Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just thought I would mention a bit about stools. I've noticed a significant change in frequency (every three days, approx.) and consistency: more like the stools of a very young infant except for color. The "except for color" would be due to the substances consumed: meats/broth vs mother's milk. But the consistency is about the same: somewhat loose, small in size/amount.

Now, I wonder if this is what some of ya'll are referring to as diarrhea? It's not, actually. As I just said, it is more like what an infant produces under normal circumstances. They don't get "well-formed" stools until you start feeding them veggies and grains. Until then, their stools are some bits of solid matter accompanied by more liquidy stuff. It's often described as like "curds".

Second, for those of you having trouble finding any butcher or meat dept manager who will cut up some big bones for you, try a different store or ask for ox tails for soup.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I live in Darwin, but will be in Tassie soon - is he producing that himself? Or is it one of the bigger brands sold all over Oz?
Wonder how he gets away with no nitrates ...
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I'll see what I can find out and let you know ....

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:

Just thought I would mention a bit about stools. I've noticed a significant change in frequency (every three days, approx.) and consistency: more like the stools of a very young infant except for color. The "except for color" would be due to the substances consumed: meats/broth vs mother's milk. But the consistency is about the same: somewhat loose, small in size/amount.

Now, I wonder if this is what some of ya'll are referring to as diarrhea? It's not, actually. As I just said, it is more like what an infant produces under normal circumstances. They don't get "well-formed" stools until you start feeding them veggies and grains. Until then, their stools are some bits of solid matter accompanied by more liquidy stuff. It's often described as like "curds".

Second, for those of you having trouble finding any butcher or meat dept manager who will cut up some big bones for you, try a different store or ask for ox tails for soup.

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I have made a similar observation ...

As before I had to take magnesium and vit. C to have a bowel movement every one to two days (otherwise they would be very hard and painful) I have recently had a bowel movement only every two to three days - BUT with the right consistency AND without any mag or vit. C! Only thing is a bit of a different smell - "unpleasant".

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:

I don't think now that the problem I was having was was thyroid, and I don't think that people should avoid a ketogenic diet because it might cause thyroid problems. You have to stay with it until you figure it out, backing off when required (due to severe symptoms) and trying different things, as I was suggesting earlier.

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Thyroid function changes are part of what is seen in longevity research.

The criticism of the ketogenic diet in the paleosphere started with Jaminet (from Perfec Diet or something like that) who as an astrophysicist self-diagnosed himself with thyroid problems while he was on the low carb diet. His wife, was doing perfectly fine on low carb. I doubt he had a classical clinical syndrome, but then, most thyroid problems go undetected by lab tests. Although his symptoms could have been die-offs. Anyway, he wrote some pretty smart posts that had everybody talking about it and Chris Kressner got convinced at some point and joined "the party". I'm not entirely convinced he did the diet properly, for one thing I've never seen him talking about delayed food sensitivities. Anyway, all the while other paleo researchers where trying to be reasonable about it, including Dr. Catie Shanahan who in her clinical practice has advised a ketogenic diet for years without seeing thyroid problems in her patients.

Rosedale was another critical voice about the "thyroid nonsense" in low carb diets, since he is an expert in longevity research. Here is a summary of what he found:

Insulin, Leptin and the Control of Aging

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/242888-Insulin-Leptin-and-the-Control-of-Aging

Some common, consistent effects of caloric restriction include lower fat mass, particularly visceral fat - remember that - lower circulating insulin and IGF concentrations, increased insulin sensitivity, lower body temperature. Flowers live longer if you keep them cooler. It appears to be a universal truth. Lower fat free mass. Lower sedentary energy expenditure. Decreased levels of thyroid hormone and decreased oxidative stress. Reduced metabolism and therefore free radical production is another possible explanation. And there Other effects such as lower body temperature, decreased insulin, decreased IGF, decreased sympathetic nervous system activity, altered gene expression have all been suggested as mechanisms that explain the extended lifespan associated with calorie restriction. [...]

