Is my family psychopathic?

wondering2

The Force is Strong With This One
Hello everyone,

I am writing here because I believe that there are psychopathic people in my family, something which has been evident for years, and I would like your comments and opinions on this matter. This is one of the few forums where I believe I can discuss this matter openly and hopefully receive some good insights.

My family has been rather weird acting for ever since I can remember. I could really start from anyone since my home has pretty much always been a madhouse. I am referring to my father, mother and sister. I understand that it is not possible to make medical diagnosis via an internet forum, but particularly my father refuses to go to a doctor and has always claimed he is fine and healthy and everyone else is crazy. All the odd behaviour I have had to put up with over the years has built up, and I need some kind of answer for this. Perhaps some member has similar experiences or may see something in the below behaviour. I lived with them continuously since I was young until the age of 20, and then I have been away for many years until meeting them recently.

I believe that my father has narcissistic personality disorder, or at least something like paranoid personality disorder. It is very likely that he is a psychopath but I cannot confirm this.
- The first weird characteristic he has is secrecy. Everything in the family is secret. He would never speak about what happened yesterday, the day before, who did something... everything is all secret. Secrecy about something that other family members did, secrecy about what he did, secrecy about family matters, and particularly about anything that anyone else did. He would claim that he never spoke about things "because he did not want to hurt us."
- He has always been completely emotionally detached from me. He would, for example, ask about something that happened yesterday. Say if we spoke about an event, he would not come the next day and say "How did that go?".
- He also appears completely emotionally dead. Something very shocking may happen and he will be like "ok". I remember for example one time I had the first car crash. I returned home and I told the story of what happened. He said "ok" and then the next day he just bought a new car. He never spoke about it, never asked for reasons, was not upset. Unbelievably untouched.
- He constantly makes pity plays. He plays the poor person to others, as if we should feel sorry for him.
- If for any reason someon defies what he says, he makes out that they are crazy. He feels he is never wrong, he never has done anything wrong, and he has absolutely no responsibility for anything, particularly his behaviour. If he says things which are simply wrong, illogical, nonsense, lies, irrelevant, and someone calls this out, he will get angry with them and insist that this is how it is and that they are wrong, and try to then crazymake them and create a personal battle, in which he is convinced he is right.
- Since at least 20 years row we would be living in the same house like strangers. He just won't initiate any conversation with me. He would not ask for an opinion on anything, no help with anything, no favours for anything, nothing at all. It is as if no one else is there.
- While I was younger and we happened to speak more sometimes - I would initiate the conversation - it would be impossible to make any kind of conversation following logic. He simply wants to say his opinion and if rejected on anything at all, he will say "No" and then refuse to speak to me.
- If asked about his behaviour, he will swear that he loves our family SOOOO much, that he thinks about us 24/7, that he has nothing else in his head, to such an extreme where it is worse than a theatre act. His claims are so ridiculous, given of course that he tells them to me in person.
- In front of other people he will put on a show to pretend how great he is. He will interrupt a conversation if I speak, just to say that he has done the same thing I am about so speak about but better and perfect, the best in the world.
- He has no hobbies other than spending all his time manically solving crossword puzzles for years and years and years. He has never been into sport. He is apparently sexually bad. He never had girlfriends or any success with women. He has no close friends who visit him.
- He never spoke about his past, his life story, where he went to school, where he went to University, why he got this paritcular job, his friends, memories of anything at all, where he met my mother, how they met etc. All the family story is just missing because it was never spoken about. It is as if it all never happened.
- For the last 15 years he doesn't go on holiday and hardly leaves the house. Pretty much since he retired 20 years ago he would constantly stay in one place 24/7 and solve crossword puzzles.
- Next is paranoia with everyone and aggression. Apparently everyone he has spoken to is a bastard, a criminal and a thief. His next favourite hobby is swearing at the TV news. He will also keep grudges for things for years and years and years.
- There would be no celebrations, no parties in this house. No happy moments. No smiling. He does not say jokes, he has no sense of humour. He never says happy stories.
- He seems to have different agendas for each family members. Behind my back he would speak about me with my sister. To me he will say that she is a failure, but he would speak with her separately against me. It is as if he is constantly starting one family member against the other. He will speak about me to my mother, but to me he will say that "you know that she is not well" and put her down etc. All his communication with family seems to be with triangulation.
- In front of other people he plays a completely different person. He is an absolute actor.
- In the few times when we would make a conversation, his answers would be so off or so grandiose. Particularly in the last few years he seems to have lost it completely. Once I asked him on the phone "What do you want from me?" when he was doing his usual behaviour where he would stop talking in the middle of the conversation, and he replied "I am trying to win the lottery". Fairly recently I tried to have a conversation with him. I had to take him outside the house because typically an argument will start on any conversation, which usually my sister will start. I asked him what has been going on in the last 3 years, since I was away. He started saying that the Americans are taking over the world, and that the Ancient Greek aristocrats were not the rich ones but the excellent ones, and that I am really intellegent and I am Socrates. He then said that he knew some Iraqis and they told him that Gadaffi was a great leader. It was all so surreal and off topic - this was the first time we got to chat after 3 years while I was away. The last time we had basically said goodbe, and it had been another 2-3 years of not speaking again while in the same house.
- In terms of behaviour, he has always used emotional violence, threats and controlling behaviour towards others. Every person has a way to resolve issues and everyday situations. Typically when I would be at home, my sister would randomly start some argument against me. He would be sitting solving his crossword puzzles in another room and waiting for the chance to come in and start attacking me verbally and threatening me. If you go against him in an argument, he will insist all the way, then claim that he has done everything for you, then threaten to kick me out of the house, then threaten that he will call the police. All this could be, for example, if I said that I can't take any more attacks from my sister.... This is what happened last time, and this triangle of me and my sister arguing is my father's favourite. He gets the chance to feel like he is really in control.
- In the last years he has also developed Alzheimer's. He claims however that he is fine. As he onece (and only) spoke about it: "I just have Alzheimer's, I am fine".

