When does pride in your race cross the line?

Okay so its MLK day :) and he has done a lot for ALL. Now a question came in my mind about cultural/racial pride and how in the US it may be taken as disliking other races. A lot in my life I've gotten comments like "you don't act black enough or you talk like a white girl" Now I'm hoping that speaking white (whatever that means) isn't saying that being a black female I need to speak uneducated. The pressure to place the fact that I am black in a portrait and I just don't know where the line is being drawn. I made a comment that I don't like ghetto people in the 11th grade (no race just ghetto) and was cornered in a bathroom and called a racist and told I don't like my race...yeah you're prob making the same face as me when I heard that. See the thing is I should have A kept my mouth closed (what is ghetto anyway) I guess what I meant was I dislike uneducated people or those who act uneducated. Any who in short the remarks above to me seem more racist than anything and pure stupidity to associate ignorance with my race. So when is it pride, and when is it simply bashing another race or your own?

I think it all comes down to being externally considerate to all people regardless of their race, social status or education level and working on our own feelings of superiority/inferiority regarding the same.

The concept of race has been blown way out of proportion and is used as a way to divide people. The same goes for social status and education level.

I most certainly don't feel "proud" of Barack Obama or Condolizard Rice, but I do feel "proud" of MLK, not because he was black, but because he was extraordinary and worked for the betterment of humanity. And I don't feel proud to be black, nor do I feel shame or inferiority for being black. (Though coming to terms with programming regarding race is part of life's lessons).

So, regarding racial pride, I kinda don't get it. George Carlin summed it up well when he said:

"I could never understand ethnic or national pride. Because to me, pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill, it’s a f*cking genetic accident. You wouldn't say “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a predisposition for colon cancer.” So why the f*ck would you be proud to be Irish, or proud to be Italian, or American or anything?"

This thread contains an interesting discussion on race: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31985.15.html

To continue what Odyssey said, I actually think all pride is just ego related. "Here- acknowledge me because I did "this" ". Ok, so you did that. Why does that make you more "special" than others? It just happens to be your innate ability relative to your soul profile and genetic construct. This does nothing but to glorify the purely physical realm, IMO. Perhaps I am wrong, so if I am, please correct my misdirected thought process, but acknowledgement of a task or ability by others is one thing, but to expect it is entirely another. I remember something to this effect from G, but can't recall which book it was in.

Eventually the feelings of superiority/inferiority lead this world to chaos and struggling each other. As Odyssey has quoted G. Carlin I totally agree and what we see at the moment that folks don't observe this issue.

Even that Charlie Hedbo thing shows us the same tendency: one group ( most likely atheistic) counts that it has the right to dislike religious community supposing only fact that it's a full BS.

Also, what we need is considering of black and white thinking.

P.S. I think I could be on the wrong track here

celenajohnson23, considering that there are 'white ghettos' as well as 'black ghettos', and even 'asian ghettos' where people of a similar ilk live together, I don't think that we should look down on them because of their circumstances.
It's not a sin to be poor. You can be poor and hold your head up high.
It's not a sin to speak with an accent. At least those in your neighbourhood will understand you.
It's certainly not sinful to be black or white, or yellow skinned. That's just an accident of birth, which the C's might say you chose before you were born.

It's how you think towards others that counts.
I've heard that 'God loves the sinner, but hates the sin'.
I think we should be like that, so even if we do find ourselves surrounded by psychopaths, we can find some good in them, because everybody on this planet is STS to some extent, otherwise we could never wash, feed or clothe ourselves.

It's hard sometimes, be strong, be happy.
Smile and the world smiles with you.

In my own thoughts I realized that I feel the need to assert intelligence, and a bad habit of placing others on levels given their knowledge of really unimportant things when compared to what is on the forum, and sott. What a horrible way to think almost like a game of control via intelligence...getting a perfect score on a test vs getting below that...feeling of superiority...and living in bad circumstances so the need to separate from that by any means (words such as ghetto and preppy)....Race as a form of superiority...labeling one inferior; making the words written in some guide to being: ____ insert race
S-Kur maybe the issue comes from trying to assert which(who or what) race is superior...through whatever means, and not showing some sort of pride for your own race is challenging that given races superiority in any given aspect. Being ok with being a person isn't enough...you are expected to play out whatever drama is scripted for your race (genres of music, food, dress) going outside of that possesses a threat maybe?
QL pride being ego related...I see that and that's the direction I was meaning...What gives us this feeling to DECLARE our ethnic differences so boldly and to be threatened with any form of inferiority being associated with it? Unless its between people of the same race...then for some reason its ok to say derogatory things If I came out and said I make the worlds best shakes...Im sure that would be challenged... so why is this different with race? Why do we cling to something that clearly causes/caused issues...and the media constantly with "white cop this black boy that" Its never just officer and boy...someone died...why does it matter what his race was...black on black crime is high...but those are just shootings or whatever...never is the race the issue if you can catch what I mean. We can kill us but stop the world if another race does because then its racism...and we play into it...why?

