Bullied children can suffer lasting psychological harm as adults

Buddy said:

history said:

Buddy said:

I've not seen any evidence of an across-the-board answer that would apply to everyone in your question. I have read studies that suggest a link between a compulsion to visit personal traumas on others and whether or not a trauma victim believed (s)he was responsible for what happened to him or her during the original traumatic event. Those traumas are said to be the ones that people split off from and "forget."

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Sorry, this is confusing for me. Will you please restate? Thanks.

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Yep, studies of German concentration camp survivors, for instance. Following up on some survivors later in life, it was found that people or groups who always knew they were not responsible for what happened to them were able to function more or less normally in society and without an evident need to punish anyone for what they had suffered. Lloyd deMause cites these kinds of studies in his psycho-history work.

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This I understand. Thanks.

Buddy said:

This is contrasted with other studies concerning people who have undergone hypnosis during cognitive therapy. Patients recall the kinds of things that were said to them about how they deserved their treatments; that they believed what they were being told. The patients make their own connections between their earlier experiences and the problems for which they sought therapy to begin with. The patients were unable to remember these occurrences in their ordinary waking life while other patients could remember similar traumatizing events that contained different postulates and beliefs about what they were experiencing.

I don't see how it could be any other way. If I experienced that much physical and emotional pain at one time and also believed it was my fault, I couldn't live with myself. I'd have to either commit suicide or bury it very deeply in order to justify continued existence. Could I be the only one who thinks that?

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I'm still confused by what you are saying. You are a bit over my head. I thought your point was that if the person thought it was their fault they were more likely to be offenders later in life to exact some sort of revenge. Here I think you are adding in something else about fault and the inability to carry on with that belief. Sorry, again, your knowledge is beyond my current level. Thanks.

history said:

I thought your point was that if the person thought it was their fault they were more likely to be offenders later in life to exact some sort of revenge?

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My apologies for any confusion, but yes, that was my point. They don't realize what belief they carry, though, because their active traumatic memories are just below the conscious threshold. When people dramatize their traumas, it might or might not be "revenge" in a conscious sense, but it will represent an emotional need to resolve the original experience into some kind of understanding.

history said:

Here I think you are adding in something else about fault and the inability to carry on with that belief? Sorry, again, your knowledge is beyond my current level. Thanks.

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In an absence of hard proof, that's just an attempt to convey my personal feeling that the idea being expressed is correct. If you're picking up something else from that, just quote the problem statement and I'll attempt to further clarify the meaning.

history said:

I thought your point was that if the person thought it was their fault they were more likely to be offenders later in life to exact some sort of revenge?

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Buddy said:

My apologies for any confusion, but yes, that was my point. They don't realize what belief they carry, though, because their active traumatic memories are just below the conscious threshold. When people dramatize their traumas, it might or might not be "revenge" in a conscious sense, but it will represent an emotional need to resolve the original experience into some kind of understanding.

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This I understand. Yes.

history said:

Here I think you are adding in something else about fault and the inability to carry on with that belief? Sorry, again, your knowledge is beyond my current level. Thanks.

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Buddy said:

In an absence of hard proof, that's just an attempt to convey my personal feeling that the idea being expressed is correct. If you're picking up something else from that, just quote the problem statement and I'll attempt to further clarify the meaning.

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Your writing is just a little off/advanced for me. I will think more on how to ask what I am not understanding here and get back to you. Thanks for your patience. :)

Nuke said:

And thanks for your post, obyvatel. Also a good reminder, as I have not read In An Unspoken Voice yet.

The hardest part in your summary seems to be the forgiving part as of now.
Even if I'm trying to be externally considerate, not to be judgmental either towards myself or others, because after all, we can only act according to our current level of knowledge and being.
But I find that hard to apply to these 'people'. More likely OPs, at least in my case.
That constant terrorizing for years for 'fun'..

