4th Density through devotion?

Ares

Jedi Master
Hello,

I was just wondering about something. While I totally agree with the viewpoint that once must have all of ones reasoning faculties 'switched on' in our search for truth, I am taken back to stories I read of (great?) saints who supposedly achieved enlightenment through the power of devotion alone. I have heard of a few such people, an example being the 19th century priest Sri Ramakrishna from Calcutta who was, for lack of a better word, fanatically devoted to the goddess of the temple, kali and achived 'enlightenment' that way. There are numerous examples in history, and mythology (I'm not an expert on that, anyone care to expand?), but nothing comes to mind at the moment. There are many saints in other religions who are said to have reached 'god' through their devotion to whomever they prayed to. Do you think they sort of 'graduated' to 4th density, or went even higher?

As some of you are familiar, hindu philosphy teaches of 4 major ways of achieving liberation - Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Gyana yoga, Raja Yoga, ( The way of action, devotion, knowledge etc.). So it seems we are following the path of knowledge whereas these people followed other ways. The ancient (east) Indians seemed to have a very intricate and detailed system of achieving liberation, based on the type of person you were. Bhakti yoga, or the path to god through devotion, was one of the ways.

What are the editors opinions of whether these other ways are relevant today? It would seem the it would be much easier for the PTB to influence people who are more inclined to devotion and love than to people who question everything. And that it what seems to be happening at the moment.

If anyone would like to add or counter something, please feel free to do so.




somes yoga links:
http://yoga.iloveindia.com/yoga-types/index.html
http://www.rainbowbody.net/HeartMind/Introyogas.htm
 
Picture a man who decides to 'build' his body. He realizes his chest needs the most work, so he sets to work doing bench presses, push-ups, and numerous other exercises. What does he end up with? A huge chest and shoulders, and tiny, spindly legs. Now, his chest may be great and beautiful (just like saints and mystics may connect with something meaningful), but he is unbalanced. The 'saint' or 'priest' is more a caricature than a "highly developed soul." He can still DO nothing in the world, except convince himself and others that there is really nothing to do.
 
I am not an editor but since you welcomed other thoughts here are mine...

I certainly cannot answer to your question about ascension through devotion as rather then the knowledge I only have a feeling and my feeling is - something is not right there

I know that yoga basicaly stands for religion and only yoga I respect is hatha yoga , I still practice it regularly and am convinced of its benefits to ones body, mind and soul.
I also beleive that human being which has been given this tree most beautiful gifts - body, mind, and soul has to do everything to enhance every single one of them in order to complete 3D cycle.

Hatha yoga is pretty much everything I absorbt from hinduism as when it comes to some other aspects of hinduism there is too many contradictions.
When contemplating hinduism the major question that would always pop into my mind is
-If this religion is so close to the Source how could it produce such a wrong society system. For me the caste system of India is one of the worst social inventions human beings ever came up with and if I am not mistaken it is mentioned somwhere that Castes of india are very much corresponding with reptilian social structures.

Apart from India human hystory all over the world is full of stories about achieving ascension through the devotion.These stories are always shrouded with ample amount of mistery. For me that is always a bad sign.

In short something tells me this is the spiritual cul de sack created to distract us from valid path.
But as I said this is more of a feeling than proper knowledge
 
hkoehli said:
Picture a man who decides to 'build' his body. He realizes his chest needs the most work, so he sets to work doing bench presses, push-ups, and numerous other exercises. What does he end up with? A huge chest and shoulders, and tiny, spindly legs. Now, his chest may be great and beautiful (just like saints and mystics may connect with something meaningful), but he is unbalanced. The 'saint' or 'priest' is more a caricature than a "highly developed soul." He can still DO nothing in the world, except convince himself and others that there is really nothing to do.
I cant agree more :)
 
hi hk, interesting analogy you got there. well I work out a bit, and I do see too many people with huge chests and chicken legs! (oh yes, and i noticed the rhyming too, beautiful :p) but humor aside, is there something you are basing that analogy upon when you describe the mystics? why do you say these people are unbalanced? what faculty of their self have they developed to the exclusion (and possible detriment) of others? Are you are referring to the garden variety mystic, or the famous saints like buddha, or are they all the same in your book? Oh and another interesting thing, what do you think these gurus 'connect' to? I have read that they are able to release their kundalini or 'serpent' energy and are able to access states of bliss at will. As a side note, there is a very interesting autobiography of a common working man, who somehow was able to trigger his kundalini energy and suffered tremendously beacause he was not 'ready' for it.

Sorry if I seem to be asking too many questions, I guess I am too curious!
 
Hi deckard, thanks for your thoughts! well talking about hinduism is quite beyond the scope of this little thread, and totally beyond me! However I shall try to reply with whatever I know about it.

As far as I have read, the yoga system (and its many ways) are a way to achieve liberation, and hatha yoga is one among them. The other yoga systems claim to be equally effective, depending on your personal nature. Oh and I agree with your about the vices of the caste system, they are there for all to see. However could it be possible that this system is the corrupted remains of some other that was based on some positive principle? I am thinking here of the difference between OP's and Souled humans. Maybe something that was started with a positive intent in mind was taken over by STS forced and used against the very people whom it was designed to benefit (as usual eh). Ofcourse this is just speculation on my part, and it could have been a negative system from the start.

