Organic Portals: Human variation

Laura

Laura

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Among the most difficult concepts the C's have presented to us over the years is that of Organic Portals. We've received tons of hate mail about this from fundie types - both mainstream religion and New Age - protesting the very idea of human type beings that may not have the potential of an "immortal soul." Then, of course, we get even MORE letters from people who nearly shout in relief at finally having something of an explanation for things they have observed all their lives. The question that exercises many people is: are psychopaths a type of Organic Portal or are psychopaths something else altogether?

The way this idea works is to think about all humanity as represented by a bell curve. At one end is a small percentage, maybe 6 % that not only are potentially souled, but also have the conditions to develop in the direction of creative potential in the fullest sense. At the other end are psychopaths, or those that are not potentially souled, but who do have a capacity to develop strongly in the direction of entropy. In the middle is a larger grouping divided more or less equally between potentially souled and Organic Portals.

I'm not sure that this is an accurate representation. My thought is that there needs to be two separate Bell Curve graphs, one for Potentially Souled beings and another for Organic Portals with Creation and Entropy being at either end. I don't think you can even put them on the same graph because the fundamental criteria are so different.

Yes, you could probably make a bell curve of souled vs non souled, but only for that single criterion.

So where do psychopaths belong? Do they belong on the graph of potentially souled, but having "sold their souls to the devil" (figuratively speaking), or do they belong on the graph of Organic Portals?

It's a tough question and one that deserves some thought and analysis.

If you consider a bell curve graph of non souled vs souled, you would notice that a lot of people fall into the bulge of the bell curve. This group would include those who are potentially souled, but might as well be soulless for all the good it does them. But an equally large number would be definitely not souled, but so similar to the potentially souled as making it impossible to tell the difference. At the negative end of the bell curve would be those OPs that are fairly easily found out, and at the positive end would be those individuals with soul potential that are actually in the process of developing and manifesting it.

Not too much else can be derived from this representation.

When you turn to the bell curve graph of Organic Portals, with creativity at the positive end and entropy at the negative end, you can notice that fully half of the OPs are on the "creative" side, though most of them bunch together (as bell curves do) as more or less "tending toward creativity" and a few being highly creative.

But what will we be looking at when we consider the negative half of this bell curve? What, exactly, is at the far end??? Is that where we find psychopaths?

I'm not sure. Here's a snip from a C's session that brings up this question:

14 Sept 2002
Q: (L) ... You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used [by 4D STS]. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?

A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

Q: (L) The question came up about the remark as to the numbers of OPs and you said something about encountering half as many OP's as souled humans. It was pointed out that, in mathematical terms, that would work out to encountering or interacting with more souled humans than OPs. So, you said the population was evenly distributed, when you say the population was evenly distributed does that mean that there are half organic portals and half souled humans, more or less?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So when you say encountering 'half as many,' what does that mean?

A: It means that "souls" run in families for the most part. Thus a souled, and we mean "potentially fully souled, individual is likely to encounter and interact more with other souled humans. However, when awakening, they may encounter even more OP's.

Q: (L) So they tend to run in families but families can have aberrations. That is, a family that's mostly OP's could have an occasional souled human, which they don't know what to do with. And, in the same way, a family of mostly souled people could have an occasional OP, or a line of them that pops up in the family every now and then. But for the most part, people with souls marry people with souls unless there is some danger of them awakening in which case there's special situation where [4D STS] insert OP's into their lives. But I would say that in a general sense what they're saying, and y'all can correct me if I'm wrong here, is that, water seeks its own level, so to speak.

A: More or less.

Q: (L) So in other words, the people who noticed that remark were right, and the way I took it was wrong. Okay, another question, are there other types of soulless beings more than those reanimated or remolecularized dead dudes and OP's? Is there such things as holographic projection beings running around on the planet at this point and time?

A: In a sense, you are all "holographic" projections. But to answer the question, it is rare.

Q: (L) So, there are holographic projection type beings or there can be, but there's not too many of them. Alright, on to the next question. Are there any particular clues that we could have about identifying OP's?

A: Is it necessary to have more clues? Remember some things are to be learned.

Q: (C) I think they're saying to start paying attention, making mental notes and figuring it out for yourself. (J) Didn't they say that generally OP's don't get abducted? ... (C) I think it's probably better, from what they're saying, if we just all figure it out from experience. You learn more by just watching than if they handed it to you. (L) Another question we had was, in areas where 3rd and 4th density are merged or merging, is it easier for Men in Black to project themselves into such a reality.

A: Of course.

Q: (J) They once said something about bi-density beings. They were like hybrids between 4th density beings and a 3rd density being. Or could such an individual be a genetically enhanced human?

