What have I learned?

Human

The Living Force
The initial intention was to write about two things.
The Desire and how its presence in me, whether intrinsically mine and induced from the outside, resulted in submission of my will and thinking to another person who had the power to fulfill and satisfy the starting desire. In short, voluntarily enslaving myself even more.
Then the Helplessness, lack of ability to stand my ground. What was observed, realized and decided one moment, in the next would perish in the air, fall apart, and the same unhealthy, sleeping and emotionally driven behaviour would quickly be back on the roll. Shortly, being a slave of myself most of the time, of my own behaviour and habits.

When recently asked the question what have I learned since left the network more than two years ago, I answered, among other things,
I've learned that I was good and acceptable while providing and giving what was wanted from me, while obeying and letting be guided what to do and what to think. As soon as I myself started wanting something and doing in that direction, I was bad, selfish, egotistical and looking only for my own benefit.

Then someone told me I've been playing that "poor me" record once again and rejecting the responsibility and consequences of my actions, i.e. looking for the culprit outside of myself, since for that person, actions define my personality, i.e. who I really am.
Never mind the multiple little Is and nonequivalence of personality and essence, she got me thinking.
Really, what have I learned during being away from here?

I've started to list my traits, some of which are probably implanted from outside. On the other hand some realizations surely emerged from inside. So I've pulled the sleeves up and plunged the hands into the mud.
  • I was careless, too sure at myself, didn't think how my actions affect other people involved. Didn't care about others, i.e. was only internally considering myself and what I want. While in practice I did the opposite, in order to be accepted, since that's my ultimate underlying desire, I pretended to be something that I was not acting to present the other people projections. While feeding on these projections my self-importance, ego, would grow, and a great deal of energy was used on maintaining the self-image of a good, helping everybody, especially lady in distress, guy. What's really painful, I KNOW that's the classic vampire dynamic!
  • I have a lack of responsibility and pronounced laziness of doing something on my own, it's easier to have somebody else tell me what to do and what to think, than to take the wheel in my own hands, use my head, have the gray cells do some work on their own, and take the responsibility for my action.
  • I'm weak, not only that I can't help others, I can't help myself in the first place. I'm forgetful of other people doings, both bad and good, and consequently gullible and ungrateful. I'm too easily fascinated with things, especially with mysterious, psychic and paranormal, thus in that state I'll buy almost whatever you sell me, however incredible that may be.
  • I usually don't regret much of things done, perceive them as something that needed to occur and as lessons to learn, which in itself is not such a bad thing if only I would actually learn something quick and not need so many repetitions to finally sink in. I regret one thing and being most afraid of it at the same time, of letting people down, which again makes the full circle back to imposed image of self how I want that other people see me.
Basically, as I see it, there is a neglected child underneath these layers that desperately seeks attention, picking other people projections very well, resulting in not knowing who and what I really am and want.

Some things I did learn for sure.
I can't do it on my own and I particularly do less and drown much easier and quicker without the EE.
Consequently, from all stated above, the network is indispensable for me.

Also, after said that I had withdrawn when in fact had turned my back on the group two years ago, I was asked
If you received another mirror, is there any reason to think you wouldn't just "withdraw" again?
to which I replied
There is no certainty I won't crawl under the stone again once things go tough on me. I only know I fight it as hard and as much I can...

I like to think that I'm more mature, at least for a little bit, after the period being away. If nothing else, I do look at it as lessons that I had to go through, to value certain things in life that matter for me. In addition, to stop whining about how unfair life is in general and dreaming of removing myself from it into some shielded glass bulb where I can do what I want in peace with no worries about how to make for a living.
With respect to that, it was very interesting to see that obyvatel was the first who spoke to me on forum after my return.


edit: grammar
 
Hi Saša,

Thanks for your post and welcome back!

I can relate to much what you said - self-importance is at the crux of the matter and is hard to fight, because it blinds us to the facts. While the wish to help others, to learn and develop and be a constructive person is still around, it is easily drowned by self-importance. After I joined this network I quickly thought I had it all figured out, NOW I knew the truth. I now start realize how foolish that was, and how much more I don't know. I have realized that I have barely been scratching at the surface. And that I very much need guidance from others to navigate these treacherous waters.

