The Case for Eating more Carbs in the Evening

Gandalf said:

Scottie said:

Beau said:

Even though I try not to eat too many carbs, when I do it's almost exclusively at night. I noticed that when I ate carbs with breakfast, I didn't do as well. But at night if it's a salad or whatever, I seem to do fine. I wasn't doing horribly when I was zero carb, which was for a while, but I know that since going back to eating some veggies with dinner I do feel better.

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Just a "me too".

I pretty much figured out on my own that breakfast should be keto, lunch should be keto, and dinner can be carby. Or, dinner can be keto/paleo and post-dinner snack can be carby. If I do that, everything is fine.

The absolute worst is carbs for breakfast. That's a no-no for me. I don't feel awful or anything, but it's like it throws my system out of whack for the rest of the day.

...I still have all the Keto Perks, like more rapid healing, increased strength, etc.

I have strongly suspected for awhile now that pure keto is good for far fewer people than we think. I think the key is to get the ketone-burning systems up and running again, and then experiment and adjust the diet for optimal performance over the longer term. That will naturally involve different tweaks for different peeps.

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As you said Scottie, just a "me too" for Beau post and your post.

Breakfast = very close to no carbs, just bacon, eggs, coconut oil, avocado and curcuma.
If lunch and most of the time there is none, it is mostly keto (bone broth, MCT oil or something similar)
And for dinner, mostly keto with some vegetables, butter and mayo.
And sometimes, a little little snack during the evening with some carbs. It does help me to sleep better.

For me it is a big NO to eat as much lipid in the evening as I eat in the morning.

...I have also gained a couple of pounds since I'm eating more carbs and I feel less depressed.

I'm trying to find my max of carbs while staying in keto. But so far, I can easily eat 50g of carbs and stay in keto.

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Laura said:

Prodigal Son said:

Interestingly, this week I was thinking of going in the opposite direction, cutting out, or reducing to a bare minimum carbs. In researching this, I went back to Dr Jack Kruse of cold adapting and Epi-Paleo ‘fame’.

<snip>

What emerges is the need for eating DHA naturally (as found in shellfish and fish); a need for iodine and water; sustained cold adapting; avoidance of EMF signals and blue light (computer screens, artificial light, etc.); exposing yourself to more sunlight (UV), especially in the morning; abiding by our circadian rhythms for eating (eating protein and fat within 30mins of arising, and any carbs after midday); and eating carbs only in summer.

While I realise that this may not directly relate to being a way to help detox stuff that iodine is releasing for some people, yet sustained cold adapting seems to hold a key and I think that in the long run it is the way to go, along with having more shellfish in the diet (at least for me). Putting it all together may explain why some people are having issues with going fully keto.

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Yes, all of the above is relevant, I think, and certainly ideal. But so few people live in an environment where they can implement this solution. Thus, trying to find the best path for each person means that we consider various approaches.

I do think that the DHA is important, and we've definitely noted that the iodine is super important, and salt water, and so on. But we have to consider the extreme and unusual toxicity of our environment that was not part of the evolutionary scheme of things, and somehow, we have to find solutions that can be implemented in varying degrees of involvement for a lot of people.

I keep thinking back to the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis" and how such an evolutionary background could be affecting many people now. Lot's to think about and learn, for sure!

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Your body perceives that your blood glucose is too low, and starts evasive tactics to get that sugar from somewhere. It pumps out adrenalin (epinephrine) to tell the liver to break down stored glycogen or amino acids into glucose FAST and dump it in the blood stream, while the nervous systems pumps out acetylcholine, a neurotransmitter which acts on the sweat glands, causing profuse sweating.


The adrenalin and acetylcholine cause symptoms that are associated with reactive hypoglycemia:

heart palpitations or fibrillation
dizziness
light-headedness
sweating
headaches
nervousness
irritability
shaking and tremors
flushing
craving for sweets
intense hunger
nausea, vomiting
panic attack
numbness/coldness in the extremities
fatigue and shakiness for hours afterwards

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Laura said:

Your symptoms really do sound like bromide detoxing.

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Konstantin said:

Laura said:

Your symptoms really do sound like bromide detoxing.

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I really dont know. I`m off iodine for almost a month. Maybe iodine have mobilized something into my body and now its making problems.Few days ago i posted that all symptoms are gone and i was feeling ok, but from this morning all that is back.
I`ll continue with salt water and i`ll increase it to 2 or 3 times a day. I have ordered some ALA and Chlorella also.
I dont have an idea what this could be. I`ll try to add some carbs and see the reaction. First time symptoms disappeared when i have done that.

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Laura said:

Konstantin said:

Laura said:

Your symptoms really do sound like bromide detoxing.

