The Dangers of the White Knight Syndrome

Laura

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The Dangers of Codependent Mentoring

by Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries | 9:00 AM December 3, 2013



Even the most talented, charismatic, and self-sufficient people need the help and cooperation of other people if they are to realize their true potential. For this reason, mentoring others in the organization to achieve ever-higher levels of performance is something we should all subscribe to. It is to our mutual benefit to help each other and this urge to do so is both natural and laudable.

But some of us are motivated less by a desire to benefit others and contribute to the common good, and more by a deeper emotional need within ourselves. If you fall into this category, you may be a “rescuer,” a person whose need to help is a self-serving addiction and who is unable to differentiate between their own needs and those of the people they are purporting to help.

The problem with rescuers is that they tend to build unnecessary, unhealthy, and sometimes inappropriate dependency relationships with the people they want to help. At best you make for a very ineffective helper; at worst, you harm others by attempting to co-opt the people you should be helping, in an attempt to fulfill your own compulsions.

I remember working with a leadership coach who would regularly call the office of one of her clients to tell them that he was sick and would be unable. In fact, her client was a chronic alcoholic who was prone to frequent bouts of heavy drinking that rendered him incapable for days at a stretch. Her “help” was entirely counter-productive. By protecting her client’s self-destructive lifestyle she only perpetuated his alcoholism.

When I asked the coach why she did this she explained that her client had repeatedly told her that he couldn’t manage without her, and that he always felt much better after she took control for him. The coach also said that this man was one of her best clients—and it’s not difficult to understand why: his dependency on her made her feel empowered and created for her the illusion that she was actually helping him. The reality, of course, is that the coach was simply satisfying her need to be needed while the client sank deeper into his cycle of binge drinking.

In this kind of co-dependent relationship, both parties inevitably suffer. The person being helped receives no real beneficial help, while the rescuer becomes overburdened with the dependency of the other. Instead of generating the positive results they both aspire to, the co-dependent relationship between the two becomes a debilitating energy-drain for all concerned.

Sometimes, when ‘‘helping’’ becomes ‘‘rescuing,’’ the person being helped will react to the rescuer’s ministrations by backing away and making a pro-active attempt to resolve the issues they were struggling with on their own. Although this is potentially a good outcome for the person being rescued, the rescuer will try to reassert her control in order to remain as instrumental in achieving success.

As the relationship between the two deteriorates, the subject of the rescue attempt becomes dispirited and confused at the rescuer’s persistent interference while the rescuer becomes increasingly frustrated with the standoffish behavior of the other. Eventually, the rescuer simply abandons the rescue attempt in search of another “victim.” Although this is ultimately good news for the victim, the journey may be painful and his attempts to recover can be severely compromised.

But the rescuer is a victim too. People become rescuers because they have a need to be liked. Saying ‘‘no’’ to someone who has asked a favor is to let that person down and to court dislike. So when a rescuer sees a person in need, he or she will feel obliged to fulfill that person’s request however inconvenient, inappropriate or burdensome the task.

The result, of course, is that rescuers get overloaded with other people’s emotional baggage, which takes up time and drains energy. They become cynical, tired, and apathetic. They lose their idealism and sense of purpose. Worse, they may even unconsciously contaminate the people they try to rescue with their own sense of failure and burnout.

How do you break this co-dependency? Essentially, what’s needed on both sides is a dose of healthy selfishness. The rescuer needs to stop thinking about the needs of others and focus more on their own dreams and aspirations. So if you find yourself being emotionally and physically drained by a professional colleague you feel responsible for perhaps you should take a serious look at why you feel compelled to help that person.

By the same token, if you are a mentee or coachee and you find yourself turning more and more to a mentor or coach whose help seems to be increasingly essential then you might want to ask yourself if the mentor or coach isn’t part of your problem. You should need less mentoring over time, not more.

Tackling the rescuer syndrome does not mean having to give up helping or mentoring other people. The urge to help others is a force for good, so long as it does not involve destructive co-dependency. Constructive mentors and coaches solve their own problems first and recognize that their role is to encourage others to make difficult decisions for themselves.
 