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Hi Nuke,
I think that healing is a process that proceeds in steps and forgiveness comes at the end. Most of one's efforts are needed to acknowledge the effect that bullying had on the self. It is useful to retrace the path and see what emotions were aroused - usually there is not one but quite a few of them. Could be a combination or sequence of anger, fear, helplessness, despair, shame etc. There would be thoughts associated with these emotions - for example in one's imagination, one could punish the bullies himself or see justice being done in some way.

The anger at the bullies for what they did and at the authorities for doing nothing are usually easier to identify. On the other hand, one can intellectually acknowledge shame, hurt and helplessness associated with the incident in superficial terms but it is not easy to seriously do this in real emotional depth because it makes one feel weak and invalidated. It is easier to carry the anger along since it gives the illusion of "doing something about it" compensating for the lack of action which may not have been possible at the time of bullying. This anger from the past however causes problems at the present time and prevents healing. One can unconsciously keep on trying to get justice for these past wrongs in many twisted ways. It could lead to depression and other psychosomatic problems (anger turned inwards); it could turn into a chronic distrust and disdain for whatever is considered as authority and a general loss of faith regarding life and universe; it could lead to abusive relationships in a vain unconscious effort to somehow get a better resolution to the past issues etc.

It is important to acknowledge the depth of the emotional hurt that was experienced at the time of bullying with a feeling of genuine self-compassion instead of shame or self-pity. As this happens, the anger can go down by itself or it can be redirected through writing exercises or safe physical actions. It is a strong possibility that the victim of bullying who has been carrying along a lot of resentment due to past events has caused hurt to the self and/or others (perhaps unintentionally) in some way because of these wounds. The realization that one could be responsible for such actions towards others act as motivation to change one's views towards the self (as victim) as well as the bullies. The bullies may become more "human" in one's mind. After this, forgiveness is natural as my understanding of forgiveness is that it is a refusal to indulge in hating and seeking satisfaction in the imagined punishment of the offender.

Even if the bullies were psychopathic in nature, it helps to think that they are "hardwired" to behave that way. If one is bitten by an animal, one does not emotionally resent the animal and wish for revenge. It is only rational to learn the lessons from these events, get healed and move along in life.

Hope this makes some sense - fwiw

[quote author="Nuke"]
I've been thinking about this since you posted it, Carlise but I still don't understand how bullied people can become bullies.
At least not with a basic intelligence quotient. I mean if there's Anyone that should understand what bullies do to those kids and the damage they cause it should be them! So why on earth inflict any damage the effects of which you're absolutely aware of?? They just forget about how it made them feel or their need for revenge on innocent people is stronger? Or are they that stupid?
[/quote]

I'm not too sure if it actually works that way, i.e. in the same way narcissistic wounds cause people to do the same damage to others.
However, the whole school system is one big food chain, with the psycho kids at the top, and then in decreasing order based on confidence and anxiety levels. As a child, your temperament, upbringing and previous life experiences determine how you interact with that food chain. A child with a healthy substratum, sense of self-worth, and sense of moral obligation may well be able to withstand bullying, see it for what it is, and react appropriately, without becoming an abuser themselves.

I, however, was not so lucky. My father managed to instill in me a strong aggressive streak, while at the same time pretty much destroying my self esteem. Starting high school through ages 11-14 I was very near the bottom of the chain, with extreme social anxiety, and school was an absolute nightmare. I would let the psychological wounds build and build, until eventually lashing out violently and getting in trouble. When in the relative safety of my small group of good friends, I would unconsciously take it out on them with mean spirited put downs. We all had very little conscience or strength of will, so would not stand up for each other when abuse was given by energetically stronger kids.

After these first 3 years I developed a new network of 'friends', and the same thing continued. We'd all be putting each other down and trying to get on top, and never had the maturity to actually work together or be good and genuine to one another. This lead to one bullying incident in our group, where a 'friend' couldn't take it and actually left the school because of it. I took part in this, and realising the consequences of my actions was one of the first shocks to the awakening of conscience, I truly felt compassion for the poor lad and my actions still haunt me. That's when I realised theres more to life than being an jerk and trying to survive by feeding off others.

