finding partners...

Oxajil said:
Maybe you'll get tired of this lifestyle at some point. I personally don't think it's a respectful way to treat yourself and others. And, even though cliché and easier said than done, I think that where there is a will, there's a way. And to stay on-topic, what kind of impression do you think (clever) girls will have of you? In all honesty, promiscuity, I think, won't leave a good impression on someone. Well, just some thoughts.

I think what Carl's expressed here shows a healthy insight into the dynamics of his own instincts, emotions and limitations 'as a machine' and is valuable for exactly that reason. For me, the initial thing that come to mind is fair play for being so damn honest! : ) Personally, I've always felt that male sexuality is one of the most base and difficult aspects of the mechanicalness we face...potentially even the most mechanical aspect of our being. in many obvious ways, we're overtly visual creatures, sexually impulsive and often frustrated as the thread shows.......our minds often being overly occupied and annexed by sexual desires and fantasies on some level or another. For most men there really is much work to be done around sexuality (though perhaps for woman too).........

In my experience there seems to be a clearly observable level of sexual immaturity that many or most men don't seem to grow out of ever. Carl has highlighted this well: it's common for physical urges to become so overwhelming and demanding that we can end up settling for nothing more than a 'transaction' based on physical desire: mutual masturbation if you like, which may be temporary and terminated if some other transaction becomes more favourable.

What's alarming (though not at all surprising) in this thread is that there are more than enough references regarding men's interactions with women as being either a 'success' or or a 'failure' as if there's a game to played and one can 'achieve' more or less, depending on how one 'plays the game' and I'm inclined to think that this is certainly pathological on some level....or at the least, a good example of service to self and nothing more.

Having said that, I'm not sure if your use of the word 'promiscuity' is accurate. It's a term almost always used in a derogatory sense to evoke the idea of being somehow 'dirty' or 'deviant'. I don't think there's enough information about Carl's situation here to tell if this is the case. Likewise, drawing attention to this 'promiscuity' in terms of what impression it will leave on others. The impression of the masses is often confused and erroneous and perhaps not a great motivating factor for change. In terms of the work, this just seems like a great opportunity for self observation and potential growth. If I was in carl's position I'd be asking the following questions:

- Am I manipulating the women I'm sleeping with in any way? If so, how?

- Do I have to rely on being dishonest (overtly or by omission) in any way in order to fulfil the transaction?

- Despite this convenient arrangement, is there a part of me that sees the outcome with 'success'......... a sense of achievement and skill? If so, what does this mean about the relationship and about my own level of being?

- Am I sacrificing my long term Aim for a temporary pleasure (rewarding the predator).................
 
luke wilson said:
The way you described your need to have sex made it appear like you have this hunger inside you. If your need is that great, mine must be going supernova right now as I have 4 years on you and I'm a stone cold virgin surrounded by beautiful women everywhere and all sorts of stuff that is designed to get your heart racing.

fwiw I was a virgin until about the same age as you luke, until I got myself into some relationships that where very unhealthy (and that lasted 7+ years due to my 'loyalty').
In hindsight I can see that pretty much everything to do with any kind of social interaction, 'intimate' relationships being an amplified version (probably because of desires and hormones all mixing together) is based on avoiding the pain of social rejection and angsting about it.

mugatea said:
I'm lovesick at the mo, really putting me in a bad/self loathing place. I see/chat to this woman pretty much everyday - she's an employee of mine and in a happy relationship and generally we meet up most days at the same time to walk dogs! I've never had a girlfriend. I end up withdrawing from people I have feelings for and do a "I dont care about you" act and so this week have been staying away and not walking with her and not being really chatty and then hating myself after for being such a prat. I tried Plenty of fish a couple of weeks ago thinking that might help but after sending 40 messages to local girls and getting zero responses it just made me feel so bad I quit. I have problems with rejection and confrontation, I know this cause a old lady in a dream told me. lol

I'm hoping the EE (which I started this week will help me 'man-up' and behave in a more proper and healthy manner and help with my own self loathing.

Everytime I see this girl it just makes me feel so depressed, really bad and I think there's a combo of starting keto and just starting EE which is adding to my low vibes.

Anyone been lovesick? How did you deal with it? Is me staying away the right thing to do or pathetic? Do I just need a kick up the arse?

Jamie

Again I went through this, and my default behaviour was social withdrawl/isolation - even for 'not having friends'.

A useful thing to learn about us as machines is that memory and imagination are registered as 'real and now' by the brain, and if you are particularly sensitive/predisposed or have gone through many invalidating/painful experiences the accumulated pain can make you hypervigilant to avoiding it.