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I really dont know. I`m off iodine for almost a month. Maybe iodine have mobilized something into my body and now its making problems.Few days ago i posted that all symptoms are gone and i was feeling ok, but from this morning all that is back.
I`ll continue with salt water and i`ll increase it to 2 or 3 times a day. I have ordered some ALA and Chlorella also.
I dont have an idea what this could be. I`ll try to add some carbs and see the reaction. First time symptoms disappeared when i have done that.

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Re-read on the iodine thread what Joe went through for WEEKS. Pretty much the same thing with spells in between of relative calm. He did the heavy metals text and is focused on detoxing.

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What have I learned so far in my 2015 biohack? Why are summer time high fat diets not a great thing to do chronically across all seasons? High fat diets force the use of mitochondria because they are oxidative powerhouses for fat. But what if you are designed to be loosely coupled by your mtDNA haplotype. If you have a Northern Europe haplotype you are loosely coupled. People who are loosely coupled are set up to have higher levels of mitochondrial heteroplasmy. As heteroplasmy increase disease phenotypes morph dramatically. But what if your mitochondria functionally suck = %heteroplasmy?

If that is the case you must first optimize the things a mitochondria uses to recycle via mitophagy. Heteroplasmy implies altered O2 levels called pseudohypoxia and UV light assimilation via our surfaces to maintain NAD+ levels at cytochrome 1 NADH couple. What does that mean if you have a high percentage of heteroplasmy in your mitochondria? = real bad mito-nuclear coaptation = poor redox. What does it mean for good coaptation? It means you burn fat well and you need very little food to sustain yourself because you assimilate photons and electrons from the sun and magnetic field by grounding so well. High carb foods only grow in high UV environments so electrons from carbohydrates should carry higher photonic power. So how does this translate to biochemistry? High carbohydrate diets provide more energy by fermentation because of these highly powered electrons, without causing humans actually needing to use their badly functioning mitochondria. Bacteria tend to like this situation. Where are bacteria in your body? Every surface where you assimilate light. How to do bacteria and your mitonuclear coapatation work together? Here is clue: those with mitochondrial diseases who have "adopted, used, and advocated" long term ketogenic diets have been known to collapse into coma because their damaged mitochondria can't provide enough energy needed for a conscious state. When you have a high percentage of heteroplasmy ketosis can actually hurt you. This is not well appreciated by the LCHF food guru's. Mitochondria actually cannot function physiologically to generate energy for us neurologically without help from fermentation when heteroplasmy is elevated.

Environmentally broken paleo advocates use and advocate carbs for that reason. Environmentally broken LCHF folks just get sicker as time evolves because they cannot replace mitochondria and/or DHA fast enough to offset their environment toxicity and they allow their mitochondria to face. Could we hack heteroplasmy? Yep. Some might begin to advocate temporary nicotine use when they are completely stalled and spinning their wheels. Why might nicotine work in this hack? What other cofactors would make nicotine work even better? Methylene blue could be a huge boost. Methylene blue is a MAO inhibitor and you learned about them in Time 6 and 7. MG can affect all the levels of endogenous biogenic amines. So if you are taking drugs that interact with this axis you need to be careful. MB can therefore can interact with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) and MAO inhibitors to cause serious serotonin toxicity or serotonin syndrome. What about nicotine? Nicotine works best with good O2 consumption by mitochondria and strong natural full spectrum sunlight.

Most nicotine users smoke so they never see the optimized effect of nicotine because of co-morbid lung disease from smoking. We can use a nicotrol inhaler to offset that risk. Most people who are sick rarely go out in the sun because their doctors or their beliefs keep them ignorant of basic physics. Going out in the sun makes us feel well because it causes release of beta endorphin from our skin. Runners get a high from this but the high is always greater in natural light. So how might nicotine work when O2 and UV light are optimized in your bio-hack? Nicotine slightly increases glucose levels to give a small superoxide pulse. This pulse make the perfect amount of singlet state ROS/superoxide to be the stimulus to lower the % of heteroplasmy in our cells. This small stimulus does two key things: 1. the small stimulus stimulates regeneration programs in us. 2. It stimulates mitophagy to recycle heteroplasmic poor functioning mitochondria to make new mitochondria and dig yourself out of the hole called mitochondria senescence. You cannot get the superoxide pulse without the O2 or the UV exposure.

