Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

seek10 said:
I was looking for nutrient contents in Bone broth. is this available any where ?. My guess is Fats ( variable, any way floats ) , carbs (should be none) , proteins ( should be none if there is no meat) , calories ( I am not sure) .

I came across this in TAASOLCP (remember TAASOLCL?)

Factoid: Most packaged foods list protein content per serving on the label. To determine the protein content of bulk foods, however, it helps to use ‘the rule of sevens’. As a general estimate, one ounce of meat, fish, or poultry contains 7 grams of protein. A cup of fermented dairy (yogurt, buttermilk), an ounce of cheese, 2 ounces of nuts, a cup of home-made broth, and a large egg each contain about 7 grams of protein. So, for example, if your goal is to get a minimum 100 grams of protein per day, all you need to do is be sure that you include 14 of these 7-gram protein units in your daily diet.

Phinney, Stephen; Jeff Volek (2012-06-15). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (p. 68). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.

So that is one estimate for protein. Broth can be very high in fat. One estimate of bone marrow fat content that I came across was 25 or more grams of fat per ounce of marrow. Of course that is diluted in the broth, but it can amount to a lot of fat even if you don't add any. Protein content, of course, would depend on dilution as well.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm making bone broth from marrow bones I got from my butcher (chopped into about 7" pieces) with the joints on it, and a bit of meat and some fat. He also cracked open the joints. I put some apple cider vinegar and lemon and soaked it for an hour before I started cooking it yesterday afternoon.

I still have several hours of simmering before I add salt, pepper, and more fat in the form of butter and lard. I have to render some more lard this morning, as I ran out yesterday evening. I'll post how this batch turns out after it's done and I taste it.

And the bones came out to 1.4 kg for the equivalent of just under US$1 for the whole thing.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'd like to join in and share my experiences with the diet.

I am finally in ketosis (have been for maybe a couple of weeks) and was astonished how little food I need. What used to be a normal portion with protein and carbs is about twice as much as I can manage now. And there is no temptation to overeat, the body says enough and that's that. And I won't get hungry again until the end of the day.

So far I've had little digestive problems, occasional nausea because of the amount of fat, but a few green salad leaves with apple vinegar and olive oil usually fixes that (to support what Psyche said about vinegar aiding fat digestion :) ).

At the moment, I have stopped taking supplements, but might add a little D3 again. My sleeping pattern has normalised, I am able to sleep eight hours straight again, which I haven't been in a while, even when the room is completely dark. I rarely need to nap in the afternoon anymore, which I always had to do while eating carbs.

Mainly I'm living on bone broth, liver pate, bacon and eggs, and the occasional slice of pork or turkey (when I have to go out for lunch at work and there is nothing else to be had) and lots of butter and lard. Occasionally a few salad leaves with apple vinegar and olive oil.

And I need to take so little! It minimises the amount of damage I have to do to other beings, and it's much easier to be conscious of what I am doing and being thankful for every meal. Not being overwhelmed by the abundance anymore, going shopping hungry, ending up with a full fridge and food cupboards and half of the food goes to waste…

I always hated wasting food, I was trying to plan meals in order to avoid doing that in the past, but the problem simply doesn't present itself anymore, so that's an added bonus :) Although it has to be said that I don't consider most of the things I used to buy in the past food anymore :) It's sort of funny, I look at it and think some of it looks nice and colourful and decorative, but it's not something I would ingest :)

Bottom line, I could kick myself for being so dense for so many years… when now it all seems so obvious. But that might be an effect of the increased clarity of mind that comes with the KD :)

Thank all of you from the bottom of my heart for making this possible!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have now reached around 120 pounds (5'6 male) and think that I am just getting too skinny. I have been restricting protein quite heavily, though not calculating it properly. I am still just not gaining any strength, and getting somewhat frustrated about it.

I will be experimenting with 30g of protein throughout 3 meals a day, whilst remaining at zero carb and eating lots and lots of fat to keep the ratio around 1:4 to see if I can gain some weight.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Excuse me, for going off-topic, but I'd like to know what exactly do mean when you say 'lard'? Is it a rendered fat, salted underskin fat cuts or both? I'm just curious.