Feeling like a failure/social outcast, feeling 'broken', and all this being amplified when the sex drive kicks in and you start thinking about having 'failed' compared to the rest of society.

http://www.sott.net/article/226527-To-the-brain-the-pain-of-rejection-really-hurts
To the brain the pain of rejection really hurts
Randolph E. Schmid
Associated Press
Tue, 29 Mar 2011 06:22 CEST
Print
Washington - The pain of rejection is more than just a figure of speech.

The regions of the brain that respond to physical pain overlap with those that react to social rejection, according to a new study that used brain imaging on people involved in romantic breakups.

"These results give new meaning to the idea that rejection 'hurts,'"wrote psychology professor Ethan Kross of the University of Michigan and his colleagues. Their findings are reported in Tuesday's edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Co-author Edward Smith of Columbia University explained that the research shows that psychological or social events can affect regions of the brain that scientists thought were dedicated to physical pain.

In a way, we're saying "it's not a metaphor," Smith said in a telephone interview.

The study involved 40 volunteers who went through an unwanted romantic break-up in the previous six months and who said thinking about the break-up caused them to feel intensely rejected.

Functional MRI's were used to study their brains in four situations: When viewing a photo of the ex-partner and thinking about the break-up; when viewing a photo of a friend and thinking of a positive experience with that person; when a device placed on their arm produced a gentle, comforting warmth, and when that device became hot enough to cause pain, though not physical damage.

The two negative situations - thinking about the loss of a partner and the burn - caused response in the overlapping parts of the brain, the study found.

Previous studies had not shown a relationship between physical and emotional pain, but those had used a less dramatic event, such as simply being told someone doesn't like you, Smith said.

In this case, the volunteers were people who had actually been rejected and were still feeling it, he said.

There is evidence that emotional stress, such as the loss of a loved one, can affect people physically, and Smith said studies like this may help researchers devise ways to aid people who are sensitive to loss or rejection.

So fwiw worrying about such things can cause/amplify any anxiety/pain (probably from loneliness - but it can be any type of physical/emotional pain that triggers this, as well as fatigue, hormonal imbalances, inflammation etc) that already existed. Add in social withdrawal as a coping mechanism and guilt and you create a loop in which the pain levels of 'social rejection' can become unbarable.
The irony (and part of the catch 22) is that from the point of view of evolution/human nature is that the best way of dealing with pain is sharing it socially so isolating the self makes it worse as there is no outlet for it. Feeling safe enough to share is part of that, as your brain/experience probably tells you that sharing such pain opens you to be hurt by social rejection! Having someone tell you that 'your pain is stupid/means nothing'.

Now I could be wrong on this, but the same underlying 'fear of social rejection'/amplification of pain may be present in those that tend to be driven to seek out sex. The difference is that they learned how to engage socially. If you can spot anxiety and a 'build up'/amplification of feelings that eventually drives you to 'do something' then it seems highly probable. Guilt and shame are other clues. In the end the behaviour that is used to 'relieve the pressure' isn't so much the issue as the drive and faulty self beliefs that cause the build up.

The brain should negate the pain by releasing opiods, but overactivation (or genetics) can cause opiod tolerance - thus repeated exposure to social rejection (real or imagined) becomes more and more unbarable.



_http://clubhousenews.com/our-brain-releases-painkillers-when-were-rejected/
Our brain releases painkillers when we’re rejected
10/12/2013
By Casey Frye, CCNN Writer

The popular saying, “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me” is usually taught to young children to teach them how to stay strong when others say mean things. Essentially, it’s saying that as long as a person is not physically injuring you, there is no way you can be harmed. However, researchers from the University of Michigan find that tauntings do sting a little, but the brain is there to kiss the pain away!
Of course, not literally, because brains don’t have lips after all. However, our ol’ noggins do have a special chemical known as “opioid.” Usually, when our bodies get injured, the brain releases this chemical to kind of dull the pain so it doesn’t hurt as bad. Apparently, it also sends out opioids when we’re socially rejected!
In their study, the Michigan researchers had volunteers go through fake personal profiles and select ones they felt would be interested in going out with them, kind of like an online dating site. Then the researchers place the volunteers in a PET scanner – a machine that images out the brain – and told the participants that person didn’t want to go on a date (how sad!). Guess what happened?
There was a surge of opioids released into the body even though there wasn’t a physical injury, as if the body was curing those rejection blues! “This is the first study to peer into the human brain to show that the opioid system is activated during social rejection,” said David T. Hsu, Ph.D., a research assistant professor of psychiatry. “In general, opioids have been known to be released during social distress and isolation in animals, but where this occurs in the human brain has not been shown until now.”
You want to know what’s really crazy though? The same exact surge happened when the person was socially accepted as well! That is, opioids were released when researchers told participants the person they were interested in wanted to go out. Hey, what’s the deal there? “The opioid system is known to play a role in both reducing pain and promoting pleasure, and our study shows that it also does this in the social environment,” says Hsu.
The scientists hope to use the information to treat individuals who suffer from depression.

