Controversial Instagram Account About Pathology

solarmind said:

Thank you for reflecting Heimdallr, but what I can say from my life experience, that is not what I want, I don't want to be a voice of the bunch of emotional followers who will be my champion because I took up their cause and spread it. That is what I found very discomfortable - to be worshiped any how, even though due to my work so far I could play on that card many times, I usually refuse leadership in work if I found out that I am worshiped by others insted off been accepted as a member of the team with certain obligations and responsibilities. What I can say that every time I realize that, I step back. On the other side I am telling what I am aware off, and for sure I am not jalousie, that is another thing that I can say I am not. But maybe I am all of that but I still don't know. There can be other reason for me faliing into that, like for example "mother" protective feelings towards those who are week etc ... but in general it was a good glimpse of getting out of the focusing on the projection of my idea about her, and taking that as her real character. At least I am moving out of my assumptions, towards more objective perspective.

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It's likely that, as has been already pointed out by others, the above explanations of your behavior are merely narratives that you tell yourself to explain your behavior. And actually, in the context of people who you think will be upset by the video in question, there is nothing "weak" about them nor are they in need of protection. It would simply be you catering to the emotions of a group of people who are not thinking rationally. For what actually? Like I said, they don't need protection or to be mothered. So, perhaps the true motivation for you was the opposite of what you think your intentions are. Most often we do things that are the opposite of our supposed conscious intentions, because in actual fact they are just narratives that hide the true reason why we do things. Maybe you really DO want to be admired and be a leader to people, and maybe your catering to those who are easily swayed through emotional triggers is proof of that. It certainly appears that you choosing that group to rile up looks like an unconscious desire to appeal to a group of people who are not especially in control of their thoughts, emotions, etc., which would make them an easy mark for that part of you that wants to be seen in a certain way.

solarmind said:

This is not easy answer, how you will feel if you will know that for example someone that you know had miscarriage in that hospital, and that image on the instagram is probably that baby? Maybe offended is not right word, but will you be compassionate with that person, as that person can be offended if that will happen. And we can also by expirience know that most of them will be. As we know that most of the woman having miscarriage feel quite emotional, and that can be even more difficult for them to face with that reality that it ended up on the nstagram. Even though no one will know, but she can think that most of the people who knows her, knows that it is image of her miscarriage, and that can bring even more dificulties to her, more than valuable things to others.

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True, but nobody can do something without offending at least one person. She is not knocking on everybody's door to show them those pictures. She is not calling every woman who had a miscarriage. They choose to view this or not. Some may appreciate the fact that she validates them with what she actually said in the video.

Some people get angry when you post a picture of a dead child, massacred by war-mongering psychopaths. They claim that it is out of respect for the dead that we shouldn't not show pictures nor talk about it. Others think the opposite: that their death should be shown to the world, to make them aware of what is going on and motivate them to start doing something about it. The difference is, I think, in the intent. The whole discussion here started because you decided to subjectively ascribe many intentions to this woman, without actually taking different sides and analyzing the situation in a more detached way. You can find the "shocking" approach disgusting, but in the case of this woman, if it helps educate people, I see nothing wrong with it. People have the choice to turn it off. And it is not half as bad as the "nice" images people get shown that brainwash them. You are not arguing about lies vs. truth, which is what this forum is about. You are still defending your subjective view, and we'll go in circles unless and until you read the replies carefully and try to stop making other people conform to your (subjective) views.

Windmill knight said:

The video is an interview on her, so naturally, the interviewers find her interesting and they are the ones 'promoting' her in a sense, by focusing the attention of the viewer for the 11 minutes that the interview lasts. Perhaps this is what solarmind perceives as 'self-promoting'?

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OKay, I can see now that my schock by the idea how anyone can do that, blocked me to see that the video production can be actually designed by the producer and director on a way that will be stylish and promotional for the magazine produciton capacity.

