Author Topic: Melatonin  (Read 94164 times)

Offline Pierre

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Melatonin
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2007, 12:06:00 AM »
Quote from: Jsf
Where do we can find melatonin in france ?

(I'm going to china tomorrow)
I didn't find any melatonin in France. I buy it from overseas online stores.
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Offline Vulcan59

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Melatonin
« Reply #91 on: April 14, 2007, 12:10:25 AM »
Hi Axel_Dunor,

I have trouble getting it locally as well. Could you give us a link to the online store that you use?
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Offline mkrnhr

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« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2007, 04:06:21 PM »
I've been told that in france you can buy it if you have...heu... ok it is for friends in france : Il faut avoir une ordonnance et même avec ça il est pas évident de s'en procurer en pharmacie. I would like to know too where to find it online if possible :)
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Offline agni

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Melatonin
« Reply #93 on: May 16, 2007, 04:21:49 PM »
Keep in mind that there seems to be a difference in malatonin products of different brands.

Natrol Melatonin: Melatonin (mg) 3, Vit B6 (mg) 10, Calcium (mg) 63

Has very little affect (on me at least). Still can wake up at night, or have problem falling asleep. Dreams are not so often, unless I take at least 6mg. I am wondering if effects of it are lessened due to increased B6 intake, if I am not mistaken B6 dosage is x5 daily serving.

Nature Made Melatonin: Melatonin (mg) 3

Has the best affect. Knocks me out good even if 1.5mg is taken. Not waking up at night and falling asleep fast. Many dreams, but for some reason can't remember any at all (just know that I had them).
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Offline Nomad

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Melatonin
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2007, 09:55:52 PM »
I got some online from biovea (I couldn't find it in any 'real' shops)
Their french website also sells it:  http://www.biovea-france.com
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Offline Regulattor

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Melatonin
« Reply #95 on: May 30, 2007, 03:38:54 PM »
As I can tell melatonin is forbidden for sale in EU, at least in syntetic form. However if you have problem finding product whit melatonin label on it, I suggest you should search for plants containing melatonin. Try TANACETUM PARTHENIUM, you can find it in Natural Wealth product called Migratan or Hypericum perforatum, though I prefer first one. Since I've faced same problem (you can't find melatonin in drugstore) I am using this product based on Tanacetum parthenium (capsule contains 380 mg of plant, but how much melatonin is inside it - that i don't know). It works, believe me!

Offline mkrnhr

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Melatonin
« Reply #96 on: June 06, 2007, 04:16:43 PM »
what's the maximum dosage of melatonin to take? I'm overweighted and I guess I could take more then 3g to sense an effect, is it? I got it from biovea and it just made me having some... dreams of very close relationships with a woman I don't know. But in the morning I was very awake and in a good mood and feeling clear minded. should I take more?
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Offline SAO

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Melatonin
« Reply #97 on: June 06, 2007, 05:15:40 PM »
Quote from: MKRNHR
what's the maximum dosage of melatonin to take? I'm overweighted and I guess I could take more then 3g to sense an effect, is it? I got it from biovea and it just made me having some... dreams of very close relationships with a woman I don't know. But in the morning I was very awake and in a good mood and feeling clear minded. should I take more?
Well, if you liked the woman and the dream, why not? :P

On a serious note, what you said reminds me of what the C's told Laura:

Quote from: C's
Q: (L) Why should we take the Melatonin?
A: Is mild hallucinogen.
Q: (L) Why do we need this?
A: Keeps exercising psychic abilities and opens paths. Don't be alarmed by vividly erotic dreams.
Q: (L) Should we expect to have vividly erotic dreams?
A: Possible as psyche passes through levels on ascension.
I don't know what a good dosage is though.

Offline Z

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Melatonin
« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2007, 05:25:25 PM »
Quote from: Regulattor
As I can tell melatonin is forbidden for sale in EU, at least in syntetic form.
Not really true, Malta is EU and syntetic melatonin is readily available from the pharmacies  and even from health  food shoops. No restrictions whatsoever.

Also I am pretty much sure it is available in the UK.
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Offline Regulattor

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Melatonin
« Reply #99 on: June 06, 2007, 10:32:45 PM »
Quote from: Deckard
Quote from: Regulattor
As I can tell melatonin is forbidden for sale in EU, at least in syntetic form.
Not really true, Malta is EU and syntetic melatonin is readily available from the pharmacies  and even from health  food shoops. No restrictions whatsoever.