https://youtu.be/W2QjbdYfakg

Mal7 said:
[..]
In finding partners I think we are looking for intimacy, but having physical relations with a person we have just met is not necessarily intimate in the sense of intimacy that is of most value (I think that kind of intimacy would involve learning more about the other person on the kind of "mental plane" level - what they like, what they think about things, how they tick.) M Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Travelled" had a couple of chapters that I thought were quite good about dismissing the idea of romantic love, and suggesting instead that loving someone is better described as making a conscious decision and commitment. "The Narcissistic Family" by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman also has a short chapter on Intimacy, Sex, and Friendship:

[. . .] there is a world of difference between recreational or procreational sex, and sex as an expression of deep feeling and commitment. As the heroine in a recent best-seller says, "In some ways, loving is easy. It's trusting that's so hard." Our corollary to that is that sex may be easy, but intimacy is hard.
- p. 122.

When I was going through this myself people would give me advice, tell me I could redirect my sexual energy into other things, not to think about it so much etc etc....none of it really helped and mostly just fed my (very ineffectual) self coping mechanism of social isolation/anxiety/pain amplification/angsting about how 'broken' I was as a human and how I didn't deserve to be around others.

I think the above quote sums it up - I was always on alert for social rejection (real or perceived) and so could never be truly (soulfully) intimate with anyone. Taking on advice was not possible. This also got blocked because it seems that 'no one understood my pain' :rolleyes: which appart from being passively narcissistic was actually more about my personal wounds and how they formed - specifically I never felt (even if I was) emotionally validated. It's like the teenager that scream "You just don't understand me!" and slams the door - what they are actually saying is "I'm feeling really emotionally hurt right now, totally invalidated and socially isolated". In short "I'm experiencing social rejection right now, and it hurts like someone just broke my leg!"
More on all of this here.

No one wants to be told what they feel is wrong, because it freaking hurts! Especially if it's the emotions, and social interactions are all about emotions. Avoiding emotional invalidation, and seeking emotional validation. You can't hear the advice of others when you are doing that automatically, and especially if they can't communicate it in a way that acknowledges your feelings.

So what happens if you can see all of that, and take it out of the equation? If you can find healthier ways to get emotional validation (i.e. validate your existence) and eventually learn to self validate (in a non narcissistic ways - tricky huh!), then the pressure to 'go and find someone' drops away.
Sure you may get lonely, or may want sex, or even just a superficial conversation - but you can then calmly acknowledge it and have more room to choose to do something different about it :)

These things don't go away, because we're all human.
What can change is how we see/understand them (are my emotions becoming amplified/dysregulated, and driving me to do something I don't want to do?) and with the right tools/practice what we choose to do with them.

*edit* clarity
 
I apologize Carl if what I said came across as derogatory, that wasn't my intention. :-[
 
This really boils it down succinctly. I've always found it frustrating that I cannot seem to make solid, meaningful change without learning on my own "the hard way"

Can you make a meaningful (lasting) change without learning "The hard way?" Meaning do you really get the lesson with your three centers your entire being if someone just tells you intellectually?

he way you described your need to have sex made it appear like you have this hunger inside you. If your need is that great, mine must be going supernova right now as I have 4 years on you and I'm a stone cold virgin surrounded by beautiful women everywhere and all sorts of stuff that is designed to get your heart racing
.

We have never met so I don't know you personally however after reading your previous posts and this one I am going to go out on a limb and say it seems to me that you are more afraid of social rejection/humiliation then the want to have sex/sexual relationship. Your ego is still very strong in you IMO. It is possible to get to the point where you just don't care what others think because you know you are a good person and if you make a mistake it was because you didn't have enough experience or knowledge about a situation that your intentions were not to be negative. We are here to evolve and if fear holds you back everyday over and over again then your growth will be one sided/slow and the lesson will be waiting for you and IMO the more you wait the more hurtful the lesson the more the sacred cows build up in your intellectual center and it is hurtful to the being to have those broken they will be whether your 25, 35, 45 or 55. (You will have more at 55 then 25)
 
