No more internet

axj said:
There is also a different kind of desire - heartfelt desires that come from your Higher Self. It is actually one of the primary inner guidance systems and following these deep desires always results in fulfillment, growth and an increase in knowledge.

Hi axj,

What you have expressed above is precisely what I wish to convey as well.

It was that heartfelt desire (to know) that first led Laura to the C's (or the C's to Laura) ... against all odds. Without that initial desire (or intention powerfully focused), none of what we have today would exist.

That desire (Bodhicitta if you like) coming from the inner self--is a necessary first step. Lacking this would simply mean nothing else happens.

On a practical basis, I believe that same principle applies to conduit access. You need an initiating impetus-- an intentional request. And you need to truly believe in it. The admission process I think is mutual--not unilateral. Both sides interact, in the asking and in the granting. (There's no better example of this than in the session mechanics themselves.)

If this is true, it may be wise to incorporate something similar within one's everyday Work mindset. And perhaps this is why the C's have stressed faith rather pointedly in recent sessions. But I could be wrong (especially in my recommendation.)

FWIW.
 
sitting said:
If this is true, it may be wise to incorporate something similar within one's everyday Work mindset. And perhaps this is why the C's have stressed faith rather pointedly in recent sessions. But I could be wrong (especially in my recommendation.)

Yes, asking for help from the Higher Self ("soul") is very beneficial.

On the topic of pain, I would like to mention that one major block I had to overcome was the almost obsessive avoidance of feeling emotional pain. It was only after I allowed myself to open up to it fully that the underlying causes of that pain could be processed and healed.
 
obyvatel said:
[quote author=Red Star]
It is only my opinion... but:
......

Some mishmash of ideas here.

As axj and Psalehesost pointed out, experience shows pain precedes understanding. Of course there can be pain without any understanding. To say if we had the correct perception then there wouldn't be pain is putting the cart before the horse.

And since you chose to illustrate your opinion with Zen stories, per my understanding, in a traditional Zen setting, these opinions about pain would likely meet with the master's stick or other similar devices.
[/quote]

These Zen stories are only examples I've used to express two ideas. I could have used extracts from Mahabharata, from Sartre's works, Sufi teachings, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Rambo III or whatever.

I am not saying there is not physical pain. Of course there is, it is evident.

Maybe I have not been very clear and you have not understood me. I was refering to mental pain, to the idea that there must be pain to gain, to the idea that, in order to learn, we must work very hard, to the idea that our feelings will hurt us in our quest for the light because the predator's mind will try to retake control over us and other people will be used by the forces of darkness against us.

If we think that to feel this pain is the only way, what do you think we are going to find in our lives?

That, in my opinion, is the way for those who don't know how to control their mind. These thoughts can appear in any moment but it is in you the free will of feeding them with your attention or not.

Much people in this forum think Gurdjieff teachings are important. Well, remember what Gurdjieff said about not seeing the exit door or believing there is one door only.

Think for a moment in little Peter at the school... It is Mathematics time, the teacher gives him a problem to solve, a system of linear equations...

If Peter doesn't like Mathematics, he will feel that this work is painful, he will think it is a pain in the neck.

But if Peter, even not understanding Mathematics, thinks this problem is a good opportunity to learn, then he will work in it with joy, because the understanding of the problem (experience) will allow him to find the solution (knowledge) and he will be able to resolve similar problems in the future (to apply the knowledge).

So, it is not a problem of hard work. It is a problem of attitude, a problem of how you face the reality.

When I have said that to REALIZE you are the Prime Creator is the key I was not being simplistic. There is a lot of people in this forum who think we are the Prime Creator. But, how many people REALIZE about it?

That is the difference and it is one of the most difficult things to achieve. Not because it is inherently hard, but because it is necessary the will to find the way to truly understand this by ourselves.

We can read Castaneda, Mouravieff, Parmenides, Bhagavad Gita, Lankavatara Sutra... but until we don't decide to find the way to truly understand we are the Prime Creator, we will not be able to REALIZE about it. Yes, we can believe in it, but this is not the same.

Once we realize about it, then the "essential goal" of the "true mind" which Castaneda talked about will be strategically aligned. This is, the most important goal of all: To be unified "again", to achieve 7th Density (in Cassiopaean terms). This is the most important thing of all and the ultimate goal and everything that happens or must be decided between "now" and that other "moment" is in function of this goal.

Only when our "essential goal" is aligned with the unification we can have faith. Until then, we are only, if you will permit the Cassiopaean phrase, "Lost lambs beying in the knight".

