Bob Dylan - deal with the devil?

luc

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Since I recently went to see Bob Dylan in concert (I'm not a big fan, but I got invited) and in light of the recent session, I'd like to share a few thoughts.

So there's this video on youtube where he supposedly admits that he made a "deal with the devil" to get where he is:


https://youtu.be/IqvvOD4bdRs

Really, I don't know a lot about his biography, but still I wonder if this could be true and he may be an early example of "programming the masses via music", something that later became the modus operandi of the music business according to the C's? After all, Dylan started out as a folk singer with interesting things to say, speaking to people's hearts, and then had many "breaks" in his career (going electrical, his Christian stuff etc.), and always remained silent about political issues. It almost seems as if he dragged away a huge following from the traditional/critical folk music on a path of confusion, thus dividing the movement and putting all the other artists in the second row... As we know now, creating heroes and then "deconstructing" them to manipulate their followers is a common and obvious theme in the show business today (think Miley Cyrus...). Except that it almost seems that Dylan, unlike today's media puppets, is conscious of all this.

I'm really not an expert on his lyrics, but somehow I get the expression he knows a lot (maybe it was part of the "deal"?), and gives out concealed information in an almost mocking way, knowing that nobody will understand... This would fit with his general attitude during concerts, where he doesn't really respect his audience - he comes on stage, does his thing, than disappears, without a word or even a gesture. And he is known to play absolutely awful shows from time to time, which is really an affront to those loyal fans paying big money to see him...

Anyway, consider this song which he also played in the concert I saw:

Pay In Blood

Well I'm grinding my life out, steady and sure
Nothing more wretched than what I must endure
I'm drenched in the light that shines from the sun
I could stone you to death for the wrongs that you've done

Sooner or later you make a mistake,
I'll put you in a chain that you never will break
Legs and arms and body and bone
I pay in blood, but not my own

Night after night, day after day
They strip your useless hopes away
The more I take the more I give
The more I die the more I live


I got something in my pocket make your eyeballs swim
I got dogs could tear you limb from limb
I'm circlin' around the southern zone
I pay in blood, but not my own

Low cards are what I've got
But I'll play this hand whether I like it or not
I'm sworn to uphold the laws of God
You could put me out in front of a firing squad

I've been out and around with the rising men
Just like you, my handsome friend
My head's so hard, must be made of stone
I pay in blood, but not my own

Another politician coming out the abyss
Another angry beggar blowing you a kiss
You got the same eyes that your mother does
If only you could prove who your father was

Someone must of slipped a drug in your wine
You gulped it down and you've crossed the line
Man can't live by bread alone
I pay in blood, but not my own

How I made it back home, nobody knows
Or how I survived so many blows
I've been through Hell, What good did it do?
You bastard! I'm suppose to respect you!

I'll give you justice, I'll fathom your purse
Show me your moral that you reversed
Hear me holler, hear me moan
I pay in blood but not my own

You get your lover in the bed
Come here I'll break your lousy head
Our nation must be saved and freed
You've been accused of murder, how do you plead?

This is how I spend my days
I came to bury, not to raise
I'll drink my fill and sleep alone
I play in blood, but not my own´


This strikes me as a rather apt description of the STS path - being part of the STS pyramid, stealing energy from others while repaying those "higher up", and all the resentment and hate towards the world and ordinary people, all the aggression and grandiosity...

Another song he played (last song), which he apparantly plays on nearly every show, was the famous "All along the watchtower":

"All Along The Watchtower"

"There must be some way out of here" said the joker to the thief
"There's too much confusion", I can't get no relief
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth.

"No reason to get excited", the thief he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late".

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too.

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.

I don't know, it kind of sounds like the story of someone consciously embarking on a dark path, someone who wants to know the secrets of the world just like Goethe's "Faust", to escape ordinary life which is "just a joke" - but not through conscious suffering and work, after all, "the hour is getting late", right?