Oxajil said:
Carl said:
lainey said:
Those step by step instructions struck me as kinda weird. Isn't the point just being yourself and doing what is natural to you and when you meet the right person they just "fit" and there is no need to find a manual to explain "needs" or how you should change to meet the expectations of someone else. If you have focused your energy on work on yourself all the obstacles most relationships come up against shouldn't be a problem if you are aware and open. I kind of swing towards having a polar opposite who I may or may not meet in this life and I'm just not that interested in actively finding a partner right now. If the right person comes along, they come along. great, if not, great. I'd much rather focus my time on self development and building trusting, platonic relationships and friendships. I believe we can learn to nurture each other and don't necessarily need to have a "partner" to be happy. Just my opinion though.

Work on oneself includes work on one's social skills, including those skills relating to the opposite sex. The idea of "just be yourself and everything will be fine" is more of a fairy tale that would only be true in an ideal world. It strikes me as an easy self-narrative to adopt in order to not work on certain skills.

But notice that lainey did not say not to work on the self. Work on the self also includes being a good obyvatel, being able to socialize with people, improve social skills, etc.
Yes, I haven't explained myself very well there I see. What I meant was if you do the work on yourself and can rid yourself of many of the crippling programmes we are ingrained with that prevent us from having social skills then you will begin to find parts of your "true self" that you can start to live from. So if you can learn to be your "true self" then that is what the "right person" will find attractive and you can build a real, honest relationship from this. So to expect people to accept you as you are and not do the work is indeed living in a fairy tale, however finding and being those true aspects of yourself and overcoming ones self importance is the perfect way to start. IMO

itellsya said:
And i think this feeds into confidence, when your intention is just to treat the other person with consideration and to just let the relationship become, the other person can 'feel' this. It seems to me there's a lot of anticipation built in to this dynamic we are discussing, which i think is part of the problem. I think.

I totally agree here, some of the dynamic is like saying if I behave in x, y, z manner then I will be a success. In some aspects (and this is not a reflection of how I think people here are thinking, it's just something else to ponder) it's almost like assuming that every person out there would sleep/be in a relationship with you if only you acted in a certain way instead of taking each person as an individual who you may or may not have a connection with.

Mal7 said:
In finding partners I think we are looking for intimacy, but having physical relations with a person we have just met is not necessarily intimate in the sense of intimacy that is of most value (I think that kind of intimacy would involve learning more about the other person on the kind of "mental plane" level - what they like, what they think about things, how they tick.) M Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Travelled" had a couple of chapters that I thought were quite good about dismissing the idea of romantic love, and suggesting instead that loving someone is better described as making a conscious decision and commitment. "The Narcissistic Family" by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman also has a short chapter on Intimacy, Sex, and Friendship:

[. . .] there is a world of difference between recreational or procreational sex, and sex as an expression of deep feeling and commitment. As the heroine in a recent best-seller says, "In some ways, loving is easy. It's trusting that's so hard." Our corollary to that is that sex may be easy, but intimacy is hard.
- p. 122.

Absolutely, I believe in my personal experiences all I have ever been looking for in a partner is someone to share myself with, emotionally, mentally and spiritually. In most cases, sex was just something that came along with it. Which is probably why most of my relationships didn't work out, because I wanted to share something other than just physical sensations. Sex came second to me and every time I got bored of the gratification factor of sex itself and climax. I was looking for something deeper (excuse the pun) and when the intellectual side wasn't there things just fell apart.

mugatea said:
I'm lovesick at the mo, really putting me in a bad/self loathing place. I see/chat to this woman pretty much everyday - she's an employee of mine and in a happy relationship and generally we meet up most days at the same time to walk dogs! I've never had a girlfriend. I end up withdrawing from people I have feelings for and do a "I dont care about you" act and so this week have been staying away and not walking with her and not being really chatty and then hating myself after for being such a prat. I tried Plenty of fish a couple of weeks ago thinking that might help but after sending 40 messages to local girls and getting zero responses it just made me feel so bad I quit. I have problems with rejection and confrontation, I know this cause a old lady in a dream told me. lol

I'm hoping the EE (which I started this week will help me 'man-up' and behave in a more proper and healthy manner and help with my own self loathing.

Everytime I see this girl it just makes me feel so depressed, really bad and I think there's a combo of starting keto and just starting EE which is adding to my low vibes.

Anyone been lovesick? How did you deal with it? Is me staying away the right thing to do or pathetic? Do I just need a kick up the arse?

