The Real World > Religion
Islam
thorbiorn:
Hello,
Where to post, religion, politics, or? I choose religion. Controvercial because what has inspired is the row over the cartoons. The religion highlighted in this post is Islam; and the cartoons, their background and the responses to them.
What is Islam? What is the Quran?
Download Quran Trans 2.0 English with three commentaries: http://www.download.com/3001-2135-10443574.html
Sharia, muslim religious law site: http://i-cias.com/e.o/sharia.htm
Muslim articles on the Quran written for non-muslims can be found on: http://www.islamicity.com/Donate/default.asp?ref=5
Some titles: The Amazing Quran http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IC0106-255
Quran: A Divine Guidance or a Historical Document: http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IC0308-2058
Response to "Challenging the Quran" http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IV0308-2054
Is there Anti Semitism in the Quran? http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IC0210-1765
Books on the Koran: If you like scholarly books about Islam and islamic culture try http://www.mlbd.com they have 40+ titles.
One that caught my eye was: "Challenge to Islam for Reformation" The Rediscovery and reliable Reconstruction of a comprehensive pre-Islamic Christian Hymnal hidden in the Koran under earliest Islamic Reinterpretations (Hardcover) Author: Gunter Luling. Year of Publication: 2003. Bibliography: lxviii,580p.,abbrev.,biblo.,index.,notes.
Book Description: (I took this from Amazon.com, the price is there USD 110)
"This is a translation and considerable reworking of the 2nd German edition, titled "Uber den Ur-Koran", first published in 1974. The proof is established that the pre-Islamic Christian hymnody contained in the Korann under early Islamic reinterpretations can reliably be reconstructed. These reconstructions yield a totally new insight into the rise and early development of Islam: the intentions of Prophet Muhammad have obviously been altered by his early successors in power, often rendered into the contrary.
About the Author: Gunter Luling, a Protestant theologian, was Director of the Goethe-Institut of Aleppo/Syria and returned to university as assistant professor. He has a number of important books to his credit."
If you like Islamic theology then a good read is "The Sufi Pafth of Knowledge" by William Chittick. Albany 1989, New York State University.
How did the cartoons depicting the prophet of Islam surface? One possible explanation and serious food for thought in regard to Judaism and Christianity and Islam are the implications of Laura Knight Jadczyk's book "The Secret History of the World and How to Get out Alive". An interesting chapter in regard to religion and Islam is Chapter 10: Who wrote the Bible and why?
Below is a quote from a differnt chapter, which I include because the question of who, why, and with what intentions may not be so simple.
""The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around; what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand; most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependant on the system that that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me Neo, or were you looking at the woman in the red dress? They will fight to protect it."
We could just as well re-write this to say: When you are inside the Matrix, you look around and see Christians, Jews, Mohammedans, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Magicians... most of these people are not ready to be unplugged... they are so hopelessly inured, so hopelessly dependant on the system that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me, or were you listening to that ZionistBaptist, or purveyor of Magick and mumbo jumbo?
It was also pointed out by Morpheus that any human being who was plugged into the system could be used as an "agent" by something similar to a downloaded program that was designed to activate them in a certain way. A similar state of affairs seems to be the actual case in our reality, with the Controllers acting from some hyperdimensional space of which we have but limited awareness, and even less access." page 71 in THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE WORLD,
(t: the first paragraph must be from one of the Matrix movies. You might find the transcripts on http://matrixirtam.com/ a link I found on http://www.remoteviewinglight.com/html/remote-viewing-links.html)
Another more down to earth explanation of how the cartoon story began: "Who's afraid of Muhammad?"
http://www.signandsight.com/features/588.html "Joerg Lau explains how some cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in the Danish paper Jyllands- Posten turned into no laughing matter." "The man who catapulted Denmark into an international crisis sits in his cosy kitchen and is confused. Kare Bluitgen has generated a conflict that is robbing ambassadors and heads of state of their sleep. In the last weeks, the Saudi Arabian ambassador was pulled out of Copenhagen. On Monday, the Danish paper Jyllands-Posten received bomb threats. In Gaza, armed Palestinians stormed the EU's office, and Danish flags went up in flames. And it all began with Kare Bluitgen wanting to explain Islam to Danish children."
t: for more click link above; or below if you speak German. The article originally appeared in German in Die Zeit on February 2, 2006. http://www.zeit.de/2006/06/D_8anemark_neu?page=all - Joerg Lau was literary editor of die tageszeitung before joining the Berlin bureau of Die Zeit. He is author of the book "Hans Magnus Enzensberger - Ein Oeffentliches Leben" (Alexander Fest Verlag, 1999).
A woman, Sonia Mikich, commenting on the cartoons in "What next, bearded one?" http://www.signandsight.com/features/597.html
"Our traditional values have been trampled on and we are offended. A wake-up call.
