Observation must begin from the beginning

Vic

Vic

Jedi Council Member
"Observation must begin from the beginning. All previous experience, the results of all previous self-observation,must be laid aside. they may contain much valuable material. But all this material is based on wrong divisions of the functions observed and is itself wrongly divided.. It cannot therefore be utilized, at any rate it cannot be utilized at the beginning of the work of self-study. What is of value in it will, at the proper time, be taken up and made use of. But it is necessary to begin from the beginning. a man must begin observing himself as though he did not know himself at all, as though he had never observed himself." In Search of the Miraculous, Page 113.

This is what I now need to do. I have spent years thinking I have been self-observing, and if I have then it has been analysing rather than recording, which is the wrong way round. But looking back I have other-observed far more than self-observed. I have analysed others to such an extent that I can read them and predict their thoughts and actions. Some have been helped by this, and others hurt. And, as Gurdjieff also says, what a distraction from working on oneself.

I honestly thought I had been working on myself. In fact I had, since I was 26 years old, emerging from a road accident about which doctors said it was a miracle I survived. But of course they spoke from their own limited frame of reference. But the work I thought I was doing on myself was the wrong work. But, as Gurdjieff says, there may be some material in it that can be used at some point. I wouldn't like to think it had all been wasted - all that religion, psychotherapy, pyramids hanging from the ceiling, chanting, and god knows what else.

But I actually don't care if that previous material was a complete waste. I really don't, because I am now going to begin from the beginning, in the way G advises - as though I did not know myself. I am sick of my limits, and the need to apologise for myself, and pretending that I have some sort of power to affect the world in an above-average way. I am sick of the up and down nature of my emotional existence.

But the biggest thing that I am sick of is my prison. Reading G has given me some fresh hope and impetus though. It dawned on me that I'm not in prison - I am my prison. My mind isn't imprisoned - my mind is the prison.

I just had a strong feeling that I better not write any more. Members will think I am full of self-importance talking about me, me, me. Maybe I am. I think I've just had enough though. Whatever. I feel like swearing at the irritation of me. Can someone dissect me and hold up the evidence of what exactly the bleep is wrong with me please? I always feel like I am on the verge of cracking it - seeing the truth - breaking through the illusion, but that's all. It hasn't actually happened. I can see the illusion of the world in terms of the PTB, and I have known for a long time that I am a slave, but why am I still a prison?

So now I'm sighing and feel like swearing again. I would love to keep on writing, but that idea of getting on people's nerves has beaten me. Maybe I am getting on your nerves. I certainly get on my own nerves. What the hell am I?
 
Hi The Strawman,

Seems you are reaching a tipping point in your development. Congrats to that. :cool:

The very first step would be to realize that you have to be two in stead of one to be able to observe yourself: the observer and the observed.

A famous text elaborates on that. I hope you already knew of it.

Further reading can be found here.

I would recommend at least the following to start with:

Self-Observation, Inner Talking & Work Instrument

Gurdjieff: The Soul, The First Initiation and Christianity

The Usefulness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center

Buffers, Programs and "the Predator's Mind"

It's quite a lot but essential reading to at least know what you are about to start and how to go about it. Again I hope you already knew at least a little of all these.

Please keep us all posted about how you are doing. And good luck with your endeavor. It's an essential part of the journey, that's for sure! :hug2:

Hope this helps a bit. :)
 
The Strawman said:
[...]
What the hell am I?
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Welcome seeker, perhaps?


The Strawman said:
[...]
I just had a strong feeling that I better not write any more. Members will think I am full of self-importance talking about me, me, me. Maybe I am.
[...]
Click to expand...
Well... yeah. How else can one find themselves without providing data for others to read and provide feedback.
When I ask for help, I look at what words I've written. I cringe, grit my teeth and bite my tongue at the word count. All those "I"s, me(s), mine(s)... Yep. I bet many can relate to this.

The Strawman said:
[...]
I'm not in prison - I am my prison. My mind isn't imprisoned - my mind is the prison.
[...]
Click to expand...
Methinks the Work is coming along. The network is for those who cannot do the Work on their own. Who can? This is for everyone who has an open mind and can (or want to) think for themselves. Doesn't hurt to have skin thick as leather either. But hey, ain't that part of the path for a seeker warrior?

