Kundalini

I find it annoying that lots of sex energy is wasted during peoples lives and excess is just being gobbled up by Lizzies.

Gurdjieff and Mouravieff seemed to know the original functioning of the sex center in humans. I mean a useful esoteric/energetic transmutative or other clever application and not the rarely needed reproductive activity. Frequent sex seems a total waste of life force for just enjoyment. Maybe it would be a good question for the C's in the next session:

- What is the original function of the Sex Center in the human model by design?
- Can you describe an exercise to help utilize the original function of sex center?
- Is there an activity, something like EE to use sex energy in a more aware manner?
- Maybe some exercise helping to tip the scale of the state of emotional center from negative toward positive?

A slowly working exercise perfect for everybody - to help people reform themselves to be more ordered and less entropic - bringing results gradually for those who practice: results like suddenly seeing a need to do some important work that a person postponed [indefinitely].

Would be a godsend, especially for younger people. Like EE or that walking on a treadmill and visualizing. Some way, that if done would gradually result in diminished arousal and use of SI-12 (if available) for higher aim or regeneration/rejuvenation or for a hitherto unknown useful purpose. That maybe would result in something remotely resembling to what Eddie felt in Limitless?

How about redirecting for organ tissue repair, immune system boost? So sex energy doesn't go to waste.

There was a good polish movie titled Sex mission. (1986) Propagating the idea of the Council of Women. In that future society if someone felt horny, they could take a pill and the pill transformed hornyness into an urge to work:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088083/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl

Also we must mention Wilhelm Reich research on orgasm. According to Reich, this releases so-called orgon energy, which probably corresponds to Gurdjieff's Si12. The beneficial effects of this for the body and mind are blocked by near-pervasive 'armoring,' i.e. physical and mental tensions arising from trauma. Outside of the human, orgon plays the function of an ordering principle in weather phenomena, for example. It is one among a gradation of 'intelligent energies' or 'hydrogens.'

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http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=678&lsel=S

A special exercise geared toward lifting this near-pervasive 'armoring,' i.e. physical and mental tensions arising from trauma and use orgone purposefully to become beneficial?

In Mouravieff's Gnosis, the physical aspect of sexuality is tied to spirituality via the idea of the polar couple. The polarity intensifies the production of Si12, which fills the motor and intellectual centers. Their functioning changes and the intellect temporarily loses its doubting, calculating and agnostic nature. The emotional center may transform Si12 to Sol12, which is a key to the higher emotional center. This can produce a flash of the consciousness of real I. Generally, Mouravieff argues that the superabundance of sexual energy in man is, besides a source of physical preoccupation, also the latent chance for esoteric evolution. Sexual energy is needed for the internal alchemy which opens the higher intellectual center. The sublimation of sexual energy involves conscious work of self-remembering and other practices.

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Reference: Centers, Higher
http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=906
(Also Fulcanelli worked with a lot of symbols. Maybe a sign of a connected Higher Emotional Center.)

How about not going for entropy? A more conscious individual could go for order/information redirecting frequently arising sexual energies not only by Work, but also by simple exercise, resembling somewhat to EE, but geared specially toward clever usage of spontaneously arising sex energy?

Thank you, lilies, for an excellent post on the topic.

I think, however, and based on long observation, that until a person's "being" develops to a certain level, they are simply stuck with that physically focused energy. It may take many lifetimes where it is burned - and burns - before the individuality begins to solidify and rises above it.

I would say that if a person wants sex all the time, they should go away and do it until they are burned out and then come back and work on the self. Because, for sure, if it is bigger than you are, and it drives your thinking, there's not much work you can do of any lasting value.

Laura said:

Lidia V. said:

I read something about tantra and it stroke me that people who pracitise this – may have sex for hours. I could not understand what for is to have sex for hours. It is for pleasure so it is like taking ecstasy which is a drug.

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There ARE spiritual reasons for such practice but presence of the correct circumstances is extremely rare so I won't explain it.

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Perphaps the third sentence from this fragment would be more accurate if I wrote it in this way" If it is for pleasure (self gratification) - it is like taking ecstasy which is a drug."

