Advertising Idea - Asking for Permission to use SoTT Banner

Appollynon

Jedi Master
Hello there SoTT Team

I've been thinking of a few ideas recently on how to help get the word out about the SoTT website and do a little more to help. I have had the idea of using T-shirt printers to print a modest amount of T-shirts (maybe 40-100 or so, or as many as I can afford to order to try it out the first time) which a friend of mine and I would give out for free on a busy weekend in our local town centre/s to the curious passers by.

I was toying with what I would include as a printed design on the t-shirts, my first thought was the website address and something such as the V mask many of us have a fondness for (to grap peoples attention). However my own attempts to find a suitable V mask image to use and to incorporate the SoTT web address have been rather amatuer and lacking in style. I wondered if I could ask for the permission of the owner/creator of the SoTT website banner (with the nicely incorporated V masks) if I could take a copy of the banner design to print on the T-shirts? If this request is granted, I would also like to know if it would be okay to slighty alter the image, simply to add a .org, on the end of the SoTT text? I say this as there are other websites that use the SoTT addresses that end in .com or .co.uk (one dating, and another for logo printing) and I would rather send people to the right place. Also using the banner logo would let people know they were in the right place when they get here if they are curious enough to look.

I'm also going to have a jacket printed on (for my own personal use) so that I could advertise the site wherever I wear it and answer people's questions or direct them to the site if they show an interest in the address.

My friend has had an idea for having many leaflets printed out and handing them out around a few local town centres, but I think she may have her own artwork for this. I belive she is thinking of including the site address on these hand-outs, and just wanted to make sure thats OK?

If there are any issues with copyright I'll continue to try and produce my own image for printing. But I thought it would be the polite (or right) thing to do to let the SoTT team know and ask for permission to advertise the site in this way.

Any feedback on my idea would be appreciated.

Thanks for keeping the lighthouse shining for us to steer our way through the storm.
 
I think it's a great idea - I think universities would be a good 'target'. Taking it further, the idea of selling sott-design T-shirts to raise funds for sott, really appeals, though doing this on an unofficial basis I suppose could cause complications. I can't answer your copyright/usage etc questions either. maybe best wait for some input from the crew.

have you seen the various 'promote SOTT' postcard graphics? they are quite striking. Some of them have actually been used as flyer designs already, and one that seems to strike a nerve with the public is: 'Psychopaths rule our world'

if you haven't seen them, then I'll look up a URL. I'm not sure exactly where they are right now, but I'm sure they are somewhere around on the sott/cass sites.
 
The link is on the right hand side of the Signs page, click on the image of V/Fawkes telling us to remember the 5th of November.

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/promote_sott.php
 
Thanks for the idea of selling T-shirts to raise funds for SoTT Sleepyvinny, I had never thought of that and it is a great idea. My thought about giving the t-shirts away was that people may not be very open to buying something like t-shirts about the SoTT unless they knew already what the SoTT was about, although selling them very, very cheaply might work.

I have already made a few posters of the images on the promote the signs page, and stuck them up in the college I attend on day release from work. I thought that the banner idea may work better than for example the psychopathy image as I have found in general that people tend not to want to discuss psychopathy if I bring up the subject. So there may be a few people who would not like to wear a t-shirt with the psychopathy image emblazened on the T-shirt.

I think I will maybe try 2 or 3 designs now and leave the choice of design up to the team/forumites here , I'll try the psychopathy image, the Crop Circles (as it makes me laugh everytime I read it) and the banner as well. I will get in touch with a printing company in the next day or two as time permits and see if I can order 3 single t-shirts with the design ideas to se what looks better. I'll ask someone to photograph the t-shirts on me and post the images on site to see what design people think works the best. Hopefully if I order them in the next day or two they should arrive within a week, and I'll ask again for peoples opinions.

Thanks for you input beau and Sleepyvinny, I'll hopefully have the designs soon.
 