A: Humans were once "bi-density." And some may be again in the natural way. Those of 4D STS "manufacture" are similar. Just think of them as a type of OP with souped up engines.
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That last part really caught me: Bi-density beings can be Organic Portals with "souped up engines."

Does that mean that Organic Portals at the extreme of the bell curve on the negative side are NOT psychopaths? Or is the bi-density being, the "souped up" OP, just the most extreme form of psychopathy?

Here's another clue:

13 July 2002
Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle - which we assume to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?

A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.

Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail.

A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
Click to expand...
What does it mean that psychopaths are "failed Organic Portals"?

Does that mean that we have to put the bi-density types, whether positive or negative, at the positive end of the Organic Portal graph, meaning the ultimate development of the Organic Portal, and the Psychopaths at the far, negative end, the "failures"?

I'm not sure about that. Any ideas anyone?
 
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Here are some of my thoughts:

The greatest danger here is the oversimplification of what amounts to a very complex understanding. Both those who cry in protest and those who cry out with relief may be doing so because they accept the matter epigramatically, i.e, in a simple one-liner of "US vs. THEM". Wherever human beings are involved, however, matters are never simple mainly because we are in the thick of what we are trying to understand.

Personally I believe that it's important to emphasize that this is an understanding in progress, especially for those who first come into initial contact with it. It's interesting the religious and new age directions have objected to this understanding as both tend to have deterministic tendencies in their doctrines.

For the early Christians, for example, it may be that a core reason for their persecution was the adoption of an "us vs. them" attitude regarding pre-Adamics to the extent that they provoked the establishment against them, when they could have better organized under the radar so to speak.

As such, although in principle Mouravieff's view on Adamics and pre-Adamics strikes me as valid, it also seems to be a bit oversimplified.

The way I see it is that the human energy system is a whole. There is no way a human can function without higher centers any more than people can walk around with their heads cut off. Rather I would say that in OP's the vibration spectrum is more restricted from top to bottom. In other words, the vibration potential, amplitude as well as the frequency spectrum of response is far more limited in OP's than in "Adamics".

Let's look at the implications of this. If the difference between OP's and Adamics lies in the restricted input/output potentials of the OP energy centers as a whole, we may expect the following effects:

First, OP's would be restricted both in what they can recieve through their centers and in what they can radiate or output. The restrictions would manifest as a limited reality window as well as a limited window of options of expression.

Second, the restricted nature of their centers would manifest as a correspondingly restricted comfort zone of experience, with dissonance generated when the boundaries of tolerance are violated. The comfort zone would include manifestations of the lower and upper energy centers. Anything that pushes the envelope of that comfort zone would invariably generate dissonance within the OP, and would most likely be perceived as a threat.

Third, to maintain the integrity of experience within the limits of their comfort zone, OP's would be inclined to structure their lives accordingly on individual and social scales. Rigidity in the upper centers would then lead to the imposition and maintenance of ridgid belief systems. Ridgidity in the lower centers would lead to an inability to extend the action/reaction principle beyond the realm of instinct. As a whole OP's would try to balance upper and lower ridgidities with ritualistic mechanization of life style. They would seek to place taboos on both the biological potential, as well as taboos on thought and creativity.

Thus the modus operandi of the OP is mechanization, and I believe we are in agreement here. For animals instincts maintain stability because their energetic organization is different. Animal species, in my view, are connected to collective overminds and have an "upper center" experience that is fused into a common animal dreamtime.

Humans, whether OP's or not, are more individualized. Thus the OP feels as threatened by the rampant instincts of the lower centers as much as the expansive potential of the upper ones. Where instinct more or less forms a harmonized relationship through the animal overmind matrix, and balances with the ecosystem where the animal finds itself, OP's are individuals that have not yet adapted to what it means to walk erect. Thus, they have to restrict both upper and lower parts.

This does not imply psychopathy, in my view. Psychopathy can be a disease infecting both the OP and the Adamic human. I would suggest perhaps that for a more comprehensive graphing of the bell curve, we consider the plot in three dimensions with psychopathy and the OP/Adamic spectrum on separate axes.

Adamics my be more genetically adapted to the human body and energy field, the erect posture, increased brain capacity, lack of a definable reproductive cycle, speech, hand dexterity etc, but they cannot know if the restrictions of OP's are permanently hardwired or simply under repressor genes dependent on current 3D conditions.

In other words, the awakening of Adamics as a 4D stabilizer dynamic may allow conditions for the expansion of the OP comfort zone, through an environment that would negate the effect of the OP repressor gene. The implication of this is that the Adamics are active awakeners of themselves, and hence consciously responsible for their evolution (often being driven toward it), while OP's are a second wave of humanity activated by the awakening of Adamics.