Perhaps it is a matter of intention...

Here are 2 quotes from C's session, found here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,686.msg27797.html#msg27797

Q: I guess his idea is that is if you are gonna give up sex,
you ought to also give up smoking because they are both
physical cravings. Or, that if smoking is okay, then sex
ought to also be okay. I am not altogether clear on the
perspective. I did write back that my understanding was
that it is not sex, per se, that was bad, but rather the
drive for self gratification that was feeding STS.
A: True.


"(...) one must remember that this is just inspiration for research, not holy writ"



Thor,
thank you very much for your sincere response. Regarding "the second level in desire for pleasure", you called it "subconscious motivation" which is a more accurate expression. As I can see, for you it was a fundamental lack of self worth, striving for perfection, craving for more energy and need of somebody else's love, all based on addiction. I think you show a responsible approach because it takes a real courage to admit to shortcomings/failures, especially by men who were mostly brought up to be strong and do not show feelings.

I agree with Laura that the energy needs to be burnt out. Seems that you probably did this. I have also burnt mine, also not in a very safe way...

Goodluck :)


P.S. I knew a person who was engaged in practising sexual Qigong and somehow knew, that there are more basic and subconscious reasons for doing such exercises (it was mostly an online acquaintance) . When I tried couple of times to point out possible motivation to help this person leave the illusion (actually based mostly on my intuition) - he simply went silent and finished the acquaintance. The conclusions I mentioned in my previous post came from this experience.

[quote author=lilies]I find it annoying that lots of sex energy is wasted during peoples lives and excess is just being gobbled up by Lizzies.

Gurdjieff and Mouravieff seemed to know the original functioning of the sex center in humans. I mean a useful esoteric/energetic transmutative or other clever application and not the rarely needed reproductive activity. Frequent sex seems a total waste of life force for just enjoyment. Maybe it would be a good question for the C's in the next session:
...
A slowly working exercise perfect for everybody - to help people reform themselves to be more ordered and less entropic - bringing results gradually for those who practice: results like suddenly seeing a need to do some important work that a person postponed [indefinitely].

Would be a godsend, especially for younger people. Like EE or that walking on a treadmill and visualizing. Some way, that if done would gradually result in diminished arousal and use of SI-12 (if available) for higher aim or regeneration/rejuvenation or for a hitherto unknown useful purpose. That maybe would result in something remotely resembling to what Eddie felt in Limitless?
[/quote]

I'll try and see if I can answer some of your questions.

According to Reich, this releases so-called orgon energy, which probably corresponds to Gurdjieff's Si12. The beneficial effects of this for the body and mind are blocked by near-pervasive 'armoring,' i.e. physical and mental tensions arising from trauma. Outside of the human, orgon plays the function of an ordering principle in weather phenomena, for example. It is one among a gradation of 'intelligent energies' or 'hydrogens.'

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Gurdjieff said something equivalent in ISOTM: that the sex centre can do magnificent things when it works with its own energy, but that buffers completely arrest its function and expression in a natural way. G states categorically that the sex center's energy is used either for transmutation or procreation, and that any invention in this realm is dangerous, and a sign of pathology. This leads to sex abuse, which is when the lower centres use sexual energy for their own ends (and thus raise entropy). I don't think there's anything wrong with lower centres using higher energy in and of itself, but the problem is that a Man-Without-Quotation-Marks is meant to produce the higher hydrogens Sol12 and Mi12 from having a healthy neuropsychology (which you can get from Eiriu Eolas) and acquiring knowledge. It is these two things which resonate with the energy of Si12, allowing that energy to serve a constructive and creative function. The "transmuation" part comes from the fact that this objective knowledge, higher emotion, and drive can certainly transform ourselves and the world around us. But without Mi12 and Si12, the energy of Si12 is rudderless and is spent on programs and other accidental acquisitions.

Bioenergetics is a body discipline that developed out of studying orgon energy, and is designed to help remove muscular armouring, or the variety of external and internal postures and tensions which restricts the life force within us. It is in the Eiriu Eolas program, but if you were more serious about specifically helping balance the sex centre, you could try looking into other bioenergetic techniques...