Centenarians, people who live to be 100 or older, have lower insulin and IGF levels. One of the nice ways to study aging in humans is on centenarians. Centenarians, they've been showing now for quite a few years that there are differences among centenarians. They eat different diets, they smoke and have different personalities. There are not a lot of similarities between centenarians. But they universally have lower IGF, lower insulin, lower temperature and lower thyroid levels. Those go together.

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Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

seek10 said:

As I mentioned I am having low thyroid issues (TSH 7.85), low blood sugar issues ( after 2hrs of heavy paleo diet it reaches 65 to 75 max ) and very low iodine levels ( 20 - healthy limit is 100 or so ), cortisol levels at lower end of healthy range.[...]

what are the healthy levels of blood sugars ? some say 65-100 , some say 80-100 and others more. the doctor I visited says 80-100. After 2 hr meals 100-140

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But what are your symptoms? If you feel fine with blood glucose levels of 70 after 2 hours of a paleo meal, it is not a problem whatsoever.

Don't focus on lab references that are geared towards a society whose diet is rich in carbs, totally abnormal!

You know when you overtaxed your insulin stimulation when your fasting glucose levels are over 85mg/dl which then invites the risk of heart attacks or strokes. Men with fasting glucose levels over this level may have up to a 40 percent increase in risk of death from cardiovascular disease. Although fasting glucose levels below 126mg/dl are considered typically normal, levels of even 95 might be already way too high because it invites problems.

It is ideally optimal for healthy individuals to have blood glucose levels of no more than roughly 70 to 85 mg/dL at any given time and without any symptoms of a sugar crash – hypoglycemia. For some, a sugar crash may set in with a fasting glucose level of 90 or 100 and may even cause seizures in someone who is used to levels of 400 mg/dL, as with some diabetics. But for someone used to functioning between 85 and 100 mg/ dL, a sugar crash may manifest as mental fogginess, emotional lability, shakiness, fatigue or irritability at levels of 70 mg/dL. This explains why so many people feel tired and lethargic on strictly reduced carbs since they are used to very high levels of blood glucose and all the body’s systems are geared to those high sugar levels.

A healthy person maintaining consistently low sugar and insulin levels may not exceed 90 or 100 mg /dL right after eating, and may feel absolutely great and symptom-free with fasting blood glucose levels at 70. That person is likely running smoothly on fat fuel instead. The lower you can maintain your blood glucose levels in a healthy and functional way without experiencing sugar crashes, the better off you are.

Keep in mind that the body is adamant about maintaining the minimal necessary levels of sugar in the blood at any given time because it is inherently damaging to vessels, organs, and tissues in the body. The less glucose that is absolutely necessary, the better.

Fasting blood sugar of over 100 mg/dL is already reflective of dysregulation at a functional level even though it is considered normal in mainstream medicine. The ability to sustain a fasting blood glucose level between 70 and 85 mg/dL without any problems and not allowing glucose to spike higher than 40 mg/dL over your fasting value after eating has a favorable effect in activating our longevity genes. So that is the story morning glory.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:

I wish I could remember this better, but while the glucose reading needs to be taken while fasting, there is another measure that needs NOT to be taken while fasting. I don't remember which -- part of the lipid panel, perhaps.

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Well maybe it was an inflammatory marker (PCR) or glycated Hb (Hb A1c) which gives a rough idea of the last 3 months rate of glycation.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I had some broth with butter on it, it was absolutely delicious!! And it is perfect since butter has medium-chain fatty acids. If we consume more of these fatty acids than can be burned in a short period of time, our liver converts the excess into ketones, which in turn can be available for our mitochondria for whatever it needs it.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche said:

seek10 said:

As I mentioned I am having low thyroid issues (TSH 7.85), low blood sugar issues ( after 2hrs of heavy paleo diet it reaches 65 to 75 max ) and very low iodine levels ( 20 - healthy limit is 100 or so ), cortisol levels at lower end of healthy range.[...]

what are the healthy levels of blood sugars ? some say 65-100 , some say 80-100 and others more. the doctor I visited says 80-100. After 2 hr meals 100-140

Click to expand...