I guess, as the result of many things, I just never had an emotional centre to speak of. Not since being a very young child exploring my neighbourhood with an open heart to make friends, and being hit over the head by kids with plastic poles, anyway.

OK, this I can relate to; but I have more questions than answers.

I was bullied in varying degrees in my primary school, and two secondary schools located 75 miles apart. This manifested itself in the form of name calling, challenging to fights, and occasionally physical abuse. I can identify that in all occasions it was a few "leaders" who urged others to "pick" on me, but the question here is "What attracts the bullies?" There must be something in ones make-up that attracts their attention, makes you the target. BTW I was not the only one these guys bullied, but as a child I can remember thinking at times better them than me, which with hindsight was a bit selfish.

In primary school, as a result of bullying, I was referred to the child psychologist, who after about six weekly visits ( approx., this was nearly 50 years ago) declared I had a very active imagination, more so than most, but was otherwise normal ( Me normal hmm).

I remember that on occasions, these guys would lay in wait to "attack" on our way home. My solution to this was to go home with a friend who lived in the opposite direction to me, and camp out with him until 20-22:00. Understandably this drove my parents a little nuts, as I was 7-8 at the time. Oddly this same behaviour worked at secondary school by changing the route home daily.

There continued a little bullying when I first went to college, but after the second year, it stopped. Almost like someone closed the gate!

So here we have 4 locations, totally independent where I was the target of some form of bullying, so there must be something in the target (me in this case) that attracts them.

One thing I have observed, is that the main bullies in the two secondary schools were always the top of class, and always presented as an example by teachers and headmasters alike.

The very odd thing I have also observed, is that in the cases of the two secondary schools, I know of 3 of these men who the last time I saw them were working as garbage collectors; I would not say odd except they live 75 miles apart...

Those are the facts I can recall, and my personal opinion is that if one could identify what attracts the bullies, then maybe help could be offered to those in the same position right now.. But even now at 56, I cannot see what the trigger is?

Personal Long Term Effects:

Self assessed long term effects: Few I would say, but one does linger, if I am confronted with a no-way-out situation, I simply verbally explode.. ( As I remember there were times I did this when our friendly bullies were taunting; amazing how fast they disappear when their target starts generating many decibels of noise)..

John Ainhirn-Williams said:

OK, this I can relate to; but I have more questions than answers.

I was bullied in varying degrees in my primary school, and two secondary schools located 75 miles apart. This manifested itself in the form of name calling, challenging to fights, and occasionally physical abuse. I can identify that in all occasions it was a few "leaders" who urged others to "pick" on me, but the question here is "What attracts the bullies?" There must be something in ones make-up that attracts their attention, makes you the target. BTW I was not the only one these guys bullied, but as a child I can remember thinking at times better them than me, which with hindsight was a bit selfish.

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Just guessing here. But maybe it works the same way with victims of bullies as with victims of psychopaths. Or bullies are probably sometimes psychopaths. Could it be that you were targeted because of your positive traits. The way victims of psychopaths are targeted because of their high sensitivity, empathy and so on.

obyvatel said:

I have not come across a book dealing exclusively with psychological effects of bullying but this is what I have picked up from various psychological material and personal experience. One subconscious message that is internalized as a result of bullying is that the world is not a safe place and it can result in general social anxiety and panic attacks as research shows. Bullying by peers can also lead to deep anger which can be subconsciously directed against authority figures or the self.

Anger against authority comes from their unwillingness to stop the bullying which is accompanied by a pervading sense of unfairness about the whole world. This can result in acting out later in direct (breaking rules, defying laws without any real purpose) or indirect ways (general cynicism and passive forms of defiance).

Anger against the self may come from self-blame for being unable to stand up to bullies. One who is bullied feels weak, helpless and invalidated and may start hating oneself for that especially since the bullies are from the peer group. This anger against the self can give rise to depression. It can also result in bullying others to redeem one's weak and helpless self-image. We need to be careful in distinguishing bullies with essential character disturbance and those who are reacting to wounds inflicted by others in this regard.

