Session 22 March 2014

Laura said:
PhoenixToEmber and davey72, your posts are 1) violation of privacy and 2)off-topic, and have been put in storage. We redact names for a reason. Just because you think you know who the redacted individual is, doesn't mean everyone does, including casual readers from anywhere.

Plus, we prefer NOT to feed crocodiles.

Sorry, Laura. :shock: I figured it would be alright because I didn't use any specific name except for the abbreviation used in the board session. And because she referenced the board session I also figured it was on topic.

Now I feel like a jerk. :-[
 
Dugdeep said:
Yes, I think you're engaged in some black and white thinking in regards to sex, alteroru486. Sex is neither all bad nor all good. It can be nothing but a carnal pleasuring the self for purely selfish reasons or it can be a beautiful expression of love. And I think a desire for sex is a natural human desire and a part of the human experience. It's not something to denigrate or surround in shame or disgust.

My thoughts exactly. Total abstinence makes me think of breatharianism. It's black and white thinking. It's not because something is 'abused' by many people (food, sex, etc.) that it needs to be given up altogether. Denying we have a physical body is denying reality as it is. It's putting the cart before the horse. No human being is so advanced that they can bypass the physical, osit.
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Dugdeep said:
Yes, I think you're engaged in some black and white thinking in regards to sex, alteroru486. Sex is neither all bad nor all good. It can be nothing but a carnal pleasuring the self for purely selfish reasons or it can be a beautiful expression of love. And I think a desire for sex is a natural human desire and a part of the human experience. It's not something to denigrate or surround in shame or disgust.

My thoughts exactly. Total abstinence makes me think of breatharianism. It's black and white thinking. It's not because something is 'abused' by many people (food, sex, etc.) that it needs to be given up altogether. Denying we have a physical body is denying reality as it is. It's putting the cart before the horse. No human being is so advanced that they can bypass the physical, osit.

I agree with both of you. The key to self-mastery isn't abstinence, it's temperance and right intention/use-of-energy. I've been finishing up In Search of the Miraculous and this discussion reminds me of the discussion Gurdjieff's pupils had with him about sex, recounted in chapter 12:

"Completed transmutation, that is to say, the formation of the 'astral body,' is possible only in a healthy, normally functioning organism. In a sick, or a perverted, or a crippled organism, no transmutation is possible."

"Is complete sexual abstinence necessary for transmutation and is sexual abstinence, in general, useful for work on oneself?" we asked him.

"Here there is not one but a number of questions," said G. "In the first place sexual abstinence is necessary for transmutation only in certain cases, that is, for certain types of people. For others it is not at all necessary. And with yet others it comes by itself when transmutation begins. I will explain this more clearly. For certain types a long and complete sexual abstinence is necessary for transmutation to begin; this means in other words that without a long and complete sexual abstinence transmu­tation will not begin. But once it has begun abstinence is no longer necessary. In other cases, that is, with other types, transmutation can begin in a normal sexual life—and on the contrary, can begin sooner and proceed better with a very great outward expenditure of sex energy. In the third case the beginning of transmutation does not require abstinence, but, having begun, transmutation takes the whole of sexual energy and puts an end to normal sexual life or the outward expenditure of sex energy.

"Then the other question—'Is sexual abstinence useful for the work or not?'

"It is useful if there is abstinence in all centers. If there is abstinence in one center and full liberty of imagination in the others, then there could be nothing worse. And still more, abstinence can be useful if a man knows what to do with the energy which he saves in this way. If he does not know what to do with it, nothing whatever can be gained by abstinence."

"Speaking in general, what is the most correct form of life in this connection from the point of view of the work?"

"It is impossible to say. I repeat that while a man does not know it is better for him not to attempt anything. Until he has new and exact knowledge it will be quite enough if his life is guided by the usual rules and principles. If a man begins to theorize and invent in this sphere, it will lead to nothing except psychopathy. But it must again be remembered that only a person who is completely normal as regards sex has any chance in the work. Any kind of 'originality,' strange tastes, strange desires, or, on the other hand, fears, constantly working 'buffers,' must be destroyed from the very beginning. Modem education and modem life create an enormous number of sexual psychopaths. They have no chance at all in the' work.

"Speaking in general, there are only two correct ways of expending sexual energy—normal sexual life and transmutation. All inventions in this sphere are very dangerous.

"People have tried abstinence from times beyond memory. Sometimes, very rarely, it has led to something but in most cases what is called abstinence is simply exchanging normal sensations for abnormal, because the abnormal are more easily hidden. But it is not about this that I wish to speak. You must understand where lies the chief evil and what makes for slavery. It is not in sex itself but in the abuse of sex. But what the abuse of sex means is again misunderstood. People usually take this to be either excess or perversion. But these are comparatively innocent forms of abuse of sex. And it is necessary to know the human machine very well in order to grasp what abuse of sex in the real meaning of these words is. It means the wrong work of centers in relation to sex, that is, the action of the sex center through other centers, and the action of other centers through the sex center; or, to be still more precise, the functioning of the sex center with energy borrowed from other centers and the functioning of other centers with energy borrowed from the sex center."
 