Tackling the rescuer syndrome does not mean having to give up helping or mentoring other people. The urge to help others is a force for good, so long as it does not involve destructive co-dependency. Constructive mentors and coaches solve their own problems first and recognize that their role is to encourage others to make difficult decisions for themselves.

Thanks Laura for this article it is very interesting too much to learn in the way!!!
 
I searched to see if 'white night syndrome' is a recognised term in psychology (it is!) and found this related article:

Understanding and Overcoming the White Knight Syndrome, by Eduard Ezeanu

The white knight.

In fairytales, he is the brave, noble, chivalrous man who comes to the rescue of the fair, helpless damsel in distress, asking nothing in return for his good deeds. In the real world, well, things are a bit more complicated.

Many men have adopted the behavior of the white knight from legends in the way they relate to women. Problem is this behavior often comes from a very dark place, and proves itself fatal for the man possessing it.

Psychologists have actually coined for this type of behavior the term White Knight Syndrome. When psychologists give something an official name, you know it’s serious. Some of them have investigated it thoroughly and they don’t see it with good eyes at all. Myself, as a confidence coach, I’ve worked with many men exhibiting such behavior, and I don’t hold a good opinion of it either.

But before I explain why, let’s get our terms clear.

What Exactly Is the White Knight Syndrome?

The White Knight Syndrome represents a strong inclination some men have to seek women who are or appear to be in need of help (usually the more help the merrier), and on his own initiative provide that help (often no matter the sacrifice), without requesting anything in return.

Such a man is called a white knight. Not to be confused with the Dark Knight, who is a genuine badass.

With this penchant towards saving women comes a whole set of perceptions (many of them unconscious) that model the white knight’s emotions and behavior. Your archetypal white knight:

  • Sees women as powerless and unable to defend or take care of themselves.
  • Sees women’s problems as the result of misfortune or the cruelty of this world, never as their own fault. Women are never responsible for their troubles.
  • Considers it is men’s responsibility to help women solve their problems and sees doing so as a sign of nobility.
  • Thinks a woman will forever be grateful to a man who helps her. She will praise him, love him and give herself to him.
  • Sees men in black and white: they are either good or bad, there is no middle ground, and the decisive factor is how they treat women.

There are many clichés and stereotypes in the way a white knight perceives men and women, and this perception is indeed much more descriptive of folktales than of actual reality.

The White Knight Syndrome essentially stems from two erroneous beliefs that all white knights have in common. Deep down, they believe that 1) it is imperative for them to be liked by all women and 2) they are not good enough to be liked by women as they are.

Thus, the White Knight Syndrome ensues, as sort of a coping mechanism.

The white knight craves female approval, attention and companionship, as well as sex, a romantic relationship and perhaps marriage. But he doesn’t believe that he can obtain these things by just being himself, because he thinks he’s not good enough.

He believes he has to do something special to cope with this predicament. And the something special he discovered is trying to save women from their troubles. It’s no wonder he is drawn to women who need saving like a fly to honey.

At some level he thinks that if he can find women who are weak and in dire need of help, and he will swiftly jump in to provide that help, he will get these women to like him and give him all that he craves from them. Without him openly asking for any of it.

Even though the white knight asks for nothing in return for the help he offers and he may seem to offer it out of pure kindness or morality, make no mistake about it: he has a personal agenda, which he keeps hidden (often so well even he’s not truly aware of it). He wants something from the women he helps. Sometimes it’s only something emotional such as their approval, other times it’s something more material.

Unfortunately, to the white knight’s utter surprise, instead of providing him what he wants from women, his behavior mostly generates steep negative consequences.

The Problems with Being a White Knight

When you’ve coached quite a few white knights and examined their behavior regarding women and its consequences, it’s painstakingly obvious how dreadful being a white knight can be for a guy, and often not just for him.

The biggest problem with being a white knight is that it doesn’t work. It doesn’t grant a guy the appreciation, attention, companionship, sex or relationships with women that he seeks to obtain. And this happens for several reasons.

