mind: master of illusion

Shijing, yes, of course I was frustrated. I did not feel understood. I did not get the response I expected. I think at some level also I felt that the original post was an area of improvement in my practice and yet that was not acknowledge, and in fact people ignored the original content and focused on something else which IS a problem. So my self-importance took injury, my ego was not fed. People kept saying the same thing and I kept replying the same way so I was frustrated.

oops, looks like yet again I am caught with a face covered in chocolate and an empty chocolate wrapper and a pathetic excuse of denial. No matter how much I feel I have grown, when I come on this forum someone always manages to cut down my ego. It hurts and my personality hates it. But I need it.

abeofarrell said:

I am not angry or offended. I am simply stating the fact that people are jumping to conclusions. I have said many times that the modern literature is useful for me but that I would also like to understand the esoteric literature more. That is all. Yet people continue to interpret my desire to understand esoteric literature as meaning I am totally against the psych literature.

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I think what is trying to be said to you here is this: the important things FIRST are to work on those issues that have to do with relationships and being able to deal with the real world, mastering the self with top down controls not bottom-up reactions. This is what you are not doing. The key is that when you begin to do that, the issues of higher-centers come into play naturally.

The point is, as the Cs told me: deal with what is in front of you, don't try to bite off more than you can chew. It's not even useful to start speculating about higher centers until you master the lower ones and have them sorted out. And believe me, we can spot it when that is happening! Otherwise, you are doing little more than speculating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Thanks Laura,

After spending just a day on this, looking at my body reactions, my mood and the reaction of others around me, I am realizing and trying to come to terms with the fact that I have a much bigger problem with anger than I thought. I can see a tide of anger which simmers quietly just under the surface. It has become such a major part of who I am that I honestly did not notice it, but it is noticed by others. It explains a lot of things.

Part of it is probably from my angry father who is a vietnam vet and was continually in a rage until he went on meds about 7 years ago. The other part is that as an adolescent I was bullied a lot so I am always on the defensive, always treating everything as an attack. I thought that part of my life was over but it obviously is not. This is a painful realization for me as I have done so much work on this part of my life and in some ways are proud of my progress, but the roots are still there. I need more EE and more journaling to get some of the trauma out, and I need to be on the alert for the programing from my relationship with my parents.

Still such a long long way to go. Hah! Mind: Master of Illusion is certainly a good title for this thread, though not in the way I intended it.

abeofarrell said:

Thanks Laura,

After spending just a day on this, looking at my body reactions, my mood and the reaction of others around me, I am realizing and trying to come to terms with the fact that I have a much bigger problem with anger than I thought. I can see a tide of anger which simmers quietly just under the surface. It has become such a major part of who I am that I honestly did not notice it, but it is noticed by others. It explains a lot of things.

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That's why the books "Strangers to Ourselves" and others are so important. They make the very clear points about how almost the only way for us to know what is going on inside ourselves (bizarre as that may seem) is to get feedback from others. We do continuously lie to ourselves in the form of narratives made up by our intellectual center, driven by emotions, and as a result, lie to others without even being aware that we are doing it.

abeofarrell said:

Part of it is probably from my angry father who is a vietnam vet and was continually in a rage until he went on meds about 7 years ago. The other part is that as an adolescent I was bullied a lot so I am always on the defensive, always treating everything as an attack. I thought that part of my life was over but it obviously is not. This is a painful realization for me as I have done so much work on this part of my life and in some ways are proud of my progress, but the roots are still there. I need more EE and more journaling to get some of the trauma out, and I need to be on the alert for the programing from my relationship with my parents.

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Indeed. The Pennebaker exercises are good for specific things, but I always recommend that people simply write their life story with no pity for themselves or others. Nobody has to ever read it unless you want to publish it on an anonymous blog for the sake of helping others.

abeofarrell said:

Still such a long long way to go. Hah! Mind: Master of Illusion is certainly a good title for this thread, though not in the way I intended it.

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At least you see the humor in the situation! And now you understand better why being concerned with "higher centers" is a bit premature! As I said, those things kind of take care of themselves when you do the work on the lower centers. And don't think that getting it sorted out is going to be easy! The "Dying" of the old self, the false personality, the illusions, is truly being stripped to the bone.

Laura said:

abeofarrell said:

I am not angry or offended. I am simply stating the fact that people are jumping to conclusions. I have said many times that the modern literature is useful for me but that I would also like to understand the esoteric literature more. That is all. Yet people continue to interpret my desire to understand esoteric literature as meaning I am totally against the psych literature.

Click to expand...