I feel offended. Zealots are nailing veils onto the faces of my sisters in Afghanistan and Pakistan and are busy hanging women, homosexuals, adulterers and non-believers. But human rights, women's rights and the right to liberty are the most exalted in the history of humanity; this is the tradition in which I was raised. Values that make the world better and more peaceful."
t: The article originally appeared in German in die tageszeitung on February 6, 2006. http://www.taz.de/pt/2006/02/06/a0132.1/text Sonia Mikich, born 1951 in Oxford, is a television and print journalist. She hosts WDR's political magazine "Monitor."
Other links and information sites:
Muslim cartoon row timeline: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4688602.stm
The Christian paper in Norway that increased the stir on January 10th is "Magazinet" http://www.magazinet.no
Expert Warnings About Cartoons Unheeded: http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=ZD0602-2894
What the Muhammad cartoons portray: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4693292.stm
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
Freedom of Speech site has discussion, and links to images: http://www.freedomofspeech.dk/
Danish Muslims split over cartoons: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4692318.stm
Q&A: The Muhammad cartoons row: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4677976.stm
Cartoon row: Readers speak out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4674628.stm
Have Your Say: http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=1011&&edition=2&ttl=20060211084615
Sweden shuts website over cartoon: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4700414.stm
French papers in cartoon lawsuit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4702702.stm
World figures deplore cartoon row: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4691878.stm
Cartoon row editor sent on leave: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4700124.stm
Cartoon editors face mixed fates: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4700842.stm
Country profile: Denmark: (t: from an English point of view!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1032760.stm
On the flag http://danishflag.denmark.dk/
The American Jewish Committee has a response to the cartoons:
http://www.ajc.org/site/c.ijITI2PHKoG/b.851561/apps/nl/content2.asp?content_id={D5F7785C-872A-4983-B5D5-6DC9D1D28BF6}¬oc=1
From the World Socialist Web Site: "Denmark and Jyllands-Posten: The background to a provocation" http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/feb2006/denm-f10.shtml
It concludes:
"The current episode reveals the enormous dangers facing the working class from the visible decomposition of democracy in all of the capitalist countries. The promotion of anti-Muslim chauvinism, and all forms of communalist and nationalist poison, is the expression of a social system that is mired in insoluble crisis and incapable of meeting the most basic needs of the broad masses of the people.
The only antidote to such backward and reactionary politics is the development of a united movement of workers of all countries, religions and nationalities in opposition to war and in defense of democratic rights against the capitalist ruling elites and the system they uphold. The program upon which such a struggle must be based is socialist internationalism."
t: Does WSWS have a plan other than repeating slogans?
European media publish anti-Muslim cartoons: An ugly and calculated provocation http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/feb2006/cart-f04.shtml
Death toll mounts in worldwide protests against anti-Muslim cartoons http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/feb2006/cart-f08.shtml
t: What do Muslims think of the cartoons?
Cartoon comenting on cartoons: http://www.aljazeerah.info/Cartoons/2006%20Cartoons/February/10f6c.htm
On http://www.muslimwakeup.com/ there is a list of topics including a thread on the cartoons. Somebody wanted it deleted, but it may still be there. One sub-thread includes initiatives to reconcile. One post was: PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:46 am. Post subject: www.anotherdenmark.org
"Have a look at this: http://www.anotherdenmark.org/?lang=en The list is growing by the minute and the true Denmark is reaching out. Many initiatives like this is starting these days. Almost 15.000 has signed this letter in just two days: http://www.forsoningnu.dk/underskrift/english.html ..and remeber, Denmark is a small nation, so that is actually a lot :-) It is a danish site, but you can have a look if you want: http://www.forsoningnu.dk" (t: means reconcialiation now) - end of post
thorbiorn
thorbiorn:
Hi,
Here are two webcast of Ahmed Abu Laban, a leader of the muslim movement in Denmark, they were recorded on February 10th 2006 after the Friday prayer, he is positive about the progress in the situation:
http://www.infocast.dk/jp/jp.php?id=1473&offset=&category=ALL&q=
http://www.infocast.dk/jp/jp.php?id=1474&offset=&category=ALL&q=
Links were posted by the paper that published the drawings. Aslo the paper now has a small English section:
http://www.jp.dk/english_news/artikel:aid=3548990/
On http://www.signandsight.com/features/590.htm you find a survey of the European press. Very large selection of comments on the twelve cartoon story.