All this is of course wild speculation and I certainly don't know Dylan's work very well, so for what it's worth.
 
Well if you listen to the interview it sound more like the deal is with God. ("with the Commander... in this world and the one we can't see") But since Dylan seems to consider Yahweh God, then yeah, maybe. But I didn't interpret that as a conscious deal with Satan. He certainly makes the distinction between the two in "Gotta Serve Somebody."
 
At least Bob Dylan accepted the medal of honor from Obama, which was of course criticized by a lot of fans:

_http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-awarded-presidential-medal-of-freedom-20120529


And played also at the White House:

_http://www.rollingstone.com/music/videos/flashback-bob-dylan-plays-for-obama-at-the-white-house-20130910

I think this pretty ignorant that he didn't refuse it.
 
Hi luc,

I saw this video several years ago. It made an impression and I thought of it on occasion. Also several years ago, I saw Dylan perform in concert presented on tv. His appearance was a bit of a shock to me. He had aged so much and not well. He looked like the life had been sucked right out of him and I thought of that interview. I do believe its possible he made that pact with the devil and the lyrics Pay in Blood are eerie, dark and STS. How he appeared in concert, as you say, shows withdrawal from the larger world. I don't know that his true soul plan is sts though. I kind of get the impression he's taken a detour and is caught in the dark. Perhaps he'll learn a lot on that path and bounce back to potentially STO. It may not happen in this life time though.

I was a fan of his music at one time but only his earlier work. I considered him to be a very talented lyricist, creating imagery in words.

Sometimes, it seems to me, that some people that carry a lot of light(STO potential) but are naïve and unexperienced in the ways of the dark get totally taken over, pounced on and gobbled up.. They start drowning in the muck and cant find their way out. Its painful to see. I know the C's said that some beings come here to experience this darkness, to learn about it, not being apart of the world they came from. So they have this quality of light and innocence about them even though they're immersed in the dark and confusion. I don't know, just something I've noticed. I certainly don't know if this applies to Dylan who may be a different sort of person altogether.
 
In response to Mr. Premise.

The term "selling his soul to the devil", I see as more the music industry in this case, that's how I interpret his remarks. Not an actual pact with the devil. Wanted to clarify that.
 
Thanks for the comments!

Mr. Premise said:
Well if you listen to the interview it sound more like the deal is with God. ("with the Commander... in this world and the one we can't see") But since Dylan seems to consider Yahweh God, then yeah, maybe. But I didn't interpret that as a conscious deal with Satan. He certainly makes the distinction between the two in "Gotta Serve Somebody."

Well, I guess it can be interpreted that way, it's really hard to say. On the other hand, I think the way he phrased it, I don't think a religious man would talk about God that way. The context was why he still goes on tour non-stop, and he says it's because the bargain he made, in order to get where he is (his fame). Would a religious man, even a zealot, consider the possibility of making such a deal with God for fame? Here's the transcript of what he says:

Question: Why do you still do it? Why are you still out here?
Dylan: It goes back to that destiny thing. I made a bargain with it a long time ago, and I’m holding up my end.
Q: What was your bargain?
Dylan: To get where I am now.
Q: Should I ask whom you made the bargain with?
Dylan: With the chief commander.
Q: On this earth?
Dylan: (laughing) On this earth and the world we can’t see.

Also, his reaction was a bit awkward I think - like as if he thought about what he can disclose, and with an air of "You will never understand, but I know". Just my impression though. As for "Gotta serve somebody" - he definitely speaks a lot of sense there, like in many other songs. As I said I have the impression he knows some things, which I think doesn't tell us about his "orientation". I really don't know what to make out of it.

And then I just found a reference to the "Commander in chief" in one of his songs, Tombstone Blues:

Well, John the Baptist after torturing a thief
Looks up at his hero the Commander-in-Chief
Saying, "Tell me great hero, but please make it brief
Is there a hole for me to get sick in ?"
The Commander-in-Chief answers him while chasing a fly
Saying, "Death to all those who would whimper and cry"
And dropping a bar bell he points to the sky
Saying, "The sun's not yellow it's chicken.