EDIT: It may be that these other 'methods' or graduating to the next density were more releavant in ancient those times. But then, what would be different then to now? The same STS guys were reigning then, as they are now. Or maybe it was more than 309,000 years ago? If you know about the concept of the yuga's or yug system, where each yug is supposed to be hundreds of thousands of years and gets destroyed at the end of it by fire or water or something, it is possible that these methods, including the way of devotion were more suited to a time before the STS managed a hold on our 3D planet. hmmm hows that for a thought???

I am surprised there is not much discussion of other philosphies such as ancient indian or chinese. Or maybe I havent searched enough. They could offer interesting points of view when compared to the C's material.
 
Ares said:
Maybe something that was started with a positive intent in mind was taken over by STS forced and used against the very people whom it was designed to benefit (as usual eh). Ofcourse this is just speculation on my part, and it could have been a negative system from the start.
speculation is good, thats why we come to this forum :)

interesting thought, never thought of it that way
but the way I understand it - souled beings were never supposed to have any knowledge of OPs, it was the part of the trap they fallen into,
but then I might have understood it wrong
 
Ares said:
I have read that they are able to release their kundalini or 'serpent' energy and are able to access states of bliss at will.
Well maybe that's the problem - they are after states of bliss. This group is after knowledge, even if it hurts (a lot of times, as you probably know, it hurts a lot). Totally different aim there.

It seems there are maybe 4 ways. Gurdjieff 4th way is just one. The other 3 work on 3 different aspects - physical, mental, emotional. The 4th works on all 3 of them together. But if the previous 3 are still called "ways", maybe this means that they also are legitimate ways to achieve the seating of the magnetic center. It probably takes a lot longer and the chances of success are less.

Also, if 4th density is a higher level of awareness, it just seems natural that knowledge would be the thing to get you there? I mean, doesn't increased knowledge lead to increased awareness? Of course, knowledge is no good if it is not applied. The C's say we need to learn all our 3d lessons. But how does seating a magnetic center fit into that? Is that, in fact, one of the lessons, or is this a separate requirement together with learning all our lessons? Another requirement, perhaps, is increasing our polarity towards either STO or STS, and being aware of existance of STO/STS of course. Again, does this fit into "learning our 3d lessons", or is this separate? I think probably the magnetic center and polarity increase are both part of the lessons. Although they said that we don't really have to know anything about hyperdimensional realities or 4th density itself to get there (like if you're in 3rd grade you don't need to know 4th grade material to get there).
 
What you're describing is the way of the monk. I was trying to find an appropriate description via scroogle.org but alas could not. As such you'll have to do with mine:

The way of the monk is the cultivation of the emotional center, through devotion and a meager lifestyle in which one's faith occupies the totality of their daily existence. I agree with harrison, as he describes the affects of such a way, and how it allows only the development of one center. We require all three to be developed and working harmoniously under the supervision of a magnetic center in order to work on getting to 4D.
 
interesting views there. What do you guys think about what I said earlier:

'DIT: It may be that these other 'methods' of graduating to the next density were more releavant in those ancient times. But then, what would be different then to now? The same STS guys were reigning then, as they are now. Or maybe it was more than 309,000 years ago? If you know about the concept of the yuga's or yug system, where each yug is supposed to be hundreds of thousands of years and gets destroyed at the end of it by fire or water or something, it is possible that these methods, including the way of devotion (or monk) were more suited to a time before the STS managed a hold on our 3D planet. hmmm hows that for a thought???'
 
I'm guessing that you haven't read "In Search of the Miraculous" or many (any?) of the articles on SOTT and linked sites...

That being the case, allow me to quote from a section of ISOTM concerning the 4 ways.

At the next meeting G. began where he had left off the time before. "I said last time,"
he said, "that immortality is not a property with which man is born. But man can
acquire immortality. All existing and generally known ways to immortality can be
divided into three categories:

1. The way of the fakir.
2. The way of the monk.
3. The way of the yogi.

"The way of the fakir is the way of struggle with the physical body, the way of work on the first room. This is a long, difficult, and uncertain way. The fakir strives to develop physical will, power over the body. This is attained by means of terrible sufferings, by torturing the body. The whole way of the fakir consists of various incredibly difficult physical exercises. The fakir either stands motionless in the same position for hours, days, months, or years; or sits with outstretched arms on a bare stone in sun, rain, and snow; or tortures himself with fire, puts his legs into an ant-heap, and so on. If he does not fall ill and die before what may be called physical will is developed in him, then he attains the fourth room or the possibility of forming the fourth body. But his other functions - emotional, intellectual, and so forth-remain undeveloped. He has acquired will but he has nothing to which he can apply it, he cannot make use of it for gaining knowledge or for self-perfection. As a rule he is too old to begin new work.

"But where there are schools of fakirs there are also schools of yogis. Yogis generally keep an eye on fakirs. If a fakir attains what he has aspired to before he is too old, they take him into a yogi school, where first they heal him and restore his power of movement, and then begin to teach him. A fakir has to learn to walk and to speak like a baby. But he now possesses a will which has overcome incredible difficulties on his way and this will may help him to overcome the difficulties on the second part of the way, the difficulties, namely, of developing the intellectual and emotional functions.