Muslim comments on the cartoons:
"Clash of the Uncivilized" 2/21/2006 - By: Imam Zaid Shakir IslamiCity* - http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IC0602-2920
"Cartoon Awakening" 2/23/2006 - Political - By: Ramzy Baroud Iviews* - http://iviews.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IV0602-2925
"Why the Western urge to ridicule the Prophet?" 2/25/2006 - Religious Education Political - By: Karen Armstrong IslamiCity* - http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IC0602-2928
"Not a clash of civilizations but an intellectual debate" By PHILIP SEIB Posted: Mar. 3, 2006 http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&referenceID=25001
"The Rage Game, Putting On The brakes" 3/4/2006 - Political Religious - By: Imam Abu Laith Luqman Ahmad, Iviews* - http://www.iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IV0603-2934
"Anyone who hasn't capitalized on the recent malicious caricature portrayal of the Prophet to express their outrage, promote their organization, get their name in the paper, pontificate the loftiness of Islamic ideals, start a membership drive, do a little political posturing, or to open dialogue, or defend the Prophet has missed their opportunity."
thorbiorn
Ruth:
Hello all, No doubt the PTB are overjoyed at the 'positive' (really negative) muslim response to global cointelpro that happened recently with all that anger, outrage and demonstrations directed at some cartoons. These cartoons may just be merely propaganda designed to provoke a response. And they certainly appeared to have worked.
I used to think that certain factions within the PTB might again try terrorist violence to promote anger and hatred toward muslims (Arabs) umonst western countries, but maybe they don't need to.
They just need to infuriate muslims to the point of erruption and then say to Westerners "See, look how unreasonable they are? And we've 'set them up' so completely and utterly as supposed 'terrorists', that we just have to go in there and make war for conquest and profit. It would help if you 'agreed' with us on this..."
The one thing the PTB CANNOT afford is universal questioning of the truth behind the identity of the so-called Arab 'terrorists' behind 9/11. The real identity of these people is another significant weakness in the PTB's suit of armour. Questioning the truth behind this will uncover a can of worms the likes of which has not been seen for a long time.
I think one of the more positive things to come about from this deliberately manipulated situation is the opportunity it represents for the muslim community to show people what their religion is really all about. Not politics, or war, that's for sure.
muhamad:
these are just my thoughts right now...
i think Islam is not meant to be a separate monotheistic religion like Christianity and Judaism, the word Muslim is not really only attributed to the followers of Islam per se but the followers of truth, that's why Ibraham, Jesus, Moses, etc.. are all considered Muslims, but Islam aknowledges that Christianity and specially Judaism are corrupted and not what Jesus or Moses taught.
"they write the book by their own hand"
there is no concept of trying to convert other people
there is no authority, just read the Koran, the Hadith and think
"there is no god but God" means unity not separation
of course it all can be twisted by the PTB to suit their purposes
and just for the fun of it, i think the people here at Cassiopaea.org and QFG can be considered Mujahidin since Jihad means giving your money and yourself in the way of God (AKA Truth)
as for the cartoons, the problem was the insulting, and the double standard, the hatred against Muslims can be felt in the air.
thorbiorn:
Hello,
How many kinds of Muslims?
A try would be; Sunni, Shia and the Aga Khan, ( to read a little about the last group:
http://www.ishipress.com/agakhan.htm ) In each of these there might be different styles of practicing from semi-atheist, to ultral light, light, soft, moderate, fundamentalist, and all the way to ultra extreme fundamentalism.
Next we could divide again according ethnic background, nationality, place of living, age educational level, sex, marital status, number of children, profession, income level, power of influence, political orientation, philosphical affiliation or school, hobbies if any, etc.
Next question is who is in control?
We could name this or that group, this or that man. But then who controls my or your choice of the most influencial person in Islam or any other religion? In post one I quoted: "A similar state of affairs seems to be the actual case in our reality, with the Controllers acting from some hyperdimensional space of which we have but limited awareness, and even less access." p 71 of The secret History of the World.
The argument continues on p 583:
"When you are considering hyperdimensional realities and beings with mastery over space and time, the thousands of years needed to develop any given aspect of the overall plan is negligible; human beings, no matter how important they believe themselves to be, are merely useful idiots who have been manipulated. In consideration of such beings, we come again to the idea of hyperdimensional space - known as "4ht density" - and its denizens."
What are the ways we are influenced by denizens of hyperdimensional space?
"It was also pointed out by Morpheus that any human being who was plugged into the system could be used as an "agent" by something similar to a downloaded program that was designed to activate them in a certain way." - ibid. p 71
Here we have an allusion to the idea of mind programming and genetic progamming, which are explained in other materials on this site, although it does not seem to be limited to that as we read in the following.
"...they [the Cassiopaean comments] were able to deepen our understanding by situating the pre-adamic race within hyperdimensional reality and the Matrix control system. Let's look at four points they raised:
The preadamic-race serve as portals between levels of density.
They are "very efficient machines" and "The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation"
They steal energy from souled beings so as to emulate them.