Returning to post topic I just want to add that being in the middle of KD transition and learning your exact body needs can be painful. It's my fifth day of zero carb intake and my energy level is very low, though my appetite diminished greatly. I wonder if energy levels depend on exercises. Going to check it today.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Finduilas495 said:
At the moment, I have stopped taking supplements, but might add a little D3 again.

I'm having my reservations about vitamin D supplements. I think most people find it helpful because it prevents the elimination of intracellular bacteria, which typically causes improvement of symptoms. But in the long term, you want to get rid of those bacteria as it messes up mitochondrial function.

We have discussed this in the past here in the forum, and I noticed Nora Gedgaudas brought it up again in her book PBPM. The story is that Vitamin D3 is really not a vitamin, it is a secosteroid hormone related to our immune system. You can measure your vitamin D levels (25-D), but only measures of both 25-D and 1,25-dyhydroxyvitamin-D (the active metabolite) will help you understand what is really going on. The problem comes when there is an infection with intracellular bacteria such as L-bacteria.

Vitamin D metabolism can be dysregulated by these bacterias so they can proliferate by inactivating the Vitamin D Receptor (VDR) which has a fundamental role in our immune system. In an attempt to activate the VDR and kill the bacteria, the infected cells release inflammatory chemicals which causes 25-D to be converted into 1,25-D; the result is low 25-D levels and elevated 1,25-D levels. Thus, the disease process causes low 25-D, but that doesn’t mean low 25-D is the cause of the disease.

Vitamin D supplementation promotes excess production of 1,25-D in infected people with L-bacteria, which then decreases vitamin D receptor transcription of proteins that have broad spectrum antimicrobial activity against bacteria, viruses, and fungi. This results in less elimination of microbi and thus, an improvement in symptoms which deceptively suggests that you are getting better. However, symptoms may come back in the long-term, as the intracellular bacteria continue to multiply.

1,25-D as a secosteroid hormone is essential for many vital metabolic functions. The vitamin D receptor is responsible for turning on and off a wide variety of genes and chemical pathways. When 1,25-D levels reach a certain threshold, 1,25-D binds not just to the VDR, but to other nuclear receptors that regulate the body's hormones (i.e. adrenals, thyroid, sex), thus, disrupting hormonal homeostasis.

Perhaps it is for this reason why a study involving almost 250,000 people found higher mortality rates when the blood contained extremely low levels of 25-D (perhaps from a lack of cholesterol in the diet), but also high levels as well (less than 2.5 ng/mL or more than 56 ng/mL respectively). The lowest mortality rates were seen with levels of 20 ng/mL of 25-D:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=A%20Reverse%20J-Shaped%20Association%20of%20All-Cause%20Mortality%20with%20Serum%2025-Hydroxyvitamin%20D%20in%20General%20Practice%3A

If you benefit from Vitamin D3 supplementation, make sure most of your intake comes from natural animal sources such as cod liver oil which contains other nutrients necessary for a proper metabolism. It is perhaps for this reason that cod liver oil has proved to fight off infections dramatically. We are likely to see problems if we drift away from natural animal sources. Also, keep in mind that ketosis is by far the best tool against intracellular bacteria since it promotes autophagy which in itself is the best way to get rid of both intracellular viruses and bacteria.

I think that as we go along with the ketogenic diet, our vitamin D levels will stabilize themselves naturally as all those bugs get killed. That is my hypotheses, I guess we'll have to wait and see.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've been using bone broth for a little over a week now and I must say it is golden. I feel so much better. More energy, relaxed, thoughtful, able to handle the stresses of life with a sense of well-being.

It makes it easier to reduce carbs. At times that I would usually have a piece of fruit I sip a cup of broth instead.

As I mentioned my first batch was from spinal beef bones. I mistakenly trimmed the fat and meat. I have been adding leaf lard to pump up the fat content.

While waiting for marrow bones to arrive I made a batch using spare ribs. The bones are somewhat small in proportion to the meat and fat. This time I cooked them as they came with fat on. It tastes very good, satisfying. When I had cooked it in the crock pot for 24 hrs the meat fell off the bones easily. I found that the bones and marrow were very soft. I put the bones in a blender reducing them to a thick liquid. Then stirred the liquid into the broth.