I really shouldn't start what can't be finished. End of the work day. It's dark already. Running late.

Thanks for your words Strawman. Keep the network, discuss what is comfortable, and "listen"..
 
The Strawman, I also second those recommends from Palinurus if you're not already familiar with that material.

The Strawman said:
But the biggest thing that I am sick of is my prison. Reading G has given me some fresh hope and impetus though. It dawned on me that I'm not in prison - I am my prison. My mind isn't imprisoned - my mind is the prison.
...
I just had a strong feeling that I better not write any more. Members will think I am full of self-importance talking about me, me, me.
Click to expand...

Have you read The Active Side of Infinity yet? Here's a related excerpt:

Every one of us human beings has two minds. One is totally ours, and it is like a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose, The other mind is a foreign installation. It brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness: it’s ourselves as the me-me center of the world.
...
We are not naturally petty and contradictory. Our pettiness and contradictions are, rather, the result of a transcendental conflict that afflicts every one of us, but of which only sorcerers are painfully and hopelessly aware: the conflict of our two minds! One is our true mind, the product of all our life experiences, the one that rarely speaks because it has been defeated and relegated to obscurity. The other, the mind we use daily for everything we do, is a foreign installation.
...
I want to appeal to your analytical mind. Think for a moment, and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer and the stupidity of his systems of beliefs, or the stupidity of his contradictory behavior. Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed, and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary, and egomaniacal.
...
In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver; stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now.
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.
.

The Strawman said:
So now I'm sighing and feel like swearing again. I would love to keep on writing, but that idea of getting on people's nerves has beaten me. Maybe I am getting on your nerves. I certainly get on my own nerves.
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We are generally harder on ourselves than most anybody else would be - especially those who've been where you're at and can relate to what you're saying. You certainly don't get on my nerves and the Swamp, proper, is for you to get out whatever you want to, so let that be the last place where you would concern yourself with something like that. :)

Al Today said:
Methinks the Work is coming along.
Click to expand...

Methinks the same.
 
Hi The Strawman,
Here are some tips that I have found practically useful. Following is a quote where Gurdjieff is responding to someone who asked him what he should do. The answer G gave was helpful to me and I remember this often.

[quote author=G in Views From The Real World]
There are two kinds of doing—automatic doing, and doing according to aim. Take a small thing which you now are not able to do, and make this your aim, your God. Let nothing interfere. Only aim at this. Then, if you succeed in doing this, I will be able to give you a greater task. Now you have an appetite to do things too big for you. This is an abnormal appe- tite. You can never do these things, and this appetite keeps you from doing the small things you might do. Destroy this appetite, forget big things. Make the breaking of a small habit your aim.
[/quote]

I have seen that I display this "abnormal appetite" at times trying to do things that are currently beyond my ken. When this happens, I suffer needlessly, waste energy and cause problems. Focusing on smaller manageable aims provides far better results. It builds will, increases confidence and increases awareness of what is real.

When working on first understanding and then changing some small habit or reaction, it is useful to distinguish between thinking, moving and feeling centers. The thinking center is the easiest to recruit and it falls in line with the aim we may have through reading and discussing stuff. But the thinking center alone is not strong enough to bring about change in the whole organism. So simply reading about something and knowing about it intellectually is not enough. A second center has to be recruited in order to increase the chances for change to take place. G seemed to have put some emphasis in correcting wrong habits of the moving-instinctive center. Here in the forum, we put stress on diet - which would make the body function more optimally. Impetus for changing the diet comes from the intellectual center and learning that gluten, sugar etc are bad for health. The emotional center weighs in with a desire for change especially when we suffer from some ailments and there is hope that a change in diet would make things better. Working together, the intellectual and emotional centers can in the long run, slowly, win over the body cravings that have taken hold due to harmful food habits and improve the functioning of the body. This in turn affects thinking and emotions positively as well.

To change an emotional habit is more difficult in many cases. We have greater chance of success if we can recruit the body to come to the aid of the intellectual center. Along with following the diet (which is sort of the foundation), we can record the posture that we hold when we are under the influence of the emotional habit that we are trying to address. There is enough research to support the assertion that characteristic postures accompany specific emotional reactions. We can verify this for ourselves quite easily. Once we know this, we can focus on our posture and train our body to alert us when we hit that posture. To do this, some preparation may be needed.