I found that the best way to face this is to network, to have a hard look at oneself in the mirrors that will invariably be presented to you when you participate here.

Of course it is not easy, as it is kind of a vicious circle - self-importance prevents you from learning and at the same time prevents you from being able to accept the mirroring, but the only way forward is to try to break this circle. The other thing (at least in my case) is shame, of having let down and blinded others. Again self-importance is what is preventing us to move forward.

But then, when we fall, the only way forward is to get up again and keep going ... and this is something I owe entirely to myself!
 
Hi Sasa,
I myself was away for quite awhile. Sometimes, for various reasons we have an urge to leave. But we have to step back now and then from our own understanding, be it as good or bad as it is, in order to get a detached view of the consequences of our doings.

We are all at times the Prodigal Son - we need our share of experiences as our life would be stale. We cannot be just good and obediant all the time, doing all the proper things, or we woudn't be here.

And we wouldn't be welcome upon our return.

You shared something, so everybody can learn from it. That is the purpose of life.

Welcome back
Joy
 
Saša said:
I like to think that I'm more mature, at least for a little bit, after the period being away. If nothing else, I do look at it as lessons that I had to go through, to value certain things in life that matter for me. In addition, to stop whining about how unfair life is in general and dreaming of removing myself from it into some shielded glass bulb where I can do what I want in peace with no worries about how to make for a living.
With respect to that, it was very interesting to see that obyvatel was the first who spoke to me on forum after my return.

I am not sure whether you catched up with cognitive science threads or not. If not, you may want go through them and those books.

Thinking, Fast And Slow
The Adaptive Unconscious
Splitting as a Symptom of Internal Considering
Redirect
 
Thank you for welcoming me back and your comments.

I haven't been quite able to understand, i.e. to see that in myself, what the C's said about my behaviour two years ago
Q: (L) Well, why are they not responding to the thread about these issues?

A: Shame drives defense.

Q: (L) What do you mean by "defense"?

A: Convincing themselves.

Q: (L) Convincing themselves that they are channeling, that they can channel, or that they did make legitimate contact... Is that what you're saying?

A: Yes
In particular, I haven't observed the shame they mentioned, while the interpretation of the "defense" was valid from my point of view. Maybe they meant "not allowing myself to see that I was played with", which directs to self-importance...

seek10 said:
I am not sure whether you catched up with cognitive science threads or not. If not, you may want go through them and those books.

Thinking, Fast And Slow
The Adaptive Unconscious
Splitting as a Symptom of Internal Considering
Redirect
No, I haven't, thanks for those links.
 
Saša said:
Thank you for welcoming me back and your comments.

I haven't been quite able to understand, i.e. to see that in myself, what the C's said about my behaviour two years ago
Q: (L) Well, why are they not responding to the thread about these issues?

A: Shame drives defense.

Q: (L) What do you mean by "defense"?

A: Convincing themselves.

Q: (L) Convincing themselves that they are channeling, that they can channel, or that they did make legitimate contact... Is that what you're saying?

A: Yes
In particular, I haven't observed the shame they mentioned, while the interpretation of the "defense" was valid from my point of view. Maybe they meant "not allowing myself to see that I was played with", which directs to self-importance...

I think they are saying that the underlying motivation for the 'defense mechanism' (i.e., convincing yourselves that you were legit) was a more fundamental feeling of shame, i.e., of being socially 'outed'. Shame is a normal reaction when we do something foolish that is exposed to our social group. It's the "Oh God, I feel like an idiot. I just want to hide my face and curl up in the corner" feeling you get when you are exposed and you lose the (perceived) esteem with which you used to be held. The root emotions that drive our actions and narratives are often unconscious or 'blocked' from consciousness. If you did NOT feel this way consciously, it still makes sense: to avoid feeling it, you tried to convince yourself that YOU were in the right. Do you think that might fit?
 
