Session 12 July 2014
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
domi said:
FWIW, this is what Orage allegedly said to Jessie Dwight about G's views (related by Jessie to Paul Beekman Taylor):
adamos said:
Thanks Laura ! (your words just knock me out ...)
But now, after that, I'm prepared to absorb more bitter truth
Seriously: Praying to Jesus really "keeped me alive" in this harmfull (in my opinion) World and gived to me real power to overcome my weaknesses. After I readed transctipts of previous sessions about Jesus (especially about soul replication) my faith in Jesus become stronger ( of course I stoped believie in his crucification, resurection etc. but I was really believing that Jesus "hears" ours prayes and mentaly can help us...)
So now, the only help for me is so quick as it's possible to "absorb" that Jesus is a fiction person...
At last - bitter truth is better than even sweetest lie.
Thank You Laura for opening my eyes.
You may want to search with keywords pray, Jesus and Caesar in the C's transcripts and forum. :)
I remember to have seen in the transcripts that praying is OK (even if the aim of the prayers is not always what we think it is.). You maybe could read thread in history handling the topic "was Julius Caesar the real Jesus Christ."
nicklebleu said:
Thank you nicklebleu (and others) for the interesting thoughts on the topic. Maybe this deserves its own thread?
The question of killing has also occupied my mind lately, one reason being that I'm in the process of obtaining my hunter's license which brought me into contact with the "gun world" for the first time.
Like others I think that a general "though shalt not kill" is very simplistic and actually serves the psychopathic elite, who have no problems killing on a massive scale and bailing themselves out using expensive lawyers. However, if we say that it all depends on the aim, and that sometimes killing is allowed in order to do "something good", this too brings a lot of problems - the problems of any utilitarian ethic that looks at the "net outcome" of an action to judge whether it's moral or not. As we know, this sort of thinking has been put forth to justify all kinds of cruelty, including torture, preemptive strikes, mass slaughters etc.
So when I think about it, maybe the problem with ethics as a philosophical discipline and law as a codification of ethics is the fact that it ignores the different levels of being. Meaning, it transforms morality into a purely intellectual exercise and postulates a fixed set of rules, which will always fail eventually since it doesn't take into account large chunks of reality/the details of the situation/the "law of three". So I think there cannot be real moral behavior without proper self-work, as in balancing the centers (intellect, emotion, body) and thus really getting in touch with one's conscience (or "higher being"). So I guess that, for example, even a discussion of self-defense cannot come to a satisfying conclusion: There will always be exceptions and cases where this distinction doesn't help. And so it goes with all ethical "systems". Instead, we could ask the question: Did someone act from his/her conscience, based on the best information available?
Maybe we could say then that you need a highly evolved being like JC to make far-reaching decisions that still can be considered "right". And because one cannot see beyond one's own level of being, for a group of people, you would need co-linearity based on objectivity to come to the right conclusions about specific cases within their community. All these are concepts, of course, that are fundamentally incompatible with our juridical system and fixed ethical or religious belief systems - a fact that suits the psychopaths very well.
If we are out by "479 years" as the Cs suggest, so much of recorded history is false, chronologically and by deliberate falsification and omission of facts and accidental mistakes in translation and interpretation. Is it any wonder the world is in the state it's in, with so many believing in lies! Before I began reading Laura's work I never really appreciated just how incredibly important history is. I am beginning to now.
In Comets and the Horns of Moses, Laura writes:
Perhaps by using the information pertaining to Halley's comet and other information, we can literally begin re-writing history and create a 'new world' based on Truth. But in order to obtain what knowledge is currently available, requires a lot of effort. As I understand it, for those who really want to, in order to move 'up a step' to a higher level of knowledge and understanding; means "helping others to learn and put them on the step behind you" as the Cs have said.