celenajohnson23 said:

In my own thoughts I realized that I feel the need to assert intelligence, and a bad habit of placing others on levels given their knowledge of really unimportant things when compared to what is on the forum, and sott. What a horrible way to think almost like a game of control via intelligence...getting a perfect score on a test vs getting below that...feeling of superiority...and living in bad circumstances so the need to separate from that by any means (words such as ghetto and preppy)....Race as a form of superiority...labeling one inferior; making the words written in some guide to being: ____ insert race
S-Kur maybe the issue comes from trying to assert which(who or what) race is superior...through whatever means, and not showing some sort of pride for your own race is challenging that given races superiority in any given aspect. Being ok with being a person isn't enough...you are expected to play out whatever drama is scripted for your race (genres of music, food, dress) going outside of that possesses a threat maybe?
QL pride being ego related...I see that and that's the direction I was meaning...What gives us this feeling to DECLARE our ethnic differences so boldly and to be threatened with any form of inferiority being associated with it? Unless its between people of the same race...then for some reason its ok to say derogatory things If I came out and said I make the worlds best shakes...Im sure that would be challenged... so why is this different with race? Why do we cling to something that clearly causes/caused issues...and the media constantly with "white cop this black boy that" Its never just officer and boy...someone died...why does it matter what his race was...black on black crime is high...but those are just shootings or whatever...never is the race the issue if you can catch what I mean. We can kill us but stop the world if another race does because then its racism...and we play into it...why?

Click to expand...

Many uncounted years of indoctrinations based on false teachings all around. More divide & conquer techniques to keep the negative cycles producing food. At the end of the day we all need access to clean air, water & food along with shelter and some say love, but imagine if air or water weren't readily available, would people band together to get them or would they fight amongst each other?

Well, I have to say I really struggled to reconcile within myself the whole western produced image of what it is to be black today. That whole 'ghetto', supposedly acting 'black' and consuming black culture thing. First of all, black culture is produced within corporations... How we are portrayed in movies, the music we are fed, how we are supposed to talk... All that is produced by corporations. The drugs that overcame black communities in western countries, the social segregation, all that was produced by an external force. None of it happened naturally. Now, when people say this is who you are, how you should act, I just get baffled because I don't understand it. I saw it even when I was young growing up in Africa. The way these stuff was being exported into Africa and changing young people there who now wanted to imitate the whole being black thing. It was all very strange. Even the situation within Africa is not natural, its all imposed... the poverty, the corruption, the whole thing, the fake culture being exported in etc. But then, I think you should have deep respect for those who went before you and what they had to go through. Their mistakes, their triumphs, they live on through you whether you like it or not. So yeah, I think you should have respect for family, your 'race' and humanity as a whole. Who ever made respect of who you are turn into hate for the 'other' must have a very sick mind.

I think coming into conscious awareness of the dynamics at play, how they affect you etc will really help keep your mental hygiene as it is under a constant onslaught. For that reason I would refrain from referring to 'ghetto' people as 'uneducated'... The whole ghetto situation isn't natural, its barely a reflection on the person.. Big negative forces are at work in those spaces. Instead I would look at myself to see what forces are at work on me, because no doubt, there are some.

luke wilson said:

Well, I have to say I really struggled to reconcile within myself the whole western produced image of what it is to be black today. That whole 'ghetto', supposedly acting 'black' and consuming black culture thing. First of all, black culture is produced within corporations... How we are portrayed in movies, the music we are fed, how we are supposed to talk... All that is produced by corporations. The drugs that overcame black communities in western countries, the social segregation, all that was produced by an external force. None of it happened naturally. Now, when people say this is who you are, how you should act, I just get baffled because I don't understand it. I saw it even when I was young growing up in Africa. The way these stuff was being exported into Africa and changing young people there who now wanted to imitate the whole being black thing. It was all very strange. Even the situation within Africa is not natural, its all imposed... the poverty, the corruption, the whole thing, the fake culture being exported in etc. But then, I think you should have deep respect for those who went before you and what they had to go through. Their mistakes, their triumphs, they live on through you whether you like it or not. So yeah, I think you should have respect for family, your 'race' and humanity as a whole. Who ever made respect of who you are turn into hate for the 'other' must have a very sick mind.

