Feline Interstitial Cystitis

trendsetter37

The Living Force
I am in a bit a quandary here and it looks like we may have to put one of our cats down soon...

I'm not sure of how to proceed. It appears as though one of our male cats has been battling with FIC or bladder inflammation for awhile now. He is around 3 or 4 years old and was a bit over weight with an accompanying skin condition.

We changed his diet around August of last year; cutting out all kibbles or processed food and switched to cooked meat and broth, as well as raw chicken legs and salmon. Probably six months later his weight had gone down dramatically and he was able to clean himself as well as play around. Despite all of these improvements from an observational perspective, A few months ago he became very immobile and depressed looking. His skin condition also worsened so we took him to the vet.

The veterinarian noticed that his bladder was the size of a grape fruit (or so she said) and that he was blocked. They determined that he had phosphate crystals (urine had a high ph) and traces of blood in his urine. The blood, at the time was not perceptible to the eye.

They unblocked him immediately and gave us advice on putting him on a special diet just for cats that are prone to phosphate crystals. This was suppose to prevent future occurrences. However after looking into what was in the canned food a bit closer and looking some stuff up on the web it turns out that there is nothing in there that we weren't giving him and further, there was ingredients or the same constituents that promote phosphate crystals.

Other literature on the topic also noted that the SD Diet for cats tended to prevent phosphate crystals but promoted calcium oxalate (kidney stone-esque) in the bladder and kidneys. This allegedly happens because the sd diet pushes their urinary systems pH to the opposite end of the spectrum. Thus resulting in stones of another kind.

So I guess I said that to say we have been dealing with this for a few months now. When he was unblocked his skin cleared up almost immediately and he was happy and running around. Even up to this day! However, as of a couple days ago we are seeing blood (it almost looks like all blood at this point) in his urine and around the house. The only confusing thing is that he is not sad or mopey like he was before when he was blocked.

Blood in the urine also seems to be a symptom of the same problem cropping up again. And judging from other peoples account some suggest that male neutered cats that are prone to FIC are sometimes better off being put down rather than suffering through this condition as this disease isn't fully understood enough to provide a full-proof treatment.

Right now we are contemplating putting him down. But I am torn...I do not want him to suffer and I understand that I would want to do what is right for him. Also keeping in mind that the last "operation"/trip to the vet was really expensive and we cannot do that perceptually at this point in time. In contrast though, even though we are seeing blood in his urine now and in different places in our apartment; he doesn't seem to be showing the same signs of distress like he did earlier. So I don't want to rush off and put elliot, my friend, to sleep if it is not something that is causing him much suffering.

This news makes me a bit sad. Out of our four animals he has been the one that picked me out of other people in my family to attach to and follow around constantly. He's my buddy! He even comes when I call too him which is pretty cool with cats anyways.

Do any of you guys have experience with this condition and / or advice? Forgive me if this comes off as a rant.

Pictures of him this morning. He looks relaxed and content despite leaving small patches of blood around the house for us to find.

Here is a picture of him this morning.
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Just hanging out and showing his belly :)

which I thought was a sign that they are relaxed and trusting of their environment in this position. He didn't do this when he was really sick earlier this year.
 

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Are you adding enough moisture to his meals? Although you cut out dry food you must be missing something. Cystitis is definitely the disease caused by inappropriate diet so you need to examine this further. OSIT

Regarding diet and all the contributing factors you can find a lot of useful information here
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

I would add 500 mg of Vit C daily - in powder form to his food to lower the pH of urine and would also give him one dose of homeopathic Belladona ( BEL 30c), Good luck.
 
Z said:
Are you adding enough moisture to his meals? Although you cut out dry food you must be missing something. Cystitis is definitely the disease caused by inappropriate diet so you need to examine this further. OSIT

Regarding diet and all the contributing factors you can find a lot of useful information here
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth

I would add 500 mg of Vit C daily - in powder form to his food to lower the pH of urine and would also give him one dose of homeopathic Belladona ( BEL 30c), Good luck.

Ok thanks Z. Yes we started adding a lot of water to his food a month or so ago. "A lot" may be a relative term but I will say that sometimes it looks as though he is eating soup. He loves it though, or at least licks his bowl dry. I did see where not having adequate water with food could lead to their urine becoming more concentrated ergo promoting crystals to form etc. I don't know though.

Our other vets were in agreement with your comment above. So their maybe something we are missing at this point although it seems like we have researched this out of the wazoo and have made many, improvements seemingly, to what we've fed him over the past year.

I will also try the Vit C and belladona and see if that helps. Thanks again!

Edit: Whoa! think this may be the issue. Fish.

From your link _http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth
Note that fish tends to be high in phosphorus because fish comes with its own bones so stay away from fish.

We feed them salmon on a very regular basis as a fall-back. Preparation is simpler. But according to what i'm reading in that link it is very detrimental to cats as fish are high in phosphorus content. Which is specifically the type of crystals he is having trouble with. Ok I guess I have a bit more to go off of now. Once again Thank you.
 