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With the exception of bullying of others, I recognise all the symptoms you mention in myself. John Taylor Gatto also - without reference to bullying - mentions school instilling provisional self-esteem and causing the formation of a false self beneath which one's true self is hidden (much like narcissistic wounding, though here as an expected consequence of how things work in shool). Bullying added on top of that, I think, would cause one or more of the things you listed, which would then be baked into these total results of school, often giving an end result very much like that of growing up with abusive narcissists.

Except maybe with one difference - the narcissism and false self instilled in one's psychology would be a comparatively late addition, and so, even if strongly present, would be less likely to "cover" the whole person, making recovery more possible in that the possibility for self-scrutiny is not completely blocked off.

obyvatel said:

The first step towards healing would most likely involve recognizing how bullying has affected oneself and one's views about reality. This may bring a lot of anger to the surface which needs to be dealt with appropriately. Writing exercises as well as physical activity to dissipate the trapped energy of the sympathetic arousal (like what is suggested by Peter Levine in "In An Unspoken Voice") are very useful in this regard. Some say that to heal it is important to forgive the perpetrators. Forgiveness can come only after a deep and complete acknowledgement of the pain suffered from the abuse and the accompanying practice of self-compassion which can then be extended to others. Forgiveness used in this sense does not mean any reconciliation (if there is still any contact with perpetrators) but consciously bringing to light and giving up any unconscious desire for punishment for others. The question of justice is best left to the universe to handle. Thus one can regain one's sense of self-worth that was damaged by the abuse and gradually work on reaffirming one's faith in the universe as well.

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Sounds similar to the practical part of what is recommended to those who've suffered at the hands of narcissists.

I think it makes sense, as the rewiring of the adaptive unconscious would likely be similar - again, except perhaps the depth to which the wounding goes - as well as the nature of triggers for emotional programs instilled, the contexts within which triggering occurs.

It's been meaningful for me to take some of the information in books about narcissism and "map it" to school and bullying situations. I guess a more topic-focused practice of writing exercises would likewise be a natural addition - strangely, the idea of just focusing on the bullying, including situations, perpetrators and effects hadn't occurred to me.

obyvatel said:

Hi Nuke,
I think that healing is a process that proceeds in steps and forgiveness comes at the end. Most of one's efforts are needed to acknowledge the effect that bullying had on the self. It is useful to retrace the path and see what emotions were aroused - usually there is not one but quite a few of them. Could be a combination or sequence of anger, fear, helplessness, despair, shame etc. There would be thoughts associated with these emotions - for example in one's imagination, one could punish the bullies himself or see justice being done in some way.

The anger at the bullies for what they did and at the authorities for doing nothing are usually easier to identify. On the other hand, one can intellectually acknowledge shame, hurt and helplessness associated with the incident in superficial terms but it is not easy to seriously do this in real emotional depth because it makes one feel weak and invalidated. It is easier to carry the anger along since it gives the illusion of "doing something about it" compensating for the lack of action which may not have been possible at the time of bullying. This anger from the past however causes problems at the present time and prevents healing. One can unconsciously keep on trying to get justice for these past wrongs in many twisted ways. It could lead to depression and other psychosomatic problems (anger turned inwards); it could turn into a chronic distrust and disdain for whatever is considered as authority and a general loss of faith regarding life and universe; it could lead to abusive relationships in a vain unconscious effort to somehow get a better resolution to the past issues etc.

It is important to acknowledge the depth of the emotional hurt that was experienced at the time of bullying with a feeling of genuine self-compassion instead of shame or self-pity. As this happens, the anger can go down by itself or it can be redirected through writing exercises or safe physical actions. It is a strong possibility that the victim of bullying who has been carrying along a lot of resentment due to past events has caused hurt to the self and/or others (perhaps unintentionally) in some way because of these wounds. The realization that one could be responsible for such actions towards others act as motivation to change one's views towards the self (as victim) as well as the bullies. The bullies may become more "human" in one's mind. After this, forgiveness is natural as my understanding of forgiveness is that it is a refusal to indulge in hating and seeking satisfaction in the imagined punishment of the offender.