I think what is trying to be said to you here is this: the important things FIRST are to work on those issues that have to do with relationships and being able to deal with the real world, mastering the self with top down controls not bottom-up reactions. This is what you are not doing. The key is that when you begin to do that, the issues of higher-centers come into play naturally.

Click to expand...

Yes, we can tend to think that psychological studies and 'esoteric' studies very different things, or at least consider that psychological study is 'not as important'. But from the point of view of most people these psychological/emotional studies are already quite 'esoteric', they do play an important role in work upon oneself.

At first what we are aiming to do is akin to trying to prize open a very tough nut in order to get at the tiny seed of potential inside and begin growing it.

The thick outer casing of the nut can be likened to 'Personality', often described as that which is 'not our own' or everything that has been borrowed, learned or copied from the world around us.

Then there is the seed of potential that is 'Essence', that which we can really call our own, what we are born with. But the problem here is that generally this part of us is very small. The shell of personality grows around it at a very early age and its growth stops there. Its tastes, thoughts and emotions stop growing at the level of a very young child. As such it is woefully uneducated, emotionally immature, clumsy.

But Essence is the part of us that can begin to grow, the route via which we can make progress. The psychological / emotional part of the study we do here is aimed at finding ways to navigate through the thick outer casing of Personality while simultaneously teaching our juvenile Essence so that it can grow to a level where work can begin.

The more Essence can be properly educated, the better able it is to see and understand the shell of Personality that formed around it and begin to distinguish between the two, this can then begin to make greater sense of the more 'esoteric' studies.

Personality is always getting in the way of Essence, trying to shut it up, or forever throwing up the barricades. If we don't begin to educate Essence, especially emotionally, then nothing else will change, everything will carry on in Personality as before.

Laura and Alada,

Thank you for your comments. Alada, you are so right. It is such a long and hard journey with many steps, each which take a maximum of effort and devotion. But that is the only purpose I can see in my life. All my life I have searched and searched for truth. As a child I wanted to be a priest. In high school I was heavily into buddhism and wanted to be a monk. I have been searching for so long and so hard and have finally found truth. I will fight for it.

Laura, about the life story, should I start at the beginning, or should I start recently like is recommended in the Don Juan books for recapitulation? I certainly think it is a good idea and have been toying with that idea for ages but never started.

abeofarrell said:

After spending just a day on this, looking at my body reactions, my mood and the reaction of others around me, I am realizing and trying to come to terms with the fact that I have a much bigger problem with anger than I thought. I can see a tide of anger which simmers quietly just under the surface. It has become such a major part of who I am that I honestly did not notice it, but it is noticed by others. It explains a lot of things.

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I think that noticing what chakra reacts to events around is not good way to solve problem. IMHO it doesnt solve anything.
I used very simple method - programmed myself to realize any "non-aceptance" and then think about it, and what/why cause it.
Most of time it leads to some anticipation about anything around. Removing anticipation can solve problem, about peoples, about events....

It it is not so easy to remove. Mind will resist, body and chakras can react. There is method of meditation when you realize that some charka/part of body is "vibrating" you can focus on it and let your own body enegry remove "emotional block". Any mind anticipation also have its effect on enegry flow within a body. If there are nothing to guard, enegry will flow freely.

abeofarrell said:

Laura, about the life story, should I start at the beginning, or should I start recently like is recommended in the Don Juan books for recapitulation? I certainly think it is a good idea and have been toying with that idea for ages but never started.

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Start at the beginning. In fact, you might want to start by doing a little genealogy and finding out about your family connections and what your ancestors did (if possible) and understand the "atmosphere" of the family into which you were born. Whatever you remember while you are writing, include without judgment. You will often find that you begin to remember more things so you can go back and add them in. I would write in a notebook and only use one side of the paper so you can add other stuff in on the blank facing page if necessary. It helps to write by hand and then transcribe onto computer.

Laura said:

Start at the beginning. In fact, you might want to start by doing a little genealogy and finding out about your family connections and what your ancestors did (if possible) and understand the "atmosphere" of the family into which you were born. Whatever you remember while you are writing, include without judgment. You will often find that you begin to remember more things so you can go back and add them in. I would write in a notebook and only use one side of the paper so you can add other stuff in on the blank facing page if necessary. It helps to write by hand and then transcribe onto computer.

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I have a question regarding this point. What if what you know about members of your family (especially those you have known little or not at all) is based only on rumors and hearsay? There might be some truth in those, but maybe it is also already s.o else's judgment. Do we take this into account?

Mrs Tigersoap,

That us a valid point. I will write about what I remember and what i can confirm. I think sometimes how you perceived reality is more important than the actual facts as it is your perceptions which shape your personality. Anything factually important i cannot confirm I will leave space for in case i get new data later.