OP's can be intelligent, feeling and creative, but along more restricted, structured and mechanized lines. Their creativity is functional within their comfort zone, which is basically how most people define "normality". Although accurate to a certain degree, it is very easy for the term Organic Portal to take on a deragotory flavor, much like saying "dumb animal".

That said, I would like to point out that the mechanical "training wheel" tendencies of OP's make them very vulnerable to STS influence, hence the designation Organic Portal (although I believe being an organic portal is a tendency to which pre-Adamics are predisposed and not necessarily their prime attribute).

I believe that the most dangerous of the STS-oriented humans are psychotic Adamics, and it is possible that the "unforgiveable sin against the Holy Spirit" in Christian doctrine may be related to Adamic fall. On the other hand, OP's can be STO in a more limited manner, extending out to family, neigborhood and community in a sincere fashion. However, they cannot universalize the STO way and extend it to a greater collective, humanity or the whole of nature and reality.

STO Organic Portals consider it selfish to go against the needs of family and community, but have a hard time being STO beyond that. STS modes take over when OP's are pressured to do so, and they accept them to maintain coherence within the limits of their comfort zones.

In a similar fashion, most OP's when psychotic are petty, with petty rages and petty fears. They can be puppeted by 4D STS, but these puppets endure great strain and eventually crack because they are stretched beyond their limits by their puppet masters.

The psychopath "failures" buckle up under pressure, while other (more successful) OP puppets need to maintain control proportional to their power over the collective. Their psychosis craves validation by others, while their comfort zone demands a more stable reality, and these tendencies conflict. Losing control makes them snap, all the more easily if they crave what amounts to endless validation.

On the other hand, as I already mentioned, I do not believe being Adamic makes one immune to either psychopathy or STS possession and influence. I believe that hightened resistance may be inherent for the extreme "integrated" end of the Adamic spectrum simply because the reality window and vibratory flexibility of the corresponding energy centers can override anything STS can impose, when there is enough karmic experience.

If an Adamic, however, becomes corrupted through enough trauma (often at a young enough), they may be far more "creative" and durable manifestations of psychopathy than any OP is capable of being. Traumatized or not, however, the Adamic is still more conscious than the pre-Adamic and has to live with the consequences of his or her choices as a stark contrast to whatever soul potential still exists within, however dimmed. This would have to be a painful existence, a veritable hell on some level, which is why I associated with the sin against the Holy Spirit of Christianity.

In conclusion, it seems Adamics are naturally bi-density because of their greater capability of accepting greater options of reality, and pre-Adamics are mono-density because of greater restrictions on their centers. This does not mean there are not grades in between.

Nevertheless, simply put, monodensity people have no say in what goes on in 4D and for that reason can be possessed without their consent or knowledge. Bi-density people must give their consent, and if young or weakened or fooled by circumstance can do so under duress, even though it is probably within their inherent abilities to make a conscious turn-around (with or without intervention), while intervention of sorts may be needed for OP's, if anything can be done at all.

As I mentioned, it may be more comprehensive to put psychopathic potential on a completely different axis, with a third axis denoting population. This is a complex topic and not one easily resolved, and I look forward to the ensuing discussion.
 
So where do psychopaths belong? Do they belong on the graph of potentially souled, but having "sold their souls to the devil" (figuratively speaking), or do they belong on the graph of Organic Portals?

Perhaps the key is in the fact that the C's said that OPs were originally bridges between
2nd and 3rd density, which implies a rather neutral starting point, as it were. From my understanding, once they've 'been around' long enough (through many incarnations?), they have the potential to become souled and move toward one orientation or another. Essential psychopaths, on the other hand, seem to have already developed more of a capacity for entropy than a run of the mill OP - locking in their entropic life choices (over many incarnations?) to the extent that these choices have substantially changed them, into psychopaths? It seems that psychopaths are much further along the entropic evolutionary ladder than OPs - as if OPs are children just learning to function here, and psychopaths have been around, have chosen entropy and are locked, happily, into it. Of course, I'm not sure and these are just general impressions, but it seems that the OP is more of a physical shell whose development over the lifetimes can be affected by souled individuals with whom they interact. I don't think that psychopaths can be affected that way, in fact, if there is an affect when psychopaths interact with souled individuals (which we've learned there is), it is usually ON the souled individual, not the psychopath. Thus, the OP still has the capacity to change and can be positively affected by interacting with souled individuals, whereas the psychopath cannot. - Just some thoughts that could be way off - but at this point in 'time' that's how it seems to me, although I could reverse the whole idea and posit that psychopaths are pre-OP - but.... they sure do have the entropic life path down to a T to just be starting out.
 