From my own experience, I have an average appetite, but consistently doing EE, meditating, and gaining knowledge seems to raise my energy level while decreasing my sexual drive. In a non-working mode of being I could feel emotional/physical pressure to hook up or whatever, but when I'm consistent in reading and doing breathing/meditation exercises, that kind of pressure merely feels like an emotional consideration, perhaps related to narcissism, desire to be liked by someone, being an object of desire, etc. The physical aspect of it is still present, but is extremely docile and obedient to what my emotional and mental centre dictate. It doesn't co-opt my thinking/feeling to justify/organize reproduction any longer.

I have practised chastity before, and the above certainly is what made it manageable. Any lapses in doing the work, and the sexual pressure immediately begins to make itself felt again, because the Si12 once again has no guidance from knowledge or heart-centered action/thought. It's in these situations I start to wiseacre like crazy or have intense positive or negative emotions relating to certain people and causes. Gurdjieff said that if we are to practice chastity, there must be chastity in all centres. There can be no chastity in one centre and free reigning in others, since that makes the machine further lopsided.

I thought I’d share what I’ve learnt about kundalini from talking to my yoga teacher who is an Indian yogi. I don’t know if it’s true but IMO it comes from a credible source. When I started reading the Wave series, I remember asking him about 4D entropic beings feeding off our psychic energies and he just smiled and said yes, they exist. So I think that he’s keyed in to at least some of the bigger picture.

As I understand it kundalini is a force that some people experience as part of their development. It is neither necessary nor sufficient for spiritual development.

When the kundalini energy rises through the spine through the different chakras different psychic powers can be awakened. The awakening of these powers can be seen like a STS test. You can use them and they work, but it is almost impossible to use them in a non-STS way. I recall Gurdijeff telling about how he forced himself to be on guard by not using the psychic powers that he’d achieved and used to impress women, get people to do what he wanted, etc. In other words, the answer is to not give in to the immense temptation of being able to do all kinds of special things.

Furthermore, from a developmental perspective, these psychic powers associated with kundalini are a quite low level of spiritual devlopment, so it’s like a third-grade kid dressing up in colleged graduation outfit, going around to the 1st and 2nd graders showing off omniously telling them that he’s graduated from 3rd grade, oblivious to the fact that there are many more grades above his own.

Wheter or not a person experiences an activation of kundalini energy is mostly determined by the persons karma. However, forcefull accidents can activate it and there are also techniques from yoga, tai chi, etc. that can be used to activate it. Such tecniques have become increasingly popular in the west (and also in India) where kundalini has become a spiritual buzzword that you can impress others with. Such techniques should never be taught outside a one-on-one teacher/student relationship, where the teacher has deemed that the student is sufficiently mature physically, psycologically and spiritually and will guide him/her through the process.

If a person for whatever reason starts to experience kundalini energy they should seek out a qualified spiritual teacher (yogi, tai chi master, etc.) who will be able to guide them in terms of diet, postures, breathing, etc. to handle this in a safe manner. If not handled correctly, the kundlini energy can wreak havoc on the body’s energy system and the persons mental state.

I am sure that there’s a lot more to it but for me it’s something that I don’t wish to mess with unless I can’t avoid and if so, I know who to call.

whitecoast said:

[..]
I have practised chastity before, and the above certainly is what made it manageable. Any lapses in doing the work, and the sexual pressure immediately begins to make itself felt again, because the Si12 once again has no guidance from knowledge or heart-centered action/thought. It's in these situations I start to wiseacre like crazy or have intense positive or negative emotions relating to certain people and causes. Gurdjieff said that if we are to practice chastity, there must be chastity in all centres. There can be no chastity in one centre and free reigning in others, since that makes the machine further lopsided.

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In the last couple of days I cleverly attempted to transmute hornyness - when I felt it was beginning.
First a stern, strict and disciplined decision must be made to tear myself away from [planning] entropy [causing activity], because I know:
1. I want to achieve amazing results by reinstating order throughout my consciousness.
2. I want to accomplish a good regular work.
3. I want to climb higher on the ladder of Being, because transmutation is full Work effort.