Again, I'm not sure - this could be read either way I guess...



Gawan said:
At least Bob Dylan accepted the medal of honor from Obama, which was of course criticized by a lot of fans:

_http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-awarded-presidential-medal-of-freedom-20120529


And played also at the White House:

_http://www.rollingstone.com/music/videos/flashback-bob-dylan-plays-for-obama-at-the-white-house-20130910

I think this pretty ignorant that he didn't refuse it.

Wow, that's pretty tough, especially since Dylan doesn't strike me as a fool. That kind of fits with the fact that he never really spoke up and separated himself from the Anti-war movement early on. I just found an interesting text about his political life here: _http://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-politics-of-bob-dylan/
 
SummerLite said:
In response to Mr. Premise.

The term "selling his soul to the devil", I see as more the music industry in this case, that's how I interpret his remarks. Not an actual pact with the devil. Wanted to clarify that.

Yeah, it's not something we necessarily should take literally. Although, committing to something one knows is pure evil for selfish reasons (fame, money, power...) comes very close to a literal "pact with the devil" I think. Not to say that I know for sure that this is what happened with Dylan.
 
SummerLite said:
In response to Mr. Premise.

The term "selling his soul to the devil", I see as more the music industry in this case, that's how I interpret his remarks. Not an actual pact with the devil. Wanted to clarify that.

This was my impression also. There have been many different music artists who have spoken of these things in their lyrics. A few years ago I interpreted this literally and actually held the belief that these artists were actual worshippers of satan, howeverI am now under the impression that this is a means for them to communicate certain messages through lyrics without breaking official contracts that have already been signed to record companies. In this sense, 'selling ones soul to the devil' may simply translate to being unable to write ones own lyrics through being bound to legal contracts and being required to abide by certain companies rules etc and furthering agendas one may not agree with.
 
SummerLite said:
In response to Mr. Premise.

The term "selling his soul to the devil", I see as more the music industry in this case, that's how I interpret his remarks. Not an actual pact with the devil. Wanted to clarify that.
Yes, and I think this is probably true of almost all great artists. At least since the Renaissance which inaugurated the cult of the artist. In the Middle Ages great artists were just really skilled craftsmen. And in modern times, if you look at their lives, their family members almost always suffer from their obsession with their art. As for Dylan given some lyrics of his to other songs, I would bet he agrees with you. I'm thinking of "Sweetheart Like You" among others.

Well, the pressure’s down, the boss ain’t here
He gone North, he ain’t around
They say that vanity got the best of him
But he sure left here after sundown
By the way, that’s a cute hat
And that smile’s so hard to resist
But what’s a sweetheart like you doin’ in a dump like this?

You know, I once knew a woman who looked like you
She wanted a whole man, not just a half
She used to call me sweet daddy when I was only a child
You kind of remind me of her when you laugh
In order to deal in this game, got to make the queen disappear
It’s done with a flick of the wrist
What’s a sweetheart like you doin’ in a dump like this?


You know, a woman like you should be at home
That’s where you belong
Watching out for someone who loves you true
Who would never do you wrong
Just how much abuse will you be able to take?
Well, there’s no way to tell by that first kiss
What’s a sweetheart like you doin’ in a dump like this?

You know you can make a name for yourself
You can hear them tires squeal
You can be known as the most beautiful woman
Who ever crawled across cut glass to make a deal


You know, news of you has come down the line
Even before ya came in the door
They say in your father’s house, there’s many mansions
Each one of them got a fireproof floor
Snap out of it, baby, people are jealous of you
They smile to your face, but behind your back they hiss
What’s a sweetheart like you doin’ in a dump like this?

Got to be an important person to be in here, honey
Got to have done some evil deed
Got to have your own harem when you come in the door
Got to play your harp until your lips bleed


They say that patriotism is the last refuge
To which a scoundrel clings
Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king
There’s only one step down from here, baby
It’s called the land of permanent bliss
What’s a sweetheart like you doin’ in a dump like this?

