oats                                  1.4
Peanuts                             1-1.8
Barley                                1.2
Whole corn                       1.1
Rye                                    1.0
Brown rice                         .8-.9
Chickpeas                          .3-1.3
Lentils                               .3-1.1

and Breads:

Corn                                 1.4
Whole wheat                      .4-1.1
Popped corn                       .6
Rye                                   .4
Pumpernickel                     .2
French bread                      .03
Sourdough rye                   .03
Soured buckwheat              .03



I'll add some more on this if there is interest - maybe in a different thread.

Refs: on measurements - Food Phytates, CRC Press, 2001

[JEEP]

Thank you Laura and Psyche for this information which is new to me.

[truth seeker]

My comment about the expense of healthy food was actually in regards to acquiring organic grass fed meat, organic eggs from free-range chickens not being fed soy, organic coconut oil and coconut flour and other products from Tropical Traditions which has really made the case of their superior products, alternate food items like organic grape seed oil, purchasing reverse osmosis filters to no longer bathe in or consume fluoridated water, purchasing spring water until filters can be bought which may never happen as it looks like maintaining two households is again in my future, etc., not to mention the cost of the many supplements that have been recommended on the forum. There's very little in the conventional grocery store that is actually healthy in any way. Buying organic and/or specialty products is always more expensive than the norm.

Hey JEEP,

Just wanted to let you know that I think RyanX has made a good point. I am also not currently purchasing organic foods exclusively because I currently can't afford it. Try and see it as a challenge though. Cutting out sugar, gluten and dairy will free up your expenses so that you can afford things that are healthier. As for the grocery aisles (in America), try and shop mainly on the outer aisles (produce, frozen vegetables, meat/fish). This will not only make it easier to avoid buying the processed stuff, but also reduces temptation if you don't have to look at it!

This is of course easier said than done and initially frustrating, but well worth it.

I'll be honest, milk/dairy was difficult to give up, but now that I have I feel much better. Doing it gradually helps when first starting.

[Keit]

Take a look at this article. Perfect milk propaganda. Now they say that breastfeeding is not enough, bring on cow milk! I wonder if they received positive results because infants immune system was completely overwhelmed and didn't show allergy results later on?

Early milk exposure may cut allergies in infants
_http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2010/07/15/milk-exposure-study.html

Exposing an infant to cow's milk in its first 15 days of life may protect it from a dangerous milk allergy later on, new research suggests.

The new findings are a slight departure from the recent advice of medical authorities such as Health Canada, who recommend exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months, "as it provides optimal nutritional, immunological and emotional benefits for the growth and development of infants," according to the federal department.

Researchers found that when babies were exposed to cow's milk, in the form of baby formula, in the first 15 days after birth, they seemed to be protected from developing an allergy to milk protein later in life. In a prospective cohort study, they tracked 13,019 infants and found that those who consumed formula early on were 19 times more protected from cow's milk protein allergy, or CMPA, than babies who consumed formula after the first 15 days.

CMPA can cause skin rashes, respiratory issues and, in very rare cases, shock and death in babies.

The scientists believe the early exposure offers a "vaccination effect" in infants, meaning it has protective value. Based on the findings, they recommend mothers expose their babies early to formula, though they still stress the importance of breastfeeding. Those who choose to breastfeed might want to consider offering a bottle of formula per night, they suggest, adding that more conclusive studies are needed before more concrete advice can be given.

The study was not randomized, meaning it can't rule out that the results are due to factors other than the infants' formula eating.

The study was conducted by Tel Aviv University researchers and is published in the July issue of the Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology.

[Ben]

So, now we need to vaccinate our children against cow's milk like it was a disease? There is a better solution - leave it to the cows! 

[Nienna]

Hmmmm, I wonder who funded that research? 

[Ellipse]

Here's what I've found in the Cayce database :

480-42

(Q) Can Milk and Dairy Products be included in diet? Also eggs?
(A) The yolk of eggs might be taken, but not so well for the whole egg. Milk products may be gradually added, but for the body yet it is much preferable to use Dry Milks or Malted Milks rather than Raw Milk. There is so easily an over-stressing upon milk, by many; for there are many products much more healthful than milk. So few milks are free from tubercle; so few are free from those influences that cause a great deal more irritation than help - unless irradiated or dried milk is used. These as a whole are much more healthful to most individuals than raw milk.

By "tubercle" I guess Cayce refer to the tubercle bacillus, the germ of tuberculosis. The reading was delivered in 1937.

Very often, in other readings, Cayce advice to use dried or malted milk. This is interesting because the pasteurization is known for long (1862). However I don't know if the US milk industry used it systemically in 1937. So the process of malting or drying milk is perhaps something which make the milk assimilable by the body.


pasteurization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteurization

malted milk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malted_milk

dried milk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dried_milk

Use in biotechnology

Fat-free powder milk is used as a saturating agent to block non specific binding sites on supports like blotting membranes (Nitrocellulose, PVDF, Nylon),[11] preventing binding of further detection reagents and subsequent background.[12] It may be referred as Blotto. The major protein of milk, casein, is responsible of most of the binding site saturation effect.

[The Spoon]

Mainstream Media picking up that Milk fats might cause bowel inflamation and auto-immune response:

_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18432652

...and it's OK, because the scientists will fix it 

Commenting on the research, Dr Roy Sleator, from the Cork Institute of Technology, said: "Not only do the authors provide, what is in my opinion, the first credible explanation as to how Western diet contributes to the unusually high incidence in inflammatory bowel disease; they also suggest an effective means of dealing with such diseases, by simply reshaping the microbial balance of the gut."