Also I am pretty much sure it is available in the UK.
Well, I did my homework before I've posted this. UK & Switzerland are exceptions.
Check this out:
----
Supplement versions of melatonin are widely available in health food and vitamin shops in the United States for use as a sleeping aid. Melatonin is, however, not legal for sale in the European Union. Source: http://sleepapnea.inside-yourself.com/Melatonin_as_a_Sleep_Aid_br.php
----
Please note that the sale of DHEA or Melatonin is not available, legally in Australia or any member nations of the
European Union (excluding the United Kingdom & Switzerland). Customers must  have a valid prescription in order to purchase
these products in Australia or any member nations of the European Union (excluding the United Kingdom & Switzerland). Source: http://www.thehormoneshop.com/melatonin.htm
----
As a natural substance with a virtual absence of problematic side effects, with health benefits to users without illnesses, melatonin has been classified as a dietary supplement and made freely available in the USA, but in the EU, over-the-counter sale without prescription is not yet officially permitted. Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/melatonin

So, something isn't right here! I've posted this, because I had similar problem with melatonin purchase here in Croatia (thought Croatia in not member of EU), but I've found good herbal source substitute.
I have no intention on debating whether or not you can buy melatonin in syntetic or animal based form, over counter or whatever. What I want is to help finding reliable source in cases when is hard to find little bottle with melatonin label on it. You can also find Melatonin in banana, rice, red wine and many Chinese plants.

Offline Peto

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Melatonin
« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2007, 05:54:39 AM »
Quote from: MKRNHR
what's the maximum dosage of melatonin to take? I'm overweighted and I guess I could take more then 3g to sense an effect, is it? I got it from biovea and it just made me having some... dreams of very close relationships with a woman I don't know. But in the morning I was very awake and in a good mood and feeling clear minded. should I take more?
I guess you meant 3mg in your post. I take a 2.5mg tablet every night. I read somewhere that volunteers in an experiment took very high dosage without any ill effects. So you can gradually increase your dosage up to a level you feel an effect without fear.

Offline domi

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Melatonin
« Reply #101 on: June 07, 2007, 06:17:25 AM »
Quote from: Regulattor
As I can tell melatonin is forbidden for sale in EU, at least in syntetic form.
A family member of mine just bought some in Sluis (Netherlands).
Apparently it is not available in Belgium.
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Offline Z

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Melatonin
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2007, 09:02:22 AM »
Quote from: Bobo08
I guess you meant 3mg in your post. I take a 2.5mg tablet every night. I read somewhere that volunteers in an experiment took very high dosage without any ill effects. So you can gradually increase your dosage up to a level you feel an effect without fear.
I think this is very relative to the individual and I wouldnt say there are no ill effects  when overdosing. As described few pages before I took 1 half of 3mg tablet.
I couldnt sleep all night, I was rather drifting in very shallow slumber and waking up every 5 minutes, all of this was accompanied by nightmares and wierdest of dreams. All next day I felt tired and drained. For me this was ill effect enough.

I looked it up and it was clear that I was experiencing all the symptoms of overdosing.  I think generally healthy people under the age of 40-45 do not have much need for melatonin.
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Offline Z

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Melatonin
« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2007, 09:40:28 AM »
Quote from: Regulattor
I have no intention on debating whether or not you can buy melatonin in syntetic or animal based form, over counter or whatever. What I want is to help finding reliable source in cases when is hard to find little bottle with melatonin label on it. You can also find Melatonin in banana, rice, red wine and many Chinese plants.
We are freely exchanging all kinds of information on this forum, also we are trying to make sure this information is correct and updated.
Hope you dont have a problem with this ;)

As far as I know there is no difference between natural or syntetic melatonin. Its a chemical compound which has the same structure in both cases. When we talk about natural melatonin the only natural melatonin that has significance as the food suplement is melatonin extracted from animals - mainly sheep. Quantities of melatonin in  other natural sources such as plants, fruits and vegetables  are insignificant at least from therapeutic point of view.
Syntehic melatonin has become popular choice since many people have different  issues with use of animal products, be it ethical or healt. Also there is spongioform encephalopathy which affects  european cattle, and since natural melatonin comes from pinneal gland- i.e. from the brain this definitely isnt very good selling point for natural melatonin.


In any case I found this article which I thought was very informative:

Quote
Melatonin, as you've probably heard by now, is a substance that is mostly manufactured in an organ called the pineal (which means "pine cone") gland. Although revered for centuries in the East as a center of consciousness, this odd little blob of an organ nestled inside the brain was once thought to be useless as far as Western medicine was concerned. However, over the past couple of decades, hundreds of experiments have demonstrated that the pineal gland is acutely sensitive to daylight and our environmental temperature in a way that dramatically affects our immune system, reproductive organs, psychological health, and the aging process itself.

Several substances are produced and secreted by the pineal gland. Among them, a protein called epithalamin has a long list of beneficial effects on the body ranging from increasing one's learning capacity to slowing down the aging rate. Serotonin is widely recognized to have a strong influence on sleep, pain, and simply "feeling good." Another pineal product, arginine vasotocin, is a potent protein capable of rapidly putting you into deep sleep. There are several other pineal gland products involved in maintaining health, but the most recently celebrated pineal hormone is, of course, melatoninthe "fix and rejuvenate" night-time hormone.

Foods High in Melatonin
(picograms/gram)

Oats 1,796

Sweet corn 1,366

Rice 1,006

Ginger 583

Tomatoes 500

Banana 460

Barley 378

In recent years, science has determined that the pineal gland functions primarily as the "drummer" for the body's symphony of chemical events. This symphony is composed of two parts. The night-time chemical melody is restorative and repair-oriented; the daylight melody supports all the mental and physical work that must be accomplished.