I've always loved the last verse too:

They say that patriotism is the last refuge
To which a scoundrel clings
Steal a little and they throw you in jail
Steal a lot and they make you king
There’s only one step down from here, baby
It’s called the land of permanent bliss
What’s a sweetheart like you doin’ in a dump like this?

And yes, I'm a big fan :D But he has always been kind of dark, especially after he converted to Yahwism after his bitter divorce. But since he's a great artist he does a great job of illuminating that dark path.
 
Mr. Premise,

I think this 'cult of the artist' is very interesting. Can you recommend any reading material that explains this further?

Thanks if so!
 
SummerLite said:
Mr. Premise,

I think this 'cult of the artist' is very interesting. Can you recommend any reading material that explains this further?

Thanks if so!
Sure! I'll have to poke around a bit, I'm going from memory. I know that it started with Giorgio Vasari who was a Renaissance painter himself in the 16th century who wrote a book called The Lives of the Most Excellent Painters, Sculptors, and Architects about other famous artists. I know there are some more modern works on this topic, but the basic idea is of a great artist who can be as exalted as great political leaders and theologians because of their "genius." Leonardo, for example, was close to King Francis I of France towards the end of his life. From Wikipedia:

Leonardo died at Clos Lucé, on 2 May 1519. Francis I had become a close friend. Vasari records that the king held Leonardo's head in his arms as he died, although this story, beloved by the French and portrayed in romantic paintings by Ingres, Ménageot and other French artists, as well as by Angelica Kauffman, may be legend rather than fact...

Some 20 years after Leonardo's death, Francis was reported by the goldsmith and sculptor Benvenuto Cellini as saying: "There had never been another man born in the world who knew as much as Leonardo, not so much about painting, sculpture and architecture, as that he was a very great philosopher."[46]

That tended to make later generations of artists strive to be great geniuses and also led them to think that the normal rules didn't apply to them. That really would not have occurred to people in the ancient or medieval worlds.

You can also think of composers and poets in the Romantic era, or novelists in the 20th century, either Faulkner or Joyce in the early 20th century or all those narcissistic male novelists in the US postwar era all trying to write the "Great American Novel." The whole thing has kind of petered out in the post-modern period. All that's left now is the artist as celebrity, because we really don't think artists can change things.
 
Mr. Premise said:
SummerLite said:
Mr. Premise,

I think this 'cult of the artist' is very interesting. Can you recommend any reading material that explains this further?

Thanks if so!
Sure! I'll have to poke around a bit, I'm going from memory. I know that it started with Giorgio Vasari who was a Renaissance painter himself in the 16th century who wrote a book called The Lives of the Most Excellent Painters, Sculptors, and Architects about other famous artists. I know there are some more modern works on this topic, but the basic idea is of a great artist who can be as exalted as great political leaders and theologians because of their "genius." Leonardo, for example, was close to King Francis I of France towards the end of his life. From Wikipedia:

Leonardo died at Clos Lucé, on 2 May 1519. Francis I had become a close friend. Vasari records that the king held Leonardo's head in his arms as he died, although this story, beloved by the French and portrayed in romantic paintings by Ingres, Ménageot and other French artists, as well as by Angelica Kauffman, may be legend rather than fact...

Some 20 years after Leonardo's death, Francis was reported by the goldsmith and sculptor Benvenuto Cellini as saying: "There had never been another man born in the world who knew as much as Leonardo, not so much about painting, sculpture and architecture, as that he was a very great philosopher."[46]

That tended to make later generations of artists strive to be great geniuses and also led them to think that the normal rules didn't apply to them. That really would not have occurred to people in the ancient or medieval worlds.

