13 Twirling Triskeles
Jedi Master
Awoke today (2 May 2016) with the realization of just how STS all the feeding really is in our STS world. In fact, I could say that STS is defined by Feeding & Eating and looking for more food to eat.
And it’s striking me . . . shocking me actually . . . how basic and base this entire STS-Eating-Feeding dynamic is.
It makes me want to STOP!!! Stop my feeding frenzy. Stop feeding the predator . . . stop feeding the machine. To the point where I feel hesitant to be around people. Not so much because of others needing to Feed-Eat. But because I don’t want to do this to others. It feels repellant and repulsive. I don’t want to do it anymore.
I was a member of a cult from 1977-1985 — 9 years. We used the term ‘Attention Units’ — defined by the founder of that group as the most valuable energy we have at our disposal. That our world was about giving and getting attention units. The point of it all was how to give and pay undivided attention to others. And paying attention was defined as actively listening. Listening to others with our full attention. Not running thoughts through our minds while pretending to listen. Not thinking of what we wanted to say (i.e., getting attention units from others) but giving attention units to others so they felt heard. Witnessing in other words. That what was missing for most people was that they rarely felt heard.
I’m seeing now that I adopted that attitude because it made sense to me. I approached life — people, animals, plants, everything that exists -- with that attitude. I believed that what I could Do is to give attention units (energy) to others by paying attention to them . . . by listening . . . by witnessing . . . by being a Fair Witness.
Oddly, however, I didn’t need to turn it around and seek attention from others because it was actually enough to just give attention. Somehow by paying attention it seemed to also feed me in a paradoxical way. It doesn’t make much sense that the act of giving to others would also give to me as well, but there it is. Because it did do that. I can’t explain it.
When I left that group, I sort of threw the baby out with the bathwater. I stopped using the principles and lessons I’d learned and went back to my old ways of relating to others. IOW, I started seeking attention from others and stopped giving attention to others in a conscientious, purposeful way.
And I’m seeing now that it’s become important to me to again become present and attentive and actually listen and make an effort to understand what others are feeling and communicating. I feel some inner urge and need to understand. I can’t seem to just act as if I get it. I have to genuinely get it or it feels like I’m cheating.
The upshot of all this is what? What’s the take-away from this realization . . . from this shock?
What I’m getting is that I want to return to my former attitude and protocol of giving and paying attention to others rather than seeking attention from others. The truth is that I DON’T really need attention FROM others. But I DO feel this need to give attention TO others.
I don’t feel an urge or need to be fed. But I do feel an urge and need to feed others via paying attention. It’s not really a 2-way street. I don’t need a return flow. I only believed I did. But now I see that’s a lie. It’s not necessary at all. I only thought so because I was using an accounting system like capitalism thinking. IOW, I give this in order to get that. But that approach feels so manipulative and covert to me. It feels disingenuous (not genuinely honest) and reptilianish. It’s a perversion of the concepts of fairness and justice. It’s like thinking I’m owed something in exchange for what I give. But truly, I’m the one who owes everything. Nothing is owed to me.
I realize none of this makes any sense on some level. I can’t make it make sense even to me. It’s totally stupid, counter-intuitive, illogical and unreasonable.
I’m still in a state of shock about this realization so I’m not really sure why I’m posting it here except to get some feedback perhaps. Because it’s sort of turned my world upside down and I feel a little lost . . . like I just made an exit off the road most travelled and I’m in new territory and I don’t recognize this terrain. Where are the signposts for how to navigate this new path? It’s making me cry now. I’m not sure what to do . . . what to make of it. I can’t connect any dots. I feel like I’m inside out.
Any suggestions? Advice? Feedback? Further reading materials?
Thank you. :)
P.S. Am I confusing things here? Asking for help and feedback somehow doesn’t seem the same as wanting or asking for attention? I don’t know why it feels different, but it does.
PPS: I was re-reading Madame De Salzman’s First Initiation . . . wondering if she & I were talking about the same thing. But no. It doesn’t appear to me to be so.
However, in that thread, Buddy wrote something that did seem somewhat similar to my own realization. This is what he said:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28065.15.html
Thread: The First Initiation and Gurdjieff and Christianity
Thank you Buddy for saying it so much better than I could myself.
And it’s striking me . . . shocking me actually . . . how basic and base this entire STS-Eating-Feeding dynamic is.
It makes me want to STOP!!! Stop my feeding frenzy. Stop feeding the predator . . . stop feeding the machine. To the point where I feel hesitant to be around people. Not so much because of others needing to Feed-Eat. But because I don’t want to do this to others. It feels repellant and repulsive. I don’t want to do it anymore.