But what are your symptoms? If you feel fine with blood glucose levels of 70 after 2 hours of a paleo meal, it is not a problem whatsoever.

Click to expand...

nervousness, chronic anxiety , mental confusion in making choices, sleeping trouble, tiredness, cold intolerance, may be hair loss too.
symptoms of peripheral nueropathy : a tingling, burning, or prickling sensation, occasional sharp pains, cramps in feet, hands, back worse at night.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:

Just thought I would mention a bit about stools. I've noticed a significant change in frequency (every three days, approx.) and consistency: more like the stools of a very young infant except for color. The "except for color" would be due to the substances consumed: meats/broth vs mother's milk. But the consistency is about the same: somewhat loose, small in size/amount.

Now, I wonder if this is what some of ya'll are referring to as diarrhea? It's not, actually. As I just said, it is more like what an infant produces under normal circumstances. They don't get "well-formed" stools until you start feeding them veggies and grains. Until then, their stools are some bits of solid matter accompanied by more liquidy stuff. It's often described as like "curds".

Click to expand...

Same here. I had an "upset stomach" for about 15 minutes on Sunday. It wasn't really my stomach, though... it's more like a mild upset in the intestines, or at least that's what it feels like.

Anyway, this time it went away after some minutes and lots of burping, and no housecleaning events occurred.

But, I have noticed the every 3 days and infant-like thing. Before, it really was like diarrhea, usually accompanied by stomach upset beforehand. Now it's darker, much looser than Paleo (but not diarrhea), and totally NOT miserable.

Starting on Monday (the day after the mild stomach upset event), I've been turbo-charged. I only sleep 7 hours a night, which is unusual for me, and I still have lots of energy.

I believe I will hit the 3-week marker on Friday, so we'll see what happens next.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Mr. Scott said:

Laura said:

Just thought I would mention a bit about stools. I've noticed a significant change in frequency (every three days, approx.) and consistency: more like the stools of a very young infant except for color. The "except for color" would be due to the substances consumed: meats/broth vs mother's milk. But the consistency is about the same: somewhat loose, small in size/amount.

Now, I wonder if this is what some of ya'll are referring to as diarrhea? It's not, actually. As I just said, it is more like what an infant produces under normal circumstances. They don't get "well-formed" stools until you start feeding them veggies and grains. Until then, their stools are some bits of solid matter accompanied by more liquidy stuff. It's often described as like "curds".

Click to expand...

Same here. I had an "upset stomach" for about 15 minutes on Sunday. It wasn't really my stomach, though... it's more like a mild upset in the intestines, or at least that's what it feels like.

Anyway, this time it went away after some minutes and lots of burping, and no housecleaning events occurred.

But, I have noticed the every 3 days and infant-like thing. Before, it really was like diarrhea, usually accompanied by stomach upset beforehand. Now it's darker, much looser than Paleo (but not diarrhea), and totally NOT miserable.

Starting on Monday (the day after the mild stomach upset event), I've been turbo-charged. I only sleep 7 hours a night, which is unusual for me, and I still have lots of energy.

I believe I will hit the 3-week marker on Friday, so we'll see what happens next.

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I have this small stools every 3 days before when i am on low carb ( though I used to have occasional low carb, but mostly it ended up paleo) . After went into Very high fat thing I had loose motions.- 4 to 5 time day, mostly water and some stool for 2 or 3 days. it seems to have stabilized after that.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Same here for the stools. Yesterday I started my fourth week. There have been days when I've been super tired. Others when I'm totally fine and full of energy. I've noticed that I needed about 6 hours of sleep for the first two weeks and a half, but for the last three nights I've been sleeping almost 10 hours! But I feel I need it, and don't wake up tired. In fact, on the days of most calorie restriction, I feel almost great! I never go above, say, 1g of protein per kilo of body weight, but it feels as if when I do a bit less that that, I feel better. So perhaps after the adaptation period, some people do need about 0.8g of protein per kilo. Is anybody else noticing something similar?