You can also think of composers and poets in the Romantic era, or novelists in the 20th century, either Faulkner or Joyce in the early 20th century or all those narcissistic male novelists in the US postwar era all trying to write the "Great American Novel." The whole thing has kind of petered out in the post-modern period. All that's left now is the artist as celebrity, because we really don't think artists can change things.
I was doing some searching on this topic and found some professor's lecture notes that provide a good summary (no bibliography, though) http://www.uwgb.edu/malloyk/lecture_6.htm
Lecture # 6 – The Changing Role of the Artist in Society

The Classical Artist –

In examining the role of the artist in the Ancient World we have to understand the influence of slavery because:

1. It provided a more or less permanent supply of low cost labor, and it tended to discourage technological innovation – hence changes in the arts and crafts occurred very slowly.

2. Slavery allowed small classes of free citizens to enjoy leisure time, social pleasure, the delights of contemplation and political debate – anything but manual labor.

3. The association of slaves or ex slaves with manual labor becomes a permanent feature of aristocratic culture. Artists are laborers.

· We have to use the term ‘artisan’ to designate painters, sculptors and craftsman in the ancient world because our concept of the artist did not exist. They are skilled laborers

· Before the concept of the Artist could emerge – or the notion of ‘genius’ as applied to certain artists of the Renaissance – it was necessary to regard the artisan as a person whose work develops from inner ideas and self-directed effort.

· Trades were hereditary.

· Formal schooling for the artisan did not exist.

· Artisan training and manufacture emphasized technical excellence.

· Little or no attention was paid to artistic expression. No one, including the artist thought the artisan’s personal feelings were of particular interest.

The Medieval Artist –

· In the Middle Ages we see the Professionalization of the Artist make its greatest strides – under the organized master craftsmen of the Medieval Guilds.

· Largely anonymous.

· We would not hesitate to call them artists, but they were stilled considered craftsmen – and therefore socially removed from gentlemen.

· Excellent though they are as weavers, sculptors, carpenters, masons, glassworkers etc… these craftsmen affected Medieval life mainly in their collective capacity – through their ability to manufacture and distribute their essential goods.

· Formal apprenticeship system with exacting standards of quality.

· The master craftsman in Medieval Europe was regarded as a decent, honorable, responsible member of society – much like a banker in the early American Midwest.

· But, as with ancient/classical art, the stamp of the individual artist was seen to be lesser or unimportant. The stamp of the Guild was all – it testified to the training of the person who made it.

· Standards of quality. - i.e. amount of gold leaf in a work.

The Master Craftsman is a freeman, no longer associated with the slave class. They may not be considered gentlemen, but some of them are making enough money to associate with the upper classes, and this will open doors not only for them - but for the Renaissance artist to come in many ways – patrons, education and social status.

The Renaissance Artist –

· Ask most people to name an artist, and they will give you a name from the Renaissance. They may even know a few of their masterpieces.

· Medieval artists are largely anonymous, but there is another reason why we don’t know them. They lived in a time that saw them as craftsmen. Not so those of the Renaissance. Why?

· One reason is due to a Florentine named Giorgio Vasari. In 1546 he wrote a book called The Lives of the Painters, Sculptors and Architects. Mostly about his fellow Florentines.

· The book discusses their careers and personalities in a manner that leaves no doubt about the importance of a crucially new idea:

· A great artist is also, and necessarily, a great person.

15th century art is intimately related to wealth.

A merchant had to demonstrate that he had the power (and the judgment) to command the finest talents, afford the most costly materials, and have the highest reaches of the imagination to carry out projects to amaze the multitude. THAT MEANT ART.

Rise of the artist depended on a number of non-aesthetic factors.

Patrons of the Renaissance were more than people of power – they were also learned and cultivated.
Households were hospitable to all kinds of learned individuals: poets, philosophers, mathematicians and scholars.
Into this world the most privileged artists were admitted.

Artists continued to work with their hands, but they could be forgiven the paint stains on their clothes if they knew the manners of the court, understood the conversation, and could contribute in the way of ideas.
Painters and sculptors were anxious to show they were educated people – closer to poets and philosophers – people who did not soil their hands. At least, they might be considered closer to architects, who were known to be able to command theoretical knowledge.