I started today, wrote 10 pages on what i know of my family background. As you have pointed out a lot of it may be hearsay so I used many "maybes" and "possiblys". What I do know is i have orphaned grandparents on both sides and war veterans everywhere, so I can only guess the extent of damage caused by these factors by comparing to similar cases.

Oh, that reminds me, does anybody know a good book looking at the psychological damage on families from family members going to war?

Regarding my 3 day project, I think I have learned a lot.

The main thing I see is that I am totally out of touch with my feelings. Unless there is something which brings a large emotional response from me i have absolutely no idea what I am feeling at any particular moment. Secondly, my body lies to my mind about my feelings. For example, my body wants something and tells my mind that if I get it I will be happy. I get what it wants then my mind presumes I am happy, but there is no real happiness present.

So now I am trying to listen to my feelings. When I talk to people I listen to what they feel and I listen to the empathy I feel and allow it to show. This unites my three centers and also makes the listener feel listened to.

I was right about anger though, I have a almost continual feeling of low level anger, and when that is not there I usually have anxiety. My anger flares up constantly for no real reason. So now I observe it and ask myself "why am I angry? Where is this coming from?", and so I am starting to see causes of the many programs running inside me.

Slowly making progress.

abeofarrell said:

I was right about anger though, I have a almost continual feeling of low level anger, and when that is not there I usually have anxiety. My anger flares up constantly for no real reason. So now I observe it and ask myself "why am I angry? Where is this coming from?", and so I am starting to see causes of the many programs running inside me.

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Sounds good, abe. :)

For what it's worth, anger is often a defense mechanism - a protective wall that serves to keep our fears at bay. So perhaps it may be beneficial to try and go a bit deeper to find the roots of the fears/anxieties (whether real or perceived) that may be fueling the anger?

In addition, you may want to consider finding a bodyworker (massage, rolfing, etc). This may be helpful in clearing out past traumas that have become stuck in the body.

Thanks Truth Seeker. Let me go into a little more detail.

Basically as you have said my anger is a defense mechanism. I see that. I was bullied through most of my school life so I carried angry feelings as a way to protect my psyche from feeling the loneliness, guilt, etc. My anger activates or flares up as different I's relating to roles take over. Basically there is the Victim, there is the Father (my father), there is the Mother (my mother). These are the main three I's. When my ego is threatened the Victim I takes over. When I don't get things my own way then the Mother I takes over. When I can't be in control then the Father I takes over. It really hit me two nights ago when I was angry about something and my wife said "Why are you so angry? You are just like your mother."

I truly am shocked to see how close to death my emotional center is. It feels almost nothing. There is just bodily pleasures and mental states. The feelings are there but they are really fine, really weak. But I am learning to listen to them and over the last 2 days they are a teeny bit stronger. I also feel a lot more empathy now I am listening to my feeling center.

Writing about my childhood while reading Dabrowski's theory has shown me a lot too. I always looked at my grandfather's passing as just a trauma I need to be released from. But now I see that it was a disintegration time for me. After his passing I started getting interested in spiritual things. So yes, his death caused pain, and the repressed grief caused many neuroses to appear in my life, but some of those negative feelings helped me start to think about my life.

About rolfing, there is not much around here for that (Japan). I am doing EE, journaling, and working on my life story. That will have to do for now. Actually, after the pipe and round breathing I found myself close to tears for the first time in several years, so I think some walls are starting to crack.

Thank you everyone for your support.

Just don't rush or push too hard. Be gentle with yourself. These things take time.

Laura said:

abeofarrell said:

Laura, about the life story, should I start at the beginning, or should I start recently like is recommended in the Don Juan books for recapitulation? I certainly think it is a good idea and have been toying with that idea for ages but never started.

Click to expand...

Start at the beginning. In fact, you might want to start by doing a little genealogy and finding out about your family connections and what your ancestors did (if possible) and understand the "atmosphere" of the family into which you were born. Whatever you remember while you are writing, include without judgment. You will often find that you begin to remember more things so you can go back and add them in. I would write in a notebook and only use one side of the paper so you can add other stuff in on the blank facing page if necessary. It helps to write by hand and then transcribe onto computer.

Click to expand...

Just a matter of comment, it’s so interesting this comments from Laura, the last year I did all this began to find out about my genealogy who were my ancestors finding a lot of problems and a break with my Grandmother, and the continue family narcissistic problems after that!!!! The total writing was like a relief, I was crying for one complete day and after that point I feel better!!!! It really helped me!!! :)