They make-up one-half of humanity." ibid p 177
How could the above excerpt change our perspective of any religion? Every religon claims to be the one that will save the souls of its adherents and here somebody comes along and gives us reason to consider that 50 % of all individuals do not have Soul potencial. In the book there is a drawing on page 692 (my copy anyway) which shows two individuals with 7 centres or chakras, but the OP feeds on energy from the potencially souled individual to mimick its higher centers.
The application of this knowledge is described next.
"In order to progress in esoteric work, it is fundamental to understand this underlying dynamic of feeding; it is pointless and dangerous to attempt to identify and to classify individuals as organic portals because we are all OPs until we choose to be otherwise. To turn a tool for undestanding the true terror of our situation in this world of the fallen into a weapon aginst individuals is to empty it of its spiritual importance and render it a tool of our enslavement in the material world, the same process that has occured to all of the world's religions during the course of our unhappy history.
A true understanding of the organic portal and the world in which we live gives us the knowledge necessary for getting out "alive", whether that is literally or whether it is just being alive to our true nature as souls locked in material bodies in order to learn important lessons that only this world can teach. We can no more hate those who have no access to the higher truths because of who they are than we can hate the cat who plays with the mouse prior to killing and eating it" - ibid p 693:
Many religions say that it is the best and only version. Now try to consider this, if you believe in a God. Do you think they/he/she/it/our super self or what ever we call it, is infinite? Now if it is infinite why can one not imagine another Universe or another alternative reality where things are different. If we can imagine it, why should it not exist if that "God" concept also is omnipotent?
"Q: .... How many dimensions does the true universe have? A: (Cassiopaea) Not correct concept. Should be: How many universes does the "true dimension have?" Q: (L) All right, then. I think that from a previous sesseion we were told that the number of universes was not countable. Is that correct? A: Infinite, maybe, but more to the point: variable and selective. Q: (L) Explain variable and selective, please? A: For those who know how, universes can be created at will in order to transmodify reality merge. Q: (L) What is a reality merge? A: What does it sound like? Q: (T) Merging of realities from one universe into another? A creating of a new reality which is then merged with the old to create a new universe. (L) Maybe it means the realities of different people merge to create a sort of "mutual unverse"? Like the idea "you create your own reality"? A: T closer; Laura playing "left field." ibid. 621
"Q: (L) ... is there within this one true dimension, multiple universes as real as our is, to which we could go, and could be there alongside ours, so to speak? A: Yes ..." ibid 622.
t: for difficult terms and more angles try the SOTT's esoteric dictionary or the books. This it just a condensed version.
Next let us apply the perspective we have collected to the cartoon story by asking some questions.
Is the cartoon story only in this universe?
Is it somebody from the future that came back to wake us up?
Is it a setup to slowly lead humanity to self destruction like forecasted in
http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm or http://ww-iii.tripod.com ? If it hurts to read consider: "Nothing in war comes to destruction, but the illusion of separateness." - from the poem Compassion at http://www.wingmakers.com/poetry/poetrychamber1.html
Is the cartoon story a tempest in a tea cup or a crusade or a catastrophe or a catharsis?
Is it as some claim a group of Danish artists who were testing their degree of self sensorship and then due to "non-linear" effects it went out of hand?
Is it a 4th density STS setup with players on both sides Muslim and not creating a stir?:
On the 12th of February there appeared an article in the Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten,
It read:
"Wrong information from Imams, by Orla Borg and Lars Noergaard Pedersen.
Those Imamas, who travelled as a delegation to the Middle East to tell about the Mohammed drawings gave downright incorrect information about the rights of Muslims in Denmark.In their prepared document of 43 pages they wrote the following about the situtions of Muslims in Denmark: "The faithful of their religion suffer due to a number of circumstances, first and foremost the lacking official recognition of the Islamic faith, which leads to several problems, most obvious is the lacking permission to build Mosques, and they are therefore forced to rebuild company buildings and warehouses for places of prayer."
Both claims are wrong. There are in Denmark 19 Islamic societies of faith, which are recognized by the Danish Government and there is nothing that prevents Muslims in building Mosques. In Copenhagen there is even reserved a place for a Mosque. In the document the Danes are in addition considered as "infidels"." end of article.
No matter who or what created the stir of the cartoons, it can be perceived
as an opportunity to reach out and reconcile,
as an opportunity to isolate oneself behind thicker layers of assumptions,
as an opportunity to strengthen fundamentalist Muslims and conservative Christians
as an opportunity to pave the way for more antiterror laws, internet censorship, id cards, chips, and close circuit cameras in every corner to "protect" property and people.
The one I like most is to consider the cartoons as an opportunity to wake up and question ones beliefs. Who am I? What is truth? What is a lie? What do I believe in? Do we believe all they told us in childhood, in school, in the mosque, in the church, synagogue, or tempel. Do I have a soul? Where am I going? Will we walk together?
thorbiorn
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