The rise of the Critic

Then, as now, artists compose their works according to certain design principles that only well informed persons – or “insiders”- understand.
Vasari compared design as second in complexity only to theology.
Obviously, there are mysteries in the arrangement of a work of art that will escape the untrained eye and the untutored mind.
Certainly, the general public recognized the images of R. art, but without the training of the Humanists, they would be ignorant of the mythical or historical allusions, the arrangement of figures based on Platonic ideals, or old scientific theories – astrology, antiquated philosophy etc…

So, we witness the beginning of a modern dilemma: as artists gain status in the eyes of the social elite, a special class of scholars – historians and critics – is needed to explain the meaning of their work.



The artists of the Renaissance had a higher purpose:
They wanted to make art means of searching for the meaning of existence.

Wanted to live up to the expectations of the Humanists who saw significance in the idea behind a work of art. Art is a product of independent thought and inquiry. Is this the same as individual expression?



The Court Artist –

Rulers of every country require images of themselves to celebrate their victories, to inspire loyalty, to impress their people, to maintain a sense of presences, and to set an example.
Even when the images seem decorative, they represent authority.
The royal image gives a persona to a land and its inhabitants –not abstract like a flag.
The political function of this type of art seems to be the same regardless of the culture: to unite the prevailing idea of authority with a ruler’s idealized image.
To create that image, an artist must have access to the ruler. That means physical contact, often for sustained periods of time.
The Court Artist becomes a courtier – one who belongs, or wants to belong – to the social circle surrounding a monarch.
The definitive form is the Baroque Court Artist phenomenon that emerged in the 16th and 17th centuries in the places of monarchs ruling by divine right.
Louis XIV set the example, which was followed by the higher clergy and lesser nobility – all wanted their likeness and deeds recorded by painters and sculptors.
Consequently, there was a continuous jockeying amongst talented artists seeking court positions and places in the houses of aristocrats and clergy.
In many ways, the court portrait defines the Baroque style. (Critics opinion.)

This challenged the court painter to create – with the frequently modest dimensions of a real man or woman – the image of a being that fits the glorious mythology of divine kingship.
Larger than life personas
Move ponderously but with irresistible force across the land, and by implication, through the heavens.
Energy seems to radiate from them as from the sun.
Their rhythms correspond to the rhythm of the planets.

· Characteristics of Baroque art include: exquisite skill and the illusion of light, space and motion that characterized the style.

The court artist inspired the political notion that the powers of the state are virtually unlimited.
Baroque courtly art would filter down to influence the manners, postures and dress of the aristocrats and through them, the lower classes.

The Society Artist –

Closely associated with the Courtly Artist.

Painting the Merchant Princes – the Nouveau Riche, the class of persons who achieved greatness through achievement rather than lineage.
By turn of the 20th century, the function of the society painter was to create images that were simultaneously living likenesses; signs of good taste, symbols of fashion, and evidence of wealth.
While rarely courtiers, these people had to be portrayed as if they belonged at court.
This, American millionaires were made to look like English Dukes and Duchesses.
It was common for the society painter to make everyone look thinner, and paler. New convention of representation.
Agents of aesthetic and cultural diffusion.
These ideals are later taken up by Hollywood.
The modern court artist is no longer a place resident, and not necessarily a painter.
Society photographers: Cecil Beaton. Portraits may be as stiffly posed as a painting.
We now want o see our leaders relaxed – we want to see them as real, and less remote.
There is a quality of informality, because the camera is democratic – it makes us all equal.
Anyone with a camera can catch a great person unawares.
Paparazzi is the modern court artist.

