Objective Knowledge as a Political Tool

luke wilson said:
Hi Obyvatel,

I have read the work on 4th way. ISOTM in full and all volumes of Gnosis. I have read all books by Castenado. I have been through the glossary many times.

Ok psychology books. I haven't read any in full. I'll be honest why. I can't find them in my bookstore. Ok, that was a lie, I don't go to bookstores, I wouldn't know where to look. I don't buy books online as I don't trust the security on my computer. It is about 8 years old. I never shop online.

This is why you waste our time here with your wiseacreing - because you want to do calculus when you can't even do basic addition and subtraction. You need to deal with your internal stuff before you can even hope to have your instrument clean enough to speculate about abstract things such as "objective knowledge" or "strategic enclosure" etc. As Wolfgang Pauli would say, your ramblings are "not even wrong".

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
 
luke wilson said:
Ok psychology books. I haven't read any in full. I'll be honest why. I can't find them in my bookstore. Ok, that was a lie, I don't go to bookstores, I wouldn't know where to look. I don't buy books online as I don't trust the security on my computer. It is about 8 years old. I never shop online.

I'm not sure if the 'age' of your computer is equal to how secure your computer is or not. My laptop is kinda old too, what's most important is what (anti-virus etc) programs you have installed in your computer to make sure that the security on your computer is good. And to do regular scans. Webshops, like amazon, have a security system of their own, so that's an additional thing to keep in mind.

luke wilson said:
I know how important it is to pay your 'dues'. But I just don't trust my computer and online shopping. I am the person who will go to the cash machine get money out, to go to the shop to buy something and pay for it in cash. I am slowly moving away from that now that I work

Then maybe it would be best to look into the psychology threads, read people's threads etc. Many times excerpts from the Psychology books are posted that can be helpful already.
 
LW said:
Anyways, coming back in to the main point.

Knowing the above, I will make an effort and TRY to remember myself to AVOID defaulting to dancing in the clouds when communicating with others. I will think about the right words to use, if I can't find them,

This is a good start. But I would like to ask - how will you know if you have found the right words? You can only learn this by carefully observing and thinking about feedback you receive.

Be careful not to allow the negative introject to set impossible standards.

LW said:
I will abandon the idea and move onto the next thing, try and find the right words to use and so on.

This to me is the reaction of a little child who throws his toys out of the pram.

LW said:
To me, this will be bad, because it'll mean I abandon many ideas which I wish to test by presenting them to others

This is self-importance. You are very attached to YOUR ideas. How about studying the ideas that we work with here? Ideas that grow and are tested by the network?

LW said:
but ultimately, it is about fine tuning ones system to adapt in whatever environment one might find themselves in. I say TRY as we know that remembering is a battle, maybe the biggest one.

I think you're wisacreing again - intellectualizing about something without understanding the marrow of it.

LW said:
I think that is a decent workable plan.

It's a beginning.

LW said:
The whole personality type thing could be nonsense but to me it makes sense as it explains my dominant traits, I might not have seen them the way I can see a building, but i have felt them. The same way the existence and interference of hyperdimensional beings might make sense despite me never seeing one in any real concrete way. If someone was to say, right, 2 choices, you're on top of this building, you are going to jump, that is something that is going to happen. You'll either live or die. Right now, say, do you think hyperdimensional beings exist and have been interfering with us? Depending on your answer and what is actually objectively real, you will either live or die. I personally would say they do and jump.

So, you know where I stand.

Umm, actually I don't. I don't understand what you're getting at when you talk about hyperdimensional beings. Couldn't you say what you mean more plainly? You start off with a statement of fact - a certain personality model explains your dominant traits as you perceive them - but then you wander off into la-la land. I mean, jumping off a building as opposed to not jumping, is somehow related to perception of personality traits? :nuts:

LW said:
Ok psychology books. I haven't read any in full. I'll be honest why. I can't find them in my bookstore. Ok, that was a lie, I don't go to bookstores, I wouldn't know where to look. I don't buy books online as I don't trust the security on my computer. It is about 8 years old. I never shop online.

You don't need a new computer. I've shopped online for years and up until a couple of years ago I did it with a computer that was built in December 2000. You do need decent internet security software which you should keep up to date. Some internet security software is available online for free. For safety, never store any passwords on your computer, and never open unsolicited emails, especially those with attachments. When you're shopping online, make sure the vendor's website address in the browser's address bar shows the little closed padlock symbol, and starts with 'https'.
 
luke wilson said:
I was personally astonished to find out that this concept of what is true and what isn't has been used over millennia to batter people into submission.