"You cannot imagine what hardships fakirs undergo. I do not know whether you have seen real fakirs or not. I have seen many; for instance, I saw one in the inner court of a temple in India and I even slept near him. Day and night for twenty years he had been standing on the tips of his fingers and toes. He was no longer able to straighten himself. His pupils carried him from one place to another, took him to the river and washed him like some inanimate object. But this was not attained all at once. Think what he had to overcome, what tortures he must have suffered in order to get to that stage.

"And a man becomes a fakir not because he understands the possibilities and the results of this way, and not because of religious feeling. In all Eastern countries where fakirs exist there is a custom among the common people of promising to give to fakirs a child born after some happy event. Besides this, fakirs often adopt orphans, or simply buy little children from poor parents. These children become their pupils and imitate them, or are made to imitate them, some only outwardly, but some afterwards become fakirs themselves.

"In addition to these, other people become fakirs simply from being struck by some fakir they have seen. Near every fakir in the temples people can be seen who imitate him, who sit or stand in the same posture. Not for long of course, but still occasionally for several hours. And sometimes it happens that a man who went into the temple accidentally on a feast day, and began to imitate some fakir who particularly struck him, does not return home any more but joins the crowd of that fakir's disciples and later, in the course of time, becomes a fakir himself. You must understand that I take the word 'fakir' in quotation marks. In Persia fakir simply means a beggar; and in India a great many jugglers call themselves fakirs. And Europeans, particularly learned Europeans, very often give the name of fakir to yogis, as well as to monks of various wandering orders.

"But in reality the way of the fakir, the way of the monk, and the way of the yogi are entirely different. So far I have spoken of fakirs. This is the first way.

"The second way is the way of the monk. This is the way of faith, the way of religious feeling, religious sacrifice. Only a man with very strong religious emotions and a very strong religious imagination can become a 'monk' in the true sense of the word. The way of the monk also is very long and hard. A monk spends years and tens of years struggling with himself, but all his work is concentrated on the second room, on the second body, that is, on feelings. Subjecting all his other emotions to one emotion, that is, to faith, he develops unity in himself, will over the emotions, and in this way reaches the fourth room. But his physical body and his thinking capacities may remain undeveloped. In order to be able to make use of what he has attained, he must develop his body and his capacity to think. This can only be achieved by means of fresh sacrifices, fresh hardships, fresh renunciations. A monk has to become a yogi and a fakir. Very few get as far as this; even fewer overcome all difficulties. Most of them either die before this or become monks in outward appearance only.

"The third way is the way of the yogi. This is the way of knowledge, the way of mind. The way of the yogi consists in working on the third room and in striving to enter the fourth room by means of knowledge. The yogi reaches the fourth room by developing his mind, but his body and emotions remain undeveloped and, like the fakir and the monk, he is unable to make use of the results of his attainment. He knows everything but can do nothing. In order to begin to do he must gain the mastery over his body and emotions, that is, over the first and second rooms. To do this he must again set to work and again obtain results by means of prolonged efforts. In this case however he has the advantage of understanding his position, of knowing what he lacks, what he must do, and in what direction he must go. But, as on the way of the fakir or the monk, very few acquire this understanding on the way of the yogi, that is, that level in his work on which a man knows where he is going. A great many stop at one particular achievement and go no further.

"The ways also differ from each other by their relation to the teacher or leader.

"On the way of the fakir a man has no teacher in the true sense of the word. The teacher in this case does not teach but simply serves as an example. The pupil's work consists in imitating the teacher.

"On the way of the monk a man has a teacher, and a part of his duty, a part of his work, consists in having absolute faith in the teacher, in submitting to him absolutely, in obedience. But the chief thing on the way of the monk is faith in God, in the love of God, in constant efforts to obey and serve God, although, in his understanding of the idea of God and of serving God, there may be much that is subjective and contradictory.

"On the way of the yogi a man can do nothing, and must do nothing, without a teacher. In the beginning he must imitate his teacher like the fakir and believe in him like the monk. But, afterwards, a man on the way of the yogi gradually becomes his own teacher. He learns his teacher's methods and gradually learns to apply them to himself.

"But all the ways, the way of the fakir as well as the way of the monk and the way of the yogi, have one thing in common. They all begin with the most difficult thing, with a complete change of life, with a renunciation of all worldly things. A man must give up his home, his family if he has one, renounce all the pleasures, attachments, and duties of life, and go out into the desert, or into a monastery or a yogi school. From the very first day, from the very first step on his way, he must die to the world; only thus can he hope to attain anything on one of these ways.

"In order to grasp the essence of this teaching it is necessary clearly to understand the idea that the ways are the only possible methods for the development of man's hidden possibilities. This in turn shows how difficult and rare such development is. The development of these possibilities is not a law. The law for man is existence in the circle of mechanical influences, the state of 'man-machine.' The way of the development of hidden possibilities is a way against nature, against God. This explains the difficulties and the exclusiveness of the ways. The ways are narrow and strait. But at the same time only by them can anything be attained. In the general mass of everyday life, especially modern life, the ways are a small, quite imperceptible phenomenon which, from the point of view of life, need not exist at all. But this small phenomenon contains in itself all that man has for the development of his hidden possibilities. The ways are opposed to everyday life, based upon other principles and subject to other laws. In this consists their power and their significance. In everyday life, even in a life filled with scientific, philosophical, religious, or social interests, there is nothing, and there can be nothing, which could give the possibilities which are contained in the ways. The ways lead, or should lead, man to immortality. Everyday life, even at its best, leads man to death and can lead to nothing eke. The idea of the ways cannot be understood if the possibility of man's evolution without their help is admitted.