The Revolutionary Artist –

When artists belonged to the artisan class, the themes of their work were controlled by people who wanted to maintain the status quo.
When it was shown that art is a product of independent thought and inquiry the way was open for society and all of its institutions to become the objects of such inquiry.
Genuinely revolutionary art only occurred when artists (and thoughtful people in general) realized that they could play a role in the shaping of history. (Before this, art was descriptive – showed everyday scenes).
The artist could participate in the transformation of society by using visual images as an agent of social progress.

Art could be a critical as well as a descriptive representation of life.



3 Types of Revolutionary Artists –

Tries to make fundamental changes through direct attack of the persons, legal situation and social institutions that support the status quo.

Sometimes called Propagandists, because the literally illustrate revolutionary dogma. (Kathe Kollwitz and the Mexican Muralist Diego Rivera fit this category).

2. Indirectly revolutionary.

· Do not offer a scheme for political or social change.

· But, their representation of social conditions is so outraged, and so scathing that it makes viewers feel that they cannot support the existing social order. (Goya, Daumier and Munch).

It incites others to action.

3. Revolutionary purely for artistic reasons.

· Essentially internal developments within the history of art.

· Introduce/originate radical changes in visual form, but it has little or nothing to say about society or politics.

· Marxist would say this is innovative but not revolutionary.

· Art critics argue that fundamental changes in visual representation have deeply unsettling, and therefore revolutionary effects on society.

· It can also be argued that if form and content are inseparable, then changes in artistic form signal underlying changes in society as a whole. (Cezanne, Matisse, Manet, Picasso).

The Bohemian Artist –

The person who can identify the Italian Masters also knows about Bohemianism.

It means:

No regular job
No regular hours
Loose living
Partying

Most people make connections between Bohemians, hippies, and dropouts.
They also suspect – rightly –that some artists spend more time perfecting their lifestyles than they do on making art.

Many are attracted to the artistic lifestyle – including assorted rebels and poseurs.
There is tolerance, freedom and camaraderie here.

Many of the major personalities of Modern Art were devotees of the Bohemian spirit – at least, they started out as bohemians.

Lifestyle appears to be nonconformist in the extreme.
Actually a code – a highly standardized code – that art students and artists buy into. (A philosophy of art and life).
It is a style and a profession requiring the fervent dedication of its followers.

These "Bohemian artists" are what Gurdjieff referred to as "tramps."
The connection between Bohemianism and Romanticism –

Bohemians try to exploit the main discoveries of the Romanticists:

The central importance of the inner life of the artist. (Individual expression)
Emotions are the ultimate truth. (Both in the artist and viewer).
The significance of the intuition in artistic creativity.
The secret meaning of irrational acts.
The inseparability of art and life.

These are serious principles around which the bohemian artist tries to build a personal and artistic existence.

Dedication to art as substitute for religion

ART FOR ART’S SAKE IS THE ABSOLUTE.

Rules to prevent the loss to prevent the loss of what is most precious to the Romantic Artist:

Originality
Emotional power
The ability to excite viewers, to overwhelm ordinary people with the force of the artist’s expression of feelings.

Romantics have a confidence in the ability of art to change people by appealing directly to their emotions.
Convinced that logic, reason and science dealt only with superficial matters.
Believed conscious thought, official knowledge, and established institutions were a thin covering hiding the real truth.
If artists permit themselves to be guided by ordinary codes of behavior they will never access it.
Conventional codes of behavior were designed to hide the truth.
A conviction that social conventions are misleading as well as corrupt.
It makes sense to avoid the lies and compromises that make up the lives of “respectable” people.

Revolutionary artists are fundamentally Political Radicals.

Bohemian artists are Social Radicals.

Their lives are a personal protest against the social order and the cultural establishment.
Protest may not take artistic form – but it does take behavioral form.
Lack of possessions, contempt for social expectations – their lives must express contempt for everything the middle class holds dear.
Ironically, almost always a product of the middle class.

Powerful desire to tear down symbols of society.
Another factor is drugs/alcohol/sexuality/illness/suicide/early death.
Self-destruction seems to be an important theme: artist must suffer.
Those who survived Bohemianism recognized it as a phase appropriate to the student. If you stay there, you end up unproductive and unable to deal with life.