Really? What did you think was the rationale behind the imperialists' empire building for the last few thousand years? I'm surprised this was such a surprise to you. You mean you've never known that the British, for example, saw themselves as superior to their subjects around the world?
 
Thanks for the feedback. The information is overwhelming.

To keep it simple, I will start accumulating some of the psychology books. I'll let you know when the first one comes through the letter box.
 
I need some feedback on this book that I am reading.

Primal Healing by Dr Arthur Janov

Essentially, it is about healing deep lying wounds.

Introduction

As a clinical psychologist with more than 50 years in the field, I’ve come to appreciate that if we are to effectively treat mental health problems, we must combine the best of both worlds and integrate the discipline of neuroscience with that of psychology. A deepening exchange is needed, a cross-pollination of knowledge and practice between these two fields.

In this book I shall try to fuse neurology, psychology, and biology into one organic whole so that we humans will no longer be dissected into separate parts for convenience of study. This will allow us to explain human beings in a truly holistic way, seeing how psychology interacts with neurology to determine our behavior and our symptoms. Thus, when we make a psychologic diagnosis it will also
encompass other sciences, at the same time making a diagnosis of how our physical system works along with the emotional one.

Some excepts from some of the chapters

IT’S ALL IN YOUR HEAD

For true and lasting change to occur, deep levels of the brain must change physiologically, enabling key structures within the brain to recalibrate to optimal, healthy levels.

Furthermore, such change will only come about when those parts of the brain that hold deeply imprinted memories can connect neurochemically with the parts of the brain that underlie the more rational, thinking aspects of our minds, such as the frontal neocortex. No amount of talk-based therapy will ever bring about such a connection because there is little activation of the subcortical structures that mediate the deeply imprinted memories, yet this connection is vital if more substantial progress in psychotherapy is to occur. In these pages, I will show how our mental health, as well as much of our physical health, is determined by the physiological function of that gray matter we call the brain.

Conventional psychotherapy has been imbued with the belief that good mental health is a product of your mind—a result of your thinking, logical, rational, prefrontal cortex; in brief, that you can think your way to health. The logical corollary is that you get sick in your mind; in effect, you think your way to sickness. Conventional psychotherapy believes that if you change your state of mind, you change your state of health. Yet neurosis, a physical and mental deviation of a normal system, is not laid down in the brain as an idea but
as an experience, one that leaves a physiological trail. Because of this, any psychotherapy that relies on words and ideas cannot change neurosis.

Critical Periods: Is It Ever Too Late to Be Loved?

Critical periods are the times when needs for love are at their maximum and must be fulfilled. The pain impressed into the system when needs are unmet during a critical period remains for a lifetime. There are no substitutes that repair the damage—not love or caring later in life, not success, not “awareness” gained through therapy, not drugs or alcohol, nor belief in God.

The only way to undo the damage is to access the neural connections that were laid down at the time of the original pain and trauma so that they can be modified. Because these neural connections include primitive regions of the brain, including those underlying basic emotions and survival functions, a cerebral talk about what happened in the past will have little effect. Instead, we must allow
ourselves to fully experience, or rather reexperience, those early painful, traumatic experiences as an adult who can tolerate the feelings.

As a general rule, the earlier in life a need goes unmet, the more devastating the later effects of deprivation will be. The closer to the “critical period” a trauma occurs, the more harmful it is. One way we can define critical period is the irreversible quality of its effects. The more time that has elapsed after a critical period has passed, the greater the force required to create an imprint. It takes a tremendous
trauma after the critical period to have a profound and lifelong effect. Why do needs go unmet? For a passel of reasons, but it is often true that parents are so immersed in their own unmet needs (with the resulting narcissism) and pain that they simply cannot attend to their child.

Pain and Repression

This is why many people become addicted to therapy. We go back for it over and over again, often not knowing why, yet having someone to listen to us exclusively is very comforting.

...

Later we will see how the words of a therapist, no matter whether right or wrong, can be soothing to our agonies. We can be fooled into thinking that the “insights” we have in therapy are what make us feel better, but in reality it is the caring, reassuring tone of the therapist, all along. It dampens pain, the pain of a mother who was unaffectionate and inattentive; the pain of a father who never cared, was never soft, and whose tone was unrelentingly harsh. The therapist’s presence says, “I’m here now. It’s going to be all right.” Just being in his office can make us feel better.