This second batch has a much higher fat content as evidenced by the layer of fat that floated to the top of the jar. The liquid itself is semi clear and is mostly jelled at refrigerator temperature.

I received the marrow bones a few days ago. Will cook them soon. I am making only small batches now until I am ready to try canning.

Love the broth. :)

Mac
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

aimarok said:
Excuse me, for going off-topic, but I'd like to know what exactly do mean when you say 'lard'? Is it a rendered fat, salted underskin fat cuts or both? I'm just curious.

I think people were referring to rendered. But speaking of under-skin fat, there is this traditional Mediterranean Italian dish called Lardo (lard) di Colonnata:

Lardo di Colonnata, to give it its full name, is a delicacy produced from pork fat in and around the Tuscan mountain town of Colonnata. Happily for fans of cured meat, it's not only a frugal way of preserving pork fat over winter - it's delicious too!

It's made in large vats known as conche, fashioned from marble quarried at the nearby 'white mountain' of Cararra, which are first liberally rubbed with garlic. Next, layers of pork fat, salt, and a special mix of herbs and spices are added until the vats are full. The conche are then sealed with a wooden lid and left in cool mountain caves for 6 months or longer to mature in the clean air.

After the maturation time is over, the conche are opened to reveal a silky-smooth, meltingly tender 'meat' which can be eaten in much the same way as Parma Ham or other prosciutto.

It should taste delicious!:

lardo-440x305.jpg
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Psyche, may I ask what your thoughts are on magnesium supplementation? I ran out of magnesium (glycinate), but I'm not sure if I should order more or if it may be better to just stop taking any supplementation (in order to allow things to balance out) and see how things go. Carolyn Dean does say that when there is extra stress going on (like a virus infection) more magnesium is needed (in the form of supplementation I guess). What do you (or others) think?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:
seek10 said:
I was looking for nutrient contents in Bone broth. is this available any where ?. My guess is Fats ( variable, any way floats ) , carbs (should be none) , proteins ( should be none if there is no meat) , calories ( I am not sure) .

I came across this in TAASOLCP (remember TAASOLCL?)

Factoid: Most packaged foods list protein content per serving on the label. To determine the protein content of bulk foods, however, it helps to use ‘the rule of sevens’. As a general estimate, one ounce of meat, fish, or poultry contains 7 grams of protein. A cup of fermented dairy (yogurt, buttermilk), an ounce of cheese, 2 ounces of nuts, a cup of home-made broth, and a large egg each contain about 7 grams of protein. So, for example, if your goal is to get a minimum 100 grams of protein per day, all you need to do is be sure that you include 14 of these 7-gram protein units in your daily diet.

Phinney, Stephen; Jeff Volek (2012-06-15). The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance (p. 68). Beyond Obesity LLC. Kindle Edition.

So that is one estimate for protein. Broth can be very high in fat. One estimate of bone marrow fat content that I came across was 25 or more grams of fat per ounce of marrow. Of course that is diluted in the broth, but it can amount to a lot of fat even if you don't add any. Protein content, of course, would depend on dilution as well.
Thank you for the reply. Once I felt hunger during IF time though I was taking bone broth , so I ate some meat and fat to avoid headache. so trying to understand what is getting restricted during IF phase. It looks it is nothing like specific thing ( like calories or protiens etc). If I am taking 2 cups of bone broth it is 14gms of protein and probably I will increase the fat in bone broth during IF and see how it goes.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Carlise said:
I have now reached around 120 pounds (5'6 male) and think that I am just getting too skinny. I have been restricting protein quite heavily, though not calculating it properly. I am still just not gaining any strength, and getting somewhat frustrated about it.

I will be experimenting with 30g of protein throughout 3 meals a day, whilst remaining at zero carb and eating lots and lots of fat to keep the ratio around 1:4 to see if I can gain some weight.

Take your time and enjoy the ride is eventually the spirit that is needed :). According to a study suggested at the beginning of the topic it may take several weeks until improvements can be seen. And this may differ from one to another person again, when it is happening.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche said:
aimarok said:
Excuse me, for going off-topic, but I'd like to know what exactly do mean when you say 'lard'? Is it a rendered fat, salted underskin fat cuts or both? I'm just curious.