Jamie

You said yourself she is in a happy relationship and also an employee, that to me indicates you are her boss and therefore in a position of trust. Think about the complications it would create to act upon those feelings. If it was me, it simply wouldn't be an option. Period. I would stay away if it was too painful for me.
I know how it feels to want something so badly it hurts your heart, perhaps you could focus on the things that you can and do have already and what you can do to change yourself in order to overcome your rejection and confrontation issues. Also don't feel so bad about the dating site, if you are struggling and trying to force something to happen it probably won't happen, like the C's said "When it is a struggle, you are not learning, stop struggling and meditate." As for "manning up" perhaps what you need is to not "man up" and deal with the emotions you are having in a compassionate and understanding way. You are not pathetic, you are a human being with thoughts, feelings and desires just like all the other souled beings here. We hurt sometimes and to me it is important to help each other through the hard times gently and with care. My aim is to break down my emotional armouring, not build it up by manning up. :hug2:

Zenith said:
If I was in carl's position I'd be asking the following questions:

- Am I manipulating the women I'm sleeping with in any way? If so, how?

- Do I have to rely on being dishonest (overtly or by omission) in any way in order to fulfil the transaction?

- Despite this convenient arrangement, is there a part of me that sees the outcome with 'success'......... a sense of achievement and skill? If so, what does this mean about the relationship and about my own level of being?

- Am I sacrificing my long term Aim for a temporary pleasure (rewarding the predator).................

Some great points here. I ended my last relationship because of that last one. There was simply too much distraction, all it boiled down to was having my ego stroked for a while and it was causing me to neglect the things I found to be most important ie the work, EE, meditation, proof reading for SOTT ect. It simply wasn't worth it even though it made me feel good.

itellsya said:
I know my flapping willy would be an arousing distraction at times.

teehee :lol:

Zenith said:
I think what Carl's expressed here shows a healthy insight into the dynamics of his own instincts, emotions and limitations 'as a machine' and is valuable for exactly that reason. For me, the initial thing that come to mind is fair play for being so damn honest! : ) Personally, I've always felt that male sexuality is one of the most base and difficult aspects of the mechanicalness we face...potentially even the most mechanical aspect of our being. in many obvious ways, we're overtly visual creatures, sexually impulsive and often frustrated as the thread shows.......our minds often being overly occupied and annexed by sexual desires and fantasies on some level or another. For most men there really is much work to be done around sexuality (though perhaps for woman too).........

I believe just as much for women, we are surrounded by an intense pressure to be sexy, to feel sexy, to portray an unrealistic image of what it is to be feminine. There is so much programming from a young age. We have even twisted oursleves into thinking we should think and act like "men" and "take back our sexual freedoms" which puts more pressure on girls to have multiple partners, take part in group sex and have one night stands in order to prove that we can do it too and we are strong and free. NOT SO! I find it so sad to see people just give themselves away at the drop of a hat (or pair of knickers) to people they don't even really like that much in order to have that small amount of self gratification or to imply a feeling of self worth or to feel loved if only for a night. I'm not saying sex is not fun but if we are truly here to progress spiritually then we would dedicate more efforts to work on ourselves and we wouldn't need validation from outside sources or take actions in order to validate ourselves.

RedFox said:
No one wants to be told what they feel is wrong, because it freaking hurts! Especially if it's the emotions, and social interactions are all about emotions. Avoiding emotional invalidation, and seeking emotional validation. You can't hear the advice of others when you are doing that automatically, and especially if they can't communicate it in a way that acknowledges your feelings.

So what happens if you can see all of that, and take it out of the equation? If you can find healthier ways to get emotional validation (i.e. validate your existence) and eventually learn to self validate (in a non narcissistic ways - tricky huh!), then the pressure to 'go and find someone' drops away.
Sure you may get lonely, or may want sex, or even just a superficial conversation - but you can then calmly acknowledge it and have more room to choose to do something different about it :)

These things don't go away, because we're all human.
What can change is how we see/understand them (are my emotions becoming amplified/dysregulated, and driving me to do something I don't want to do?) and with the right tools/practice what we choose to do with them.