I actually assumed she is also a production designer for the video interview what is probably not the case. So all the stylish bits can be additional wishes from director or producer to make it more stylish and less "bloody and flashy". Heck it is my job and I didn't even think it can be the reason why it is so well done, that it is actually promotion of the web magazine production capacities. I was just dive into idea that she always get so well prepared, turned on camera and filming her self, before she is going to take a photo. Well mind is a strange machine ... Well thank you for getting into conversation, even though it is relay a small bit, but helping me a lot to see my pitfalls and projections of things that didn't realy happen.

Is it enough just to believe what she said? How we can see the hidden truth behind the "nice" image and talk? And opposite, how we can stop projecting negative experiences and thoughts on person or happening, if they are not intended to be negative by the objective context presented?

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That takes a lot of observation and time. You can't judge from the get go.

I have to wonder, having met you in person, if some of this isn't related to your own situation. I hope you don't take this wrong, but YOU do a lot of self-promoting. You talk and talk about YOUR work, YOUR videos, etc. You can be so absorbed in your own ideas that you can speak for a looong time without even seeming to care whether somebody is listening or not. You don't really talk with people but AT people. But that doesn't mean that we'll judge you and think you are psychopathic or whatever you are calling this woman. Ok, you don't do "shocking" stuff, maybe, but the rest stands. That's her job. She likes sharing it. Notice that she actually teaches some things in the video itself. It's not all about her. What is so bothersome about it? Is it that because she is successful, you got annoyed? It is because it contradicts your beliefs about what "educational videos" should be about? Maybe subconsciously you'd like to be a bit more like her, and her daring is what made you upset? Just a few possibilities.

solarmind said:

Heimdallr said:

So what you're basically saying above is that instead of thinking and feeling how YOU really feel, that you take a stance that will endear yourself to a group of people. I guess you need to ask yourself if you do that not because you inherently agree with such a stance but because you want a group of people to stand behind you, a bunch of emotional followers who will be your champion because you took up their cause and spread it. That's kinda how it appears to me, and honestly solarmind, that is more self-promotion than what this poor woman who you decided was narcissistic and pathological ever did. It's rather ironic that you would get so emotionally worked up about someone, in your eyes, engaging in self-promotion while what you have described above is doing exactly that, and gaining a following of mindless sheep (a term implied in your description above). If you are sincere in wanting to engage in the Work as it is done here, you may want to examine this apparent repeated behavior and why you continually fall into these kinds of situations. It's likely that your aversion to what you considered self-promotion was due to some sort of misguided jealousy towards the woman in the video.

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Thank you for reflecting Heimdallr, but what I can say from my life experience, that is not what I want, I don't want to be a voice of the bunch of emotional followers who will be my champion because I took up their cause and spread it. That is what I found very discomfortable - to be worshiped any how, even though due to my work so far I could play on that card many times, I usually refuse leadership in work if I found out that I am worshiped by others insted off been accepted as a member of the team with certain obligations and responsibilities. What I can say that every time I realize that, I step back. On the other side I am telling what I am aware off, and for sure I am not jalousie, that is another thing that I can say I am not. But maybe I am all of that but I still don't know. There can be other reason for me faliing into that, like for example "mother" protective feelings towards those who are week etc ... but in general it was a good glimpse of getting out of the focusing on the projection of my idea about her, and taking that as her real character. At least I am moving out of my assumptions, towards more objective perspective.

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This is interesting, because basically you are not agreeing (you think you aren't), but you are actually proving Heimdallr right. Maybe you were upset because that woman dares do what you consider "bad", but subconsciously would like to be able to do? Jaelousy can take many forms. For example, we decide something is bad (although we secretly would like to do it), then when we see somebody else do it, we get upset and call them "evil". If we were actually ok with our decision, we wouldn't be upset about others doing what they do. But you were. So, it may be worth it for you to look into that possibility.