It can be argued but I have a feeling that sexual activity is all right only in STO civilisations. Still I can be wrong because we know very little about living in STO environment. We know only that STO is giving unconditional help to other members of the society, whereas STS is abusing other members of the society.
 
alteroru486, to me, in all honesty, you sound like someone who is very frustrated. Someone who is not getting what they want out of life. Someone who is looking for reasons to make the world out there bad and them good. To make their suffering have meaning. To make it somewhat bearable.

Reading your last responses here.. I can see that you are talking to yourself. Some other part of yourself. You are trying to convince yourself of something.

What will happen? I'll tell you what will happen... your words won't change the reality you experience. Making the world out there all-bad won't. The only thing that can change it is if you start making some choices and start taking real action. You can start by being truthful... with yourself. At no point have you criticised yourself.. it is always a worrying sign when someone doesn't see anything wrong with them when it comes to any negative experiences they are having. You interact with the world, it is not a one way street. You recognize that some elements of the outside world don't have your best interests at heart, yet you don't recognise these elements in you.

If you are truthful with yourself.... then you have somewhere to start from.

If you truly believe what you are saying... then you live in a very dark world. Regarding sex... don't waste your energy with stories of good/bad. I suspect you have no choices... sometimes people grow to hate what they can't have, grow to despise it and all that. This is a big risk and it can consume you from the inside. Understand what is happening. You hate the world because it isn't giving you what you want. You've then projected all your hope and coping mechanism into STO/STS 3D/4D stories that you are using to

a) Bear the pain.
b) Keep you exactly where you are.

What do you have to do going forward if you intend to change what you experience:

a) You have to allow yourself to feel the pain without the lies. If you numb yourself, then you lock yourself into place. The stories you are telling yourself, this is what makes the walls of the prison you find yourself in.
b) Start engaging with some real work as taught in the forum rather than something to just make you feel good and cope with your frustrations. It's as simple as just reading SOTT regularly.

This in my view is what explains you. Either that or you went off on a completely wrong turn somewhere in the past... lost in the wilderness. Lastly, me and you aren't that different, so that is why I wrote the above.
 
alteroru486, before I forget, I'd just like to tell you that we all have our own personalised prisons. Again, like with everything, it's not just something imposed on us by the external world/other people, it is also something we impose on ourselves. One thing that they do say, which in my experience is true, is that we can never really step outside ourselves and have a clear external view of who we are. A view that isn't tainted with the internal subjective impressions we have. This is one of the reasons why we can't help but add our effort to imprisoning ourself even further. If you are clever, you should find people who can see you and ask them what they see. These people aren't tainted with your own internal impressions that stop you from seeing yourself. I need not say you should use the resources available to you here...
 
Is there other material besides the 3-18-1995 transcript that describes what the Flight 19 team of researchers found? The transcript says the findings are being kept secret.
 
In order not to dwell too much I remind you just what I wrote earlier. Some souls need much suffering for development, mainly just to move from STS to STO, however, there are the souls who found their way here for various reasons by mistake (to explain it I would have to point to the evidence I've read, and it would take several pages, I do not have time to write about that) and they usually commit suicide when they notice that. If those souls are advanced in their development, such a suicide is considered by guides from the 5d and 6d as a normal termination of life, and those souls do not for that reason suffer any consequences. So it is not true that all men rightly have been placed here and that we rightly should try to survive all kinds of suffering until we die of old age. In a normal school one remembers one's previous semesters and it helps to learn in the next semesters. We do not remember our past lives because this is _not_ a normal school in the Earth. This is a concentration camp and this is a completely unique planet, one of very few in the universe, so do not tell me that these are "lessons" and that therefore every evil that is happening here is justified.
 
luke wilson said:
alteroru486, to me, in all honesty, you sound like someone who is very frustrated. Someone who is not getting what they want out of life. Someone who is looking for reasons to make the world out there bad and them good. To make their suffering have meaning. To make it somewhat bearable.

Reading your last responses here.. I can see that you are talking to yourself. Some other part of yourself. You are trying to convince yourself of something.

What will happen? I'll tell you what will happen...
..................................
This in my view is what explains you. Either that or you went off on a completely wrong turn somewhere in the past... lost in the wilderness. Lastly, me and you aren't that different, so that is why I wrote the above.