Feeling better is fine. But we must keep in mind that the caring we get now cannot make up for the lack of it when it was critical. The critical period has passed. If it hadn’t, then the doctor’s caring would heal us. Because it is after the critical period, it is only palliative. It may help stabilize a shaky defense system, but it never eradicates need. I will repeat ad nauseam: we cannot love neurosis away. Even if we could resurrect Momma and have her kiss and hug her grown-up child, no amount of love in the present can reverse the damage. That is why a kindly therapist, who is concerned and interested, cannot reestablish equilibrium in his patient. No amount of his caring and insights will induce any profound change. No psychotherapy can alter those needs, nor can the drug-taking or other act-outs they drive, once they are sealed in.

More broadly, we must keep in mind the futility of using ideas to treat the effects of deeply ingrained traumas. As ideas to treat the effects of deeply ingrained traumas. As we shall see, it is not possible to use ideas and thinking processes, which literally came along millions of years later in the evolution of brain development, to affect what is lower in the brain and evolved millions of years earlier.

Imprints and Neurophysiology: How Memory Is Inscribed

The concept of the imprint is being confirmed by new research, which demonstrates that extreme, early emotional trauma is inscribed in and locked into our system as a physiological event, with continuing physiological effects. It is for this reason that preverbal trauma that occurs before the frontal, thinking area is mature is critical to our development, and continues to affect our personality, behavior, and health for a lifetime.

There are several primary systems at work in the brain. These systems run from bottom to top (which we’ll discuss later) and also from right to left. The brain has two sides, left and right. Each side, or brain hemisphere, has different functions. Broadly, we might say the right side is responsible for feeling, while the left side thinks, plans, and schemes. The left hemisphere manages the external world,
while the right brain manages our inner lives. One is the scientist and the other is often involved in mysticism. The right brain forms much of our personalities, governs many of our biochemical processes, and directs our later lives beyond what most of us realize. This means that feelings govern our choices, interests, professions, partners, and loves. The left brain, by and large, deals with the quantity of
things; the right, with quality.

When we speak of “quality of life,” we are dealing with feeling. So we have one brain that is fragmented and the other that sees the whole. To become whole we must manage to recruit the fragments of our lives into a complete picture; for that we need both brain hemispheres working in harmony. That is one definition of consciousness and its differentiation from awareness.

Mechanisms That Aid the Disconnection

One primary way that love, or a lack of it, sculpts the brain is in determining how well we are connected to our feelings. Our ability to connect to our feelings depends on a key brain structure that serves as a bridge between comprehension of feeling, which is a function of the left brain, and feeling itself, governed by the right brain. This bridge is called the corpus callosum. It is the most
important of several highways connecting the left and right brains; 80 percent of feeling information traverses this structure. Early experience can effectively block this information “highway” from one brain hemisphere to the other. This means that the left side doesn’t know what is in the right, literally.

The Problem With Left-Brain-Centered Psychotherapy

Unfortunately, we tend to glorify left-brain activities to the neglect of the right. We expect the left brain to fight our battles, particularly, the internal enemies. We do this without taking into account that left-brain development came into being much later in evolutionary history than the right brain, and in each of our individual lives, in part as a means of disengaging us from the other side. One kind of brain tissue cannot do the work of another. The left brain developed different abilities to avoid a redundancy between left and right. The left brain’s activity helps soothe and calm us. It allowed and continues to allow us to defend against feelings that were too much to bear. We use the left hemisphere to rationalize a hurt or insult so it won’t create so much pain. Or, at the mercy of needs of which we may be only dimly aware, the left brain can superimpose all kinds of needs onto a romantic object and imagine her to
be wonderful, only to be disappointed two years down the line because the left brain didn’t perceive reality. It didn’t listen to the right because communication was either reduced or nonexistent. When perception is detached from need and feeling, we misperceive. For instance, if we need a strong protector, we will overlook the other person’s weaknesses and ignore his flaws. We “see” protection
where it may not exist, or we get protection accompanied by total domination.