One reason is that women oftentimes don’t really need or want any help. They are capable of handling whatever challenges they encounter on their own, and keen to do it. This is true today more than ever, considering many women actually have better education, better jobs, more resilience and more social intelligence than many guys out there.

So when the white knight tries to come to the rescue, his help is rejected instead of being eagerly embraced. This frequently leaves the white knight confused, but then he’ll usually figure the lady is just trying to be polite by declining his help, se he tries even harder to offer it, to the point where he becomes annoying.

Another reason is that few women are fooled by the white knight’s apparent zeal to help them without any ulterior motive. They’re smart enough to know he has a hidden agenda. And realizing this, they perceive the white knight as needy and insecure rather than noble and chivalrous, which aren’t exactly attractive male traits. And they don’t succumb to his agenda either.

Some women do embrace the white knight’s aid entirely, appreciate it and also need a lot of it. They’re the type with a knack for constantly getting themselves into trouble and having difficulties getting out of it. They do resemble the damsel in distress from fairytales, minus the innocence.

But even that’s bad news. The trouble is that by coming to such a woman’s rescue all the time, the white knight forms a toxic, codependent relationship with her. It’s a relationship in which she never learns to solve her own problems and she is constantly in need of him to solve them for her, while he cannot stop rescuing her because that’s the only way he knows to keep her appreciation.

In addition, even a woman who wants and appreciates a man’s help won’t necessarily appreciate him for eagerly offering it all the time. Sure, she likes the gesture, she likes being helped, but not necessarily the guy who performs it. Because to her as well, it shows that he’s needy and desperate for her approval. So she probably won’t respect him or sleep with him, but she will accept his help.

And supposing a woman really believes the white knight helps her out of pure chivalry, do you think she’s gonna offer him something in return? Not likely. She feels no obligation towards him, since after all, doing a good deed seems sufficient reward for him.

That’s why so many men end up empty handed when trying to be white knights.

It doesn’t sound like the happy ending in fairytales, does it? Well, there is another big problem.

That problem is that even if the white knight gets a woman’s approval or attention, even if he gets sex or a relationship, he is constantly ‘overpaying’ for what he’s getting. He’s like the guy at an auction who bids $5000 for a beautiful painting, when the last bid offered was $500.

He constantly invests heaps of time, energy and other resources into helping the women in his life, solving their problems and ensuring they have positive experiences. Any social interaction or relationship with a woman is a massive chore for him, and he constantly feels like a hamster on a wheel that’s on overdrive.

Meanwhile, his buddies who put in significantly less effort with women seem to be doing a lot better than him, and somehow women are a considerably less demanding of them. This, he doesn’t really understand. Typically he imagines they’re just lucky bastards, and faith is playing a cruel joke on him.

The White Knight Syndrome Cure

Fortunately, there is a solution for the white knight.

The solution begins with recognizing the dysfunctional patterns in his behavior and admitting to himself that his behavior is not working. He needs to do something about it. He needs to change. For some white knights this is a relatively smooth step, for others it’s more problematical because a lot of pride and denial get in the way.

Then, the white knight needs to enroll in and commit to a personal transformation process aiming to change his behavior with women, as well as some of some of his emotional reactions and personal beliefs. This process entails:

  • Seeing his strengths and improving his self-image.
  • Learning to stop idealizing women and stop seeking their approval.
  • Developing true attractive male traits such as confidence, assertiveness, ambition, social skills, sense of humor, authenticity, integrity, leadership, etc.
  • Learning to set personal boundaries, to ask for what he wants, and to say no.
  • Taking care of his needs and getting personal interests other than women.
  • Finding healthy male models to emulate and hang out with.
  • Building a rich social life for himself, which includes both men and women.

It’s a process. It takes time, it requires perseverance and effective guidance, but it is well worth it. Overcoming the White Knight Syndrome means much more than becoming less accommodating and available towards women.

It means a personal transformation on the inside and outside, which will revolutionize the way you interact with women, your results with women, the way you feel about women, the way you feel about yourself, and eventually your entire life as a man.
 