Heimdallr said:

solarmind said:

Thank you for reflecting Heimdallr, but what I can say from my life experience, that is not what I want, I don't want to be a voice of the bunch of emotional followers who will be my champion because I took up their cause and spread it. That is what I found very discomfortable - to be worshiped any how, even though due to my work so far I could play on that card many times, I usually refuse leadership in work if I found out that I am worshiped by others insted off been accepted as a member of the team with certain obligations and responsibilities. What I can say that every time I realize that, I step back. On the other side I am telling what I am aware off, and for sure I am not jalousie, that is another thing that I can say I am not. But maybe I am all of that but I still don't know. There can be other reason for me faliing into that, like for example "mother" protective feelings towards those who are week etc ... but in general it was a good glimpse of getting out of the focusing on the projection of my idea about her, and taking that as her real character. At least I am moving out of my assumptions, towards more objective perspective.

Click to expand...

It's likely that, as has been already pointed out by others, the above explanations of your behavior are merely narratives that you tell yourself to explain your behavior. And actually, in the context of people who you think will be upset by the video in question, there is nothing "weak" about them nor are they in need of protection. It would simply be you catering to the emotions of a group of people who are not thinking rationally. For what actually? Like I said, they don't need protection or to be mothered. So, perhaps the true motivation for you was the opposite of what you think your intentions are. Most often we do things that are the opposite of our supposed conscious intentions, because in actual fact they are just narratives that hide the true reason why we do things. Maybe you really DO want to be admired and be a leader to people, and maybe your catering to those who are easily swayed through emotional triggers is proof of that. It certainly appears that you choosing that group to rile up looks like an unconscious desire to appeal to a group of people who are not especially in control of their thoughts, emotions, etc., which would make them an easy mark for that part of you that wants to be seen in a certain way.

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And how we can found out what is the real motivation for her, just from what she said? Same here, how can you be sure that your interpretation of my impressions and experiences is the right one? We can say that it can be few possible options, but I don't understand how we can here come to straight forward conclusion? I know that I have a leadership abilities and there is nothing wrong with that, and from that experience I watched many colleagues how they are doing exactly what you explaining, and I always refused to be that kind of a "leader". I am very offten asked to give opinions in media about some controversial things, as you know, people some time needs to hear the opinions of those they respect, to be able to form their own ... but again I don't really like to use that, as I don't like to be the one who is forming public opinion, just to build up my foundation on that popularity. I respect that my opinion is respected, but it is foundation of my work, not the oposit. So I found that this my impulse probably coming form that my experience to work with people and as a director to be on the front line to protect them from abuse and misunderstanding of others. But yes sure it can all be totally opposite ... but how I can know that, and if I want to change that, how I can do that?

solarmind said:

This is not easy answer, how you will feel if you will know that for example someone that you know had miscarriage in that hospital, and that image on the instagram is probably that baby?

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That is a question that is based on an unprovable hypothesis. The whole discussion has been based on a hypothesis that has been presented as true or likely true. It's sort of frustrating (to me anyway) to engage in those kinds of "what if" discussions. I don't think it achieves anything.

To answer you question anyway though, I wouldn't be looking at the image in the first place because if someone I knew had miscarried I wouldn't be searching for an image of the fetus on the internet.

If I did happen across it, I couldn't know for sure which fetus it was, so I wouldn't give it any more thought.

If for some strange reason I was gripped by an immoderate determination to be offended by the very idea that the fetus, had it gestated and lived, could possibly have become known to me as a result of my association with its mother, I would complain, perhaps giving that as the reason for my offense, because certainly I wouldn't be complaining on behalf of the mother because I certainly would not have been so insensitive as to inform her about it just so I could feel self-righteous by complaining.

But, as I said, all of this is so much pointless hypothesizing because I would never be offended by such a thing in the first place, because I don't have time to be offended by an image of a dead fetus, its mother known to me or not, because there are fully grown alive people being murdered every day who are in more need of consideration and help than a dead fetus. :(

Laura said:

solarmind said:

Perceval said:

solarmind said:

in order to not get angry as no one is agreeing with me, but more to get more understanding and peaceful in ability to accept different point of view.

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The problem is that what you and Tracy Anne said was not a valid point of view because it was a straw man argument. You were saying that the images were "disrespectful", but no one is being disrespected by these images because the identities of the former owners of the body parts are not revealed. Don't you think it's a bit silly for you to feel offended on behalf of someone else when it is not even possible for that someone else to be offended?