Appollynon,

With a quantity as small as 40-100 shirts, I think the only chance you would have of getting the SotT postcard graphics onto a shirt and looking something like they do on the monitor would be to use transfers. Lots of shirt printers have oversized equipment for making large transfers, and they don't come off in the wash like they used to. Well, not if they're done properly.

The SotT postcard graphics are well done, but most of them wouldn't reproduce well as graphics for direct textile screenprinting unless you use a very expensive color separation process which would include 8-10 colors minimum, most likely more (and some of them would definitely have to be custom matched colors). That would probably mean utilizing 10-12 stations minimum on a big automatic printer. Big quantities only for that kind of pre-press and set-up work!

K
 
I think this is a wonderful way of promoting SOTT and everything they are trying to expose to the public. The messages on the banners are cleverly designed such that they would "hook" most people who see them displayed on a noticeboard somewhere, and a reasonable percentage of these people may very well visit the website.

That said, I really wish more attention to detail was used, and I am particularly referring to a lack of punctuation. As someone who is a perfectionist, and who can spot incorrectly punctuated text in an instant (I have done my fair share of proof-reading over the years), I spotted 8 instances where an apostrophe was not used where it should have been. Call me pedantic and trivial, but no matter how important the content of the message conveyed, it is also important that it is conveyed in the clearest, and most correct, manner possible. I know many people who would be really annoyed and put off by something as trivial as a lack of an apostrophe, and may even dismiss the far more important message (by constructing the flawed equation: lack of punctuation = lack of education = lack of anything substantial in message), and so you can't give such people a reason to ignore said message.

Anyway, if anyone is actually reading this, you might like to fix the following:

In the "Psychopaths Rule the World" banner, world's needs an apostrophe.

In the banner that quotes Orwell and Huxley, child's mind, needs an apostrophe (this was used three times); adult's mind needs an apostrophe; and what's going on needs an apostrophe.

In the "There is Still Time" banner, the phrase but don't want you needs an apostrophe; as does soon we won't need you.

In the "Are Our Lives Over?" banner, a hyphen is required in the compound adjective much-needed.
 
I have actually printed 2 t-shirts, one with the hope soap and the psychopaths rule our world one. They were pretty expensive for me to print more, but i wear them often, especially when i go to public places. People do ask sometimes, and i get the opportunity to tell them about sott. I'd like to know if you see any visitors from cyprus on sott :)

3rd-density-resident said:
I know many people who would be really annoyed and put off by something as trivial as a lack of an apostrophe, and may even dismiss the far more important message (by constructing the flawed equation: lack of punctuation = lack of education = lack of anything substantial in message), and so you can't give such people a reason to ignore said message.
Hey, i didn't even notice the "omissions" you talk about! :shock:
 
Usually in Graphic Arts you drop apostrophes unless they make it look better. Though I haven't seen the banners you are talking about. You should also read that book about intelligence gathering, where he points out the ways that people automatically correct grammatical errors without even thinking about them.

And it can be seen as kinda progressive as english spelling and grammar are simplifying to balance the extensive amount of vocabulary. Thirdly; I highly doubt that anyone would use said formula (lack of punctuation = lack of education = lack of anything substantial in message).

And Finally:

I don't think that shirts are the way to go, no one's ever asked me for info on a shirt, and most people don't really pay attention to someone's shirt beyond whether or not it's the same or different from their own shirts.

My personal recommendation is to print some stickers with some questions on them and start sticking them to the right or the left wall, or directly in front on the door of public restrooms. The questions should not be preachy and you shouldn't give answers, just try to draw out their inner questions. Sorta like Geordi's and Data's plan for the Borg. A statement evaluates to true or false, people either accept it, or they don't. Here you are fighting mind programming, they have been given criteria by which to measure things, so you are really fighting an uphill battle. But a question gets past this in a person's mind, they have to evaluate it to a conclusion. Most people just shunt these questions to the back of their minds, but that's okay, we are in it for the long term, we just want to plant seeds that can be activated later. As we implant more and more questions in peoples minds they begin to feed off each other, and when new information finally gets through, due to a traumatic event usually, then all of those questions will explode to the front.

