Greece: debt, creditors, austerity measures, Syriza, Varoufakis, Troika

luc said:
Mr.Cyan said:
Jeremy F Kreuz said:
With the excellent interview on the Lybian war, done by SOTT radio, my gut feeling is that they will never allow Greece to leave, and if it does, 250K terrorists will drench it in blood. Tsipiras should get extra security.
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Not sure about flooding Greece with terrorists; but they will definitely try all avenues. If the outcome is a "No" - then most likely Greece will be the prime candidate for a regime change - unless Syriza and Tsipras have already anticipated this, and are strategising against it. Not to forget the Russia factor; i think there's lots of behind the scenes communications going on now between Greece and Russia, and hopefully the FSB is lending assistance as well to Greek intelligence for Tsipras's safety. Wishful thinking maybe, but i guess hope is not a bad thing.
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Another thing to consider is that Greece isn't Libya - it's part of Europe, very close culturally and geographically, it's a tourist location, and for example in Germany we have a strong Greek minority... So it won't be so easy I guess to conceal overt action in Greece. I don't know, we have to wait and see I guess.
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With psychopaths it's almost impossible to know. After all, Golden Dawn is still relatively popular there and they were certainly on the path towards turning Greece into a cesspool of neo-Nazi thuggery. Russia has made obvious overtures towards protecting them and, as others have said, Syriza is in power, and that relationship counts for a lot. Let's hope for the best for Greece, and do the best we can to spread the truth about the situation.
 
I'm getting reports from my Greek friends and they say that the situation in Greece is not so black and dire as is portrayed in the mass media, especially in the European. Media, according to them is lying because they want to use Greece to show the others in the EU how the "rotten child" is being punished. Greeks are worried, but very far from panic and depression. The life goes in a pretty normal way. And what is most important the majority of the Greeks are determined to go through this this time. In a words of one Greek friend: "Again, we will show you the real democracy, and hopefully will make first step in a real change".
 
Quote from: Jeremy F Kreuz on Yesterday at 02:25:07 PM

With the excellent interview on the Lybian war, done by SOTT radio, my gut feeling is that they will never allow Greece to leave, and if it does, 250K terrorists will drench it in blood. Tsipiras should get extra security.


Not sure about flooding Greece with terrorists; but they will definitely try all avenues. If the outcome is a "No" - then most likely Greece will be the prime candidate for a regime change - unless Syriza and Tsipras have already anticipated this, and are strategising against it. Not to forget the Russia factor; i think there's lots of behind the scenes communications going on now between Greece and Russia, and hopefully the FSB is lending assistance as well to Greek intelligence for Tsipras's safety. Wishful thinking maybe, but i guess hope is not a bad thing.
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maybe - but then remember history not so long ago: During the Second World War, America (and Britain) went to war against Greeks who had fought heroically against Nazism and were resisting the rise of Greek fascism. In 1967, the CIA helped bring to power a fascist military junta in Athens
 
Avala said:
I'm getting reports from my Greek friends and they say that the situation in Greece is not so black and dire as is portrayed in the mass media, especially in the European. Media, according to them is lying because they want to use Greece to show the others in the EU how the "rotten child" is being punished. Greeks are worried, but very far from panic and depression. The life goes in a pretty normal way. And what is most important the majority of the Greeks are determined to go through this this time. In a words of one Greek friend: "Again, we will show you the real democracy, and hopefully will make first step in a real change".
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That's good to hear. We knew the presstitute would try every dirty trick and scaremongering to try to influence things to go the way of the elite. Hopefully the Greek people will be able to resist in the face of all pressure and dirty tricks.
 
SeekinTruth said:
Avala said:
I'm getting reports from my Greek friends and they say that the situation in Greece is not so black and dire as is portrayed in the mass media, especially in the European. Media, according to them is lying because they want to use Greece to show the others in the EU how the "rotten child" is being punished. Greeks are worried, but very far from panic and depression. The life goes in a pretty normal way. And what is most important the majority of the Greeks are determined to go through this this time. In a words of one Greek friend: "Again, we will show you the real democracy, and hopefully will make first step in a real change".
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That's good to hear. We knew the presstitute would try every dirty trick and scaremongering to try to influence things to go the way of the elite. Hopefully the Greek people will be able to resist in the face of all pressure and dirty tricks.
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And this could be one of those dirty tricks with intention to confuse people before going to referendum.