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This is not easy answer, how you will feel if you will know that for example someone that you know had miscarriage in that hospital, and that image on the instagram is probably that baby? Maybe offended is not right word, but will you be compassionate with that person, as that person can be offended if that will happen. And we can also by expirience know that most of them will be. As we know that most of the woman having miscarriage feel quite emotional, and that can be even more difficult for them to face with that reality that it ended up on the nstagram. Even though no one will know, but she can think that most of the people who knows her, knows that it is image of her miscarriage, and that can bring even more dificulties to her, more than valuable things to others.

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Solarmind, you are just digging yourself in deeper and deeper. Your need to be right is astounding and the real narcissistic element of this thread. All you are doing is creating more and more elaborate narratives to exculpate yourself. "I'm just doing it for YOUUUUuuuuu..."

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I have to say I don't understand this? Where I am diging my self deepre? In misunderstaning of her? I am just folowing the others suggestions to get out of the idea that she is doing something wrong. And as I can see within my thoughts I do see it now differently, and why I was upset ... and I can see what I was doing wrong from the starting point ...

solarmind said:

And how we can found out what is the real motivation for her, just from what she said?

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She's not here on this forum, claiming to want to work on herself and understand her machine. You are. It's interesting that in discussing your motivations/behavior you decide to deflect away from them above. It's a common strategy by the predator's mind.

[quote author=solarmind] Same here, how can you be sure that your interpretation of my impressions and experiences is the right one? [/quote]

I'm not sure, I'm sharing observations based on what you have written and your reaction to this women's video. If you want to reassure yourself that everything I have written is wrong, go right ahead. But it will not be in service of the part of you that supposedly wants to become more aware of your mechanical nature.

[quote author=solarmind] We can say that it can be few possible options, but I don't understand how we can here come to straight forward conclusion? [/quote]

I don't believe anyone has said anything that is a "straight forward conclusion". All that's being asked is that you consider the possibility that you don't see your true intentions and therefore cannot see yourself objectively. It seems like you are unwilling to do that, based on your responses.

[quote author=solarmind] I know that I have a leadership abilities and there is nothing wrong with that, and from that experience I watched many colleagues how they are doing exactly what you explaining, and I always refused to be that kind of a "leader". I am very offten asked to give opinions in media about some controversial things, as you know, people some time needs to hear the opinions of those they respect, to be able to form their own ... but again I don't really like to use that, as I don't like to be the one who is forming public opinion, just to build up my foundation on that popularity. I respect that my opinion is respected, but it is foundation of my work, not the oposit. So I found that this my impulse probably coming form that my experience to work with people and as a director to be on the front line to protect them from abuse and misunderstanding of others. But yes sure it can all be totally opposite ... but how I can know that, and if I want to change that, how I can do that?
[/quote]

First thing would be to stop fighting the urge to be right and to continue to spin narratives to defend that need to be right.

solarmind said:

And how we can found out what is the real motivation for her, just from what she said?

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Why are you so worried about HER when it is you that has the issue here?

We have said repeatedly that we cannot be sure, we can only assess what is shown and based on LONG experience, it does not at all look like what you have presented.

solarmind said:

Same here, how can you be sure that your interpretation of my impressions and experiences is the right one? We can say that it can be few possible options, but I don't understand how we can here come to straight forward conclusion?

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Because we have YEARS of experience and a network.

solarmind said:

I know that I have a leadership abilities and there is nothing wrong with that, and from that experience I watched many colleagues how they are doing exactly what you explaining, and I always refused to be that kind of a "leader". I am very offten asked to give opinions in media about some controversial things, as you know, people some time needs to hear the opinions of those they respect, to be able to form their own ... but again I don't really like to use that, as I don't like to be the one who is forming public opinion, just to build up my foundation on that popularity. I respect that my opinion is respected, but it is foundation of my work, not the oposit. So I found that this my impulse probably coming form that my experience to work with people and as a director to be on the front line to protect them from abuse and misunderstanding of others. But yes sure it can all be totally opposite ... but how I can know that, and if I want to change that, how I can do that?

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Here again it is all about you.