Thanks for sharing, Trendsetter.

As you have mentioned,

trendsetter37 said:
So I don't want to rush off and put elliot, my friend, to sleep if it is not something that is causing him much suffering.

If you see that Elliot doesn't suffer at the moment, there is probably no need to rush. I would consult other vets also if I were you. Doctors can be deadly wrong sometimes.

I also had to part with two of our cats last year: we adopted them (they were homeless) many years ago, but last year one our family members got a severe allergy, so we had to give both our cats away to other people. Both cats are okay now, but we miss them a lot. Their health is not perfect also (homeless animals usually have problems), but we finally adapted appropriate (different) diets for both cats, so they are both quite happy now.

I wish you good luck with Elliot, he is so handsome! :)
 
trendsetter37 said:
We feed them salmon on a very regular basis as a fall-back. Preparation is simpler. But according to what i'm reading in that link it is very detrimental to cats as fish are high in phosphorus content. Which is specifically the type of crystals he is having trouble with. Ok I guess I have a bit more to go off of now. Once again Thank you.

Although most cats like fish in nature they rarely eat them, most of the cats with exception of one South Asian species will avoid water at any cost if they can help it and its very unlikely they would ever catch a fish in nature, unless they are really adventurous. Their species appropriate diet is whole prey i.e small rodents and birds. Therefore focus on chicken and rabbit grinded with bones and skin, and dont forget to add Taurine. Always Raw.
 
Got it. Went home on lunch break to check and administer the vitamin C with water and some chicken liver; All swimming in water. He ate it all. And used the litter box right after. I am glad he's not blocked like before. His urine had some blood in it but i'll continue with the C and track down some of the belladona (for pain right)?
Siberia said:
Thanks for sharing, Trendsetter.

As you have mentioned,

trendsetter37 said:
So I don't want to rush off and put elliot, my friend, to sleep if it is not something that is causing him much suffering.

If you see that Elliot doesn't suffer at the moment, there is probably no need to rush. I would consult other vets also if I were you. Doctors can be deadly wrong sometimes.

I also had to part with two of our cats last year: we adopted them (they were homeless) many years ago, but last year one our family members got a severe allergy, so we had to give both our cats away to other people. Both cats are okay now, but we miss them a lot. Their health is not perfect also (homeless animals usually have problems), but we finally adapted appropriate (different) diets for both cats, so they are both quite happy now.

I wish you good luck with Elliot, he is so handsome! :)

Thanks siberia! He was homeless kitten too. Wandered up on our doorstep severely emaciated a few years ago.
 
Z said:
Although most cats like fish in nature they rarely eat them, most of the cats with exception of one South Asian species will avoid water at any cost if they can help it and its very unlikely they would ever catch a fish in nature, unless they are really adventurous. Their species appropriate diet is whole prey i.e small rodents and birds.

I agree. Though I used to feed my cats on fish sometimes, this was rare. Fish is not very natural for them. As far as I know, rabbit, turkey and veal are good for digestion. Chicken is also ok. My cats also liked beef kidneys a lot, but this is very individual, I guess.

trendsetter37 said:
Thanks siberia! He was homeless kitten too. Wandered up on our doorstep severely emaciated a few years ago.

The same happened with one of our cats: we found her nextdoor, she was extremely skinny, and it was Siberian winter (about 30 C below zero). She used to eat almost nonstop afterwards, probably due to her fear of hunger. Now she is quite fatty :D. We even had to hide food to control her weight.

Our second cat was more lucky, we found her in a fairly good condition, only her eye and nostril were constantly running (she probably froze her naso-lacrimal canal), so she isn't food addict.
 
trendsetter37 said:
Got it. Went home on lunch break to check and administer the vitamin C with water and some chicken liver; All swimming in water. He ate it all. And used the litter box right after. I am glad he's not blocked like before. His urine had some blood in it but i'll continue with the C and track down some of the belladona (for pain right)?
no not for pain - belladona is used to counteract the cystitis


Siberia if you wish to feed species appropriate diet to a cat beef should be avoided
 
Z said:
Siberia if you wish to feed species appropriate diet to a cat beef should be avoided

I partly agree with you that maybe beef is not the best choice since my cats refuse eating the meat, but they adore kidneys.

I tried to find something reputable on the subject, but I couldn't. Mostly the forums. I also found this article, whether it's credible or not I don't know (Myths about row feeding):

So how does one feed a cat a raw diet? Cats can eat the same raw foods a dog can eat, just in smaller portions and always fresh. They can eat game hens, chicken, quail, lamb, beef, pork, turkey, duck, fish, goat, venison, rabbit, mice, rats, eggs, and various organ meats. As with feeding dogs, you should try and re-create the whole prey your cat would be eating in the wild. If your cat is an avid hunter, then you may only just be supplementing with raw food occasionally. Some cats do not eat meat from animals that typically are not their prey, which may rule out beef, lamb, venison, and the like. However, this does not mean these meats should not be tried. On the contrary—some cats 'change their minds' about certain meats once they start eating fresh raw food. The trick is to keep offering it in various ways, even if that means mincing some of the beef in with some fish. Plus, since beef liver and beef heart (and kidney) are excellent sources of nutrients, I feel it is important that the cat learn to eat this. My own cat ate organs from cows before she would actually eat the meat from cows.

http://rawfed.com/myths/cats.html.