Even if the bullies were psychopathic in nature, it helps to think that they are "hardwired" to behave that way. If one is bitten by an animal, one does not emotionally resent the animal and wish for revenge. It is only rational to learn the lessons from these events, get healed and move along in life.

Hope this makes some sense - fwiw

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Hi obyvatel,

Yes, it does make sense, thank you. Forgiveness definitely comes at the end, as the last step before one can move on. I think that's why it seemed so far from where I am currently.

I do think of psychopaths as 'hardwired' to behave the way they do and I do try to be non-judgmental but it depends on my current divisible 'I'. I have become so judgmental over those years that I still get angry at people who display ignorance e.g., depending on my 'mood' and other outer circumstances. Sometimes when people bring in a bag of McDonald's food and say: 'I know it's bad but I don't care' e.g.

The main justification being behind this is that shocking can possibly help people as it helped me in the past. Nowadays though, even if I have judgmental thoughts, I keep them to myself.

obyvatel said:

This anger from the past however causes problems at the present time and prevents healing. One can unconsciously keep on trying to get justice for these past wrongs in many twisted ways. It could lead to depression and other psychosomatic problems (anger turned inwards); it could turn into a chronic distrust and disdain for whatever is considered as authority and a general loss of faith regarding life and universe; it could lead to abusive relationships in a vain unconscious effort to somehow get a better resolution to the past issues etc.

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It does cause problems and prevents healing as you wrote. And it pretty much affected me the way you described. Except for the relationship part which became like the ultimate need to counter the effects of being bullied.
I.e. in relationships, I'm too nice. I tend to 'want to be a hero' and save the day and always be there for the person I love and overdo it. This was the major issue in why my last relationship didn't work out, I was 'too much'.

obyvatel said:

Hope this makes some sense - fwiw

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Yes, it does. It makes a lot of sense. And thank you. I just ordered 'In an unspoken voice' and will re-read your post from time to time and try to work this out.

I need to correct myself as I've given the wrong example in my previous post.

Sheer Ignorance has never made me angry, only sad - like me co-worker bekng overweight and complaining but then getting mcdonald's for lunch or the psychoanalyst chugging down on aspartame - but I might react to it if I was angry because of something else that happened earlier.

And the thing that angers me the most and most frequently is inconsiderate people. And at work, I cannot communicate with 80% of my co-workers because they don't speak English. And the inconsiderate ones are among them.

Mariama said:

Just guessing here. But maybe it works the same way with victims of bullies as with victims of psychopaths. Or bullies are probably sometimes psychopaths. Could it be that you were targeted because of your positive traits. The way victims of psychopaths are targeted because of their high sensitivity, empathy and so on.

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I just had a go at the Brainworks Left Brain Right Brain test, though as I have done many others in the past, the results were no surprise.

But maybe the more Feminine brain together with:

JAW, you are moderately right-hemisphere dominant and have even preferences between auditory and visual processing, traits that might make people perceive you as "slightly off balance."

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Is part of the answer. I mean "Boys" are meant to be "Boys", not some empathetic odd ball.

I know that child psychology has come a long way since the early 60's, but by the time a bullied child gets there, a lot of damage has already been done. I also know that most parents will not know when their child starts being bullied, as a child is a very adaptable beast and can learn quickly to duck and weave the attacks of bullies, I sure did. And don't forget it is unforgivable for any child to snitch on the bad behaviour of another!

It is not until either physical or mental violence become public that teachers or parents know there is a problem, and this can take months or even years.

I would like to think there is some method of identifying a bullied child, or better yet one that is likely to be bullied, but as said children are very adaptable, and this probably also plays a role in abused children (which I was not).