So really you are building a domino effect of questions, when each one is answered it triggers others and so on.

For instance, you could just make a sticker that says: "What is Zionism?"

This is a good one because people already have a hook in their minds from the Matrix. You are just gonna hand this question right on that hook.

How about: "How can second hand smoke be worse than first hand?"

or: "How could someone who could not fly a Cessna, fly a 747?"

And: "Why did the Twin Towers not fall over?"

Further: "Why did the Bible call it the Conspiracy of Zion? (Isaiah 34:8)"

Then: "If god is loving, then how could he kill children and babies? (Exodus)"

And on and on. Just challenge people's paradoxes. Where ever you think someone has accepted information leading to a paradox or dilemma, challenge it. Insert a question that will eat away at the problem, one that is so simple, and worded like they would word something in their minds.

Remember, people talk to themselves in different ways, when they are weak they say "I shoulda, I woulda, Man, I really needa do this." When they are stiff, strong, they say you: "You must, you have got to, you really need to", and when they are pensive, they think: "On should, One needs, One ought to..."

So then you can start making things that mimic the way a person talks to themselves, like:

"I wanna know what really happened on 911, You have to find the answers; because, one should always look for the truth!!!"

The great thing about putting these in bathrooms is, people will read them over and over.

You can also use some other tricks, like icons, forinstance, make a sticker red and white in the shape of a stop sign. Or one of those Slow, Children Playing signs next to the question about the firstborn thing. etc.

You could also just go down to the store and get address labels and print questions out and stick them on park benches, on the ground right in front of park benches, up under a toilette seats (eww), on the fronts of paper machines, coke machines, grafitti etc etc. You can get them printed as bumper stickers and put them onto other peoples cars (wear gloves), in bathrooms, in public areas, anywhere.

Any, just some ideas, if you need, when Barry gets back I will have him give you access to the images he uses so you can make shirts if you really want too.

Which gives me another idea, you could fake them like they are announcements from real companies. Like do one that really looks like it's from Mcdonald's saying "Did you know that we use most of the money donated to the Ronald McDonald House for booze and prostitutes? Brought to you by: The Ronald McDonald House - Using anonymous starving orphans to bilk you since 1973."

Anyway, Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
 
"anti-semite. anti-gentile. any difference?"

"is killing ok, if God told you to do it?"

"ever tried flying a boeing into a heavily fortified pentagon?"

"global warming on mars. who dunnit?"

"do you REALLY believe all Arabs are evil and stupid?"

"what if the bible had a typo?"

"have you paid your bullet tax?"

"Tony Blair, final term. Saved by the bell?"

"Do I get to check Tony Blair's ID card?"

"is genocide ok, if it doesn't get on telly?"

"do you really tell more lies than Tony Blair?"

"George Bush. could YOU be that stupid and still get away with it?"

"who stole my democracy?"

"nuclear weapons. a great idea, right?"

"what did Hitler have against smoking, anyway?"

"what would happen if they called a war and nobody came?"

"all you need is love. and bullets. and propaganda"

"what is the matrix?"

"who decides which religion is true?"

"why do psychopaths rule our world?"
 
atreides said:
I don't think that shirts are the way to go, no one's ever asked me for info on a shirt, and most people don't really pay attention to someone's shirt beyond whether or not it's the same or different from their own shirts.
Unless you live in Cyprus, the land of people who weigh you by what you wear and how you look, where what you wear always makes topic for conversation. Sad, but true.

Great ideas though atreides and sleepyvinny.
 
atreides said:
Usually in Graphic Arts you drop apostrophes unless they make it look better.
Well that's news to me. 80% of all the banners I've ever seen adhere to the English language quite well, apostrophes included. The omission of apostrophes makes banners look worse, in fact, which I guess is why they're retained by most graphic artists. Hence it is the exception, not the rule, that apostrophes are dropped. (And quite often they are dropped out of ignorance of the English language, evidenced by the fact that apostrophes are still used in the same banner, but quite often in the WRONG places.)