"As a rule it is hard for man to reconcile himself to this thought; it seems to him exaggerated, unjust, and absurd. He has a poor understanding of the meaning of the word 'possibility.' He fancies that if he has any possibilities in himself they must be developed and that there must be means for their development in his environment. From a total refusal to acknowledge in himself any possibilities whatever, man generally proceeds forthwith to demand the imperative and inevitable development of these possibilities. It is difficult for him to accept the thought that his possibilities may remain altogether undeveloped and disappear, and that their development, on the other hand, requires of him tremendous effort and endurance. As a matter of fact, if we take all the people who are neither fakirs, monks, nor yogis, and of whom we may say with confidence that they never will be either fakirs, monks, or yogis, then we may say with undoubted certainty that their possibilities cannot be developed and will not be developed. This must be clearly understood in order to grasp all that follows.

"In the ordinary conditions of cultured life the position of a man, even of an intelligent man, who is seeking for knowledge is hopeless, because, in the circumstances surrounding him, there is nothing resembling either fakir or yogi schools, while the religions of the West have degenerated to such an extent that for a long time there has been nothing alive in them. Various occult and mystical societies and naive experiments in the nature of spiritualism, and so on, can give no results whatever.

"And the position would indeed be hopeless if the possibility of yet a fourth way did not exist.

"The fourth way requires no retirement into the desert, does not require a man to give up and renounce everything by which he formerly lived. The fourth way begins much further on than the way of the yogi. This means that a man must be prepared for the fourth way and this preparation must be acquired in ordinary life and be a very serious one, embracing many different sides. Furthermore a man must be living in conditions favorable for work on the fourth way, or, in any case, in conditions which do not render it impossible. It must be understood that both in the inner and in the external life of a man there may be conditions which create insuperable barriers to the fourth way. Furthermore, the fourth way has no definite forms like the ways of the fakir, the monk, and the yogi. And, first of all, it has to be found. This is the first test. It is not as well known as the three traditional ways. There are many people who have never heard of the fourth way and there are others who deny its existence or possibility.

"At the same time the beginning of the fourth way is easier than the beginning of the ways of the fakir, the monk, and the yogi. On the fourth way it is possible to work and to follow this way while remaining in the usual conditions of life, continuing to do the usual work, preserving former relations with people, and without renouncing or giving up anything. On the contrary, the conditions of life in which a man is placed at the beginning of his work, in which, so to speak, the work finds him, are the best possible for him, at any rate at the beginning of the work. These conditions are natural for him. These conditions are the man himself because a man's life and its conditions correspond to what he is. Any conditions different from those created by life would be artificial for a man and in such artificial conditions the work would not be able to touch every side of his being at once.

"Thanks to this, the fourth way affects simultaneously every side of man's being. It is work ore the three rooms at once. The fakir works on the first room, the monk on the second, the yogi on the third. In reaching the fourth room the fakir, the monk, and the yogi leave behind them many things unfinished, and they cannot make use of what they have attained because they are not masters of all their functions. The fakir is master of his body but not of his emotions or his mind; the monk is master of his emotions but not of his body or his mind; the yogi is master of his mind but not of his body or his emotions.

"Then the fourth way differs from the other ways in that the principal demand made upon a man is the demand for understanding. A man must do nothing that he does not understand, except as an experiment under the supervision and direction of his teacher. The more a man understands what he is doing, the greater will be the results of his efforts. This is a fundamental principle of the fourth way. The results of work are in proportion to the consciousness of the work. No 'faith' is required on the fourth way; on the contrary, faith of any kind is opposed to the fourth way. On the fourth way a man must satisfy himself of the truth of what he is told. And until he is satisfied he must do nothing.

"The method of the fourth way consists in doing something in one room and simultaneously doing something corresponding to it in the two other rooms-that is to say, while working on the physical body to work simultaneously on the mind and the emotions; while working on the mind to work on the physical body and the emotions; while working on the emotions to work on the mind and the physical body. This can be achieved thanks to the fact that on the fourth way it is possible to make use of certain knowledge inaccessible to the ways of the fakir, the monk, and the yogi. This knowledge makes it possible to work in three directions simultaneously. A whole parallel series of physical, mental, and emotional exercises serves this purpose. In addition, on the fourth way it is possible to individualize the work of each separate person, that is to say, each person can do only what is necessary and not what is useless for him. This is due to the fact that the fourth way dispenses with a great deal of what is superfluous and preserved simply through tradition in the other ways.

"So that when a man attains will on the fourth way he can make use of it because he has acquired control of all his bodily, emotional, and intellectual functions. And besides, he has saved a great deal of time by working on the three sides of his being in parallel and simultaneously.

"The fourth way is sometimes called the way of the sly man. The 'sly man' knows some secret which the fakir, monk, and yogi do not know. How the 'sly man' learned this secret-it is not known. Perhaps he found it in some old books, perhaps he inherited it, perhaps he bought it, perhaps he stole it from someone. It makes no difference. The 'sly man' knows the secret and with its help outstrips the fakir, the monk, and the yogi.