Question: Has anyone produced a profiling tool similar to the Brainworks and Find Your Brain Sex quizzes that could be thrown at children to identify those likely to be the targets of bullies? I am most definitely no psychologist, but I do know what I experienced, and that it is no fun, especially when you don't know why!

John Ainhirn-Williams said:

I just had a go at the Brainworks Left Brain Right Brain test, though as I have done many others in the past, the results were no surprise.

But maybe the more Feminine brain together with:

JAW, you are moderately right-hemisphere dominant and have even preferences between auditory and visual processing, traits that might make people perceive you as "slightly off balance."

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Is part of the answer. I mean "Boys" are meant to be "Boys", not some empathetic odd ball.

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I taught at a secondary school for a while and there were some kids that had this special Christian faith. They were dressed a certain way, but they were really nice kids. Or so I thought. They didn't tease or bully, they just did their work and left everybody in peace. I had one of them in my class. If he was given the chance he was spontaneous. Still, he was bullied. I wasn't much of a hero, but I did stop the bullying when I noticed it. When I met his parents at parents' night they thanked me for defending their son. Which meant that he could talk to them about it. I suspect that lots of kids can't really talk to their parents about anything. Let alone, about serious issues. :(

I don't think that you were an "odd ball" and I think you shouldn't talk about yourself this way, even if this is the way these kids saw you. They were wrong. FWIW.

Funny that anger is mentioned in this thread. I never felt any reason to be angry about the things that happened in my past. Of course, learning about narcissists and predators can open up the possibility for one to CHOOSE to get angry and indignant, but I think it takes a bit of self-compromise to get into that state. Giving in to the Predator's Mind. Like, feeling as if one is entitled to things that were denied one, a dash of self-importance, refusal to take responsibility, or something.

I was preyed upon by a psychopathic boy in high school. I didn't enjoy it, but it wasn't the only thing going on in my life. I was alive and growing up, whether I liked it or not. My brain was operating furiously as I faced each situation with near-zero wisdom. Through childish ignorance I had lost acquaintances, so by the time puberty hit me I was extremely socially insecure and with few solid friends. I was ripe for the picking, and on the very first day of that school year the psychopathic boy moved in for the kill (previously he had only tested the waters to see how far he could manipulate me). If I am to blame anyone, it should be 4D STS, and who could blame them for capitalizing on such opportunities for attack and corruption? In their words, "We let them," and in a way we do, don't we?

I was frustrated by my hangups, and how I sank further and further into social isolation because of those hangups, and because I was being preyed upon. I thought, oh if only this psychopathic boy wasn't sitting next to me, watching my every move, ready to sabotage any little effort I made to connect with another person - if only! And I think seeing my hangups and how they affected every moment, every interaction... brought a bit of personal responsibility into the picture.

Looking at the psychopathy literature today, I can compare the descriptions I read to that boy, and even do so with a mental chuckle. I don't know if I'd have immediately, viscerally grokked psychopathy if I had not first encountered a strain of it back in high school - if I had not met the jaguar for myself.

During the period of bullying, I once sought help from the Internet. Boy, what were these kids talking about? Getting into fights, being called names, getting punched in the face by the bully... what? That wasn't the bullying I knew. The bullying I knew was - inhuman. Malevolent. Lying. Sadistic. Shrewd. Manipulative. Like an energizer bunny defaming me to all who bothered to listen. Without conscience, no matter how many times I tried to make good with him. Systematically cutting me off from what few friends I had left. A talker. Using my quirks and hangups against me in order to torment me - scary that he KNEW what my quirks and hangups were in the first place. Spilled acid on his hands during Chemistry, walked past me and gripped my arm hard with his acid covered hands.

I thought, But I'm not getting punched in the nose, and I have no fractured bones, so maybe I don't qualify as being bullied?

(But he would smile to see me die, and I bet he already gets off on my pain and suffering...)

And to top it off, the reason he gave was this: "I'm only doing to him, what HE did to ME!" The thing is, it's possible that in my more immature years, when I mingled freely and naively, I might have "offended" him, thus earning for myself status of prime target for destruction.