Laura said:
The Dangers of Codependent Mentoring

by Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries | 9:00 AM December 3, 2013



Even the most talented, charismatic, and self-sufficient people need the help and cooperation of other people if they are to realize their true potential. For this reason, mentoring others in the organization to achieve ever-higher levels of performance is something we should all subscribe to. It is to our mutual benefit to help each other and this urge to do so is both natural and laudable.

But some of us are motivated less by a desire to benefit others and contribute to the common good, and more by a deeper emotional need within ourselves. If you fall into this category, you may be a “rescuer,” a person whose need to help is a self-serving addiction and who is unable to differentiate between their own needs and those of the people they are purporting to help.

The problem with rescuers is that they tend to build unnecessary, unhealthy, and sometimes inappropriate dependency relationships with the people they want to help. At best you make for a very ineffective helper; at worst, you harm others by attempting to co-opt the people you should be helping, in an attempt to fulfill your own compulsions.

I remember working with a leadership coach who would regularly call the office of one of her clients to tell them that he was sick and would be unable. In fact, her client was a chronic alcoholic who was prone to frequent bouts of heavy drinking that rendered him incapable for days at a stretch. Her “help” was entirely counter-productive. By protecting her client’s self-destructive lifestyle she only perpetuated his alcoholism.

When I asked the coach why she did this she explained that her client had repeatedly told her that he couldn’t manage without her, and that he always felt much better after she took control for him. The coach also said that this man was one of her best clients—and it’s not difficult to understand why: his dependency on her made her feel empowered and created for her the illusion that she was actually helping him. The reality, of course, is that the coach was simply satisfying her need to be needed while the client sank deeper into his cycle of binge drinking.

In this kind of co-dependent relationship, both parties inevitably suffer. The person being helped receives no real beneficial help, while the rescuer becomes overburdened with the dependency of the other. Instead of generating the positive results they both aspire to, the co-dependent relationship between the two becomes a debilitating energy-drain for all concerned.

Sometimes, when ‘‘helping’’ becomes ‘‘rescuing,’’ the person being helped will react to the rescuer’s ministrations by backing away and making a pro-active attempt to resolve the issues they were struggling with on their own. Although this is potentially a good outcome for the person being rescued, the rescuer will try to reassert her control in order to remain as instrumental in achieving success.

As the relationship between the two deteriorates, the subject of the rescue attempt becomes dispirited and confused at the rescuer’s persistent interference while the rescuer becomes increasingly frustrated with the standoffish behavior of the other. Eventually, the rescuer simply abandons the rescue attempt in search of another “victim.” Although this is ultimately good news for the victim, the journey may be painful and his attempts to recover can be severely compromised.

But the rescuer is a victim too. People become rescuers because they have a need to be liked. Saying ‘‘no’’ to someone who has asked a favor is to let that person down and to court dislike. So when a rescuer sees a person in need, he or she will feel obliged to fulfill that person’s request however inconvenient, inappropriate or burdensome the task.

The result, of course, is that rescuers get overloaded with other people’s emotional baggage, which takes up time and drains energy. They become cynical, tired, and apathetic. They lose their idealism and sense of purpose. Worse, they may even unconsciously contaminate the people they try to rescue with their own sense of failure and burnout.

How do you break this co-dependency? Essentially, what’s needed on both sides is a dose of healthy selfishness. The rescuer needs to stop thinking about the needs of others and focus more on their own dreams and aspirations. So if you find yourself being emotionally and physically drained by a professional colleague you feel responsible for perhaps you should take a serious look at why you feel compelled to help that person.

By the same token, if you are a mentee or coachee and you find yourself turning more and more to a mentor or coach whose help seems to be increasingly essential then you might want to ask yourself if the mentor or coach isn’t part of your problem. You should need less mentoring over time, not more.

Tackling the rescuer syndrome does not mean having to give up helping or mentoring other people. The urge to help others is a force for good, so long as it does not involve destructive co-dependency. Constructive mentors and coaches solve their own problems first and recognize that their role is to encourage others to make difficult decisions for themselves.

Thanks Laura, great topic!