Did you know that DHA in your RBC's in skin arterioles 7-10 AM allows you to absorb even more UV light? This is possible because UVA light stimulates nitric oxide that vasodilators the skin arterioles to come closer to the surface so that UV light can be absorbed by porphyrins and hemoglobin in RBC's. UVB light penetrates only 0.1 mm. UVA penetrates 1-3 mm so to get UV light RBC's have to move toward the surface and they do because of the light nitric oxide couple. This is also why light makes plants move toward light too. If you're anemic, hypoxic, or diabetic, your fighting an uphill battle because your % of heteroplasmy is getting larger than it was when you were younger. Diseases can manifest just from the slow increase of heteroplasmy in mitochondria. But we can reverse the process if we get the natural details correct of how light works with chemicals in our body. Few people have that discipline in their bio-hacks. Some do. That is why we share what we have learned. All people as they age, they acquire this same kind of mito-nuclear coaptation dysfunction because as redox lowers, mitochondria uncouple and get more leaky and heteroplasmy increases. The major difference in aging compared to disease generation is that an aging person has a slower timescale of the development of heteroplasmy compared to those who develop illnesses at a younger age. The % of heteroplasmy is slower in natural aging, but faster in neolithic diseases in today's modern humans 20-40 years old. Their environment is driving the increased % heteroplasmy = many diseases. MB and nicotine can be used to combat this process.

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Dr. Jack Kruse Wyatt ketosis is a seasonal approach.......autumn winter is fine.......but you need the carb superoxide pulse to recycle and get rid of bad mitochondria in summer. When you do it......you must get full spectrum light via eye and skin while being barefoot and connected to earth drinking good water. That is it.

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By: Angel
The reason for humans to have less hair is because they came out of the water
Ever seen a hairy sea animal?

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Divide By Zero said:

Kruse is still an enigma to me. His ideas sound interesting, but some things he doesn't seem to look into- like the smoking being harmful.

The nicotine connection with oxygen and red blood cells has been known. I wonder why isn't he talking about the effects on the brain? Sure, the energy system matters a lot, but so do other processes.

Although I don't subscribe to ketosis as even Paleo caused me issues without carbs, how can he group everyone into the same requirements? I think some body types do well on it and the rest of us do well with moderation and balance. The key thing is to avoid the wheat/grains/corn and dairy, which in another article are explained as the original GMOs, even before biotech firms butchered DNA.

On sott, someone commented on the naked ape hypothesis article that says it was for UV. There was back and forth about other factors that were ignored and wrong assumptions of everyone originating from Africa (which in genetic testing I heard has not been proven!) It also doesn't make sense that melanin acts like chlorphyll. If that is the case, darker skin should be up north where there is less light, in order to soak up more uv, and the lighter skin in sunny areas where harvesting this is less difficult. I'm confused.

There was one comment that pointed out the aquatic ape hypothesis, which in the iodine thread might explain why our systems need more iodine (which is more by coastlines, in the oceans too):

By: Angel
The reason for humans to have less hair is because they came out of the water
Ever seen a hairy sea animal?

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Fur seals

Fur seals have visible ears on the outside of their heads, unlike earless seals. Like sea lions and walruses, fur seals use their front flippers to sit up straight and can turn forward their back flippers. This means that they can walk, and even run in a clumsy way, on dry land. Fur seals have dense fur and a thick layer of blubber, or fat, under the skin. Together, the fur and blubber keep the fur seal dry and warm, even when underwater. The males are up to three times heavier than the females. Male fur seals arrive first at the breeding ground, which is usually on a rocky island, and fight for space to control. When the females arrive, about five females join each male.

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Konstantin said:

Yesterday evening i added just a little carbs . Pain in the pancreas area i better this morning. Body shaking and heart palpitations are intensified so I could not sleep well the whole night.
This morning i noticed a pain in the left upper side of the thyroid. Same as it was the first time. Same spot, same pain, same symptoms just a little less intense. Also behind that painful spot on the thyroid i can feel my throat very sore.