And please, do not think I'm talking about sit and meditate and forget about the physical world and the events that are happening. That is not necessary in order to align our "essential goal" and act conform to it in every decision we take.
 
Red Star said:
These Zen stories are only examples I've used to express two ideas. I could have used extracts from Mahabharata, from Sartre's works, Sufi teachings, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Rambo III or whatever.

I am not saying there is not physical pain. Of course there is, it is evident.

Maybe I have not been very clear and you have not understood me.
could it be?
Red Star said:
I was refering to mental pain, to the idea that there must be pain to gain, to the idea that, in order to learn, we must work very hard, to the idea that our feelings will hurt us in our quest for the light because the predator's mind will try to retake control over us and other people will be used by the forces of darkness against us.

If we think that to feel this pain is the only way, what do you think we are going to find in our lives?

That, in my opinion, is the way for those who don't know how to control their mind.
I can tell you, after reading serious wave, The Secret History, the attacks on Laura,be reading for a while, here in the forum, without participating, until then understood what the phrase that Laura has mentioned on many occasions means, "In this universe, there is no free breakfast, if you think that if there are, you are the next breakfast, "I can see my life some years back, and the difference compared to what it is today, and believe me the difference is great, and I checked, the pain is necessary, especially for the development of being, if you are in the idea of having in mind, "I control my mind", the chances of deception, to yourself, are quite high.
 
Red Star said:
Maybe I have not been very clear and you have not understood me. I was refering to mental pain, to the idea that there must be pain to gain, to the idea that, in order to learn, we must work very hard, to the idea that our feelings will hurt us in our quest for the light because the predator's mind will try to retake control over us and other people will be used by the forces of darkness against us.

In order to learn in a way that builds understanding, one needs to work. How hard - depends on the environment, opportunities, genetic makeup etc. It is just experience that understanding comes with suffering of a certain kind - called conscious suffering. It is not like going out of the way to court pain and suffering. Masochism is a psychological pathology. Far more common than masochism though is avoidance of suffering and the belief that "there is free lunch". It is in fashion in new age circles.

[quote author=Red Star]
If we think that to feel this pain is the only way, what do you think we are going to find in our lives?
[/quote]

Law of attraction? It is a new age twist. What anyone is going to find in his life is what he has put into it and what the environmental influences have shaped.

Again, "feeling pain is the only way" is a twist. It is about having the courage to accept what comes one's way in the pursuit of truth and objective reality.

[quote author=Red Star]
That, in my opinion, is the way for those who don't know how to control their mind. These thoughts can appear in any moment but it is in you the free will of feeding them with your attention or not.
[/quote]

And how many can claim that they can "control their mind"? Putting the cart before the horse.

[quote author=Red Star]
Much people in this forum think Gurdjieff teachings are important. Well, remember what Gurdjieff said about not seeing the exit door or believing there is one door only.
[/quote]

Gurdjieff had quite a few terms which would be applicable here in my opinion. None of them are flattering.

[quote author=Red Star]
When I have said that to REALIZE you are the Prime Creator is the key I was not being simplistic. There is a lot of people in this forum who think we are the Prime Creator. But, how many people REALIZE about it?
[/quote]

I do not fall into the category of people who believe they are the Prime Creator. Nor do I have any drive to realize it.

[quote author=Red Star]
We can read Castaneda, Mouravieff, Parmenides, Bhagavad Gita, Lankavatara Sutra... but until we don't decide to find the way to truly understand we are the Prime Creator, we will not be able to REALIZE about it. Yes, we can believe in it, but this is not the same.
[/quote]

Have you read Illion's "Darkness Over Tibet"? The interesting parts are referred to in the Wave.
http://cassiopaea.org/2012/03/26/darkness-over-tibet-2/

[quote author=Red Star]
Once we realize about it, then the "essential goal" of the "true mind" which Castaneda talked about will be strategically aligned. This is, the most important goal of all: To be unified "again", to achieve 7th Density (in Cassiopaean terms). This is the most important thing of all and the ultimate goal and everything that happens or must be decided between "now" and that other "moment" is in function of this goal.

Only when our "essential goal" is aligned with the unification we can have faith. Until then, we are only, if you will permit the Cassiopaean phrase, "Lost lambs beying in the knight".
[/quote]

To achieve 7th density from 3rd level? And you misquote the C's to prove this point?