There is an acute underlying message of the article in relation to communication, and the same could be applied to communication on forums such as this one. The main take home message to me, is to take a good look at the reasons for "needing" to help someone fix their problems. Is it something you've already successfully resolved in your own life? Is my response externally considerate to help all that are reading, (for the common good)? Am I trying to show off what I know for self importance? Am I feeding on a need to "fix" that person or problem, or am I trying to help that person and others reading by providing a scaffold for them to brace while they work out problems for themselves on their own journey of awareness. These are questions I ask myself, I may not always get it right, but this is the direction I'm working in.

As the article states, it's more or less natural to want to help others. Women suffer from this in their need to nurture, and men suffer from this in their need to rescue damsels in distress and their internal biological need to "fix" things.


Kniall said:
I searched to see if 'white night syndrome' is a recognised term in psychology (it is!) and found this related article:

Understanding and Overcoming the White Knight Syndrome, by Eduard Ezeanu

The white knight.

In fairytales, he is the brave, noble, chivalrous man who comes to the rescue of the fair, helpless damsel in distress], asking nothing in return for his good deeds. In the real world, well, things are a bit more complicated.


Many men have adopted the behavior of the white knight from legends in the way they relate to women. Problem is this behavior often comes from a very dark place, and proves itself fatal for the man possessing it.

In relation to the male instincts for this behavior, Laura Schlessinger addresses this in her book - Ten stupid things men do to mess up their lives:

http://www.amazon.com/Stupid-Things-Mess-Their-Lives/dp/0060929448

She offers similar good advice in, Ten stupid things women do to mess up their lives, and all her books are very good, imo.

On a side note: Men and women should be wary that weaknesses like The White-night Syndrome and the womens need to nurture are exactly the kind of weaknesses psychopaths hone in on.
 
Some time back I realized that 'rescuing' is really stealing; The rescuer is stealing what is possibly the only opportunity to experience that specific 'teaching moment'. And that theft doesn't really provide anything concrete for the rescuer, whereas, if the situation had been left alone, the 'victim' would have made progress in their life.

Upon realizing this, I gained a much different view of 'helping', *AND* a much different view of 'victims'.

I now have a fairly strict policy about helping, so as to avoid rescuing:

1. If I wasn't asked, I'm not helping.

2. Do I have the time and resources to provide help, or is the extent of my help better devoted to referring them to a better source?

3. Is help actually needed, or would I be providing a 'free lunch'?

4. If I believe a situation will be fatal on a mental, physical, or spiritual level, I give myself permission to intervene, with the understanding that it's *still* interfering.
 
Great topic. I think I've been in both positions myself, the rescued and the rescuer although I spent a much longer time being the rescuer and only clearly realized it a year or so ago.

A few more about it _http://howdoidate.com/relationships/unhealthy-relationships/rescuing-yourself-from-your-white-knight-syndrome/

Introduction to the White Knight Syndrome

By Mary C. Lamia, Ph.D. and Marilyn J. Krieger, Ph.D. excerpted in part from The White Knight Syndrome: Rescuing Yourself from Your Need to Rescue Others

In legends and folklore, the white knight rescues the damsel in distress, falls in love, and saves the day. Real-life white knights are men and women who enter into romantic relationships with damaged and vulnerable partners, hoping that love will transform their partner’s behavior or lives; a relationship pattern that seldom leads to a storybook ending. White knights can be any age, race, sexual orientation, culture, or socioeconomic status, but all have the inclination and the need to rescue. Although white knights can exist in a wide range of relationships, such as in a business or a friendship, we will limit our focus to the white knight in intimate relationships.

Take a few moments to consider the various relationships you know about or those in which you’ve been involved. It’s likely you know of relationships that include people who have found partners in need of rescuing-the rescue could have been from anything-unhappiness, financial chaos, substance abuse, depression, an abusive relationship, medical issues, or a past that left them wounded. Perhaps the rescuers you know intuitively recognized their partners’ core neediness or vulnerability, regardless of how well disguised that person’s weakness was at the beginning of their relationship.

You will discover that many rescuers often go from one person in need of rescue to another, riding into each new partner’s life on a white horse to save the day. In the initial stages of the relationship, the rescuer seems gracious and happily altruistic, but as time goes by, he feels increasingly unhappy, disappointed, critical, and powerless.