Interest in melatonin supplementation, however, is due to the fact that melatonin blood levels take a rather dramatic drop as aging progresses. The plunge takes us from a night-time high of 120 pg/ml in the blood of children, to around 60 pg/ml in the twenties and thirties, and then to 20 pg/ml in the forties. By the sixties and seventies, the protective effects of melatonin dwindle to practically nothing.

Youth in a Bottle

Recently, when word spread of the downward spiral of one's natural melatonin, the temptation to buy youth for $5.95 a bottle became too irresistible for manyeven if caution was screaming all the way to the health-food store. Common sense might tell you that switching a bowling ball for a tennis ball is not the best way to make the complex chemical juggling act of the pineal gland any easier. In assessing the risk, both England and Canada have banned the sale of melatonin in health stores. It is considered a drug and must be obtained via a physician for a specific medical condition. In this country, the FDA has not yet attempted to remove melatonin from health food stores, but such a step may be prove to be necessary.

Fortunately, research has provided us with several insights into natural alternatives to keep melatonin at optimal levels for our respective ages. Sleeping with the chickens would be a good start. Stressing our body with reading or watching TV
until late at night is common to most Americans. We don't need an expensive scientific study to tell us that such habits are not particularly healthful, but several recent studies have been done along these lines of inquiry and demonstrate that even modest exposure to light at night can significantly squelch melatonin production. Couple this with stress (which also reduces melatonin) and it becomes painfully clear that we are accelerating aging and debilitating our immune and nervous systems. As the sun sets, the pineal gland shifts gears and slowly "spits and sputters" out melatonin in greater and greater quantities until it hits a peak production around two or three in the morning. Thereafter it falls fairly rapidly until dawn when that other hormone, serotonin, steps in. The balance of these two hormones appears to play a key role in preserving optimum health and a cheerful mood.

Melatonin Depletion

What we eat can either promote plasma melatonin and protect the pineal gland's health or deplete and destroy melatonin production. A recent report in the journal Sleep Research (1995) found that caffeine as found in coffee, black tea, several types of soda drinks and chocolate cut melatonin production to half the usual amount for up to 6 hours. This resulted in insomnia or disturbed sleep for most of the study subjects. A couple of glasses of wine at 7:00 p.m. may put you "out" at night but the cost will be an important reduction in melatonin and its ability to give the quality of sleep that restores and rejuvenates the body. Regular daytime use of either of these drinks will likely jeopardize melatonin's natural anti-oxidant and immune-system maintenance effects which are vital to cell protection during the
waking hours.

On the other hand, several different foods are now known to possess natural melatonin (see table). In fact, some plants possess remarkably high amounts of melatonin but they are not particularly great to serve for lunch, such as banana peels or a type of livestock grazing grass called tall fescue. Dr. Russell J. Reiter, a renowned authority on melatonin, found in experiments with rats that when they were fed a meal rich in natural melatonin, they had significantly higher levels of the hormone for hours afterward.

In an odd twist of human physiology, research has also demonstrated that moderate food restriction can increase the number of melatonin receptors in the body thus preserving the pineal gland from over-exertion. In other words, if we consider melatonin as the body's chemical voice, then the pineal gland will no longer have to strain its vocal chords because fasting causes the body's cells to turn up their "hearing aids" (e.g., cell receptors).

In a study done in rats deliberately given a tumor-promoting toxin (dimethylbenzathracene), those rats that were given melatonin and were underfed had a highly protective effect against tumor production when compared with either underfeeding (which has a pretty powerful wallop against tumors itself) or melatonin alone. Interestingly, short-term fasting in menopausal women was shown to significantly elevate daytime plasma melatonin levels to values normally found only at nighttime. Additional research found that the gastrointestinal tract was capable of manufacturing melatonin too, thus preserving the pineal gland's production machinery for the nighttime. To the individual interested in natural health, all this information suggests that the quality of fruits and vegetables is likely to be even more powerful against disease when consumed in moderate quantities.

References

Agnieszka et al. "Food Restriction Enhances Melatonin Effect on the
Pituitary-Gonadal Axis in Female Rats." Journal of Pineal Research 1992:13:1Ö5.

Reiter R.J., Robinson J., Your Body's Natural Wonder Drug: Melatonin. Bantam Books,1995.
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Offline Heimdallr

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Melatonin
« Reply #104 on: June 07, 2007, 07:08:49 PM »
Quote from: Deckard
I looked it up and it was clear that I was experiencing all the symptoms of overdosing.  I think generally healthy people under the age of 40-45 do not have much need for melatonin.
I can't really agree with that.  I'm under 30 and quite healthy yet I take 3mg every night before bed and I have found that I fall asleep much faster and my sleep is much less interrupted during the night.  It's helped me have more energy during the day since I get a good night's sleep, whereas before I started taking melatonin I woke up a lot during the night and it would affect me during the day.

Most pills come in 3mg form, you should just cut them in half and try that dosage.
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