At the same time, I noticed how odd he was, how off, in little ways. It disgusted me. And now, of course, I know about malfunctioning organic portals.

Towards the end of high school, he was satisfied with his work - he had torn me down, now I was to be cast away. In the beginning he had stuck to me with intent to manipulate, now he told me to leave when I dumbly, mechanically, walked up. (But I think there was value in these experiences in that I was stripped of self-importance.)

Starting higher education was great. There was this inner joy at swimming in what felt like clean water... and it seemed as if the universe was "opening up" for me, throwing opportunities - and people - my way. I still had a long way to go, a lot more maturation and refinement to do, but I will mention that my social inhibition was often a lifesaver when more coarse impulses sought release, though like all things it was merely mechanical and had to be balanced, after some hard knocks (lessons).

Long before I discovered this forum, my life had already changed so much since the psychopathic boy that when I would imagine running into him again, I thought of acting pleasant and civil, if only out of worry that he might decide to prey on me again. Not what I'd do now, knowing what I know about psychopaths, but I guess my point is, I didn't really feel much anger. I felt my fear of the jaguar.

I do feel a pinch of regret, at what could have been back in high school had my hangups not eroded my relationships with those good people who were worth something to me - but what with a psychopath on my back and no knowledge of how to deal with it...

Sorry about this long post. I hope this isn't becoming a habit.

Just until last year I guess, the bullying topic was spreading. Now I see commercials about it, and people talking about it, but before it was like none existent.

I've read testimonials of people that went to the war, most of them never went really into war, but the point was how they were manipulated and bullied by their superiors, and at the end, they ended with pretty much similar symptoms of being bullied in school. If you are being bullied in school, and then when you are out of that social ambient, it is pretty hard to keep going normally and behaving normally or productively, because you lost confidence, you become anxious, depressive. The same stressful effects that are produced in war are produced in school, and I can't believe how people these days praise science and all that, and haven't deal with bullying as seriously until now, I can't believe that people send their children to schools that can twist them as much as if they went to a stressful social ambient like those soldiers that went to irak.

Bullying I think, is not just a problem in school but is a problem with roots in all countries population control, right now it will be beneficial to educate people on what their children are going to confront in the future, not just how they have to change the diapers and prepare the milk, but on how to support and help their children in this kind of situations, and in a lot of toxic interrelationships with people.
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Anyways I thought my case was severe, because I mean, I was bullied and in complete conflict with people at school, without support and even being bullied at my house by my father. But then in one of my classes in university a teacher told us about a case of a girl, and jesus she is immerse in a complete worse situation, she at her 15 is self-mutilating, is into drugs, is into chronic depression, and his parents think that she is completely wrong and they hope she could be as happy as one of their nephews.

It made me so angry, because right now a lot of people are planning on having children as if this world is all about a happy life, they are completely inconsiderate in creating a life that can be so wounded. Just having babies like if they were producing a cute toy, first they enjoy it but when problems begin they never really commit to support their children.

Prometeo said:

I've read testimonials of people that went to the war, most of them never went really into war, but the point was how they were manipulated and bullied by their superiors, and at the end, they ended with pretty much similar symptoms of being bullied in school. If you are being bullied in school, and then when you are out of that social ambient, it is pretty hard to keep going normally and behaving normally or productively, because you lost confidence, you become anxious, depressive. The same stressful effects that are produced in war are produced in school, and I can't believe how people these days praise science and all that, and haven't deal with bullying as seriously until now, I can't believe that people send their children to schools that can twist them as much as if they went to a stressful social ambient like those soldiers that went to irak.

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And now you have the perfect combination of war and schooling for the PTB:

http://www.sott.net/article/260549-16-NRA-Police-State-solutions-that-will-turn-US-schools-into-gun-crazy-nightmares

It will just add to the already existing traumas in young people. It is so utterly insane. Parents should withdraw their kids en masse and start home educating them. OSIT. We can't expose our kids to this madness.