Btw, from what I have read about Posidonius, he reminds me so much of Laura. :)
luc said:
I think you've touched on some important points. I like the way David Ray Griffin talks about morality and values. For him, morality deals with the "ultimate concern". Everyone has values, even psychopaths, but psychopaths only value themselves. They have no conception of a wider sphere of values, things of ultimate concern. The 'good' or the 'moral' is that which aligns with the ultimate: an action, a state of affairs, that is objectively better than its alternatives, given the conditions in which an action is made, and in reference to universal, objective values. But 'better' or 'best' according to what measure? That gets back to the 'ultimate': what does the universe/cosmic mind 'want'? What is 'best' for the evolution of the universe? In other words, as Gurdjieff asked, what is the aim of existence?
I don't think utilitarianism gets to the heart of the matter. You can't just calculate relative body counts and say 100 deaths are worse than 1 death. To use Caesar as an example, we have to look at the conditions at the time, and take into account what was best, given what was possible. If Caesar had achieved his goals, it would have been good -- for Romans, for the world, for the universe: "A shining city on the hill." In that sense, his murder was a great evil.
But take a single battle. Would it have been 'better' if Caesar was killed in place of 100 of his soldiers? If his goal was to lessen killing to as great an extent as possible, then the fewer deaths the better. But his own role in the process was vital, and his own death in an early campaign would have made impossible the achievement of his vision. Caesar had more intrinsic value: As the C's said, he had "extraordinary intelligence and insight." In other words, he could receive, process, and create more true information. He had a ton of knowledge: self-consistent, interlocking information. His own Being was high-quality information: balanced, organized, consistent. He had the vision to see things as the are, to judge that state as less than ideal, to see what COULD be, and how to organize things in such a way as to be better: more aligned with the ultimate concern.
So perhaps his soldiers' value was in the selfless service to a 'good' greater than their own? As for his enemies' deaths, by fighting him, they made clear on some level their opposition to a better state of affairs on the planet. "Thou shalt not kill" is too simplistic. Imagine if Caesar had taken the completely pacificist approach. Even Gandhi thought that if someone was attacked, it was their responsibility to fight tooth and nail to protect themselves.
Maybe Caesar's vision was and is impossible. People are too fickle and self-centered to change by example. But it's important to the universe to see the world as it is and as it could be, and to do whatever possible make it a better place. If 'God' is the Cosmic Mind of the Universe, we are DCM's 'body'. It's up to us to debug the universe, to receive, process, create, and transmit information in the way we live our lives, in our social interactions, in our choices, in the legacy we leave our children. Our plans may not bear the fruit we'd like, but who knows what effect the struggle may actually have.
Just... wow! One more adjective - epic!
That lines up with the C's saying that Jesus will come back to teach after the transition.
Caesar seemed to be resigned that not much can be done in terms of avoiding certain hard lessons in the near future...
Still reeling from all the implications of this session...
It's almost like I'm not exactly in the same universe I was a week ago :)
That lines up with the C's saying that Jesus will come back to teach after the transition.
Caesar seemed to be resigned that not much can be done in terms of avoiding certain hard lessons in the near future...
Still reeling from all the implications of this session...
It's almost like I'm not exactly in the same universe I was a week ago :)
First, many thanks for a great and super-thought provoking session.
Second, with respect to the killing discussion, no one has yet raised the karmic impact of taking the body from a soul. The C's said that Caesar's actions were karmic balancing, which I understand to mean that his killings actually resolved karmic issues instead of creating them.
Very few, if any, people who kill can say with certainty that they are karmic balancing. In general, one would want to avoid having to kill to avoid the karmic implications. For example, see the soul attachments and the like that are causing problems for today's battle veterans, which I understand to be a type of karmic attachment or punishment for forcibly taking a soul's vessel.
Caesar led a very unique case of an advanced soul acting in accord with his highest self in a particular and dangerous time period where killing was a necessary part of the "mission." Basically, as another mentioned, the killing was OK because of time/place. Very dangerous to extrapolate that out to almost any other situation, especially in today's world.
Third, I'm very intrigued by the comment about "when the [prayer] packets arrive" to Caesar. As exhaustively discussed, religion today is part of the control system and may even work to be an energetic feeding ground for 4d STS. This comment about the packet arrival suggests to me more about how someone prays. My guess would be that a sincere request for help from a soul asking without anticipation would be most likely to land in Caesar's mailbox. Demands or the energetic praise demanded by religion are more likely to be routed to STS. Is that how others are seeing this comment?