I think people were referring to rendered. But speaking of under-skin fat, there is this traditional Mediterranean Italian dish called Lardo (lard) di Colonnata:

Lardo di Colonnata, to give it its full name, is a delicacy produced from pork fat in and around the Tuscan mountain town of Colonnata. Happily for fans of cured meat, it's not only a frugal way of preserving pork fat over winter - it's delicious too!

It's made in large vats known as conche, fashioned from marble quarried at the nearby 'white mountain' of Cararra, which are first liberally rubbed with garlic. Next, layers of pork fat, salt, and a special mix of herbs and spices are added until the vats are full. The conche are then sealed with a wooden lid and left in cool mountain caves for 6 months or longer to mature in the clean air.

After the maturation time is over, the conche are opened to reveal a silky-smooth, meltingly tender 'meat' which can be eaten in much the same way as Parma Ham or other prosciutto.

It should taste delicious!:

lardo-440x305.jpg


Great Psyche that Mediterranean Italian dish called Lardp di Colonnata really sound and looks delicious!

It looks like the lard in the picture is coming from a mangalitza pig since the lard is so full of fat and big.
now finding a good recipe for the quantities and sorts of herbs and spices one should use for a good end result would be nice!

What is the english name of that dish (if it exists)?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche said:
[...]
If you benefit from Vitamin D3 supplementation, make sure most of your intake comes from natural animal sources such as cod liver oil which contains other nutrients necessary for a proper metabolism. It is perhaps for this reason that cod liver oil has proved to fight off infections dramatically. We are likely to see problems if we drift away from natural animal sources. Also, keep in mind that ketosis is by far the best tool against intracellular bacteria since it promotes autophagy which in itself is the best way to get rid of both intracellular viruses and bacteria.

I think that as we go along with the ketogenic diet, our vitamin D levels will stabilize themselves naturally as all those bugs get killed. That is my hypotheses, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Thank you for the information, Psyche! I'll wait and see if staying in ketosis does the trick.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Oxajil said:
Hi Psyche, may I ask what your thoughts are on magnesium supplementation? I ran out of magnesium (glycinate), but I'm not sure if I should order more or if it may be better to just stop taking any supplementation (in order to allow things to balance out) and see how things go. Carolyn Dean does say that when there is extra stress going on (like a virus infection) more magnesium is needed (in the form of supplementation I guess). What do you (or others) think?

I would definitely keep magnesium in stock. In fact, I would keep the basic detox cocktail at hand just in case: vitamin C, magnesium and NAC. These are the kind of supplements that should only help if there is something off. You don't necessarily have to take magnesium every single day since you are taking your broth and having your fair share of minerals through that. But there would be days when it will be handy to have magnesium available.

For instance, at the beginning of ketoadaptation I had a few days where I had such a headache I thought my skull was going to split in two. I took magnesium, vitamin C and NAC and that just took care of it. I still take magnesium and NAC when I have to skip a lot of sleep due to work and it does make the difference.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

seek10 said:
Thank you for the reply. Once I felt hunger during IF time though I was taking bone broth , so I ate some meat and fat to avoid headache. so trying to understand what is getting restricted during IF phase. It looks it is nothing like specific thing ( like calories or protiens etc). If I am taking 2 cups of bone broth it is 14gms of protein and probably I will increase the fat in bone broth during IF and see how it goes.

seek10, if you are drinking broth and having your daily amount of protein plus lots of fat, I think you don't need to do the strict IF, especially if you are not feeling well doing it, and you are on the skinny side.

Did you read what Ailén wrote earlier on this thread?

Apologies if I misunderstood some of you, but it seems to me that a few members are planning on fasting every second day or so. As I understand it, this is not necessary if you are doing the protein restriction, 0 or almost 0 carbs every day, and more fat. Fasting is only needed for some, to reduce the time it takes to get into ketosis. Just FYI, in case some of you are being too strict. No need. If you want to do some fasting, you can eat your last meal of the day at around 5 or 6 pm, and then not eat anything until breakfast. That is more than enough IMO, if you stick to the diet the rest of the time.

Fasting once a week might be ok, but I still don't really see any need for that if one is sticking to the diet every day. And working out every second day seems to help a lot in the process.
 
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