My mother has schizophrenia and perhaps also narcissistic personality disorder. Schizophrenia started when she became 35. While working, she started making up stories that the people at her work were stealing, and later on that there was a group of organized killers there. When this happened, no one told neither me or my sister. My father first took her to a church for exorcism (!) - we all went on a family trip.... Then, as far as I found out from the few relatives who were in contact with him, he would put drops of antipsychotics in my mother's drink. Eventually she went to the doctor and they told her she needed to stop working and she lives of a benefit for schizophrenia. Again, my father never discussed this matter. It is as if it never happened. It is all "secret".

My mother has been a control freak in anything around the housework. Not only that but she would look for opportunities to constantly demean anyone she spoke to. Comments such as "You have all these problems", "You cannot do this", "You've put on weight", or somehow try to load you at the most unexpected time with some problem which usually she is responsible for, just to knock the smile off your face. She makes up stories about the people she knows to make them look bad - "She failed to do this", "He is not good enough in that" etc. She is extremely stubborn and insists on illogical things, making up excuses and lies all the time.

My sister is a heroine user who has been on drugs fo about 18 years now. She still hasn't stopped. She has been living in the same house with these people constantly until last year. She lives off a benefit for drug use. She has spent the majority of her life arguing with my family, running away, doing drugs, and starting arguments against me when I would be around. I believe that my sister has more potential to be an actual psychopath. She wants to be the center of attention in all conversations, or she starts attacking others. She has a history of stealing and drugs since the age of 15. She was a bully while she was at school. She has grown up with punk music and the hardet metal and associated "against the system" attitude. She feels no remorse for her actions. For example, once she was caught because she had been living with a drug dealer, and when she was asked about it she said "But I did not become a prostitute.", almost feeling proud about it. She also triangulates - in many occasions she would try to tell me things about my mother or my father so as to get us to argue. Typically she would start an argument against me, because my father will then jump in - not because of the argument but to pretend that he is in charge. He is not really interested in either of us as I have understood.

The father and mother used to attend a rehab center support group but they gave up years ago. They never listened to the advice they gave and never spoke about it to me. For the last years they basically enable my sister to keep taking drugs and my mother says that "they are helping her".

Anyway, this is a long story that has ran over about 20 years now, most of which I have been away. It is simply extremely difficult to have any conversation with either of those people: either they are not itnerested, or they will start an argument, or they will start blaming me about something, or there will be a totally illogical conversation. All of them are in denial of their stubborn, aggressive, illogical, lying behaviour. For years I would try to tell friends and family about their weird behaviour but it seems that the close circle in the family are in denial about what is going on.

