Author Topic: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers  (Read 4563 times)

Offline Kios

  • Jedi Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 437
  • « L'ego est un Je d'enfant. »
Re: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2012, 11:28:52 AM »
I think something interesting have been said here : living in a big town or being in a more "rural" area can give a really different experience in a country.

I become utterly nuts when people talks about Paris as it is "France" in its whole while I know from experience that Paris is an island in the middle of a country ...

So true.  Our neighbors around are, for the most part, great.  But it's the peeps in the cities that are nuts, and that includes those in Toulouse who are being manipulated and/or controlled by some in Paris. 
True indeed, it is still that "effect" from Paris that act as if everything that happens in France has to happen in Paris in the first place or directly being ordered from it. This mentality is like a very very old sickness holding as strong as it can in order to keep the capital alive and important. It seems acting like a living  "ego".

But still, there is that obvious wounding in the French that derives from the overall culture inculcated by school and the propaganda that is always there as an undercurrent.   I found out that some people in local positions of authority or having positions that give them a bit more wealth and  position, aspire to emulate the Parisians in their attitudes and perversions. They rather poison the local atmosphere.
Agreed ten times ! In my way of looking at it, this is the same reaction as a little boy would mimic his big brother bad behaviors because it's "cool to be a bad-ass", an automatism very hard to fight which starts when as you said, you get a bit of power/importance.

Now on smalls scales those persons are generally put back in their places or directly kicked out because the "small people" (note the quotation marks) never handle that kind of behavior for long. Here as I stay, in the North East of France, it is an even stronger reaction since we really have "something*" against those "Parigots" behaviors and the one coming from that city have to be really careful in his first days or he could be sent back with a foot mark in his back ;)

*for an significant part of the people in Paris, they still think Alsace is in Germany or that we don't speak French well. No, I'm not joking.
For the fun : Ciel mon mari est muté en Alsace _http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd4bwz_ciel-mon-mari-est-mute-en-alsace_fun
(Bubbles) Okay, this is a very mundane question and you're all going to laugh at me, but has anybody ever figured out why cats purr?
A: Self stimulation of the vagus nerve or the cat equivalent.
(Mr. Scott) So Kitty does Eiriu Eolas all day, all the time.

:D :D :D

Offline Starshine

  • Padawan Learner
  • ***
  • Posts: 61
  • Hammer-thinking
Re: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2012, 03:41:07 AM »
Since the topic drifted a little on Paris, I’d like to share my own experience.
I come from the south suburbs of Paris, I lived here my whole life. The suburbs can be really different from where you are. As every big city of this planet, maybe.
When I was younger, at middle school (junior high school / 10-14yo) I used to be insulted because I was a French White guy. I used to be the target of racism with some others, because 80% of my schoolmates were not white, and kids are kids, they can be mean in groups. Adults too for sure.

 I was not a victim though, there was just a special section which was a little apart from the others: the SEGPA. It's a special section for kids that had already problems in elementary school (6-10yo). And because we make them feel different from the others, we have the first real social differentiation here. Most of them are from immigrant families that already have problems to feel integrated in the French system, which is far from the best, I agree, by the way. They don't want to integrate themself in the society because they already feel apart. They want to break the laws really soon, considering that "France is a b****" that left there parents behind, having already hate and anger for a system that they don't even really now. And that they're not gonna be happy to know about, btw. They just see the direct consequences and the differences that are made between them and "the others". We used to consider the Parisians as "Bourgeois" in these suburbs, and you definitely don't want to be considered as a "Bourgeois" when you are a kid on those schools. Actually, to be opposite to the system was more like the model to follow if you want to be in. And I think that's what made me disinterest in school progressively, because I didn't want to feel more apart by being too good, just wanted to be good enough, I was scared to bring attention on me when I was younger. Mixed with laziness, not having motivation and confidence in myself.
And this is pretty common in the suburbs of Paris. Which is the most populated region (approx 9.5 million without Paris itself) with the highest density (976.5 inhab. / km ² with Paris, 20 169 /km² only for Paris) of France. I never considered myself as a Parisian, I lived in an apartment in a block, never been poor but Paris was another world for me, even though it was 5 miles away. Some kids used to not believe that I was really living in an apartment, because I was white, and so, supposed to be rich.