Perceval said:

But, as I said, all of this is so much pointless hypothesizing because I would never be offended by such a thing in the first place, because I don't have time to be offended by an image of a dead fetus, its mother known to me or not, because there are fully grown alive people being murdered every day who are in more need of consideration and help than a dead fetus. :(

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Yes, I agree that we are doing a big issue around realy small thing comparing to the whole world around us. Thank you for guiding the possible way of looking at things as shocking perspective do helped to see where I did first projection that leaded to demonizing her ...

solarmind said:

I have to say I don't understand this? Where I am diging my self deepre? In misunderstaning of her? I am just folowing the others suggestions to get out of the idea that she is doing something wrong. And as I can see within my thoughts I do see it now differently, and why I was upset ... and I can see what I was doing wrong from the starting point ...

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Because you have been spending way too much time on trivialities and way too little on work on the self, you have no idea what your machine is doing. Let me just say that you are bouncing from buffer to buffer (Gurdjieff) and System 2 is creating narrative after narrative to make System 1 feel better (Kahnemann and Wilson).

For those who have done The Work and studied the material of this online school - NOT a chat board where you can post anything you like to get a reaction - what you are doing is totally transparent.

It has been suggested to you that you spend some time in the cognitive science board; allow me to reiterate that suggestion.

Solarmind, don't you think it is interesting that you had such a reaction to this video and woman, and that you were so sure of your reasons for having that reaction, and yet, after some discussion, you start to realise that you really didn't know the REAL reason for that reaction? Shouldn't that disturb you a bit, or even a lot? Maybe more than pictures of body parts? I mean, it should be a bit shocking to realise that we don't know our own motivations and that we make up all sorts of reasons and narratives that have nothing to do with the REAL motivation.

As Laura said, you might find the cognitive science section that deals with this topic interesting.

Laura said:

Because we have YEARS of experience and a network.

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Yes I know that, this is why I asked about this case here, to see what you think, is it really that bad as I was thinking, as I built trust to your experience and opinion on things based on that.

But what is contradictory is that you putting yours experience to see things that are not explicitly shown, to be trustful and trustworthy, but do anyone else can have experience, and build his opinion upon that too?

I know that in those things, comparing to anyone here, my expirience in that is 0%.

Laura said:

Here again it is all about you.

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But it turned out to be about me - as you think she is not like I see her, so ok, that is not what you doubt, but most of you have been questioning my thoughts on her, and after me asking how I can see what you saying about her is right, some guided me to get out of that non objective perspective, so how can I relate to that than by answering like me?

If I think something and I f I am asked to observe or explain how I see it or feel it, how can I relate to that, than saying it I do that, I see that, I expirience that?

Perceval said:

Solarmind, don't you think it is interesting that you had such a reaction to this video and woman, and that you were so sure of your reasons for having that reaction, and yet, after some discussion, you start to realise that you really didn't know the REAL reason for that reaction? Shouldn't that disturb you a bit, or even a lot? Maybe more than pictures of body parts? I mean, it should be a bit shocking to realise that we don't know our own motivations and that we make up all sorts of reasons and narratives that have nothing to do with the REAL motivation.

As Laura said, you might find the cognitive science section that deals with this topic interesting.

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Yes that is disturbing to me, the idea that we are not aware of the sources of our own motivaitons and reactions, and without getting into this conversation I will not be aware of that, and I am thankfull for all of you to help me to see that. For sure I will check out recommended titles form cognitive section.

Laura said:

Because you have been spending way too much time on trivialities and way too little on work on the self, you have no idea what your machine is doing. Let me just say that you are bouncing from buffer to buffer (Gurdjieff) and System 2 is creating narrative after narrative to make System 1 feel better (Kahnemann and Wilson).

For those who have done The Work and studied the material of this online school - NOT a chat board where you can post anything you like to get a reaction - what you are doing is totally transparent.

It has been suggested to you that you spend some time in the cognitive science board; allow me to reiterate that suggestion.

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:) .. yes I do bouncing yet and traying to find a way to focus on Work ... I realy do bounce like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REU0KSqNYgA&feature=youtu.be