"Of the four, the fakir acts in the crudest manner; he knows very little and understands very little. Let us suppose that by a whole month of intense torture he develops in himself a certain energy, a certain substance which produces certain changes in him. He does it absolutely blindly, with his eyes shut, knowing neither aim, methods, nor results, simply in imitation of others.

"The monk knows what he wants a little better; he is guided by religious feeling, by religious tradition, by a desire for achievement, for salvation; he trusts his teacher who tells him what to do, and he believes that his efforts and sacrifices are 'pleasing to God.' Let us suppose that a week of fasting, continual prayer, privations, and so on, enables him to attain what the fakir develops in himself by a month of self-torture.

"The yogi knows considerably more. He knows what he wants, he knows why he wants it, he knows how it can be acquired. He knows, for instance, that it is necessary for his purpose to produce a certain substance in himself. He knows that this substance can be produced in one day by a certain kind of mental exercises or concentration of consciousness. So he keeps his attention on these exercises for a whole day without allowing himself a single outside thought, and he obtains what he needs. In this way a yogi spends on the same thing only one day compared with a month spent by the fakir and a week spent by the monk.

"But on the fourth way knowledge is still more exact and perfect. A man who follows the fourth way knows quite definitely what substances he needs for his aims and he knows that these substances can be produced within the body by a month of physical suffering, by a week of emotional strain, or by a day of mental exercises- and also, that they can be introduced into the organism from without if it is known how to do it. And so, instead of spending a whole day in exercises like the yogi, a week in prayer like the monk, or a month in self-torture like the fakir, he simply prepares and swallows a little pill which contains all the substances he wants and, in this way, without loss of time, he obtains the required results. [note here that Gurdjieff is speaking metaphorically, he is not saying that the Fourth Way is about actually "taking a pill."]

"It must be noted further,"' said G., "that in addition to these proper and legitimate ways, there are also artificial ways which give temporary results only, and wrong ways which may even give permanent results, only wrong results. On these ways a man also seeks the key to the fourth room and sometimes finds it. But what he finds in the fourth room is not yet known.

"It also happens that the door to the fourth room is opened artificially with a skeleton key. And in both these cases the room may prove to be empty." With this G. stopped.
 
To continue, with an early reference to "wrong work" and a later reference to the illusory accomplishments of yogic practices that stimulate kundalini alone:

"I AM often asked questions in connection with various texts, parables, and so on, from the Gospels," said G., on one occasion. "In my opinion the time has not yet come for us to speak about the Gospels. This requires much more knowledge. But from time to time we will take certain Gospel texts as points of departure for our discussions. This will teach you to treat them in the right way, and, above all, to realize that in the texts known to us the most essential points are usually missing.

"To begin with, let us take the well-known text about the seed which must die in order to be born. 'Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but, if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.'

"This text has many different meanings and we shall often return to it. But first of all it is necessary to know the principle contained in this text in its full measure as applied to man.

"There is a book of aphorisms which has never been published and probably never will be published. I have mentioned this book before in connection with the question of the meaning of knowledge and I quoted then one aphorism from this book.

"In relation to what we are speaking of now this book says the following:

" 'A man may be born, but in order to be born he must first die, and in order to die he must first awake.'

"In another place it says:

" 'When a man awakes he can die; when he dies he can be born.' "We must find out what this means.

" 'To awake,' 'to die,' 'to be born.' These are three successive stages. If you study the Gospels attentively you will see that references are often made to the possibility of being born, several references are made to the necessity of 'dying,' and there are very many references to the necessity of 'awakening'-'watch, for ye know not the day and hour . . .' and. so on. But these three possibilities of man, to awake or not to sleep, to die, and to be born, are not set down in connection with one another. Nevertheless this is the whole point. If a man dies without having awakened he cannot be born. If a man is born without having died he may become an 'immortal thing.' Thus the fact that he has not 'died' prevents a man from being 'born'; the fact of his not having awakened prevents him from 'dying'; and should he be born without having died he is prevented from 'being.'

"We have already spoken enough about the meaning of being 'born.' This relates to the beginning of a new growth of essence, the beginning of the formation of individuality, the beginning of the appearance of one indivisible I.

"But in order to be able to attain this or at least begin to attain it, a man must die, that is, he must free himself from a thousand petty attachments and identifications which hold him in the position in which he is. He is attached to everything in his life, attached to his imagination, attached to his stupidity, attached even to his sufferings, possibly to his sufferings more than to anything else. He must free himself from this attachment. Attachment to things, identification with things, keep alive a thousand useless I's in a man. These I's must die in order that the big I may be born. But how can they be made to die? They do not want to die. It is at this point that the possibility of awakening comes to the rescue. To awaken means to realize one's nothingness, that is to realize one's complete and absolute mechanicalness and one's complete and absolute helplessness. And it is not sufficient to realize it philosophically in words. It is necessary to realize it in clear, simple, and concrete facts, in one's own facts. When a man begins to know himself a little he will see in himself many things that are bound to horrify him.

"So long as a man is not horrified at himself he knows nothing about himself. A man has seen in himself something that horrifies him. He decides to throw it off, stop it, put an end to it. But however many efforts he makes, he feels that he cannot do this, that everything remains as it was. Here he will see his impotence, his helplessness, and his nothingness; or again, when he begins to know himself a man sees that he has nothing that is his own, that is, that all that he has regarded as his own, his views, thoughts, convictions, tastes, habits, even faults and vices, all these are not his own, but have been either formed through imitation or borrowed from somewhere ready-made. In feeling this a man may feel his nothingness. And in feeling his nothingness a man should see himself as he really is, not for a second, not for a moment, but constantly, never forgetting it.