I was wondering if this need for extra sleep might be a sign that things are moving, that the mitochondria has started healing. No idea, but FWIW.

Another thing that has become more visible is muscle mass. I didn't really need to lose much weight (I measure 1,60m and usually weight 54-55gs). I've lost roughly 2,5kgs (52kgs now), and although that's hardly anything, my "shape" is changing. My clothes fit differently. The belly is flatter, I can definitely see muscles in my arms and thighs (I was always pretty "muscle-less"). So that's really interesting. It might be mostly due to the workout, but I think it's probably a combination with the diet too. And more importantly, aside from the muscle "aspect", I can definitely lift more weight every day. Carrying heavy things is getting easier and easier.

My teeth are still pretty clean since I last wrote an update.

So, all pretty good stuff. It's encouraging to see other people's results. I think we are onto something here. IMO, it's definitely worth it to keep going, at least until the 8 week period that some papers mentioned as the time it takes for the mitochondria to heal. We'll see!

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

seek10 said:

nervousness, chronic anxiety , mental confusion in making choices, sleeping trouble, tiredness, cold intolerance, may be hair loss too.
symptoms of peripheral nueropathy : a tingling, burning, or prickling sensation, occasional sharp pains, cramps in feet, hands, back worse at night.

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Are you having enough broth? You might be low on minerals. If you are having difficulty transitioning, you should add some butter to the broth as it becomes readily available for energetic purposes while keto-adaptation is still not on full mode.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Shijing said:

Besides this, I've been wanting to mention that one of the most significant effects that I've noticed since making the recent adaptations to the ketogenic diet is a reduction in anxiety. This is something that's been an issue for me for a very long time, and the change is quite noticeable. The problem is not completely gone, but it's allowed me to feel much more like my mind is in charge of my emotions (instead of the other way around).

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Great news!

I guess this paper was onto something, if several people are having this same effect.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche said:

seek10 said:

nervousness, chronic anxiety , mental confusion in making choices, sleeping trouble, tiredness, cold intolerance, may be hair loss too.
symptoms of peripheral nueropathy : a tingling, burning, or prickling sensation, occasional sharp pains, cramps in feet, hands, back worse at night.

Click to expand...

Are you having enough broth? You might be low on minerals. If you are having difficulty transitioning, you should add some butter to the broth as it becomes readily available for energetic purposes while keto-adaptation is still not on full mode.

Click to expand...

Though i took occasional broth before, not on a regular basis. I started taking daily only a week back and I will see how it goes. Regarding butter, I can't eat. 90% of my fat is from beef tallow. Butter produces tiredness and uneasyness, that forces to me sleep for a hour to recoup.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

seek10 said:

Psyche said:

seek10 said:

nervousness, chronic anxiety , mental confusion in making choices, sleeping trouble, tiredness, cold intolerance, may be hair loss too.
symptoms of peripheral nueropathy : a tingling, burning, or prickling sensation, occasional sharp pains, cramps in feet, hands, back worse at night.

Click to expand...

Are you having enough broth? You might be low on minerals. If you are having difficulty transitioning, you should add some butter to the broth as it becomes readily available for energetic purposes while keto-adaptation is still not on full mode.

Click to expand...

Though i took occasional broth before, not on a regular basis. I started taking daily only a week back and I will see how it goes. Regarding butter, I can't eat. 90% of my fat is from beef tallow. Butter produces tiredness and uneasyness, that forces to me sleep for a hour to recoup.

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I'd consider switching from beef tallow to something else. Tallow has a lot of longchain fats that make it waxy in texture and may be tricky for a weakened body to deal with. Do you have access to lard? It has a lot of monounsaturates and shorter saturates that may be easier for your system to handle. Also, I know it's not considered ideal, but coconut oil is almost all medium chain saturates that are used for instant energy. Dr. Michael Eades praised coconut oil as making the transition to fat burning much easier. Maybe try adding some of that, at least temporarily.