Although the white knight’s heroic actions may take the form of slaying her partner’s metaphorical dragons, her real goal, which is often beyond her awareness, involves slaying the dragons from her own past. Thus, at a deeper level the compulsive rescuer is trying to repair the negative or damaged sense of herself that developed in childhood.

Unfortunately, the white knight’s choice of a partner, and how that partner is eventually treated, often repeats symbolically the very same kind of distress that the white knight himself experienced in childhood.
Ultimately, rather than repairing his sense of self, this repetition leaves the white knight feeling defeated.


An understanding of the white knight syndrome will help you achieve a greater awareness of your own compulsive rescuing or the rescuing behavior of another person. Our upcoming posts will offer general discussions and case examples that will provide you with a model you can use to asses any unhealthy tendencies you may have to rescue others. We will explore ways to channel your empathy and altruism into healthy, balanced relationships with supportive partners.
 
An incident a few years ago came to mind.

A neighbor and her SO were fighting like cats & dogs, with lots of banging & breaking. The Sheriff did not answer domestic violence calls, and I was sure somebody was going to be seriously injured or killed.

I called another neighbor to see if he would accompany me over there to see if we could get things calmed down. I got his wife, who told me he was sleeping.

I explained what was going on, and wanted to know if she could wake him up to go over there.

In declining my request, she had this to say: "Well, they're adults, aren't they?"

Perhaps the simplest way of not becoming a rescuer is to keep in mind that everyone has a right to their free will, regardless of the crappy outcomes that can produce.

BTW, nobody was seriously injured, or killed in the fight.......
 
MakeEmTalk said:
A neighbor and her SO were fighting like cats & dogs, with lots of banging & breaking. The Sheriff did not answer domestic violence calls [. . .]

That's odd. I think actual physical violence is a situation where it would be most obvious that someone should intervene. Notwithstanding that there are the tragic stories of innocent bystanders who have intervened and ended up getting seriously injured or killed themselves.

I think if I heard some awful row going on, I would try and gauge whether physical violence was actually occurring or likely to be imminent, and wouldn't necessarily do anything if it were just an intense verbal row.

One time there were yells and bangs coming from tenants in the next door property in the middle of the night, and I rang the emergency number. The operator actually asked me on the phone if I could hear if a woman was involved, so domestic violence seemed to be quite a high priority. It was a guy off his head on drugs (no woman involved). The police turned up first, and then an ambulance.

I think the White Knight Syndrome is more about ongoing relationship dynamics, rather than one-off interventions in violent incidents.
 
Co-dependent mentoring is something that is very relevant to my profession as a nurse/social worker case manager. There will always be a part of the population who are so debilitated by a mental or physical disorder who have limited family support who need someone to act in their best interests. However, there is a larger percentage even with mental or physical illness who are in these case management programs -- not sought out for themselves but referred by other parties for various reasons -- and come to get used to the "perks" of having a case manager (someone who will do stuff for you) and turn into dependent adult babies. This type of relationship can last for years or a lifetime.

Even worse are the small subset who are not really mentally ill in the traditional sense but have obvious personality disorders (to me at least) but are playing the system for benefits and again, to have someone do something for you. They can be quite demanding and entitled and can drain you dry. We're encouraged to keep working with this person and try this or that tactic to accomplish some goal that isn't even important to them. Then we get the obligatory "good job" when the client attains some goal. I notice that "bad job" is not said when the person falls back into their usual patterns shortly thereafter.

What is particularly bad -- at least at the agency where I work -- are the goings-on in the substance abuse programs. People are actually allowed to join our program who have repeatedly stated that they do not want to discontinue using whatever substance that they are using. Meanwhile, it is our job to continue to "outreach" to them, chase them all over town and "motivationally interview" (i.e. manipulate) them to "elicit change talk" and "develop discrepencies" on why they should not engage in a, b or c behavior when everything that they do and say shows that they do not want to change. But we have to keep working with them and supporting them in their folly and stepping in to "advocate" for them (with landlords, employers etc.) and hooking them up with even more services and clinicians time and time again. We are stopping them from learning. Oh, and we must remember they bring in money for the agency as well so being very restrictive with who becomes a client doesn't help the bottom line.