I think coming into conscious awareness of the dynamics at play, how they affect you etc will really help keep your mental hygiene as it is under a constant onslaught. For that reason I would refrain from referring to 'ghetto' people as 'uneducated'... The whole ghetto situation isn't natural, its barely a reflection on the person.. Big negative forces are at work in those spaces. Instead I would look at myself to see what forces are at work on me, because no doubt, there are some.

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Hello LW and thank you for the well written thoughts. The last portion of this sums up a very good point. We should respect those that paved the way and humanity in general, and yes I have been trying to catch myself and try not to use terms that do not reflect the person or people as a whole. Very awesome advice...I keep reading over it over and over. Self reflection

I think Pride is essential to one's esteem.
But what kind of pride are we talking here?

Here is one definition:

"a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance,
merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed
in bearing, conduct e.t.c"
- [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pride]

Here is another:

"pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging
to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself "
- [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pride]

The limitation I see with any Race pride or Pride anything of a strongly identified group
is the mass hysteria that results from being criticized or scrutinized in anyway,

especially if said group in recent history was marginalized or disenfranchised.

Pride in work, or duty done is gratifying and may be celebrated.

Righteous Indignation however, is something else, me thinks.

Odyssey said:

I think it all comes down to being externally considerate to all people regardless of their race, social status or education level and working on our own feelings of superiority/inferiority regarding the same.

The concept of race has been blown way out of proportion and is used as a way to divide people. The same goes for social status and education level.

I most certainly don't feel "proud" of Barack Obama or Condolizard Rice, but I do feel "proud" of MLK, not because he was black, but because he was extraordinary and worked for the betterment of humanity. And I don't feel proud to be black, nor do I feel shame or inferiority for being black. (Though coming to terms with programming regarding race is part of life's lessons).

So, regarding racial pride, I kinda don't get it. George Carlin summed it up well when he said:

"I could never understand ethnic or national pride. Because to me, pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill, it’s a f*cking genetic accident. You wouldn't say “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a predisposition for colon cancer.” So why the f*ck would you be proud to be Irish, or proud to be Italian, or American or anything?"

This thread contains an interesting discussion on race: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,31985.15.html

Click to expand...

Exactly. You have it and Carlin also. :)

When I see MLK I see a very intelligent and sensitive human being, beautiful man, not a black man. I love him for what he was, still is his spirit. Same with JFK. I love him not because he was a white man.

Ghettos are prisons, for people inside and people outside. I can understand a ghetto. Intellectually. But when I go inside it I just see a neighbor. A poor neighbor or a rich neighbor. You have "ghettos" for rich people also but they are not classified ghettos. We live in a big prison, of ideas, concepts, divisions. Now with the Charlie situation it will grow, you are or not against Muslims. Again, when I am with a Muslim I am not with a Muslim but with a human being. That's all.

There are two races in this planet: the humans and the non-humans and these later ones are the PTB. :)

I remember reading in the transcripts that some of the characteristics we inherited from imposed DNA restrictions by 4D STS include counterproductive pride and unilevel/unidimensional thinking. While trying to understand race and race relations, I find myself continuing to come to erroneous conclusions based on extremely unilevel concepts and keep resorting to binary thinking no matter how much I try to think multidimensionally. There are many complex factors involved regarding these issues. To tackle it efficiently requires study of multiple different fields and thinking hard about it while having knowledge and awareness of 3D STS limitations of thought, checking your own psychological/cognitive biases and attempting to transcend them while keeping objectivity intact. Not to mention social/cultural/memetic programming that has been imposed on us throughout our life by the PTB. I have a lot more to say on this issue as it is something that is on my mind quite a bit for various personal reasons. It is an uncomfortable topic to discuss openly but should be dealt with if we can gain better perspectives on the issue. I am still not completely at the "end" myself regarding my perceptions on this, but I am making progress and getting a better handle on it.

Martin Luther King was a pimp and a communist agent. He enjoyed abusing White prostitutes and engaged in drug-laden group orgies with his buddies. He was a charlatan and a plagiarist who had his hand held every step of the way by the Youknowwhos because he was a useful proxy soldier in their war against White, Christian America. Furthermore, there is no proof that he was a church man or that he was even especially literate. You and I have been fed lies since you were born about who the heroes and the good guys are.