Alexis Tsipras will accept all his bailout creditors' conditions that were on the table this weekend with only a handful of minor changes, according to a letter the Greek prime minister sent late Tuesday night and obtained by the Financial Times.
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This was published even on RT today: _http://rt.com/business/270934-greece-tsipras-bailout-default/

More here: _http://www.ft.com/fastft/353421
 
Yeah, i just saw this on RT too, am wondering now is this really the case ? or not....the RT article seems to have a link a twitter page with a copy of the letter...hmmmmm
 
Mr.Cyan said:
Yeah, i just saw this on RT too, am wondering now is this really the case ? or not....the RT article seems to have a link a twitter page with a copy of the letter...hmmmmm
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It's a case of disinformation. Last week they were saying about these changes that Greece wasn't being "rational" but now they say that they are accepting all bailout conditions. Greece hasn't moved closer to where Troika wants it to, I think that the Greek government is continuing to look like they are trying to work things out till the last minute, because one of the attacks against them is that they left the "communication table". See also in other news that the Troika representatives are not agreeing with the new "concessions". If Tsipras actually accepted all bailout conditions there wouldn't be a need for a referendum, plus it would be akin to a political suicide for him.

I am watching the national channel of Greece, in about an hour there will be a speech by Alexis Tsipras. I'll see what he says and let you know.
 
I am always taking the news of RT with a grain of skepticism. Some are realistic, other they used sensationalism. And when they used sensationalism this is no good. For example the other day there was a video cam on the Greeks assambled in a place, after the announce of the referendum and the title of RT was something like the Greeks were protesting against the referendum. You were able to see the "protesters" and it seems to me that they were not "protesting".
 
The BBC is reporting that Tsipras has offered new concessions but Germany will not accept anything until after the referendum on Sunday.

They also state that EU leaders want him out.
 
Here's latest:
Greek PM Alexis Tsipras has said any statements about expelling Greece from the Eurozone should Sunday's referendum result in a "No" vote are a bluff - and he made assurances that Greece aims to strike a new bailout deal after the plebiscite.

A defiant Tsipras addressed his fellow Greeks in a live televised speech on Wednesday. He said that his country needs new reforms, different from the ones international lenders are insisting on.

"The reforms that the country really needs are different from those that we were being pressed into for so many years, and that led practically to a humanitarian catastrophe,” Tsipras said. “We need reforms that will give us hope and security."

The Greek government has called a snap referendum on Sunday, asking people the question whether they think Athens should agree to the new conditions the international lenders have set. The prime minister said that even if the popular vote produced a "No," Greece would not be expelled from the Eurozone.

"The referendum has nothing to do with Greece staying in the Eurozone, no one can doubt that," Tsipras said, adding that any threats to expel Greece from the currency union are a bluff.

Should Greece receive a positive answer from the lenders to the suggestions it made about a new deal, the Greek government will "react immediately," the prime minister said.

In the wrap-up of his address, Tsipras assured Greeks that the current hardships will not last forever. "The salaries will not be lost, the deposits of those who have chosen to keep their capital in the country will not disappear," he said.
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No mention of excepting EU terms in the way it was published in FT.
 
He doesn't want Greece to leave the EU. That's all Brussels needs to know. If Brussels is an abusive partner and despite this abuse he doesn't want to leave... Then what else can you say? Do you expect the partner to miraculously grow a soul? Pfffft...
 
Just thought to share this stunning photo of Athens today at time of Tsipras speech to the Nation.

photo by Mario Kanaet / Al Jazeera Balkans
 

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He doesn't want Greece to leave the EU. That's all Brussels needs to know. If Brussels is an abusive partner and despite this abuse he doesn't want to leave... Then what else can you say? Do you expect the partner to miraculously grow a soul? Pfffft...
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maybe that is just strategy - leaving the EU might be a step too far for the moment for the Greeks, resulting in a yes vote, out of fear that a no would mean grexit. So to secure the no he reassures the fearful among the greeks.
 
I think the reason that Tsipras and Varoufakis don't want to leave the Eurozone is that going back to the Drachma would very likely lead to a highly inflationary scenario, possibly hyper-inflationary which would ravage the economy even more. While a deflationary scenario isn't desired either, it is the least worse of the two options. Yet, unless the creditors decide to show magnanimity by forgiving the Greek debt (extremely unlikely tbh), the high inflationary outcome is bound to happen; it is just being delayed.

IMO, Greece won't leave the Euro just now, but only when the next financial crisis unfolds. I wouldn't want to be in Tsipras' position at that point in time though. I really hope that he is able to make the best choice for his people and that the Greeks support him on the way.
 
The way I see it, Greece by staying in the Eurozone means they will have to endure a harsh repayment plan on all that debt. No way are they forgiving that debt. Also it means it cant align itself with Russia, china etc. No way it can do that if the EU doesn't approve! Didn't France just cancel on those Mistral ships to Russia despite the financial penalties?

Greece needs help is the bottom line. They aren't getting out of this by themselves.

The only place they can get help in my eyes is from aligning with BRICS countries. By staying in the eurozone, that wont be happening.

I could be wrong though.
 
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