I'm all for referring people who ask to social workers and social services but it should be up to them if follow up on it. Case management is okay for short term, to teach certain skills that will lead to greater self-sufficiency, but long-term it is not a good idea in all but a small number of cases, imo. You can become very uneccesarily involved in people's lives to their ultimate detriment. And the case manager can start to over-identify, feel overly responsible, get overloaded with the clients' emotional baggage as the original article states and get plain burned out. You -- I should say I -- can get a tad too invested in the outcome of someone's decisions which is easy to do if you have to clean up when they screw up.

I'm pretty sure I originally got into the whole psychology/mental health field to seek answers about myself. But every time I go to a team meeting I think of how nice it would be to work with widgets.
 
Mal7 said:
That's odd. I think actual physical violence is a situation where it would be most obvious that someone should intervene. Notwithstanding that there are the tragic stories of innocent bystanders who have intervened and ended up getting seriously injured or killed themselves.

--snip--

I think the White Knight Syndrome is more about ongoing relationship dynamics, rather than one-off interventions in violent incidents.

I don't think it's a question of duration or depth of involvement with another.

There's certainly long-term relationships that involve rescuing; I can tell you right off that if a relationship is started on the basis of a rescue, then you should expect that dynamic to continue for the life of the relationship. That's because a 'rescuer' has found his/her 'rescuee', and they mutually fulfill each other's need. Someday, though, one or the other may wish to grow beyond that, whereupon they'll discover that the other party is rather insistent upon them maintaining their 'usual and customary' role in the relationship. Careful what your relationships are based upon.

Really though, the bigger issue is how willing you are to quash the free will of another, in order to restore your vision of a fair and equitable world. Because ultimately the need for rescue is your interpretation of events, and not necessarily the objective interpretation. In many cases the hardship or calamity *IS* the rescue, so if you remove it's effects, then where do you stand?

'Universe' does not bar violence or death as a teaching tool. Yet, (as you pointed out), most of us see those as situations mandating that we intervene. Which is correct?

Most of the time rescuing has an overlooked or ignored factor to it, and that is that frequently one or both are using the situation to gloss over a lack within themselves, rather than working to achieve resolution.

I don't wish to infer that it's wrong to ever help another; Rather, consider carefully before acting. Doctors are supposed to 'First, do no harm'. Keep that in mind in your dealings with others, and if you do choose to act, be prepared to end up with a success rate similar to the medical profession.
 
If a documentary maker is out filming wildlife, and they see a lion attacking an antelope, they probably shouldn't intervene, or there would be a lot of hungry lions around and perhaps too many antelopes.

With bringing up children, we often intervene for what we think is their own good, e.g. we stop them poking wires into electrical sockets, or eating sharp objects etc.

When adults start physically fighting with each other, I am inclined to think they tend to lose control of their rational faculties, and could benefit from the intervention of other saner cooler-headed people. The aggressor is exercising their free will. The victim could be described as having their free-will curbed, possibly but not necessarily always as a result of the victim's own past actions. Innocent bystanders also have the free will to chose whether to intervene or not.

Unlike the lions and antelopes, the people involved are all part of the same society. Though people in that society will have different beliefs, many instances of violent behaviour might meet a lowest common denominator of being generally disapproved of and discouraged by the majority (which doesn't necessarily make the majority right - it might be a tyrannical majority.)
 
But some of us are motivated less by a desire to benefit others and contribute to the common good, and more by a deeper emotional need within ourselves. If you fall into this category, you may be a “rescuer,” a person whose need to help is a self-serving addiction and who is unable to differentiate between their own needs and those of the people they are purporting to help.

The problem with rescuers is that they tend to build unnecessary, unhealthy, and sometimes inappropriate dependency relationships with the people they want to help. At best you make for a very ineffective helper; at worst, you harm others by attempting to co-opt the people you should be helping, in an attempt to fulfill your own compulsions.