You should also read that book about intelligence gathering, where he points out the ways that people automatically correct grammatical errors without even thinking about them.
Which book would that be? It sounds interesting, and I know that sometimes grammatical errors are deliberately inserted for impact or a double meaning. However in most instances, it is due to a poor command of English.

And it can be seen as kinda progressive as english spelling and grammar are simplifying to balance the extensive amount of vocabulary.
I fail to see anything "progressive" about droping punctuation which oftentimes makes a message more complicated, and certainly not more simple. One could argue that the dropping of punctuation is similar to, if not indicative of, the dumbing down of the English language, one of the themes of Orwell's 1984. The fact that many people don't even know that important punctuation is missing in a piece of text is evidence of this I would think.

Thirdly; I highly doubt that anyone would use said formula (lack of punctuation = lack of education = lack of anything substantial in message).
Well that's certainly debatable. Many academic "snobs" might well think this; I've heard people make comments like this in the past. Then again, I guess these are only a very small minority of the population.

Anyhow, all of that aside, I think many of your banner suggestions are a very good idea. A simple question is often all that is required to evoke a response in someone to the point that they'll do their OWN research. It's not even necessary to direct them to a website, because these days most people already now how to "Google" a term. And I think that in many ways, this is a better way of doing things, because it teaches people how to discover things for themselves, learning in the process, without them feeling they've been "talked into" or "coerced" into something. Like you said, sometimes all it takes is the planting of a seed in someone's mind for future activation.

I have often thought of doing stickers myself, and just randomly sticking them around certain places. One time when I was printing out Adventures with Cassiopaea at my university campus, I left some of the duplicated pages on a table for hopefully open-minded students to discover; in fact I was tempted to just leave the entire book hidden in a bookshelf somewhere, but realised it'd probably get discovered by a conservative librarian and trashed. And besides, it took a lot of paper to print that thing out!
 
I think Atreides was referring to this:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=2569

wherein there's a link to Psychology of Intelligence Analysis
 
atreides said:
Usually in Graphic Arts you drop apostrophes unless they make it look better. Though I haven't seen the banners you are talking about. You should also read that book about intelligence gathering, where he points out the ways that people automatically correct grammatical errors without even thinking about them.

And it can be seen as kinda progressive as english spelling and grammar are simplifying to balance the extensive amount of vocabulary.

Thirdly; I highly doubt that anyone would use said formula (lack of punctuation = lack of education = lack of anything substantial in message).
Three strikes and you're out! Wrong on all three!

Progressive???

Don't ever drop apostrophes. It bugs the hell out of people who grew up before text messaging. Although it's not as bad as putting in ones that don't belong (e.g., "putting in one's that don't belong").

And yes, too many grammatical errors do tend to undermine the authority of the writer.

And don't get me started on spell-check.
 
Let me clarify a bit. What dropping apostrophes can do is dilute clarity of thinking. There is a clear difference in meaning between "the books" and "the book's" If you drop the apostrophe you are being lazy and making the reader work harder to untangle the ambiguity. Lack of external consideration, I think.
 
FWIW, I don't mind the missing apostrophes in the banners. Aren't we getting a little too OCD about the punctuation? I didn't notice them until it was pointed out, and even then I had to look closer. I have seen those makeshift paragraphs where only the first and last letters of the words are correct and I can still make out the word, so how important is an apostrophe, especially when the real focus of the banners is the overall message displayed by the images and the words? Words like Don't and Won't and World's have the same meaning essentially, even without apostrophes. OSIT.


edit: I see there is an apostrophe in the banner Wish You Weren't Here. The words are more prominently displayed in that banner, so maybe that was part of the decision.
 
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