The left frontal area is also where we conjure up or embrace beliefs. Insights given by a therapist are ultimately beliefs to soothe and ease pain. Indeed, the words of a therapist, no matter whether right or wrong, can be soothing to our agonies. It is not only the content of what the therapist says, but just his words offered in soothing tones. Oddly enough, that tone affects the right brain, not the left. The
content of the insight remains in the left. We can be fooled into thinking that the content of an insight is what makes us feel better, but in reality it is the reassuring tone, all along. It dampens right-side pain—the pain of a father who never cared, was never soft, and whose tone was unrelentingly harsh. The therapist’s presence says, “I’m here now. It’s going to be all right.” Just being in his office can make us feel better. In other words, the left side allows us to be partially oblivious to ourselves. This is particularly egregious when it comes to psychotherapy, which traditionally has been left-brain focused for more than 100 years.

There is still this focus on discussion, still a concentration on the relationship between patient and doctor, rather than on the relationship between the patient and herself. We go to cognitive therapy to enlist the armies of the word against the ranks of feelings. With this understanding, we can see how futile it is to use ideas in treating the effects of deeply ingrained traumas. It is not just ideas that are
involved in therapy. The therapist is not only the purveyor of ideas, she is also the filler of needs (symbolically) and in that way we can only get well symbolically; therapy is yet another form of act-out. What is real is the patient’s unresolved childhood need and the dislocation it caused long ago. No current therapeutic caring can undo childhood deprivation.

Remember, insights are a set of belief systems. What a therapist tells the patient is often part of his own apperceptive mass, of his own beliefs that the patient must adopt. Insights are not neutral; they are multi-determined. There is a theoretical frame of reference behind them, a system of beliefs, which is inculcated into the patient. Often, the cognitive therapist is using words to activate the patient’s left prefrontal area, thereby strengthening the defense. The Freudians don’t call it cognitive, but they rely heavily on words to accomplish their goals. They want to reorient the patient to more rational ways of thinking. So here we have a paradox: the therapist’s words strengthen the left-brain defense while the tone calms the right brain; together they seem to help. It is not the content of the
insights a therapist gives, but the fact of the insights; proffering ideas as a balm to soothe those inner wounds that do not bleed.

What is the meaning or subtext of the therapist’s insights? “I care. I listen. I want to help. I talk to you with empathy. You are worth talking to.” All that is the “healing” subtext, which is symbolic. Whatever reinforces our defenses tends to make us feel better. It puts an ideational salve over the hurt so we won’t feel it, when it is the opposite that must take place. No psychotherapy can alter our unresolved childhood needs and the act-outs they drive once they are sealed in. We can beat or exhort smoking and drinking away, but their motivating forces remain. Or we can go to psychotherapy where the therapist encourages us to understand and forgive our parents for their weaknesses even while our systems are in agony from deprivation. It is the left brain that forgives while the right
suffers, and forgiveness will never change that suffering. Forgiveness is a religious notion, not a scientific one. Forgiveness is best left to the church.

We tend to think that ideas change our behavior when in fact it is our feelings. It doesn’t matter whether our feelings
are conscious or not; they still affect all of our biological mechanisms, including hormones, our circulatory system, muscles, and so on. Left-brain insights decades later in therapy are not going to change those physiologic imprints, our memories, our critical right-brain history, because they are not directly connected to that history. Indeed, they are disconnected from that history.4 The real challenge in
therapy lies in how to address another human being’s right brain without words. The right side always tells the truth because the imprint leaves it no choice; yet that truth often forces the left to lie, mostly to ourselves. In the October 2005 issue of the British Journal of Psychiatry, there is a study indicating that the ability or facility for compulsive lying lies, not surprisingly, in the prefrontal cortex, away
from the feeling level.

Once we understand that only the patient can transform himself, then we can move beyond trying to make him into what he is not. Reality lies inside of him, not in the head of the therapist. We need to help him find that reality.

So, thoughts?

I am not that well versed in psychology so I don't know if what I am reading has any merit. It does explain somethings though, mainly that words and insights rarely change act-outs that are deeply ingrained e.g. someone with an addiction will get all the insights and see the truth as to why they should stop, but that doesn't stop the drive, rarely leads to transformation, maybe because as the author says, the insight only touches the left side, whilst the problem lies deep in the right side, where the left has no say whatsoever, where words are non-existent - if one is indeed dealing with an imprint or a deep pre-verbal trauma laid neatly beyond the reach of the left side. I am still trying to work out what he is saying about overcoming such deep seated trauma, I think it is something along the lines of truly feeling that pain that is locked away, hidden from the conscious - what does that mean in practice though? He isn't being very clear on that front.
 
what does that mean in practice though

How can you practice feeling trauma that is locked away hidden from conscious?