As of the last few months, I am currently attending a group for family members of people with mental disorders, where I have met more relatives of people with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses and it feels like life finally makes a little sense. We can finally speak about mental ilness openly and about how people like my family behave, and feel like I am not the crazy one (as my father also tries to make out).

Does my father's behaviour sound psychopathic? Or what else could it be? Is it just malignant narcissism? I would appreciate our answers.
 
Currently we live in the same house but botm the father and mother have chosen to not speak to me at all - not that it is any different from the last few years. There is no clear reason for it other that they would make a difficult situation out of everything. I am lucky that there is no daily argument as before.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what is in my father's head. Particularly the ease in which he puts on a show in front of other people to pretend that he is the greatest person in the world and somehow we have some relationship which he is aware of is really disturbing.

I have done a lot of reading on NPD and Psychopathy. He has no criminal versatility and I don't know what he was like when he was young.

I attempted to do a quick assessment using the PCL-R Checklist just to get an idea. I scored him a 21/40. Apparently a psychopath must score 30+, though I don't know information about his childhood.

Facet 1: Interpersonal

Glibness/superficial charm: 1
Grandiose sense of self-worth: 2
Pathological lying: 2
Cunning/manipulative: 2

Facet 2: Affective

Lack of remorse or guilt: 2
Emotionally shallow: 2
Callous/lack of empathy: 2
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions: 2



Facet 3: Lifestyle

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom: 1
Parasitic lifestyle: 0
Lack of realistic, long-term goals: 1
Impulsivity: 2
Irresponsibility: 1

Facet 4: Antisocial

Poor behavioral controls: 1
Early behavioral problems: ?
Juvenile delinquency: ?
Revocation of conditional release: ?
Criminal versatility: ?

Many short-term marital relationships: 0
Promiscuous sexual behavior: 0


Note that the worked in the police in a high rank, which is a profession common for psychopathic personalities.


The other weird thing about both the father and mother is the strong stare they both have. My mother's eyes are certainly weird. My father has a bit of dead eyes. This is what they look like:

11m9q42.jpg


This look always gives me a chill.
 
wondering2 said:
Facet 1: Interpersonal

Glibness/superficial charm: 1
Grandiose sense of self-worth: 2
Pathological lying: 2
Cunning/manipulative: 2

Facet 2: Affective

Lack of remorse or guilt: 2
Emotionally shallow: 2
Callous/lack of empathy: 2
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions: 2



Facet 3: Lifestyle

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom: 1
Parasitic lifestyle: 0
Lack of realistic, long-term goals: 1
Impulsivity: 2
Irresponsibility: 1

Facet 4: Antisocial

Poor behavioral controls: 1
Early behavioral problems: ?
Juvenile delinquency: ?
Revocation of conditional release: ?
Criminal versatility: ?

Many short-term marital relationships: 0
Promiscuous sexual behavior: 0

I think it is hard to tell, since as I remember the PCLR test requires lots of experience since it is done in an interview. Your father shows from your description that something is off, but if he falls in any of the categories i.e. psychopath I personally cannot tell.

Have you had a chance to read the "big five book" yet and to do some healing work too?

2. Narcissism "Big Five"
The Myth of Sanity: Divided Consciousness and the Promise of Awareness2.1 - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in their Struggle for Self2.2 - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers: Encountering the Psychic Vampire in Ourselves & Others - Barbara E. Hort
Character Disturbance: The Phenomenon of Our Age2.3 - George K. Simon

And you wrote that you moved back to your family. Is there a chance to get out again, since it is doing you no good living there? And what happened when you for the first time moved out and what was the reason coming back? And were the exceptions when your father and or mother were nice?
 
Hi wondering2,

You mentioned your father suffers from Alzheimer's disease. Paranoia, emotional flatness, inability to experience pleasure (anhedonia) as well as some obsessive behaviors often accompany Alzheimer's and are sometimes noticed before an actual diagnosis is made. If you can find out how he was in a younger age from anyone who knew him then, it might help your understanding.

Solving crossword puzzles is said to be one of the ways to ward off Alzheimer's. Maybe your dad knows that and is trying to do what he can to keep the disease from progressing? Was he always obsessive about crossword puzzles or did it begin around the time of the Alzheimer's diagnosis?

Regarding secretiveness, people who have experienced severe trauma in early childhood can become secretive about the past. Narcissists are more likely to brag about and embellish their past instead.