So yes, the experience of your own country can be really different depending on where you live. When I discovered the life in the countryside, I saw that it was totally different; people were way less "weird”and"nasty" ,IMO, between each other. Relationships seemed easier and more honest. But I was not really proud to say I'm from Pa.. the suburbs of Paris. Most people on the countryside have a dirty look on Parisians, and even more on the people of the suburbs.Thanks to the medias. Brainwshed, we are for sure. People here are rude, and I can feel more insecure here than in every country I've ever been.

It brings me back to the book "La fabrique de la defiance" that I'm waiting to read soon, which is certainly a good clue to a better understanding of why the France is in her actual state, I listened to the french podcast made by Juliana and Pierre, available here :
 Le-mal-etre-francais

Thank you a lot for this one. It makes a lot of sense to me. It’s a real clue to a better understanding of why we’re here. Talking about our suicides rates, anxiolytic intake, the sad reality behind the appearance of a model society. Jealousy, individualism and inequalities. Lack of social cohesion and of empathy.
The french educational system shows a vertical education, the teacher speaks and the students record. It’s based on the ranking and the competition. Seeing the other as an obstacle.
It disregards the creativity and does destructive comparisons. I know why I quitted, I was over it, I wanted to see something else, no regrets, I know why I come back now.

Moving 10 miles away to the South at 15yo, I discovered a new environment, with a big high school full of trees, huge deal for me. I became sociable, too much to keep me in school. But I was way happier, discovering that life can be different. It’s only after having travelled to foreign countries that I realized the impact that you had by saying “I’m from Paris”. Waw. Apparently the advertising is well done. I began to think myself that there was some good stuff about Paris, which is true, when you don’t see 10 homeless people in the same day when you visit it. Paradox land.

That's my perspective, from what I lived. I don't know if it brings much to the conversation, but I felt like I had to tell it. The mood here makes you want to be nasty to the others, overall, because if you smile to someone in the streets, you're gonna look like a freak. And being surrounded by all this depressed energy doesn't make you wanna talk to strangers. The last thing people want here is to be spontaneous and familiar to strangers. No, it's certainly weird if you smile in the subway..Not for this Boddhistava though  :)
 I'd like to know what people think about this language in general. There's still great people here, but most of my direct surrounding has nothing that I envy for my future. But I learned/learn a lot at observing at them.
 

Offline Sunbeam

  • A Disturbance in the Force
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2012, 01:19:34 PM »
"The other aspect of the "rude French" myth is based on a misunderstanding of the French personality. People from many cultures smile upon meeting new people, and Americans in particular smile a lot, in order to be friendly. The French, however, don't smile unless they mean it, and they don't smile when talking to a perfect stranger. Therefore, when an American smiles at a French person whose face remains impassive, the former tends to feel that the latter is unfriendly. "How hard would it be to smile back?" the American might wonder. "How rude!" What you need to understand is that it's not meant to be rude; it's simply the way of the French."
"If to be free is the most important goal of all, then to help someone else to be or become free must be the most sublime and rewarding of human endeavors."

--Elie Wiesel

Offline Gandalf

  • SuperModerator
  • ********
  • Posts: 7,184
Re: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2012, 06:17:02 PM »
Hi Sunbeam,

Welcome to our forum.  :)

We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read. 

You can have a look through that board to see how others have done it.
Every time you say "yes" to someone who doesn't deserve it, and go against Yourself and what you value the most, you kill a small part of your essence. LKJ

And tell your friend to quit torturing you with trying to force it down your throat!  There are people whose job it is to just be sweet, loving and caring and it is the job of warriors to look after them.  It's that simple. LKJ

Offline JayMark

  • Dagobah Resident
  • *******
  • Posts: 854
  • At the service of The Law Of One.
Re: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2013, 07:32:45 PM »
Interesting thread. It's always nice to have the perspective of those who have been there to witness it.