"This continual consciousness of his nothingness and of his helplessness will eventually give a man the courage to 'die,' that is, to die, not merely mentally or in his consciousness, but to die in fact and to renounce actually and forever those aspects of himself which are either unnecessary from the point of view of his inner growth or which hinder it. These aspects are first of all his 'false I,' and then all the fantastic ideas about his 'individuality,' 'will,' 'consciousness,' 'capacity to do,' his powers, initiative, determination, and so on.

"But in order to see a thing always, one must first of all see it even if only for a second. All new powers and capacities of realization come always in one and the same way. At first they appear in the form of flashes at rare and short moments; afterwards they appear more often and last longer until, finally, after very long work they become permanent. The same thing applies to awakening. It is impossible to awaken completely all at once. One must first begin to awaken for short moments. But one must die all at once and forever after having made a certain effort, having surmounted a certain obstacle, having taken a certain decision from which there is no going back. This would be difficult, even impossible, for a man, were it not for the slow and gradual awakening which precedes it.

"But there are a thousand things which prevent a man from awakening, which keep him in the power of his dreams. In order to act consciously with the intention of awakening, it is necessary to know the nature of the forces which keep man in a state of sleep.

"First of all it must be realized that the sleep in which man exists is not normal but hypnotic sleep. Man is hypnotized and this hypnotic state is continually maintained and strengthened in him. One would think that there are forces for whom it is useful and profitable to keep man in a hypnotic state and prevent him from seeing the truth and understanding his position.

"There is an Eastern tale which speaks about a very rich magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds, nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where his sheep were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest, fell into ravines, and so on, and above all they ran away, for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and skins and this they did not like.

"At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it. Further the magician suggested to his sheep that they were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested that they were lions, to others that they were eagles, to others that they were men, and to others that they were magicians.

"And after this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end. They never ran away again but quietly awaited the time when the magician would require their flesh and skins.
"This tale is a very good illustration of man's position.

"In so-called 'occult' literature you have probably met with the expression 'Kundalini,' 'the fire of Kundalini,' or the 'serpent of Kundalini.' This expression is often used to designate some kind of strange force which is present in man and which can be awakened. But none of the known theories gives the right explanation of the force of Kundalini. Sometimes it is connected with sex, with sex energy, that is with the idea of the possibility of using sex energy for other purposes. This latter is entirely wrong because Kundalini can be in anything. And above all, Kundalini is not anything desirable or useful for man's development. It is very curious how these occultists have got hold of the word from somewhere but have completely altered its meaning and from a very dangerous and terrible thing have made something to be hoped for and to be awaited as some blessing.

"In reality Kundalini is the power of imagination, the power of fantasy, which takes the place of a real function. When a man dreams instead of acting, when his dreams take the place of reality, when a man imagines himself to be an eagle, a lion, or a magician, it is the force of Kundalini acting in him. Kundalini can act in all centers and with its help all the centers can be satisfied with the imaginary instead of the real. A sheep which considers itself a lion or a magician lives under the power of Kundalini.

"Kundalini is a force put into men in order to keep them in their present state. If men could really see their true position and could understand all the horror of it, they would be unable to remain where they are even for one second. They would begin to seek a way out and they would quickly find it, because there is a way out; but men fail to see it simply because they are hypnotized. Kundalini is the force that keeps them in a hypnotic state. 'To awaken' for man means to be 'dehypnotized.' In this lies the chief difficulty and in this also lies the guarantee of its possibility, for there is no organic reason for sleep and man can awaken.

"Theoretically he can, but practically it is almost impossible because as soon as a man awakens for a moment and opens his eyes, all the forces that caused him to fall asleep begin to act upon him with tenfold energy and he immediately falls asleep again, very often dreaming that he is awake or is awakening.

"There are certain states in ordinary sleep in which a man wants to awaken but cannot. He tells himself that he is awake but, in reality, he continues to sleep-and this can happen several times before he finally awakes. But in ordinary sleep, once he is awake, he is in a different state; in hypnotic sleep the case is otherwise; there are no objective characteristics, at any rate not at the beginning of awakening; a man cannot pinch himself in order to make sure that he is not asleep. And if, which God forbid, a man has heard anything about objective characteristics, Kundalini at once transforms it all into imagination and dreams.

"Only a man who fully realizes the difficulty of awakening can understand the necessity of long and hard work in order to awake.

"Speaking in general, what is necessary to awake a sleeping man? A good shock is necessary. But when a man is fast asleep one shock is not enough. A long period of continual shocks is needed. Consequently there must be somebody to administer these shocks. I have said before that if a man wants to awaken he must hire somebody who will keep on shaking him for a long time. But whom can he hire if everyone is asleep? A man will hire somebody to wake him up but this one also falls asleep. What is the use of such a man? And a man who. can really keep awake will probably refuse to waste his time in waking others up: he may have his own much more important work to do.