Luke Wilson, you appear to be projecting quite a lot in this post. Also, you are trying to mirror a new member of the forum, which is not a good idea. If you wish to help alteroru486, you can share your own experiences instead of making assumptions about alteroru486.
 
obyvatel said:
luke wilson said:
alteroru486, to me, in all honesty, you sound like someone who is very frustrated. Someone who is not getting what they want out of life. Someone who is looking for reasons to make the world out there bad and them good. To make their suffering have meaning. To make it somewhat bearable.

Reading your last responses here.. I can see that you are talking to yourself. Some other part of yourself. You are trying to convince yourself of something.

What will happen? I'll tell you what will happen...
..................................
This in my view is what explains you. Either that or you went off on a completely wrong turn somewhere in the past... lost in the wilderness. Lastly, me and you aren't that different, so that is why I wrote the above.

Luke Wilson, you appear to be projecting quite a lot in this post. Also, you are trying to mirror a new member of the forum, which is not a good idea. If you wish to help alteroru486, you can share your own experiences instead of making assumptions about alteroru486.

Ok!

Alteroru486, the reason I may have projected is because I suppose what you are saying doesn't align with what I have read in the recommended material or just generally on the forum. I mistakenly thought your pre-occupation with suffering and how things are so bad, your desperation for the wave and to consider yourself STO was a mask for something else, apologies.
 
alteroru486 said:
In order not to dwell too much I remind you just what I wrote earlier. Some souls need much suffering for development, mainly just to move from STS to STO, however, there are the souls who found their way here for various reasons by mistake (to explain it I would have to point to the evidence I've read, and it would take several pages, I do not have time to write about that) and they usually commit suicide when they notice that. If those souls are advanced in their development, such a suicide is considered by guides from the 5d and 6d as a normal termination of life, and those souls do not for that reason suffer any consequences. So it is not true that all men rightly have been placed here and that we rightly should try to survive all kinds of suffering until we die of old age. In a normal school one remembers one's previous semesters and it helps to learn in the next semesters.

Sounds like a bunch of assumptions to me. In most cases (unless you're terminal beyond hope) suicide seems like "dropping out of school" because you think you're too "advanced" for it, which is self-importance. If you're here, you have lessons to learn. Period.

We do not remember our past lives because this is _not_ a normal school in the Earth. This is a concentration camp and this is a completely unique planet, one of very few in the universe...

More assumptions. And have you been to other planets in other solar systems and galaxies (or maybe even alternate dimensions)? I really don't see how you could possibly know so surely that our planet is "unique" in that sense.

so do not tell me that these are "lessons" and that therefore every evil that is happening here is justified.

It seems you missed the point of what the C's are saying overall, and are getting lost in wishful thinking based on the density levels. If you recall, their main axiom is "all there is is lessons"--ALL. You seem to think some are excluded from this, including yourself. It's not about "justifying" the evil and suffering that happens here, it's about seeing it for what it is, because it is, and deciding where you align. That doesn't necessarily mean just lay down and take it and don't fight back, but it definitely means don't think you're so important that you don't have to endure it, or that you can change all of it and somehow make it go away and then beat yourself up over it when you can't. According to Don Juan, relinquishing our self-importance and dealing with this world by facing "petty tyrants" is actually how we become impeccable, and it's an integral part of the Work.
 
PhoenixToEmber said:
In most cases (unless you're terminal beyond hope) suicide seems like "dropping out of school" because you think you're too "advanced" for it, which is self-importance. If you're here, you have lessons to learn. Period.

Sorry, what I should have said is that in most cases suicide seems like "dropping out of school" because the lessons were too difficult and one could not handle them, but in the case of what you described, because of thinking one is too "advanced" for those lessons--which would mean that their overall lesson at that point was to conquer their self-importance.
 
alteroru486 said:
It can be argued but I have a feeling that sexual activity is all right only in STO civilisations. Still I can be wrong because we know very little about living in STO environment. We know only that STO is giving unconditional help to other members of the society, whereas STS is abusing other members of the society.

I think it has been said by the C's that there would be no sex in an STO world. It is an addictive activity. OSIT
 
davey72 said:
alteroru486 said:
It can be argued but I have a feeling that sexual activity is all right only in STO civilisations. Still I can be wrong because we know very little about living in STO environment. We know only that STO is giving unconditional help to other members of the society, whereas STS is abusing other members of the society.

I think it has been said by the C's that there would be no sex in an STO world. It is an addictive activity. OSIT
Can you find the quote? Unless you no longer have a physicality (which the Cs have said is 6th density), the biologic entity would need to reproduce somehow.
 
I am always really lousy at finding quotes in the sessions. Maybe someone else knows what i am speaking of, but reproduction doesn't necessarily have to equate with sex. Look at single celled organisms for just one example.
 
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