Vehemence was immediately noticeable in the moving center. Some medium to low strength anger crept into the emotional center and too wide swings of attention focus plagued the intellectual center half the time.

However I also had a LOT MORE ENERGY for doing my job - and was able to accomplish most of the work for the day. And there were no heart-palpitations from exhaustion. Exhaustion usually results in going toward entropy when hornyness begins, then after also desperately wanting to do a lot of work.. Well Gurdjieff taught that there is finite amount of energy in the accumulators so going for entropy is a bad idea.

So far not too bad. Care must be taken to not forget this aim, which forgetting usually happens as weeks go by.

lilies said:

What is the original function of the Sex Center in the human model by design?

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The quote below from an earlier session gives a headstart for thinking about it.

Session 13 July 2002 said:

Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?

A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

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And from the same session:

Session 13 July 2002 said:

Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?

A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.

Lower moving center - basal chakra

Lower emotional - sexual chakra

Lower intellectual - throat chakra

Higher emotional - heart chakra

Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.

{Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook" configuration.}

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Attached below is an image of the C's corrections of chakras and with Mouravieff's diagram of centers in man 1,2 & 3 (corrections of course welcome).

I think it's interesting to note that the classical sacral/sex chakra according to the C's is the lower emotional center. The most ill educated center of them all, with all its trauma, soaked in Kundalini. While the actual "Sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus which is normally associated with power and will. This power rather seems to represents the Creative force of the universe, the energy with which we can DO, if it wasn't hijacked by the confusion of the lower centers.

Parallel said:

Attached below is an image of the C's corrections of chakras and with Mouravieff's diagram of centers in man 1,2 & 3 (corrections of course welcome).

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Thanks, Parallel, for the excellent graphic showing the correlations between chakras and centers. I happened to be reviewing this a couple weeks ago, and these were the same ones that I came to as well, FWIW.

Shijing said:

Parallel said:

Attached below is an image of the C's corrections of chakras and with Mouravieff's diagram of centers in man 1,2 & 3 (corrections of course welcome).

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Thanks, Parallel, for the excellent graphic showing the correlations between chakras and centers. I happened to be reviewing this a couple weeks ago, and these were the same ones that I came to as well, FWIW.

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Yes, my thanks also. I usually forget this & mentally insert the "old model" that adds & rearranges the order/functions.

I'm not sure it would activate unless the aspirant was ready. May just be misinformation in order to dissuade people from moving forward.

Quasar said:

I'm not sure it would activate unless the aspirant was ready. May just be misinformation in order to dissuade people from moving forward.

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I think it is possible to induce those effects artificially by manipulating the energy flow through the meridians and chakras. That's what entheogenic drugs can also artificially do this, against the naturals inclinations.

EDIT: But I do agree that maybe some people can be too cautious about potentially exploring avenues that may encourage development. I held of on doing regular bioenergetic parts of the EE program early on for that reason. But then I swung in the other direction and started getting some symptoms. I think a happy medium exists somewhere, but it must be ascertained by networking and studying our own tolerances. :)

"Sure i will read one of his book if i can find one translated in french if ever and if not in english. I will read on before saying further more but even then.."

Sorry I dont know how to quote just a few lines and not the whole post yet.
I know its not by Gurdjieff but its a start:
http://www.amazon.com/Fragments-dun-enseignement-inconnu-Ouspensky/dp/B00D45BHMS/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393444172&sr=1-7&keywords=ouspensky+french

Quasar said:

I'm not sure it would activate unless the aspirant was ready. May just be misinformation in order to dissuade people from moving forward.

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I very much disagree. There are many self-help books and courses all over the world offering methods for activating kundalini.

My yogi says that in India it's a big problem since many people - both Westerners and Indians - take courses that promise kundalini activation in one week or one weekend. The techniques exist but are taken out of context and when applied they can activate kundalini in some people but if the person is not ready physically, mentally and spiritually, the can suffer long-term physical, emotional and mental problems.