I have much more work to do and I am not saying that I am close to done. However what has helped me improve myself and understand myself my past traumas and all that is starting with simple practical psychological information like the books on narcissism, co dependency, manipulation and DID. These psychological topics I believe are easier to analyze, look back over your life who has influenced you in a narcissitic, manipulative way? How do you relate to people, have you adopted others programs as your own? Can you remember yourself in your interactions, are you speaking to someone trying to tell them what YOU want them to do or what YOU think they should do? Can you recognize your co dependent emotions limit you and scare you into actions that hinder you from growth? Do you use manipulation because others have used it on you? Who has used it against you in your life? Do you remember times in your life when you have used DID to protect yourself?...These books/psychological topics helped me start to clean my machine because the information is basic and simple to grasp. These examples happen in everyday life, in our interactions, thoughts and behaviors and if you remember yourself you can catch yourself being narcissistic, manipulative or feel the codependent emotions and then work to undo these programs.

Starting to read the psychology books for the first time and trying to find hidden trauma locked away from conscious is like telling someone to do college level work when they are in high school. Sure it can be done but it will be allot harder then if they started out with the basics IMO.

There are lies that we tell ourselves, we are trapped under programs and as we deal with programs one by one we start to open ourselves up with the help of weekly EE and discovering programs I believe we then naturally start to unlock traumas that are hidden away. It also takes a certain type of skill to not only relate the information to your own life but to catch yourself in the moment being a narcasist or manipulative or feeling the codependent emotions arise. That is what takes practice applying and seeing this information in our lives and in ourselves. Its hard to unlock something when you don’t have the key....Yet
 
Hey Menna, still reading the book so I can't answer your question in full.

So far the image I am getting is that one feels this trauma by not running away from it, not acting out, not tranquilizing oneself. If you have deep trauma, chances are you live it regularly. E.g. maybe through alcohol, maybe through manipulation of others, maybe through phobias etc. (Those are the examples he gives, other examples include giving up quite easily or being manic in everything you do etc) From what he says, I gather you can detect your traumas in those things you do to keep the pain away as the pain might be such that it is numb. However it drives you if you are not totally disconnected from the feeling part of your brain and so you only notice it once you stop acting out in whatever way. E.G. an alcoholic if he stops drinking, will start to feel pain, eventually if he doesn't get another fix, and maybe gets the right sort of help, that pain can drive him into his history, into what set the original defect, that is, if he can handle it, if he can't the brain will drive him to a different destination i.e. he might substitute God for Alcohol.

What we see again and again, particularly in new studies, is how beliefs can diminish the experience of pain. When someone gives up drugs or alcohol and adopts new beliefs, his brain accommodates just as if he were still on drugs.

He says beliefs are the psychic equivalent of repression. He explained repression as an actual physical event with different parts of the brain engaging and disengaging to repress something from conscious awareness.

He states that e.g. chemical imbalance defects such as those that lead to drug addiction, originally have there roots in emotions which leave physical tracks behind e.g. a child who is unloved at the critical period will have his brain physically impaired and he may have to compensate for this in future life by acting out in some way. In order to heal completely, the original impairment must be healed, so he must dive into his past, not merely change his ideas, he must go back in time and feel the original pain. Talking about it won't change the impairment. He says the reason for this is because, words and that sort impairment live at different parts of the brain. Also just stopping the drugs won't do it, if he isn't ready to deal with the original pain, he will find a substitute for the drugs which will accomplish the same thing the drugs accomplished.

Anyways, I don't think it is a 'high-level' quantum type book as you are alluding. I think he explains how trauma works quite succinctly and in an easy to understand way. I didn't know the extent of the link between our emotions and our physical being, I had no real understanding of how the brain is connected, that the left has no say on the right, that the right contains our history etc. I will finish this book as I have already started it before shifting to trapped in the mirror or drama of the gifted child.

Here is an another interesting except of how the mind can act to both deceive and protect at the same time.

The patient I discussed previously who was about to enter the terrible pain of incest saw the hand of God reaching down to protect him (and take him out of the feeling). He was saved from himself. His experience and feelings. He was saved by the idea of God, unless we really believe that someone up there was listening and really did reach down. The idea intruded itself into his awareness in order to stop the agony. He became aware to avoid full consciousness. The idea took the place of the pain. He had to go no further into his archives of suffering. He came out of the feeling with a jolt. He came out of his past and into his present; that present defended him against his history. There was a sudden, abrupt shift from his right brain to his left, from internal focus to the external. And the pain did it all by itself; no willpower was involved. Instead of saying, “There is an automatic governor in my system that won’t let me feel too much pain,” he believed that there was divine intervention that stopped him from suffering. God became interchangeable with serotonin.
 