Given your mother's schizophrenia, sister's drug use and job as a high ranking police officer, it does not look like he has had an easy life later on.

He could have mental pathology as you suspect - but do consider the above aspects as well.

fwiw
 
Hello wondering2, I must say that I agree with obyvatel; It sounds as if your father has had a severe trauma in his earlier years. Returning war veterans are often severely traumatised by their experiences, and rarely talk about it except to people who went through it with them. Without this feedback it is easy to become a loner. Some become addicts to various substances, especially alcohol. Some become mentally unhinged.
Doing crosswords is healthy, ( I do them too! )

I have to ask, why have you moved back in with them?
You must have further lessons to learn from this situation.
 
Gawan said:
I think it is hard to tell, since as I remember the PCLR test requires lots of experience since it is done in an interview. Your father shows from your description that something is off, but if he falls in any of the categories i.e. psychopath I personally cannot tell.

Have you had a chance to read the "big five book" yet and to do some healing work too?

2. Narcissism "Big Five"
The Myth of Sanity: Divided Consciousness and the Promise of Awareness2.1 - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in their Struggle for Self2.2 - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers: Encountering the Psychic Vampire in Ourselves & Others - Barbara E. Hort
Character Disturbance: The Phenomenon of Our Age2.3 - George K. Simon

Hi Gawan.

Thank you for the book suggestions. I trust that they must be relevant to my case. I have to admit that it takes me a lot of time to read books as I am not a very focused reader and do not always finish them, but I will do my best to try them.

I currently have in my possession "The Drama of the Gifted Child" by Alice Miller - which I have read, the "Mask of sanity" - which I read half-way, and "The Sociopath next door" - which I read partly. I have also done a lot of reading on Narcissistic families on the internet. By the way, the model of my family seems to fit the narcissistic family theory: my father is the main narcissist, my mother a co-dependent, my sister became the scapegoat, and I was the golden boy for years - frankly at no less cost than my sister.

I also read a very nice book called "What makes Narcissists tick". It is not a self-healing book but it describes the behaviour of a covert narcissist from a personal perspective quite well, without being too technical and medical, and it is unique in that sense, compared to technical and very theoretcal books from psychologists and doctors.

And you wrote that you moved back to your family. Is there a chance to get out again, since it is doing you no good living there? And what happened when you for the first time moved out and what was the reason coming back? And were the exceptions when your father and or mother were nice?

I lived abroad continuously since a young age. I was last working as a contractor, finished my last contract, and came back here to have a break. I hadn't seen these monsters for a few years, so I had forgotten what they are like. They all started on me. I am alright now after some scars. The mother and father were never "nice". They were in control mode ever back as I remember. Niceness is associated with some kind of regular emotional function. I don't think narcissists like them have true emotions, and thus no "nice emotions" either.


On a sidenote, I see alot of Irish people on this forum. Is it Irish-made? Are you Irish? I used to date an Irish lady some years ago, had some Irish friends too. Lovely country!

Edit: Mod fixed quotation box.
 
wondering2 said:
On a sidenote, I see alot of Irish people on this forum. Is it Irish-made? Are you Irish? I used to date an Irish lady some years ago, had some Irish friends too. Lovely country!

The owner of this forum is Laura Knight-Jadczyk, a woman who was born and raised in Florida, USA. A mother of 5 children. She has written many very informative books about her adventures; superluminal communication, 4th Way Work via Gurdjieff and Mouravieff and the Cassiopaeans, having dealings with a psychopath that lead her to research the topic very thoroughly, and much more.

She has written about her research and adventures in The Wave series, Amazing Grace, The Secret History of the World and How to Get out Alive, 9/11 the Ultimate Truth, High Strangeness and more.

Also, the books suggested by Gawan are really important reads to understand how some people may seem psychopathic, but are actually damaged by their upbringing by other damaged people. They have narcissistic and/or psychopathic traits because of the abuse and/or programming learned from early on in their lives on into adulthood by parents, friends, society at large, etc.

It's not easy to tell if someone is a true psychopath , or just a damaged person as most of us are until we start to Work on ourselves.

You can read some of Laura's books here for free if you can't afford them. But, if you can, it's considerate to pay her back for all of the research she has done by buying the books that can be found on Amazon.

And, yes, there are quite a few Irish individuals here on the forum and in Laura's extended family. ;)
 
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