I actually think that the very idea of wanting to activate kundalini energy is born out of the need to be special and have something others have not. I've been very interested in it myself for many years and while I told myself that I was only interested in it in order to progress spiritually, the subconscious truth was that I wanted to be better or more achieved than others and if I activated the kundalini energy it would be proof to me that I was better than others.

If it comes by itself you have to deal with it and as I've stated previously in this thread, I truly believe that the best thing to be done is to find a qualified yogi who is knowledgeable about such processes and take his/her advice very seriously.

This is just my perspective :)

Over the past couple of months I've started having private instructions in kundalini yoga with a personal trainer about once every 2 weeks. I've noticed that having a consistent daily practice of the kriyas I know (sat, kirtan, and nabhi mostly) drastically improves my mood (I'm still doing EE throughout this). I guess what I like the most about is that it combines good endurance exercise with breathing/bioenergetic work. The chanting portions that some of them have are really fun too, since they stimulate the vagus nerve.

I'm not entirely sure if the differences I've been noticing in my being afterward (by which I mean how I feel in my body, the strength of my attention, and sensitivity to other people's emotions) are due to some kind of kundalini energy, or if it's just an interaction between all the things cited above. Perhaps there isn't even a difference at all. Who knows.

I've been trying to work it out, but I think this is related to what happened to a friend/coworker recently:

One week he came in and was talking about how excited he was to try something called the God molecule over the weekend (which I believe is a very powerful entheogen called 5meoDMT). I did try to dissuade him from doing it. This is another question I have: at what point does giving advice become interfering with one's free will? Is it interfering if I was to say to him - "definitely do not try this because x/y/z...." or is it only interfering if I physically restrain him so that he couldn't do it?

Anyway he did it (and later that night went out and partied more), came back to work for a week, was noticeably different, then unexpectedly quit (he was one of the founders of this company and was the one who organized my employment).

I went over to his house that night and tried to get to the bottom of what happened to him. He claims to have experienced something or been in contact with someone that elevated his mind to the next level of consciousness. He says he has power coursing from above into his hands which he can then use to awaken other people. I tried to get him to explain his claims but he was unable to at a level that I was satisfied with (red flag). It's so strange because he is still himself, but it is obvious he has been co-opted by something that is causing him to think a certain way. He continually "gets messages" from something, but cannot explain specifically where it comes from. Is it possible that he is indeed receiving some "power" and what is it? If so I assume he is harming others when he "treats" them.

Some time has elapsed and I've spoken to him again. The good news is that he is open to listening to what I have to say but he is still deep in his illusion. I'm concerned about his rapid and drastic personality change, that he quit his job and is trusting the universe to provide for him without taking proper and sensible action to organize his life. He's been hanging out with some New-Agey types and has been making videos to 'awaken the masses', labeling himself a shamanic healer in the process.

Whenever I try to caution him he says that I'm "speaking from fear and doubt", and repeats the mantra "fear and doubt doesn't exist". He also likes to repeat the phrase "the answer is always yes". It's interesting because some of what he says I do agree with, he mentions the upcoming "awakening" and a few other things that are in line with the STO path like helping others, but he says he's a spiritual warrior here to help others elevate their minds to the next level of consciousness. He also says he needs to learn to reign in his ego which he asked me to help him with.

Can anyone advise me on what I can do to help him, if I can at all? The good news as I've stated is that he respects me and will honestly take on board anything that I say. I feel that I could maybe get through to him, but would there be risks with trying to 'separate' him from his illusion? He wants to hang out often but I do not want to further support or encourage the illusion. Whatever is giving him messages has also seemingly told him that anyone who tries to veer him off his path is an obstacle - self-fulfilling prophecy right there.. After our last talk he asked me to research Kundalini which brought me to this thread, which explained a lot about what happened to him. Unfortunately for him he is not going to enjoy what I have to say about it but I feel I need to try and explain to him what he is experiencing and hopefully help him break free of whatever has got him.

Any advice on steps to take? Or if I should get involved at all at trying to fix it? He claims that he wants to seek truth and increase knowledge. The question is does he really want to?