The Modern Artist –

Can be any or all of these types we have discussed.

Also: Illustrator, Graphic Designer, Industrial Designer, Hyphenated Artist or Gallery Idol.

Illustration = art intended to accompany something else.

They embellish a writer’s work.
Several stars in the US – esp. WWII – Norman Rockwell.
Advertising.



Graphic Design = Visual communication in printed or electronically printed form.

Industrial Design - the marriage of art and engineering

They determine the form of objects for machine production.
Also visual services, product planning, display and environments.
 
Hi folks, If your really interested in an alternative view of Bob and the biz, check this article:

http://mileswmathis.com/dylan.pdf

..take your big "grain of salt" with you if your not familiar with Miles ( the guy has NO fear of going "down the rabbit hole" though his writing style does come off as a bit self important ) or fully aware of the artistic-cultural psy-op that has been fed to us for the past 80+ years. Personally, as a half-assed folk singer/writer myself, I never liked Bob much and never understood why so many critics put him on a pedestal, but i gave him props on some of his lyrics...in the above link the author asserts that he did not pen most of his "good stuff"....and much more. The article gave me more than a few ah-ha! moments FWIW.

This link was also in the above article:

http://www.americansongwriter.com/2013/06/joni-mitchell-returns-clarifies-dylan-comments/

...Joni is a true artist, I think the interview is well worth watching, though the interviewer is kind of annoying..( bias alert!...I LOVE Joni, especially the jazz stuff...Shadows and Light, IMO, is one of the best live albums EVER!)

I have found that one of the first metrics to use as to weather a musical artist is creative/original or copycat/coat-tail rider is this; do they rest on their laurels and stay locked in the style they got famous for, or do they constantly try new things/directions?....the latter usually alienates their "fans" , the former coddles them and needs their approval. The true artist, like Joni, answers to a higher calling, IMO.

Also, on a more current note, this article is quite thought provoking too IMO.

http://mileswmathis.com/swift.pdf

it addresses more of the psy-op of what pop music is designed to do, which alines with what the C's say. ( as i don't have the time right now to root up the relevant C's comments...the most recent session comes to mind...maybe our wonderfully perspicacious poster and transcript wiz Goyobocol, or another, could help out here?)

Thanks, Dave
 
Thanks for all this, Mr. Premise.

Mr. Premise said:
And yes, I'm a big fan :D But he has always been kind of dark, especially after he converted to Yahwism after his bitter divorce. But since he's a great artist he does a great job of illuminating that dark path.

Yes, that's a great way to put it I think. Kind of: He has chosen a dark path (or knows it) and uses his talent to illuminate it. And btw., I enjoyed the concert and I like his music - there's a deepness in it that is not present in most of today's music, as I said, it feels like someone knowing a lot of things, bringing it together through music and veiled, dark lyrics. And his band is superb! But still, I just can't fully wrap my head around the Dylan phenomenon...
 
Well, Thank you Mr. Premise for taking the time to pull that all together! Very informative and a good condensed version on the history of the artist. I've often marveled at the exquisite craftsmanship and beauty found in European palaces and wondered about the people who created all that. For the most part they are an invisible group and their work was used to glorify the rulers, originally in the category of slaves. Wow. All this still goes on today. In a recent edition of "Architectural Digest" a magazine specifically for "the elite" the home of one of the Rothschild's was shown in all its splendor, all created by the work of others.. In this publication you can also see how certain "artists" are chosen to be promoted even if their work is sub-par in my opinion. That connection of money+art is a real big ego trip to put it simply and another "cult" aspect maybe. STS does not create, so it seems there is a compulsion to attach itself to what IS creative, in doing so the self is glorified. Just trying to understand.

And Bob Dylan is a part of this "art world" which has many facets so not to off topic I guess.

As I start to post this, I see 2 new comments have been added. Will leave this for now. :D
 
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