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THE LEPTIN RX POSTSCRIPT
1. Plan on eating a straightforward primal/Paleo template as outlined in the those books mentioned in Chapter Three. If you are very active you can add carbohydrates from 10-30 percent of your diet. The diet is still a high-fat, moderate-protein Paleo template outlined in the Paleo books.
2. Within one hour of rising, eat 50 percent of your daily carbs with 25 grams of protein and 20-30 grams of fat.
3. Never miss breakfast because it stimulates the circadian rhythm for gastric acid secretion in adults. This will become critical later in the day for body composition optimization.
4. Avoid working out prior to breakfast. It is a circadian cycle breaker because it raises cortisol at a time it is already high.
[...]
8. Dinner should be eaten within 45 minutes to 1 hour of this late afternoon work out. If you are leptin sensitive you can eat dinner this early and go comfortably without eating until breakfast the next day. During dinner you want to make sure to include a lot of protein (25-75 grams), the remainder of your carb allotment, and the balance in fats. The type of fats at dinner are also critical but are typical in a primal template. Try to concentrate on 10-18 carbon fatty acids because these are best at stimulating cholecystokinin (CCK), which destroys the nighttime appetite. I use coconut oil, ghee, pastured butter, and bacon lard to get this effect. I use the fat to cover the carbs and the protein most times in sauces.
[...]
KEY POINTS TO KEEP IN MIND ABOUT POST LEPTIN RX CHANGES:
1. High protein consumption occurs at night now, not at breakfast as it did in the Leptin Rx reset. The reason is because late afternoon is when the human body is normally programmed to undergo upregulation of protein synthesis biochemically. This is how our biology is designed by God or evolution. If you remember, earlier I told you to eat half your carbs and a small protein load (about 25 grams) to prime the gastric acid circadian cycle for maximal effect later in the day. This is precisely the reason why. Gastric pH should be highest when we are eating our biggest protein load of the day, while simultaneously upregulating protein synthesis in our body. This maneuver actually influences our body composition more than any exercise could, if it were added to the equation at all. Doing this on time is akin to an orchestra playing in unison. It is a huge point to try to follow daily.
2. Carbohydrate consumption should parallel activity and light cycles. I often hear many in the primal world talk about carbs and activity. They always forget about the light cycle. If you are very active and work out more than four days a week in sunlight, you can handle 30 percent of your calories from carbs. If not, consider a 10-20 percent range. The closer I get to June 21st, the more carbs I eat, and as I move closer to Dec 21st, I am at a zero-carb diet. I give this to you as a baseline to work from. It is not meant for you to copy exactly as I do.

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3. After the 4 hours of darkness, melatonin secretion increases and this allows plasma leptin to enter the hypothalamus if we are sensitive to its receptor. If we are resistant, this process can no longer occur. Once leptin enters and binds to its receptors, it affects the lateral hypothalamic tracts to immediately send a second messenger signal to the thyroid to signal it to up-regulate thyroid function and efficiency. This specifically is how we can raise our basal metabolic rate when we are leptin sensitive. The leptin receptor is an electron accountant. These coupled events, matched with leptin’s actions peripherally in muscles, occur at the UCP3 sites to burn fat as we sleep at a higher basal metabolic rate. Energy added to the system changes how the biochemistry actually works by compliant design mechanisms. This is a macroscopic quantum effect in sleep. This means electron chain transport does not make ATP as usual, but electrons are still reducing oxygen. ATP is not made because the ATPase loses its ability to rotate within the inner mitochondrial membrane.

When uncoupling occurs, we make heat and not energy from normal metabolism. This heat a part of light in the infrared part of the spectrum. This means we will burn off our excess calories as pure heat. In other words, we lose light and it affects water adjacent to the mitochondrial surface. This is one reason why calories in and calories out argument makes no biologic sense once you understand how leptin works. Humans are built to burn fat at night as we sleep to lose excess weight we don’t need. The timing of the leptin action is also critical. It usually occurs between 12-2 AM and is tied to when you last ate and how much darkness your eyes have seen. This generally occurs soon after our hypothalamus releases another hormone called prolactin from our pituitary gland in the brain. The prolactin surge does not happen if the patient has sleep apnea or ate some carbs to close to bedtime. If you eat any carbs and protein within 4 hours of sleep you will never see the prolactin surge because any spike in insulin turns off this critical release. Ok, you must be asking why is this prolactin hormone so important? Is not prolactin just a hormone to secrete human milk, doc? That is not the only action of prolactin. Immediately after prolactin is released at this time, another signal is sent to the anterior pituitary to release Growth Hormone (GH). GH is stimulated only during autophagic sleep cycles in stage 3 and 4 to increase protein synthesis for muscle growth all while you’re dissipating heat. This is the major release of GH in humans post puberty. The implications here are huge. If you are LR and have sleep apnea you will have an altered body composition because of a low GH level. This occurs because you are losing electrons from your tissues during sleep and they swell. This impedes your ability to breathe well to get oxygen to your mitochondria. It means as you age you have higher body fat and lower muscle mass. This is precisely what we see in humans as they age and invariably their sleep is also poor.

The reduced temperature induced by melatonin in sleep is needed for Central Nervous System autophagic repair for another less well known reason. The lowered temperature sets the stage for the biologic quantum effects to be optimal on neuron microtubules that facilitate learning and neuronal spouting that occur brain wide. This is why if you don’t sleep well you feel badly and your performance suffers the next few days on tasks. Research also shows your learning is severely impaired. This is tied to breakdown of cell membrane electron transfer to microtubules. The mechanism involves alteration of small proteins connected to the cell membrane of neurons. This is why we monitor truck drivers and airline pilots sleep and wake cycles by law! Moreover, in hospitalized patients or the elderly when this occurs, it sets the stage for the appearance of acute onset delirium. We see this often in hospitalized patients who can not sleep well in ICU’s. Acute delirium states very much look the same as chronic sleep deprivation patients we see clinically as well.

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