We can work on sensitizing our body through simple exercises and education so that we can carry a relaxed, appropriately aligned erect posture. This posture becomes our home base - one that we practice coming back to several times a day. I find it a good exercise. We can remind ourselves in various ways through out the day to become aware of the body posture and come back to the home-base posture using whatever cue is convenient. One idea is to use the watch/computer/cellphone to beep as an alarm. We can get fancy and set up random times for the alarm as well. As we gradually get comfortable with our home-base posture, the body gives us cues when we are out of it - so it gets easier with time.

Then we are in a better position to work on changing some long-standing emotional habit triggered by some external event. We record and recognize the posture which accompanies the emotional state and acknowledge how it drives the body as well as our thinking. We train to decouple the emotion from the thought. The first step is to say "stop" to ourselves. We need to buy time by stopping ourselves from responding immediately. We can say to ourselves that we will respond to this issue in 15 minutes time. In that interval, instead of focusing on the external trigger and let our thoughts run away, we focus on our internal state, acknowledge the emotion (e.g I am angry) and move on to focus on the body sensations and posture that accompany the emotion. Then we work on coming back to the home-base posture accompanied by pipe breathing. Here we are in a better position to appraise the situation and respond appropriately.

These are some steps which have helped me on my journey so far - take fwiw.
 
The Strawman, I would just like to add to what has been suggested here. First off, observing ourselves to watch the programs kick into play is what G. has said is the first step in the work. Once you recognize these programs and can start to "taste" them, to see them working and can identify them, you are able to start on the path of getting them under control.

But there is also the fact that we cannot see ourselves clearly. As it says in The First Initiation, we do lie to ourselves regularly. The best way to see ourselves is through others. They can, actually, see us better than we can see ourselves. When someone tells you that you did this or that, take the time to go back through the exchanges that caused this response from someone else to see what was going on with yourself at the time. Don't take a defensive stance and think that they don't know you at all and so must be wrong.

I think that two good threads to read are, Thinking Fast and Slow and The Adaptive Unconscious. And, if you can, buy the books and read more fully about these things. These are present day conformations, by researchers, of what G. was trying to show us. And these books really bring it home, at least for me they did.
 
It dawned on me that I'm not in prison - I am my prison. My mind isn't imprisoned - my mind is the prison
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Gravity keeps us here keeps us in this earth prison. Its not just your mind that is the prison. Have you ever noticed that if you have a body ache on that day you might not be in the best mood or you think negative thoughts more often this is the pain from the mechanical center influencing the others. The goal is not only to be able to live happily with your mind but with your body, emotional center and healthy intelectual center. Sometimes I "FEEL" like I am in a prison but then I catch myself in that moment and decide to do something that I enjoy. You have made progress in this prison on this earth in the work I feel the doubt and negative feelings are the strongest when we make progress and realize how far we still have to go knowing that what we already did took much time and effort so the task can feel daunting. In reality everyone is in this prison called earth. However you have recognized the importance of improving your centers so that on this earth prison you can function from a more positive state. After all on some level you chose this prison. Maybe be easier/kinder to yourself/slow down a bit/take some time do something that bring you joy. The work is always here. Also remember that somewhere someone would like to be in your prison if you consider how homeless people commit crimes to go to real prison so they can have three meals a day, a bed, shelter, books....You see that there is more work to do however others would like to be where you are at...take some stock in that
 
Palinurus, Al Today, Buddy, Obyvatel, Nienna and Menna - I appreciate your responses and help very much. I have read them all through and will do so again. I've started self-observation. To begin with, identifying the centres related to a function was an impenetrable maze - I couldn't distinguish even simple actions or behaviours in terms of centres - then I read what G says about it again, and think I managed to identify a couple of functions 'live' - I seem to have realised that I am thinking-centre dominated. Emotion is suppressed and always has been. I always regarded emotion as primitive - a sort of low-level, unevolved human function to be mastered and controlled. Whoops! :huh:
Anyway, I am back to square one in a sense, but at the same time I have made a definite start OSIT.
This is amazing Work. It makes so much sense it feels like Truth, if you know what I mean.
I am glad, in a way, that I made that internally considerate post in the Janosabel thread. OldMcDonald would have survived it. But being pulled up by Laura about it triggered something. I suppose I felt worthless - nowhere near as good as I thought I was or could be. I let myself down - well, maybe it was more a case of seeing the reflection of myself as far less than I hoped it would be. It was the acceptance of it that gave me the choice - use it or lose it.