*edit* clarity

This makes me think about the video of William Patrick Patterson where he is discussing his book The Life and Teachings of Carlos Castenada. It really is well worth the watch. One part in particular where he talks about giving yourself attention:

http://www.carlosnagual.net/video.html

"What do we all want? If we really shave everything down. Isn't one of the things we want is other peoples attention? Some people will do anything to get other peoples attention. Most people in business are in business for the power but also the attention. You are the captain of industry. Oh wow. Well why do we want other peoples attention? I have attention. Why do I want somebody else's attention? It's because I'm not giving myself attention. I'm totally projected outside myself. It's only when you come into the body, can remember yourself and sustain that, that you can share your attention with other people, but you don't need it. If you need somebody's attention, they have control over you. Why do we want anyone to have control over us? We don't of course, but they do because I'm not giving myself attention. I'm not sitting in my own seat. I'm sitting there being in the mind, listening, judging, what's that mean so forth and so on. I'm still in the formatory mind. That's unnatural, though it is natural in the consensus way. That everybody is talking to themselves, and everybody has been talking to themselves probably ever since the cavemen came in and started telling about this huge giraffe he saw which he couldn't name. "You've got to come out and see it!" See what I saw. St Frances has a beautiful line in his prayer: "Seek to understand and not to be understood""
 
Menna said:
I currently also have a large blockage from my childhood

Do your practice EE? Have you read the books here on codependency and narcissism


I always tell myself that I want to practice intensively EE, but I do only for occasional simple breathing.
I'm really scared, I think. When I had my Flashback after birth (after several weeks) my daughter, I was so mentally unstable and had partially suicidal thoughts.
I suspect that I need to tackle this thing slowly. So I came up with the idea with the Women's romance novels.
But I do not know if these ideas are correct or just cowardice? My (female) psychologist seemingly thought,too, it was ok, if I discover my body feeling as a woman for me in this way.


No I have not read the english books from this forum about codependency and narcissism.
However, I spent the last years not idle. I have read interesting books on German and I learn steadily all the time.
You make a allusion on codependency and narcissism. These two factors I'm relatively aware. A few hours ago I talked to my husband about our development. We are actually codependent. Without his safety, I would not have the luxury to think intensive about trauma work. And without my pursuit of higher my husband would have stuck like a zombie or slave in his trauma - what he himself has said (the latter). We have quite a lot of "fighting" in our young years.

But if it is not already hard enough to come with us, even the paranormal factor comes to it. Experiences with ghosts, ufos, etc..




lainey said:
....Sex came second to me and every time I got bored of the gratification factor of sex itself and climax. I was looking for something deeper (excuse the pun) and when the intellectual side wasn't there things just fell apart.


I can not say anything about fulfilling sex life from personal experience; you can conceive a child, even if you have a blocked body :rolleyes:
But it is of course very desirable in the normal case, to put the sex life in second place, and to concentrate on deeper things.


lainey said:
.... if we are truly here to progress spiritually then we would dedicate more efforts to work on ourselves and we wouldn't need validation from outside sources or take actions in order to validate ourselves.


I do not know if I really understood the translation. But here are my thoughts:
I learned, that you can not deal with some difficult tasks (see my profile saying) alone. Therefore, there is nothing wrong to get help or to take advantage of, if you really want to. I see my husband, my daughter and other suggestions/information as essential aids in my life, without which I maybe would not really come forward.
 
Alchemie said:
lainey said:
.... if we are truly here to progress spiritually then we would dedicate more efforts to work on ourselves and we wouldn't need validation from outside sources or take actions in order to validate ourselves.


I do not know if I really understood the translation. But here are my thoughts:
I learned, that you can not deal with some difficult tasks (see my profile saying) alone. Therefore, there is nothing wrong to get help or to take advantage of, if you really want to. I see my husband, my daughter and other suggestions/information as essential aids in my life, without which I maybe would not really come forward.

I meant it in the sense that we wouldn't need to sleep with multiple people and crave attention from men if we learned to love ourselves first. Of course we need support from sources that help us heal and feel a healthy love. :)
 
Alchemie said:
Menna said:
I currently also have a large blockage from my childhood

Do your practice EE? Have you read the books here on codependency and narcissism


I always tell myself that I want to practice intensively EE, but I do only for occasional simple breathing.
I'm really scared, I think. When I had my Flashback after birth (after several weeks) my daughter, I was so mentally unstable and had partially suicidal thoughts.
I suspect that I need to tackle this thing slowly. So I came up with the idea with the Women's romance novels.
But I do not know if these ideas are correct or just cowardice? My (female) psychologist seemingly thought,too, it was ok, if I discover my body feeling as a woman for me in this way.

Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype by Clarissa Pinkola Estés may be a good book to read, as it teaches you about inner strength in the face of traumatic relationships.
The German version can be found here:
Die Wolfsfrau erzählt: Auf den Spuren der Wilden Frau
 
However, I spent the last years not idle

It doesn't really matter how not idle you are its not just about working hard its about working right. EE is a slow breathing exercise you can start with a portion of the exercise and as you get use to it build towards the whole exercise once a week with the PIPE breathing used more frequently. I think deep down you have a feeling that EE will help you that is why you are afraid/hesitant.