By the way, both of my cats would never-ever even have a look at chicken, even if very hungry. I don't know why. I just trusted their intuition and fed them what they liked and what was well-digested by them :).

Can you please provide any links about beef? Do you mean that beef is akin to fish and is not a traditional food for them in the wild nature? Or is there something specific about beef?

Maybe our Siberian cats are more accustomed to it anyway? ;)
 
Z said:
Siberia if you wish to feed species appropriate diet to a cat beef should be avoided

This is news to me. I feed my cat a mixture of turkey and beef (there is a small amount if sweet potato and kale in the Whole Foods brand. I know that's a no-no but ran out of US wellness pet burger) though I have thought of tweaking the recipe lately. According to what you're saying even the pet burger wouldn't be the best choice. Any more information you can provide would be most helpful.

Oh, and you were right about 'Lil Chico adjusting to the new environment. It took him about three weeks to start getting comfortable. Now he comes out regularly and hangs around.
 
well I think in the long run it would be cheaper to prepare your own cat food, this is really not a big deal and you only need to invest in a good meat grinder ( that can grind soft bones). Most of raw feeders make weekly batches of daily portions that can be frozen, it takes about one hour. The idea is to feed what wild cats eat in nature and nothing else. the problem with vegetables is that they are carbs and being strict carnivores any excess of more then 2 % carbs can have cumulative consequences on cat's health. I suppose a little beef is way better then processed food, but still why not stick to the type of meat cats have evolved to eat.
You can find in depth information on www.catinfo.org

there is summary here along with the video on making cat food at your home http://www.vetmalta.com/natural-diet/the-complete-diet-for-cats
 
Siberia said:
By the way, both of my cats would never-ever even have a look at chicken, even if very hungry. I don't know why. I just trusted their intuition and fed them what they liked and what was well-digested by them :).

Don't know if you have the same problem where you live, but here in Belarus vets sometimes need to treat pets that got allergies from eating chicken meat. Contrary to cattle, there are no restrictions with chickens here when it comes to using antibiotics, so they are being routinely treated en mass. So maybe your cats can sense it in the meat. Maybe try chickens from a different source, if it's possible. Chicken throats are particularly good and cheap, since it also helps to keep the teeth clean. fwiw.
 
Keit said:
Siberia said:
By the way, both of my cats would never-ever even have a look at chicken, even if very hungry. I don't know why. I just trusted their intuition and fed them what they liked and what was well-digested by them :).

Don't know if you have the same problem where you live, but here in Belarus vets sometimes need to treat pets that got allergies from eating chicken meat. Contrary to cattle, there are no restrictions with chickens here when it comes to using antibiotics, so they are being routinely treated en mass. So maybe your cats can sense it in the meat. Maybe try chickens from a different source, if it's possible. Chicken throats are particularly good and cheap, since it also helps to keep the teeth clean. fwiw.

Thanks, Keit. I think we have this problem too (antibiotics). This is why I always remove chiken skin and avoid using legs because, as far as I know, the hazardous substances are accumulated there primarily.

I also avoid buying suspiciously big and fatty chickens because this can also be indicative of growth hormones usage.

Thanks for the advice about throats, I didn't know that :).

Z said:
well I think in the long run it would be cheaper to prepare your own cat food, this is really not a big deal and you only need to invest in a good meat grinder ( that can grind soft bones). Most of raw feeders make weekly batches of daily portions that can be frozen, it takes about one hour. The idea is to feed what wild cats eat in nature and nothing else. the problem with vegetables is that they are carbs and being strict carnivores any excess of more then 2 % carbs can have cumulative consequences on cat's health. I suppose a little beef is way better then processed food, but still why not stick to the type of meat cats have evolved to eat.
You can find in depth information on www.catinfo.org

there is summary here along with the video on making cat food at your home http://www.vetmalta.com/natural-diet/the-complete-diet-for-cats

Thanks for the links and for the advice, Z! It is very interesting and valuable. I will learn :)
 
Just wanted to give an update on Elliot. He is doing MUCH better. We didn't have a chance to get the belladonna but after we started giving him high doses of vitamin C, as well as cutting out the salmon, we noticed that his bloody urine episodes subsided within a day; Returning to normal fairly soon afterwards.

Thank you again. This has definitely been a learning experience!
 
trendsetter37 said:
Just wanted to give an update on Elliot. He is doing MUCH better. We didn't have a chance to get the belladonna but after we started giving him high doses of vitamin C, as well as cutting out the salmon, we noticed that his bloody urine episodes subsided within a day; Returning to normal fairly soon afterwards.

Thank you again. This has definitely been a learning experience!

So glad to hear this!! Thanks, trendsetter37.
 
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