Funny though, I feel like I'm getting clean. Strange analogy, but it's as though I've been having superficial stand-up washes by the sink, instead of getting into the bath and doing it properly :rolleyes: I think I just got into a hot bath.

I'm going to take timeout on posting on other threads, but I want to keep this one going if I may. This is the only possible place, I think, that can provide the mirrors that I think I'll need for a short while - just while I get accustomed to this new way of using my conscious mind so to speak.
Thanks again for all the incredible feedback you gave me. I'll be using every part of it in conjunction with ISOTM.
Take care.
 
The Strawman said:
I've started self-observation. To begin with, identifying the centres related to a function was an impenetrable maze - I couldn't distinguish even simple actions or behaviours in terms of centres - then I read what G says about it again, and think I managed to identify a couple of functions 'live' - I seem to have realised that I am thinking-centre dominated. Emotion is suppressed and always has been. I always regarded emotion as primitive - a sort of low-level, unevolved human function to be mastered and controlled.
Click to expand...

Emotions often tend to call the shots from behind the scenes, affecting thinking and the body. We call it "emotional thinking". It may give the appearance of being dominated by the thinking function but it is not. Similarly, some chronic bodily discomfort which has gotten "familiar" enough can easily drive emotions and thoughts without us being aware of it. These are some facts which make the study of centers complicated.

I do not know if it is possible to clearly and cleanly delienate the thinking, feeling and sensing functions in terms of behavior. They are usually inextricably mixed up. That is why efforts to decouple thought, feeling and sensation to some degree is important imo.
 
Emotions often tend to call the shots from behind the scenes, affecting thinking and the body. We call it "emotional thinking"
Click to expand...

Yes, I have a perfect example of this. I had a high school reunion a few weeks ago. It was a great time. After the reunion I was alone in the kitchen and all these emotions started in me and I had thoughts of...I am going to miss these people, I should have reached out more, I should have been friends with more of them, I should contact them. All these emotions of loss and how I should do more popped up and took control of my thoughts. I caught myself doing this remembered myself and in that moment new thoughts entered thoughts about how I am telling myself lies how my emotions are bullying my thinking center how these feeling are ok to have but iti s important to not let them control my thoughts/actions. This is the first time I was able to do this watch my emotions, see them take control of my thoughts and looking over my life/remembering the work and being able to discern how these emotions are true because I am having them however they are driving my thoughts and these thoughts are not in my best interest they are lies. Then I thought to myself wow for years I must have had emotionally misguided thoughts and then that results in misguided actions. Talk about A influences keeping one stagnant or regressing. A influences are not only outside us but inside us. Its important to create healthy boundaries with others but also healthy boundaries with ourself
 
Here it is, I don't know how the link got chopped up.

EDIT: wrong link!

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,33064.msg461494.html#msg461494
 
Palinurus said:
Hi The Strawman,

Seems you are reaching a tipping point in your development. Congrats to that. :cool:

The very first step would be to realize that you have to be two in stead of one to be able to observe yourself: the observer and the observed.

A famous text elaborates on that. I hope you already knew of it.

Further reading can be found here.

I would recommend at least the following to start with:

Self-Observation, Inner Talking & Work Instrument

Gurdjieff: The Soul, The First Initiation and Christianity

The Usefulness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center

Buffers, Programs and "the Predator's Mind"

It's quite a lot but essential reading to at least know what you are about to start and how to go about it. Again I hope you already knew at least a little of all these.

Please keep us all posted about how you are doing. And good luck with your endeavor. It's an essential part of the journey, that's for sure! :hug2:

Hope this helps a bit. :)
Click to expand...

I had read The First Initiation. I read it again though and took more from it. I'm close to the end of ISOTM and I'm looking forward to reading all your suggested texts. Thanks, Palinurus. The G teachings/knowledge is what I have been thirsting for for decades. At last someone who really knew the mechanics of existence. I'm beginning to understand how Laura, you and others felt when G's work came into your lives.
 
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