"There is also the possibility of being awakened by mechanical means. A man may be awakened by an alarm clock. But the trouble is that a man gets accustomed to the alarm clock far too quickly, he ceases to hear it. Many alarm clocks are necessary and always new ones. Otherwise a man must surround himself with alarm clocks which will prevent him sleeping. But here again there are certain difficulties. Alarm clocks must be wound up; in order to wind them up one must remember about them; in order to remember one must wake up often. But what is still worse, a man gets used to all alarm clocks and after a certain time he only sleeps the better for them.

"Therefore alarm clocks must be constantly changed, new ones must be continually invented. In the course of time this may help a man to awaken. But there is very little chance of a man doing all the work of winding up, inventing, and changing clocks all by himself, without outside help. It is much more likely that he will begin this work and that it will afterwards pass into sleep, and in sleep he will dream of inventing alarm clocks, of winding them up and changing them, and simply sleep all the sounder for it.

"Therefore, in order to awaken, a combination of efforts is needed. It is necessary that somebody should wake "the man up; it is necessary that somebody should look after the man who wakes him; it is necessary to have alarm clocks and it is also necessary continually to invent new alarm clocks.

"But in order to achieve all this and to obtain results a certain number of people must work together.

"One man can do nothing.

"Before anything else he needs help. But help cannot come to one man alone. Those who are able to help put a great value on their time. And, of course, they would prefer to help, say, twenty or thirty people who want to awake rather than one man. Moreover, as has been said earlier, one man can easily deceive himself about his awakening and take for awakening simply a new dream. If several people decide to struggle together against sleep, they will wake each other. It may often happen that twenty of them will sleep but the twenty-first will be awake and he will wake up the rest. It is exactly the same thing with alarm clocks. One man will invent one alarm clock, another man will invent another, afterwards they can make an exchange. Altogether they can be of very great help one to another, and without this help no one can attain anything.

"Therefore a man who wants to awake must look for other people who also want to awake and work together with them. This, however, is easier said than done because to start such work and to organize it requires a knowledge which an ordinary man cannot possess. The work must be organized and it must have a leader. Only then can it produce the results expected of it. Without these conditions no efforts can result in anything whatever. Men may torture themselves but these tortures will not make them awake. This is the most difficult of all for certain people to understand. By themselves and on their own initiative they may be capable of great efforts and great sacrifices. But because their first effort and their first sacrifice ought to be obedience nothing on earth will induce them to obey another. And they do not want to reconcile themselves to the thought that all their efforts and all their sacrifices are useless.

"Work must be organized. And it can be organized only by a man who knows its problems and its aims, who knows its methods; by a man who has in his time passed through such organized work himself.
 
Thanks Ares for bringing that topic. I had the same questions about mystics in mind for quite a long time. Before encountering the C's I had the thought that the mystics were the most advanced beings on earth, spiritually speaking. I know it's not true now, one more illusion wiped out (thanks the C's and this forum). As other members have just said, these saints and mystics are (most of them) unbalanced. The way of the heart alone can be a dangerous trap !
Look at those famous saints : they were most of them (I speak of catholic saints) seriously in bad health, crippled, and all their lives underwent attacks from demons (which they called the Devil... but in fact were probably 4thD STS). Ignorance endangers, love alone is not enough. They didn't have the knowledge that could protect them. And besides, they didn't want to be protected, they willingly ACCEPTED to be harrassed as a proof of their love for Jesus. Besides, what did these people do to increase the chance of ascension for humanity? Nothing. Their intentions were good, but they were manipulated and unvolontarily spread lies. They served the STS agenda, and that is so sad because they were probably pure in their intentions. They suffered for nothing (except for feeding the STS), they served the aim of a religion based on salvation through unhealthy & ignorant suffering and martyr.
St Therese of Avila - Marthe Robin : she spent most of her life (more than 30 years) lying in bed, without eating anything, underwent terrible attacks, and had stigmatas - Gemma Galgani...
These persons, I believe, were the most sincere and pure in heart. yet, they were completely fooled: they witnessed "saintly" apparitions (Christ, the Virgin, angels...) and we can suppose these were 4D manipulations.
We can notice, also, that most of these persecuted saints were women - which makes me think of Topper's piece on Stalking, which says that 4thD STS capture women with power, and use their creativity to feed and keep the STS realm/pyramid alive : http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/stalking.htm
There's the Padre Pio case - another Catholic saint. He was reported several times to have been seen at different places, at the same time (bilocation). Was this a sign of alchemical transformation ? Nonetheless, he also underwent devilish attacks.
Another one was Therese Neumann - she also spent her life without eating anything other than a consecrated host per day. She was different from the other saints mentionned, cause she was in good health and lived an active life. Yet, she spread the catholic faith (had the stigmatas too).
Alright I'm speaking of Catholics, I don't know much about Buddhist or other religions' saints - but it seems the Catholics ones are the most unhealthy ones, due to the perversion of the Catholic message and the Bible.

As for the different ways of ascending, I think I read somewhere on the C's site, that the 4th Way might be more suited now in this particular period. These 3 other ways *could* have been useful in the past, for an occasional person to ascend. But now, the transition is (?) coming, and if there's graduation, it's supposed to be done as a group, not individually. People who might have an expercience of the 3 other ways through their diverse incarnations, can now more easily apply their knowledge and experience of these ways and combine them together, and work together as a group. Though "before", the possibility to "escape" individually was possible, it doesn't seem to be the aim now. At least not if you want to "land" on a 4thD STO realm.

it is possible that these methods, including the way of devotion (or monk) were more suited to a time before the STS managed a hold on our 3D planet
just to bring some precision, according to the C's, the lizzies began to interfere with life on earth 75000 years ago...