But the rescuer is a victim too. People become rescuers because they have a need to be liked. Saying ‘‘no’’ to someone who has asked a favor is to let that person down and to court dislike. So when a rescuer sees a person in need, he or she will feel obliged to fulfill that person’s request however inconvenient, inappropriate or burdensome the task.

The result, of course, is that rescuers get overloaded with other people’s emotional baggage, which takes up time and drains energy. They become cynical, tired, and apathetic. They lose their idealism and sense of purpose. Worse, they may even unconsciously contaminate the people they try to rescue with their own sense of failure and burnout.

I am a bit late to this thread but have been thinking about it quite a bit and discussing with other Forumites. I was setup to be a rescuer by my mother (and she did the same things to all my siblings). Unfortunately, it became a lifelong habit in response to her and anyone remotely pathological who realized that I had this weakness.

I needed a good reminder - I have been working on this for awhile, but I have found that it can creep back in when not paying attention! All anyone has to do is suggest that you aren’t worthy and the program kicks in. Family members, friends, bosses all use it against you – you become completely drained and inefficient and when you cannot fulfil their demands – they drop you. Which in many instances is a good thing – IF you are in a place to realize your good fortune and don’t automatically run out and find someone else to rescue.

How do you break this co-dependency? Essentially, what’s needed on both sides is a dose of healthy selfishness. The rescuer needs to stop thinking about the needs of others and focus more on their own dreams and aspirations. So if you find yourself being emotionally and physically drained by a professional colleague you feel responsible for perhaps you should take a serious look at why you feel compelled to help that person.

The selfishness issue is a big one – it seems with a program like this a person is conditioned to feel selfish if not constantly helping everyone. Even if you know a person is fully capable of doing things for themselves, they always seem to have a reason that trumps yours for suggesting that they help themselves. They well know how to push those buttons. What is difficult for someone brought up in this situation is that most don’t know what “healthy selfishness” really means! What that means for normal people feels like being a rotten person for someone without a correctly calibrated emotional barometer.

Thank you again for posting as the timing is perfect! While I am making big changes in my living/working situation this will be a golden opportunity to move with a completely different outlook. STO giving is NOT rolling over and letting people drain your lifeblood – it just gives energy to the dark side.
 
Laura said:
People become rescuers because they have a need to be liked.

And loved. Some of us are set up for this syndrome before we even have the words to describe it. I remember the sadness I felt when reading certain stories in the narcissism literature. Very young children who had idealized a parent to the point that the child would go into "white knight" mode when the mother (for example) would be angry, depressed, crying, or otherwise self-consumed.

Although I see this tendency as proof of the natural goodness in a child, that's a terrible burden for the little one who is really the one who needs the kind of attention that helps him or her develop an inner core that knows love and some kind of inner feeling of self-value.
 
Buddy said:
Laura said:
People become rescuers because they have a need to be liked.

And loved. Some of us are set up for this syndrome before we even have the words to describe it. I remember the sadness I felt when reading certain stories in the narcissism literature. Very young children who had idealized a parent to the point that the child would go into "white knight" mode when the mother (for example) would be angry, depressed, crying, or otherwise self-consumed.

Although I see this tendency as proof of the natural goodness in a child, that's a terrible burden for the little one who is really the one who needs the kind of attention that helps him or her develop an inner core that knows love and some kind of inner feeling of self-value.

It's heartbreaking to think of the treacherous things that children experience in childhood. I've always been under the mind-set that when teens or adults finally leave home, they should take from their childhood what was valuable and leave the rest behind. And from that point on work on themselves to develop to be the kind of person they wish to be. Fully taking responsibility for themselves as adults and making all the decisions for education and otherwise that will benefit their goals as adults. Unfortunately it's easier said than done. Sometimes the scars are so deep it leaves them helpless, or like you said, they fail to establish proper self worth which would be the foundation or motivation for making beneficial changes in their selves. As you said, these programs can take affect rather early in childhood. All are lessons, but the abuses against children are truly heartbreaking!

Is it true that we choose our parents for the lessons we need in this lifetime. Or to match our karma with this lifetime of lessons to be learned?
 

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