You write
[quote author=Red Star]
These Zen stories are only examples I've used to express two ideas. I could have used extracts from Mahabharata, from Sartre's works, Sufi teachings, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Rambo III or whatever.
...........................
We can read Castaneda, Mouravieff, Parmenides, Bhagavad Gita, Lankavatara Sutra...
[/quote]

You throw out names like candy. You twist and distort sources, picking up phrases from here and there and then kluge them together to justify your "point" or "opinion". It is really concerning that you think you are capable of interpreting the C's and presenting it to others - as you have stated in another thread.
 
riclapaz said:
I can tell you, after reading serious wave, The Secret History, the attacks on Laura,be reading for a while, here in the forum, without participating, until then understood what the phrase that Laura has mentioned on many occasions means, "In this universe, there is no free breakfast, if you think that if there are, you are the next breakfast, "I can see my life some years back, and the difference compared to what it is today, and believe me the difference is great, and I checked, the pain is necessary, especially for the development of being, if you are in the idea of having in mind, "I control my mind", the chances of deception, to yourself, are quite high.

If you believe it is necessary, it will be necessary because you are limiting yourself to these options only, you close the doors to other options. This means that you will not search other paths/ways/methods, because you think they don't exist, so never you will find an alternative. There are many people and everyone has their own lessons.

May the Force be with you my friend.
 
obyvatel said:
Again, "feeling pain is the only way" is a twist. It is about having the courage to accept what comes one's way in the pursuit of truth and objective reality.

Aha, this is other thing completely different! (I referred to this when I quoted the Zen story "Without Fear").

obyvatel said:
I do not fall into the category of people who believe they are the Prime Creator. Nor do I have any drive to realize it.

In this case, honestly, I don't think our conversation can lead anywhere.

obyvatel said:
To achieve 7th density from 3rd level? And you misquote the C's to prove this point?

I have not said that. Read carefully: "ultimate".

obyvatel said:
You throw out names like candy. You twist and distort sources, picking up phrases from here and there and then kluge them together to justify your "point" or "opinion". It is really concerning that you think you are capable of interpreting the C's and presenting it to others - as you have stated in another thread.

It is your point of view.

Regarding the Cassiopaean Transcripts abstract, I think all have been said already, you can re-read it if you want.

For your peace of mind I will inform you that I will not post the abstract in this forum because it is clear the administrators don't want this and I am not here to irritate you guys.

It is a private project which, in my opinion, can help as "index" or "table of contents". As it is private, I will show it privately to those who I know that are interested. And, of course, this is completely legal, because I'm not distributing your material without consent, nor I am even using quotations, only displaying references. Example: transcript 128
 
[quote author=Red Star]
[quote author=obyvatel]
You throw out names like candy. You twist and distort sources, picking up phrases from here and there and then kluge them together to justify your "point" or "opinion". It is really concerning that you think you are capable of interpreting the C's and presenting it to others - as you have stated in another thread.
[/quote]

It is your point of view.

Regarding the Cassiopaean Transcripts abstract, I think all have been said already, you can re-read it if you want.

For your peace of mind I will inform you that I will not post the abstract in this forum because it is clear the administrators don't want this and I am not here to irritate you guys.

It is a private project which, in my opinion, can help as "index" or "table of contents". As it is private, I will show it privately to those who I know that are interested. And, of course, this is completely legal, because I'm not distributing your material without consent, nor I am even using quotations, only displaying references. Example: transcript 128
[/quote]

There is legality and there is morality and integrity. The originator of the material, Laura, clearly expressed that you are distorting the material. But of course it is just her "point of view" while yours is different - right?

[quote author=Red Star]
In this case, honestly, I don't think our conversation can lead anywhere.
[/quote]

It has been revealing - from my point of view. It is yet another case of disinformation - a spin introducing lies and distortions of otherwise valuable material to lead people astray. Hopefully those reading the discussion have gained something as well.

As far as you are concerned, no I do not think this conversation can lead anywhere. Your cup seems full and as that Zen story suggests, tea poured into a full cup just overflows.
 
obyvatel said:
There is legality and there is morality and integrity. The originator of the material, Laura, clearly expressed that you are distorting the material. But of course it is just her "point of view" while yours is different - right?

Before passing judgment, it wouldn't be better to see the finished work? What kind of objectivity can be achieved without examining the object of judgement?

To say "this work is going to be bad because is not written by us" is not objective, is a presumption.

If the administrators of this forum think I have done something bad, or I have violated the norms, or I am a conscious or unconscious agent driven by STS 3D or 4D forces, or I am trying to deceive people, or I am being "covertly antagonistic", please, ban me, and I promise I will not register again, nor I will enter here any more.
 
hello all,

I hope everyone is having a good day.