[edit] I've seen Laura has rightly answered you about the different ways.
 
hi Laura, thanks a ton for quoting a part of that book. I confess I havent managed to read it further than the foreword, the subject needs a lot of time to think and one has to sit down for prolonged periods. Unfortunately that can get a little difficult due to work. I had read the first section on the C's site long back and your quote served as a good refresher. The second part was very interesting, because G claims that the kundalini energy is actually not as benevolent as it is made out to be. I guess I had sort of accepted the earlier 'goody goody' story on kundalini without thinking about it much. Now I'll think more deeply about what G has said. The kundalini theory says that the energy rises through all the chakras of the body until it hits the crown chakra, which is when a man attains full realization or supreme consciousness (or something). The different systems of yoga are supposed to be designed to do just this I think.

It was also interesting to read of many cases of catholic saints who believed they were achieving 'salvation'. I am reminded of one of Laura's hypnotherapy session where 'the lady' who was always with the victim, took her to the past to show her how she influenced the masses by appearing as a beautiful lady etc. what a bunch of dumb people we were! And this is because of the relative ignorance of those times I guess.

One quick question here: did the C's say that enough number (maybe majority) of people are needed to move to 4D STO or is it such that whoever is in 'sync' with the STO vibration will move there in 4D irrespective of how many people achieve the transition? I think I read the Ra material say that the majority of people currently are neither fully in the STS or STO vibration (somwhere in between), and hence are going to stay here (if they dont change) when the 'harvest' comes.
 
Ares said:
hi Laura, thanks a ton for quoting a part of that book. I confess I havent managed to read it further than the foreword, the subject needs a lot of time to think and one has to sit down for prolonged periods. Unfortunately that can get a little difficult due to work. I had read the first section on the C's site long back and your quote served as a good refresher. The second part was very interesting, because G claims that the kundalini energy is actually not as benevolent as it is made out to be. I guess I had sort of accepted the earlier 'goody goody' story on kundalini without thinking about it much. Now I'll think more deeply about what G has said. The kundalini theory says that the energy rises through all the chakras of the body until it hits the crown chakra, which is when a man attains full realization or supreme consciousness (or something). The different systems of yoga are supposed to be designed to do just this I think.
There are millions of people doing yoga every day. Where's the result? Where are those people that claim all those benefits of kundalini? It just seems like it is, as you have mentioned on page one, a state of bliss they are after, maybe "nirvana" of sorts. But higher consciousness? I wouldn't bet on it! Seriously, anyone can run around and say they achieved higher consciousness. In fact, very many people do. They come from all sorts of spiritual or religious or mystical practices. But the proof is in the pudding. Those who are asleep but pretend they are awake can only fool those who are also asleep. But those who are really waking up, and understand what it really entails, how much effort goes in it, and precisely what the objective results are upon the Being of the individual, are not fooled. And I think that's the rub, and waht Gurdjieff was saying - no on can do this alone. It is very very VERY easy to be fooled and led astray, while continuing to falsely believe you're waking up.

But the C's say that those who recognize the application, who SEE the significance of the material of this website, they are the ones who will benefit. And my question is, if many of us are not yet awake, how is it that we can recognize the true path to awakening among a huge number of false paths? In other words, how does a sleeping individual choose the right group, and how does he make sure that the group is truly THE group, and not just another false group? I for one, am absolutely certain that this group is doing exactly what needs to be done to wake up, I have absolutely no doubt about it, none. My understanding of how this probably works, is that I think maybe the sleeping person (myself) does not have to recognize the objective signs of an awake person exactly, since he doesn't know them yet until he's awake. But maybe what I and others do recognize is the approach, maybe that is that hidden knowledge that Gurdjieff talks about that a person has to have that normally people do not have. And this brings me inevitably to a mental, emotional, and spiritual bankruptcy that many experience before ever SEEing the right approach. It seems that this knowledge is something that we must acquire on our own before we can even find a "teacher" or recognize someone as a teacher, or recognize a group as a TRUE group with the true aims and direction to awakening. And it seems that this initial bankruptcy works as a powerful enough shock to allow us a glimpse of exactly what is the "wrong" approach and why, and what must be the right approach. We no longer tolerate any assumptions or belief systems or faith-based systems, we no longer tolerate subjectivity or biases, we no longer tolerate mechanicalness and all that is basically false and only keeps us asleep. It all now tastes like spoiled milk, we're just tired of it. But I think that over time it begins to start tasting good again, and so constant shocks are needed to remind us just how bitter it is, to allow us to adjust our path if we begin to drift.

It's just amazing, I'm always fascinated how one person can be totally devoted to some religion and be totally convinced that this is THE way. And yet another person can clearly see the distortion, the lie. If we're all asleep, why do some of us recognize the truth path, and others do not? Maybe the reason some of us even reach that bankruptcy is because we're at that point in the learning cycle where we simply didn't really have a choice. But how many of us have the integrity, the strength of will, to continue waking up once that first step was taken? And how many will gently drift back into sleep and be stuck at some point and unable to move forward?
 
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