Approaching Infinity said:
I think they are saying that the underlying motivation for the 'defense mechanism' (i.e., convincing yourselves that you were legit) was a more fundamental feeling of shame, i.e., of being socially 'outed'. Shame is a normal reaction when we do something foolish that is exposed to our social group. It's the "Oh God, I feel like an idiot. I just want to hide my face and curl up in the corner" feeling you get when you are exposed and you lose the (perceived) esteem with which you used to be held. The root emotions that drive our actions and narratives are often unconscious or 'blocked' from consciousness. If you did NOT feel this way consciously, it still makes sense: to avoid feeling it, you tried to convince yourself that YOU were in the right. Do you think that might fit?

It seems right.
Maybe I didn't consciously feel ashamed, like in being "outed", but I certainly thought I was. Almost each time when I wanted to come here and explain, I had a whole avalanche of thought constructions going on that pushed in that direction.
That explains also an additional thing, why I turned to blindly trust and believe them in contrast to hearing what the network input on the whole situation was.
If intrinsically feeling "outed" by the network, which was perceived as family at that time, I was probably instantly searching and looking for the quickest way to feel accepted again, i.e. for the replacement.

Thank you AI, your comment surely opened a new way to look on things back then. :flowers:

edit: spelling
 
Hey Saša,

Welcome back to the forum. I've been checking in regularly with the Caesar was Christ thread, and I only put together that you had were one of the forum members that had experimented with chanelling and the board. I came upon that thread through the new Knowledge & Being videos that were posted last year. I must say, reading that thread about your experiment was cringeworthy. :scared:

It's interesting to read your retrospective take on the dynamic that was present at that time. Given everything that transpired, it must have taken quite some courage to make that first post to reconnect!
 
Arwenn said:
Hey Saša,

Welcome back to the forum.

Thanks Arwenn.

Arwenn said:
I must say, reading that thread about your experiment was cringeworthy. :scared:

I don't understand what you mean by "cringeworthy". Could you please explain?

Arwenn said:
It's interesting to read your retrospective take on the dynamic that was present at that time. Given everything that transpired, it must have taken quite some courage to make that first post to reconnect!

Not really.
It's the natural consequence of looking back at things, as objectively as possible, and trying to be honest to oneself. Speaking out and writing about the findings, breaks the grip of the shame (or some other emotion that imprisons) due to lying and avoiding, present in my last post before I left the network.
I think that harder part was to overcome self-importance and do the first step to go to look back at things. After that, it only took a decision to be objective, not let thinking feed on emotions (in this particular case distorted ones like "being done something wrong") and pathetic behaviour (lying and avoiding) became obvious.

Why do you think "it must have taken quite some courage to make that first post to reconnect"?

edit: clarity
 
Cringeworthy just means that I cringed when I read that initial post in that thread and the reactions of the forum. And as for courage, I guess I meant getting past emotions, self-doubt, self-importance to re-connect, without any attachment to the outcome.

Most of this is may just be my projection of what I would feel if I were in your shoes (I tend to do that a lot, so it's a good lesson for me here).
 
Saša said:
I don't understand what you mean by "cringeworthy". Could you please explain?

Cringeworthy is a portmanteau of two words - cringe and worthy. It's defined as "causing feelings of embarrassment or distaste.".
 
Heimdallr said:
Saša said:
I don't understand what you mean by "cringeworthy". Could you please explain?

Cringeworthy is a portmanteau of two words - cringe and worthy. It's defined as "causing feelings of embarrassment or distaste.".

Thanks for chiming in Heimdallr, that explains it perfectly.
 
Arwenn said:
Cringeworthy just means that I cringed when I read that initial post in that thread and the reactions of the forum. And as for courage, I guess I meant getting past emotions, self-doubt, self-importance to re-connect, without any attachment to the outcome.

Most of this is may just be my projection of what I would feel if I were in your shoes (I tend to do that a lot, so it's a good lesson for me here).
Heimdallr said:
Saša said:
I don't understand what you mean by "cringeworthy". Could you please explain?

Cringeworthy is a portmanteau of two words - cringe and worthy. It's defined as "causing feelings of embarrassment or distaste.".

Thanks, I understand now. :)
 
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