Basically what I'm trying to say is that you are reading a book about healing but do you know where your injuries are? What caused them? What is the right way to treat them? I believe this book is useful once one has located their trauma how it started and how it manifests in their life so then you can begin to re program yourself

The quotes from the book on belief you can witness in real life all the time. Former addicts finding God. Born again Christians they emerse themselves in religion again trying to find something outside themselves to feel secure just like the drugs except being addicted to religion doesn't degrade you physically and isn't as taboo and is more excepted then being a drug addict. People can believe in whatever they want but without experience it's a short sited belief by adopting a new found belief people replace the drug addiction with the security of whatever belief they have continuing to run away from their trauma not being able to face themselves it makes them feel better like the drugs use to its trading one cruch for another looking for something external that can bring security... Just my take on it not saying its right or wrong it's just the typical motion of things
 
Hi Menna,

If your questions aren't rhetorical

do you know where your injuries are?

I am reluctant to move out of my parents house. I am reluctant to become fully responsible. Could be indicative of something bigger.

I have tendencies to be passive rather than active.

I can not form intimate relationships with the opposite gender. Something is hiding behind this, though I don't know what.

I have certain addictions. My way in.

I listen to music for hours on end when I feel psychological pressure. The music offers a channel for the pressure to flow into. If I don't I become foggy and lethargic. Like addictions, I can easily play with this.

Sometimes in high pressure situations I become short of breath, my mind becomes clouded, my brain goes fuzzy.

I have a Machiavellian mindset.

To name a few.

What caused them?

I don't know. Probably something or a series of somethings before my neocortex came online.

What is the right way to treat them?

Somethings are immediate, other might take time.

Essentially I think it means I have to feel the pain.

But first, I have to read the books.
 
Exactly however I believe it's not just about reading the books as there is an efficient way to "read the books" and IMO starting with specifics like Narcisism then codependency and so on could be more helpful then starting with a book about how to heal those programs when one doesn't know exactly what they are or how they manifest in your external and internal world. Remember knowledge and being that G talks about? I believe experience is a great way to keep knowledge and being on an even playing field or at least as close to even as possible. It helped me when I read the specific books about specific problems and then as I went about my life I looked for the programs by self remembering and then I could experience them feel them and watch them this then lead to repressed memories of how others in my life have treated me traumatised me due to these programs because I consciously experienced the program with the knowledge from the books and the help of G's work strategies. You are asking the forum questions that if answered would it really provide you with the answers you need? That will help keep your being? Only so much water (knowledge) can go into a cup then it will overflow.
 
You keep mentioning codependency, what book deals with that?

And I get what you are saying menna. About building ground up. Having a strong foundation. I totally get it. However, it is a personal challenge for me to finish this book. I rarely finish books. I have been struggling through it for weeks now. I don't want to give up! 1 or 2 more weeks and I'll be done. Then I will look into the 2 books I mentioned earlier (drama of the gifted child and trapped in the mirror) plus one dealing with codependency once you let me know of one.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Codependency-Relationships-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=282909

Enjoy the book I am sure it will be helpful and more helpful as you progress.

Sharing my experience to make this already rough road a little smoother.
 
Menna said:
http://www.amazon.com/Codependency-Relationships-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=282909

Enjoy the book I am sure it will be helpful and more helpful as you progress.

Sharing my experience to make this already rough road a little smoother.

Thanks!
 
luke wilson said:
Menna said:
http://www.amazon.com/Codependency-Relationships-Books/b?ie=UTF8&node=282909

Enjoy the book I am sure it will be helpful and more helpful as you progress.

Sharing my experience to make this already rough road a little smoother.

Thanks!

Luke, why aren't you reading the books from the recommended reading list? They're recommended for a reason, they've been read by everyone at the chateau and a lot of the people on this forum and have helped tremendously. Here's the list:

Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror4.1 - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
Character Disturbance: The Phenomenon of Our Age4.2 - George K. Simon

Go slow so that you can absorb what you read and apply it to yourself. Journal about it. Think about it and think about it some more.
 
Back
Top Bottom