I have never been out of Canada (only time I went outside Québec was to go to Ottawa for a school trip 14 years ago) but on the other hand, I know many French people who have moved here.

I have asked them to tell me how different it is here and they pretty much all said (in a general sense) that we are much more easy going, respectful, calm and tolerant (of course, that doesn't apply to everyone). They also say that our teachers in school are also much more easy going, fun, relaxed and the result is that there is a much more interesting, fluid and natural interaction between them and the class.

I also know many people who went to France to work for a while (contract) before coming back and they have said that in a general sense, it is way different. They generally described their experience as them being caught in a sort of intense hierarchy where they were only considered like mere peasants and had to follow very strict regulations and very severe "bosses" (of course, that is the feeling they have in comparison to here).

Anyhow, I really enjoy the French people that I know (here and in France). I also have three French woman teachers (one is a chemist, one is a biologist and the other is a physicist) and they are very nice, skilled and fun. There is a great Québec/France "complicity" between us in class and we like to joke about it sometimes, especially about the differences of language such as when they try to mimic our accent and expressions and also when we do the same.

Thanks for sharing guys.
My religion is Truth and my philosophy is One. There are only lessons. Knowledge protects and ignorance endangers. Know yourself, be yourself, look and listen. The anwsers are everywhere. It's up to you to look at them or to ignore them.

Offline Rose

  • Padawan Learner
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: Men and Woman in France or Why French Men Make Lousy Lovers
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2013, 01:34:19 AM »
I just wanted to share my personal experience concerning sexism in France and in Belgium. Just to give a bit of background, I'm from Montreal (Canada), so I speak French but I'm not French. When I was 16, I spent a year in Belgium in a pretty big city, and whenever I would walk downtown by myself, I would almost systematically have men follow me around or make comments about me or asking me to go out with them or even have sex with them sometimes. A lot of these men were at least twice my age. There was one time when I was supposed to meet a friend at a bus stop at a place where there were a lot of bus stops and I couldn't find the right one. I asked a guy for directions, which he gave to me, and then said I had to kiss him because he had helped me. When I refused, he started begging, and I tried to get away from him but he kept following me demanding that kiss, that I owed it to him. He only went away when I saw my friend (who was a guy) and ran to him. I could give dozens of examples like that.

The same thing happened when I went to Paris last year. I was with 2 other girls and I would hear guys make rude comments at us all the time, and we didn't go to any bad or dangerous neighborhood either. The last day I was there, I was alone and had to walk for about 10 minutes from the place I was staying to the metro station, it was about 6 am and the streets were almost deserted. During those 10 minutes, no less than 3 guys made rude comments about me.

My point is that this kind of behavior seems almost systematic and normal, or at least socially acceptable. But the truth is that it's very annoying and unpleasant and can sometimes be downright scary. You're basically made to feel like you're a walking consumer product and not a person. I've traveled a lot in the rest of Europe and Asia and I haven't encountered this kind of attitude elsewhere, or even in Montreal. I'm not saying it never happens, but not as much.

I also have an anecdote to illustrate my point. A few years ago, I was working in a place in Montreal where there were only 2 other women and the rest were men. One of those guys was from France. One day, the other 2 girls were absent and one of the Canadian guys, who had been harassing me for weeks, went on a rant about how women were always in a bad mood and hysterical for no reason whenever they had PMS, and how I must have PMS because I was in such a horrible mood and rude to him the day before (you try being cheerful when some pervert is trying to grab you!), and immediately, ALL the other guys started defending me and telling him he was out of line, except the French guy who started laughing and agreeing with him but stopped when he saw the others' reaction. Now, none of those guys knew at the time that the guy was harassing me, and that French guy was actually pretty nice and had never said anything disrespectful to me or any of the other girls. I just think that for him, putting down a woman just for being a woman was something that was normal and acceptable and for the Canadians, it was not. So basically, it's a question of cultural attitude.

Having said all that, I did enjoy the time I spent in Belgium and France (except Paris) and have met a lot of very nice and decent people. Just my 2 cents.