Second, with respect to the killing discussion, no one has yet raised the karmic impact of taking the body from a soul. The C's said that Caesar's actions were karmic balancing, which I understand to mean that his killings actually resolved karmic issues instead of creating them.
Very few, if any, people who kill can say with certainty that they are karmic balancing. In general, one would want to avoid having to kill to avoid the karmic implications. For example, see the soul attachments and the like that are causing problems for today's battle veterans, which I understand to be a type of karmic attachment or punishment for forcibly taking a soul's vessel.
Caesar led a very unique case of an advanced soul acting in accord with his highest self in a particular and dangerous time period where killing was a necessary part of the "mission." Basically, as another mentioned, the killing was OK because of time/place. Very dangerous to extrapolate that out to almost any other situation, especially in today's world.
Third, I'm very intrigued by the comment about "when the [prayer] packets arrive" to Caesar. As exhaustively discussed, religion today is part of the control system and may even work to be an energetic feeding ground for 4d STS. This comment about the packet arrival suggests to me more about how someone prays. My guess would be that a sincere request for help from a soul asking without anticipation would be most likely to land in Caesar's mailbox. Demands or the energetic praise demanded by religion are more likely to be routed to STS. Is that how others are seeing this comment?
Approaching Infinity said:
I think it's such a loaded topic for some, because it means that some lives do have more value than others. And it may become particularly vivid during crisis times, when it is each person's responsibility to make oneself useful to the Universe.
On the other hand, with all the greatness and usefulness of Caesar, he couldn't be saved from his fate. The same is with Kennedy, or Princess Diana. So there is probably some other mechanism at play here, maybe a concept of service to others that transcends time or this person's life. Maybe that's why Caesar said: "In the end you must be true to your own nature and fear nothing. If you do that you may make a difference after you are gone." Well, hopefully, if one learns from mistakes of others, there will be an opportunity to see one's seeds bearing fruit in this lifetime too! ;)
Elen
The Force is Strong With This One
Thanks to C’s, Laura and all that were participated, this session brings feelings of hope and shines a new light on many concepts. Like other that mentioned it, I have also noticed how the approach and the dynamics of the sessions changed through the years, as the knowledge grew .. how and what to ask and how to receive the information, and how to cope with it. I am sad to admit that only from last sessions (and revisiting Knowledge and Being videos) I was able to grasp the immense effort and risks taken by group to make this material public in faithful form. I somehow saw only the “pleasure” aspects of it.
Reading the last transcript I had to stop in order to absorb it properly. I found it fascinating how C’s have opened the door to contacting other positive entities, and with them around, it seems like double security entity checking at the entrance!
It seems that changing of the future – as done by Laura, Ark and the group, implies changing of the past and it sort of harmoniously occur together.
Reading the last transcript I had to stop in order to absorb it properly. I found it fascinating how C’s have opened the door to contacting other positive entities, and with them around, it seems like double security entity checking at the entrance!
It seems that changing of the future – as done by Laura, Ark and the group, implies changing of the past and it sort of harmoniously occur together.
Thank you to all (C's, Session Members and now JC),
I recently have gone from reading about the Historical Database which led me to Was Julius Caesar Jesus the real Jesus Christ?, Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection and now full circle to this session which includes questions for Julius Caesar in 5th density.
My head is spinning lately with so much to think about but I suppose that at sometime "the pieces will fall into place".
Hopefully the 1635 birth date will speed along the finalization of date lines for the historical database.
Caesar's remarks are sobering and at the same time compassionate.
Thanks again
I recently have gone from reading about the Historical Database which led me to Was Julius Caesar Jesus the real Jesus Christ?, Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection and now full circle to this session which includes questions for Julius Caesar in 5th density.
My head is spinning lately with so much to think about but I suppose that at sometime "the pieces will fall into place".
Hopefully the 1635 birth date will speed along the finalization of date lines for the historical database.
Caesar's remarks are sobering and at the same time compassionate.
Thanks again