As for the race question, well... I've traveled around a lot and I've found that other peoples do a pretty good job of pointing out what you are better than you yourself might be able to. Everywhere I've gone I either been referred to as "Foreigner" or "White Foreigner" or "White man" or just "Unbeliever" in some places. In time, I started realizing that these other peoples had a point.

I am what I am, and no amount of ideology or me insisting that I'm different by using totebags, wearing dreadlocks or sticking safety pins in my nose will ever change that. They have their people, their culture, their country and I have... well, I have nothing. It was sold away before I was even born by a generation too greedy, short-sighted and brain-addled from LSD to do something about it.

White people nowadays do everything they can to deny themselves and deny their heritage because they want to escape the racial blood libel being leveled at White people everywhere. This leads to a sort of "racial amnesia" where Whites and only Whites are encouraged to think in Universality terms while everyone else is encouraged to think in tribal terms. This is deliberate because tribes>individuals.

Now that we're all enlightened individuals, surrounded by hostile foreigners in the lands that are our birthright, and constantly repenting for the "sins" of our ancestors, we are easy meat for the hordes and their Youknowwhoish handlers. In fact, our own neighbors will denounce us for daring to speak up about the never-ending waves of invaders, because we've violated their voodoo cult of tolerance and equality. There is one cardinal sin in the White world: noticing that you have more in common with your neighbors than the people being imported in to replace you.

No one gets censored as heavily as the people who try to foster a healthy native racial pride and no one gets promoted as heavily as the people who attack White identity.

That should be food enough for thought about who runs the system, for what purpose and about the importance of racial pride.

PaleFace said:

Martin Luther King was a pimp and a communist agent. He enjoyed abusing White prostitutes and engaged in drug-laden group orgies with his buddies. He was a charlatan and a plagiarist

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Hi PaleFace, do you have any source for these claims? Other than a memo written by the same people who assassinated him. It's useful to keep in mind that there has been attempts throughout the years to tarnish the legacy of both JFK and MLK in a similar manner, to paint a picture of them as just some immoral and corrupted womanizers, and make people forget their role as a leaders who tried to truly connect humanity, in their own ways. There's an excellent documentary series called Evidence of Revision, that shines light to the content of their character and why they were a threat to the PTB.

Seppo Ilmarinen said:

Hi PaleFace, do you have any source for these claims? Other than a memo written by the same people who assassinated him. It's useful to keep in mind that there has been attempts throughout the years to tarnish the legacy of both JFK and MLK in a similar manner, to paint a picture of them as just some immoral and corrupted womanizers, and make people forget their role as a leaders who tried to truly connect humanity, in their own ways. There's an excellent documentary series called Evidence of Revision, that shines light to the content of their character and why they were a threat to the PTB.

Click to expand...

Regarding plagiarism, a website for plagiarism detection has apparently confirmed this:


Regarding sexual immorality, the source for these claims is indeed the FBI, however the transcripts were only released in 2019:


The recent date is relevant because it comes in a historical period in which MLK has been essentially deified, with the US government generally and the FBI specifically being quite committed to woke ideology. Had the claims originated back in the 60s, there'd be a better case for their having been fabricated with the intent of discrediting him. But then why release them now, and not decades ago?

Personally I have no difficulty believing that the wise, kind, principled civil rights paragon MLK is a media-created myth that had nothing to do with the man himself. This would hardly be the first time in recent history in which an objectively odious individual was held up as an ideal. In fact, that's so common that the default assumption should be that if the power elite are pointing to someone as a hero, one should generally assume the opposite.

His image has been extraordinarily useful to the power structure, as it has facilitated a decades-long assault on the collective sense of self of European peoples, inculcating a pervasive ethnomasochism that has made Western countries much easier for the banking elite to dominate. People ashamed not just of their history but of their very identity will have a hard time defending themselves. As one example: if Europeans "stole" the New World, as is constantly charged, then what grounds do they have to resist as that land is stolen from them by the banksters? If they carry ineradicable blood guilt for slavery, then what grounds do they have for resisting being enslaved in turn?

The term "ethnomasochism" is highly relevant in this thread. It's one thing to take pride in racial heritage and identity too far, to essentially deify it - that's a form of idolatry, and leads to a collective narcissism. White people have been made so desperately afraid of that extreme that they overcompensate in the other direction: any expression of pride is ruthlessly attacked as "racist", while instead whites wallow in collective guilt and self-hatred. Pleasure is found in ostentatious denigration of the group identity. This is clearly every bit as pathological as an overly-exaggerated sense of racial superiority.