You make a allusion on codependency and narcissism

I allusion to narcissism and codependency because I don't know how well read or experienced you are about the two topics. I am not going to go into detail to someone who I don't know I find it best to present the hints/information as I would say 9 out of 10 people born have one or both of these human conditions. If you are genuinely interested then I wouldn't have to go into detail anyway you would take the recommendation and look into it yourself and discover what it means to you. There are textbook definition for narcissism and codependency but there are also personal definitions that fit the individual. Finding out the truth about your programs has the best healing effects (After you go through the stages of astonishment, anger, resentment and then realize the best thing to do is just move forward) IMO Also in regards to your husband support and codependency are two different things there are alot of fine lines in this work and through knowledge and experiences you start to see them.
 
mugatea said:
How do the singles here find getting partners? I mean, to society what we believe in and do is just so bizarre and opposite to what they know. We eat freaky diets, are limited to few foods, don't believe in global warming, the war on terror, support Putin and our messiah was Caeser and all the rest!!

I'm sure it all fine if you already have partner then you can let them in to what goes on here and they can even join in but to a member of the general pubic your basically telling them that up is down, black is white and that unless they have a basic understanding of the real world or genuinly keen to know more (which is unlikely) then they and most people are actually incompatible - do you agree?

I've thought what would happen if I met someone, I couldn't even take them out to dinner or for a drink, not even a coffee and unless I got the impression that I could, I probably couldn't even talk about the things that get talked about here and on SOTT. So what are your experiences and opinions on this?

Jamie

Try to think once that doing the diet, not believing in global warming and all the rest can act like a protector shield for you! Or even like a filter that can show you more about a person.
 
RedFox said:
Women Who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype by Clarissa Pinkola Estés may be a good book to read, as it teaches you about inner strength in the face of traumatic relationships.
The German version can be found here:
Die Wolfsfrau erzählt: Auf den Spuren der Wilden Frau

Thanks, I will buy it :)



Menna said:
However, I spent the last years not idle

It doesn't really matter how not idle you are its not just about working hard its about working right. EE is a slow breathing exercise you can start with a portion of the exercise and as you get use to it build towards the whole exercise once a week with the PIPE breathing used more frequently. I think deep down you have a feeling that EE will help you that is why you are afraid/hesitant.

My fear is to imagine this reminder about the sexual abuse. The flashback was like a 1: 1 return back; one should not look directly into the eyes of the Medusa. In EE I thought did something can come again as described above.

I have ignored a bit the metaphor with the Medusa until a few months and wanted to drill on and on, have certainty, whether there expired organizes Crime.


I have long survived the madness. It would be stupid, now to hide before EE ...



You make a allusion on codependency and narcissism

I allusion to narcissism and codependency because I don't know how well read or experienced you are about the two topics. I am not going to go into detail to someone who I don't know I find it best to present the hints/information as I would say 9 out of 10 people born have one or both of these human conditions. If you are genuinely interested then I wouldn't have to go into detail anyway you would take the recommendation and look into it yourself and discover what it means to you. There are textbook definition for narcissism and codependency but there are also personal definitions that fit the individual. Finding out the truth about your programs has the best healing effects (After you go through the stages of astonishment, anger, resentment and then realize the best thing to do is just move forward) IMO Also in regards to your husband support and codependency are two different things there are alot of fine lines in this work and through knowledge and experiences you start to see them.


You're right, I understood the fine lines in the work with my husband with time. This really is very hard work.
I always think to myself, that this could only have basic to success, because we fit together for the key-lock principle. See also the book "When the masks falling down. Couples on the way to We" ( I think only available in german?):

The authors observed that the behavior patterns of men and women fit together for the key-lock principle.That is why both fall so hard together - but could well assist in managing their personal legacy as well. When the masks fall and the imprint of the childhood belong to the past, can the "we" grow steadily.
http://www.amazon.de/Wenn-die-Masken-fallen-Paare/dp/3980993639/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414102651&sr=8-1&keywords=wenn+die+masken+fallen
 
RedFox said:
The irony (and part of the catch 22) is that from the point of view of evolution/human nature is that the best way of dealing with pain is sharing it socially so isolating the self makes it worse as there is no outlet for it. Feeling safe enough to share is part of that, as your brain/experience probably tells you that sharing such pain opens you to be hurt by social rejection! Having someone tell you that 'your pain is stupid/means nothing'.