I was a member of a cult from 1977-1985 — 9 years. We used the term ‘Attention Units’ — defined by the founder of that group as the most valuable energy we have at our disposal. That our world was about giving and getting attention units. The point of it all was how to give and pay undivided attention to others. And paying attention was defined as actively listening. Listening to others with our full attention. Not running thoughts through our minds while pretending to listen. Not thinking of what we wanted to say (i.e., getting attention units from others) but giving attention units to others so they felt heard. Witnessing in other words. That what was missing for most people was that they rarely felt heard.
I’m seeing now that I adopted that attitude because it made sense to me. I approached life — people, animals, plants, everything that exists -- with that attitude. I believed that what I could Do is to give attention units (energy) to others by paying attention to them . . . by listening . . . by witnessing . . . by being a Fair Witness.
Oddly, however, I didn’t need to turn it around and seek attention from others because it was actually enough to just give attention. Somehow by paying attention it seemed to also feed me in a paradoxical way. It doesn’t make much sense that the act of giving to others would also give to me as well, but there it is. Because it did do that. I can’t explain it.
When I left that group, I sort of threw the baby out with the bathwater. I stopped using the principles and lessons I’d learned and went back to my old ways of relating to others. IOW, I started seeking attention from others and stopped giving attention to others in a conscientious, purposeful way.
And I’m seeing now that it’s become important to me to again become present and attentive and actually listen and make an effort to understand what others are feeling and communicating. I feel some inner urge and need to understand. I can’t seem to just act as if I get it. I have to genuinely get it or it feels like I’m cheating.
The upshot of all this is what? What’s the take-away from this realization . . . from this shock?
What I’m getting is that I want to return to my former attitude and protocol of giving and paying attention to others rather than seeking attention from others. The truth is that I DON’T really need attention FROM others. But I DO feel this need to give attention TO others.
I don’t feel an urge or need to be fed. But I do feel an urge and need to feed others via paying attention. It’s not really a 2-way street. I don’t need a return flow. I only believed I did. But now I see that’s a lie. It’s not necessary at all. I only thought so because I was using an accounting system like capitalism thinking. IOW, I give this in order to get that. But that approach feels so manipulative and covert to me. It feels disingenuous (not genuinely honest) and reptilianish. It’s a perversion of the concepts of fairness and justice. It’s like thinking I’m owed something in exchange for what I give. But truly, I’m the one who owes everything. Nothing is owed to me.
I realize none of this makes any sense on some level. I can’t make it make sense even to me. It’s totally stupid, counter-intuitive, illogical and unreasonable.
I’m still in a state of shock about this realization so I’m not really sure why I’m posting it here except to get some feedback perhaps. Because it’s sort of turned my world upside down and I feel a little lost . . . like I just made an exit off the road most travelled and I’m in new territory and I don’t recognize this terrain. Where are the signposts for how to navigate this new path? It’s making me cry now. I’m not sure what to do . . . what to make of it. I can’t connect any dots. I feel like I’m inside out.
Any suggestions? Advice? Feedback? Further reading materials?
Thank you. :)
P.S. Am I confusing things here? Asking for help and feedback somehow doesn’t seem the same as wanting or asking for attention? I don’t know why it feels different, but it does.
PPS: I was re-reading Madame De Salzman’s First Initiation . . . wondering if she & I were talking about the same thing. But no. It doesn’t appear to me to be so.
However, in that thread, Buddy wrote something that did seem somewhat similar to my own realization. This is what he said:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,28065.15.html
Thread: The First Initiation and Gurdjieff and Christianity
Buddy - Page 2 - Reply #29 - March 20 said:It doesn't seem to mean that I am any better at understanding or expressing certain things, but I can see my own workings with some detachment no matter what seems to be going on. In fact, yesterday I had an entire day when I didn't care about, want or need anything for myself. Everything exists for the use and benefit of someone else. There was the fact of it and the feel of it to be true. Other than my basic needs, which also includes job hunting, all my attention is on doing whatever I can to make easier, the lives of the people in the realm of my immediate responsibility, which includes my wife, mom and Dad - as if that is the most important thing right now. I actually feel how important this is, no matter the cost to me in terms of time, effort, or whatever. I came away with a new and unexpected understanding of the concept 'serve yourself by serving others'. It seems when you can get a moment and see through or see around the false self, you see that there is nothing of you requiring so much attention anyway. That leaves "the you in others" who require help and support to get through this life.
Thank you Buddy for saying it so much better than I could myself.