Keep on believing in ourselves and having faith each and every day.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions Red Star.

I am always open to new ideas, keeping open mind.

Take care and have Fun also :)
 
Hindsight Man said:
How does one reconcile the fact that the forum simply isn't going to be here in the future?I tried to formulate this question better,but what course of action should be taken in such a scenario?After all,i sometimes spend hours on here just reading and learning and aside from this forum and various books,I can't really see myself having such an easily accessible wealth of knowledge in the future,post collapse (provided i survive that is).I get that we're supposed to carry on with The Work regardless of circumstances,unless circumstances are such that they don't allow for the work,in which case we'd need to do our best to get out of them until we can Work again,but what could I actually DO to get in touch or network or something if internet and/or electricity simply aren't there anymore?Does one just begin to look for like minded individuals who are at or nearby The Work and team up and help them or what? :/

Hi Hingsight Man,

I think all of us have entertained this thought at least a few times, you're not alone. It can be scary thought for sure, but one that can be remedied with a little faith. It's hard to know what the future will bring, and best to stay open to the possibilities.

Whenever that thought enters my mind, I remind myself that the present moment is where I am, and the only thing to do is the next right thing. It brings me back to a perspective that I'm able to DO something in. OSIT. ;)

The part I bolded in your quote is something that stuck out to me. As far as I understand, all we do is the Work. The Work is in the moments of fruitfulness and despair. It's when we don't feel like Working, and when we feel so connected to it. I don't think it comes and goes... the opportunities for Work that is. "Getting out of the circumstances" as you said, is Work, too -- but only if you're making the conscious efforts.
 
Katie Jo said:
Whenever that thought enters my mind, I remind myself that the present moment is where I am, and the only thing to do is the next right thing. It brings me back to a perspective that I'm able to DO something in. OSIT. ;)

I agree 100% with you.
 
Hi Hingsight Man,

I think all of us have entertained this thought at least a few times, you're not alone. It can be scary thought for sure, but one that can be remedied with a little faith. It's hard to know what the future will bring, and best to stay open to the possibilities.

Whenever that thought enters my mind, I remind myself that the present moment is where I am, and the only thing to do is the next right thing. It brings me back to a perspective that I'm able to DO something in. OSIT. ;)

The part I bolded in your quote is something that stuck out to me. As far as I understand, all we do is the Work. The Work is in the moments of fruitfulness and despair. It's when we don't feel like Working, and when we feel so connected to it. I don't think it comes and goes... the opportunities for Work that is. "Getting out of the circumstances" as you said, is Work, too -- but only if you're making the conscious efforts.


Yeah,it seems that the best time to Work is when you don't want to,as it produces the most friction in the machine.Thanks for the tip.
 
Psalehesost said:
Combine an animal evolutionary heritage with mental "tricks" for achieving a sense of peace and bliss, and you get Zen, a focus on oneness, etc. In short, it's the lowest in us imagining that it has reached the highest. Or so I think.

Hi there,

I would say if you had done serious study of the subject, then your conclusion is most unusual.
And if you had not done such a study, then your remarks are somewhat careless. FWIW.
 
Red Star said:
I am not saying there is not physical pain. Of course there is, it is evident.

Maybe I have not been very clear and you have not understood me. I was refering to mental pain,

What exactly is mental pain? Do you mean negative mental chatter that makes us suffer emotionally? From my experience, the pain itself is mostly on the emotional level - not mental.

Red Star said:
the idea that there must be pain to gain,

There does not always have to be pain to "gain", but sometimes there is.

Red Star said:
the idea that, in order to learn, we must work very hard,

Some learning (growth) comes easy, at other times it can be very difficult.

Red Star said:
to the idea that our feelings will hurt us in our quest for the light

Our feelings cannot hurt us, but the emotional wounding and trauma that we all carry is painful - and in order to heal emotionally, it is necessary to open up to these hurt places in oneself.

Red Star said:
If we think that to feel this pain is the only way, what do you think we are going to find in our lives?

Pain is not the only way, but for those doing the Work it cannot be avoided.

Red Star said:
That, in my opinion, is the way for those who don't know how to control their mind. These thoughts can appear in any moment but it is in you the free will of feeding them with your attention or not.

The Work is done not just on the mind, but also on the emotional level - and that is where the majority of the pain that needs to be faced and healed resides.
 
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