This was especially true for me... talking honestly with trusted family/friends (even those who are not esoteric in nature), proved to be invaluable and really facilitated the healing process for 'love' sickness. Getting the negative inner dialogue out of your mind takes a huge weight off.

RedFox said:
Now I could be wrong on this, but the same underlying 'fear of social rejection'/amplification of pain may be present in those that tend to be driven to seek out sex. The difference is that they learned how to engage socially. If you can spot anxiety and a 'build up'/amplification of feelings that eventually drives you to 'do something' then it seems highly probable. Guilt and shame are other clues. In the end the behaviour that is used to 'relieve the pressure' isn't so much the issue as the drive and faulty self beliefs that cause the build up.

Very wise words... social rejection is something I've been working my way through lately, and when it gets the better of you, it certainly CAN drive one to seek out sexual relationships. However it's been helpful to try and picture the type of future you want to be in, and the type of healing (or not!) you want to go through before acting on these drives. (Even writing in a notepad about the outcomes is a great exercise).

When I've been feeling down because of the feelings brought on by rejection etc, it's been extremely beneficial to engage in simple activities such as DIY(decorating, general repairs around the house), exercise, catching up with a friend/relative... just things that aren't in your normal routine, to channel the build up of energy elsewhere.
 
Menna said:
I allusion to narcissism and codependency because I don't know how well read or experienced you are about the two topics. I am not going to go into detail to someone who I don't know I find it best to present the hints/information as I would say 9 out of 10 people born have one or both of these human conditions.

I'm come on the track to understand the human conditions by (depths) * psychology and environmental influences ** .

* The emotional state of the parents at conception of new life and the acting out (Auslebung) of the trauma or the "work" (=trauma work).
** - Nature events
- Interaction/influences of psychopaths
-Distractions
- Nutrients during the conception of a child and the corresponding quality in sperm, ova (see, eg. books by Weston A.Price) and the influence of the other stages in the development; the nutrient quality as fetus, embryo, infant, etc..
-poisons such as vaccinations,radiations, mold, sugar, etc.


Depending on the hardness degree of personal trauma, it is very forces Intricately/power consuming (kräfteaufwendig) to allow oneself to see this knowledge and accordingly to act constructively in everyday life. That is the lesson that I'm learning now. This helps me to develop/ have compassion for others (and for myself) in a more mature state.

This is all really exciting/fascinating.
 
The emotional state of the parents at conception

Not only at conception but through the child's life during different situation they react to the child based on their views and their wants. If you grow up in a two parent house hold you are given your ideals, view points and opinions. Here in America this continues till about High School age when you have more independence to venture out be around other people for length of time. Then if you share your new ideas and thoughts with your parents what do you think they say/react? Alot of times in finding partners you really find the others family and how they were raised.
 
This might be slightly off topic, but this thread has drawn my thoughts to the issue of Love, and I'm struck by the (obvious) fact that it is really the science of Being. It's not just a feeling, it's a discovery. It's a journey towards a "New World". It's not cheap. To Love myself I have to know myself. But I have to get over the hump of my own lies and recognize that "myself" is false. That in and of itself is like crossing Mt. Everest! And to love another in this physical realm I must be capable of it, we must meet one another on Mt. Everest - and how grizzled with battle will we look when we meet there? :lol: But we will certainly respect one another.

The following are a few quotes I thought were good "Love" quotes, that I have found useful to reflect upon and apply while trying to change my attitude towards myself, Love, and Knowledge.

Grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood, as to understand,
to be loved as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive,
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying [to ourselves] that we are born to eternal life.”
― Francis of Assisi [disputed]

And let them show their love by the works they do for each other, according as the Apostle says: "let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth."
Francis of Assisi,

And in this crazy, collapsing world, the words of Paul have a strange rationality in light of the 4th Way and the collapse of complex systems:

From Suffering to Glory

For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?
But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance

Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose...

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril of sword? As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God..

I still hope much in Love, despite having been single for most of my life. But over that time, through the more and more conscious suffering of my biological needs and the forum's help in becoming sincere with myself, I see that I have been wanting love for MYSELF. And that's where the silliness is. Finding ways to utilize Knowledge for the sake of others is where it's really at, and there is no more satisfying form of Love IMO, though it's very difficult for "sinners" like me. But even that obstacle has worth:

“And St. Francis said: 'My dear son, be patient, because the weaknesses of the body are given to us in this world by God for the salvation of the soul. So they are of great merit when they are borne patiently.”
― Francis of Assisi, The Little Flowers of St. Francis of Assisi
 
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