I've been struggling with this question since reading the original OP articles. The 2D/3D bridge comment seems to imply that OP's are "new humans." They're just starting grade 3. If psychopaths are failed OP's, perhaps they fail in the sense that they are too 2D, and not 3D enough (in other words, they're completely animal, with no possibility of further growth). If we look at the phenomenon in terms of STO/STS, I think OP's are (at least in this cycle) STS, with no possibility for STO development (i.e. graduating to 4D STO). I see Adamic humanity as having the potential either for STO or STS. That means that a being that advances to 4D STS has the complete potential of higher centers, but consciously chooses to pervert them, to stifle his/her conscience. The psychopath has NO choice.

In other words, the souled-psychopath seems even MORE terrifying. It HAS a conscience and USES its energy to become more entropic. I think this is what Ra implies about STS graduates--they have the higher centers, but skip a few steps to take the path of entropy. But I still can't answer your question "Do they belong on the graph of potentially souled, but having "sold their souls to the devil" (figuratively speaking), or do they belong on the graph of Organic Portals?" Perhaps they're the result of living many incarnations on the path to STS, having started with a soul-potential. This would make sense, as when asked for examples of harvestable STS beings, Ra mentioned Rasputin, Goering, Himmler, and Genghis Khan. Himmler seems like the Hitler's Dick Cheney. But if we go with Ra's examples, they imply that these men DID have higher centers but skipped 'heart center,' I believe. Perhaps there are more psychopath taxons than we know. Were the C's implying that "essential" psychpaths were the failed OP's? What about characteropaths?

As for the bell curve, I picture it as a 3D yin yang where either side of the curve as the potential for STO or STS. So perhaps half of the OP's will "one day" strive to be STO.

An idea that came to me while reading this thread is that psychopaths are some kind of genetic 4D STS experiment. That is, 4D STS beings incarnating into 3D OP bodies. They have already advanced as far as possible, but incarnate in a body that supports this state. Perhaps this was a blood-line started in the distant past. Not sure about this... Just a thought.
 
Let me post all C's references to them before making some comments later (if I have time today!)

13 July 2002

Q: We have recently been working with some material from Boris Mouravieff. We can see many relationships between that work and so many of the clues and hints scattered throughout the C's transmissions. What seems to be important is his information about the Centers - three lower and three higher that are not "seated" in the body. Then, he talks about the difference between "A" influences and "B" influences, and the necessity for assimilation of "B" influences in order to fuse the "magnetic center" which then enables the soul - or higher centers - to "seat" in the body. Is the information from Mouravieff about these matters fairly accurate?

A: Not just fairly. It has been preserved from the time of the "Fall."

Q: Mouravieff states clearly that this teaching is a "thin thread" of an oral tradition, and that the monks themselves - in various locations - admit that it has not only not been put into writing, but has not ever even been "gathered together" in a single place. This is, of course, problematical, but it seems that Mouravieff has made a sincere effort to present the material of the Tradition itself, even if he has spent an inordinate amount of time trying to weave through it some of the occult traditions of Europe that have been so very popular for so long, particularly the synarchic views of Guenon and so forth. In seems that, in this respect, Mouravieff has interpreted many things in an "A influence" sort of way. And then, there is Mouravieff's presentation of the "worlds." It seems to be very similar to the teaching about "densities," though without the balance of STS and STO.

A: If it is understood in the original context of hyperdimensional realities. Also, there are some distortions and gloss on the subject of the "worlds" and "notes." But even this is only minor.

Q: Mouravieff says that there are two kinds of humans - he calls the "pre-Adamic" and "Adamic," (discussed in book III). The idea is that pre-Adamic human types basically have no "soul" nor any possibility of growing one. This is a pretty shocking idea, but there have been recent scholarly discussions of this matter based on what seems to be clinical evidence that, indeed, there are human beings who are just "mechanical" and have no "inner" or "higher self" at all. [See: "Division of Consciousness"] Gurdjieff talked about this and so did Castaneda. Are these ideas Mouravieff presents about the two basic TYPES of humans, as far as they go, accurate?

A: Indeed, though again, there is a "Biblical Gloss."

Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle - which we assume to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?

A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.

Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail.

A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.

Q: (V) Have I, or anyone in this room, ever encountered any, and if so, can you give us an example for reference?

A: If you consider that the population is equally distributed, then you will understand that in an ordinary "souled" person's life, that person will encounter half as many organic portals as souled individuals. BUT, when someone is in the process of "growing" and strengthening the soul, the Control System will seek to insert even more "units" into that person's life. Now, think of all the people you have ever met and particularly those with whom you have been, or are, intimate. Which half of this number would YOU designate as being organic portals? Hard to tell, eh?

Q: (BT) Is this the original meaning of the "pollution of the bloodline" that the Bible talks about?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) This certainly gives a whole new meaning to all the experiences we have had with people like "Frank" and Vincent Bridges and Terri Burns, Olga and the rest of the gang! What this means is that the work of discerning these organic portals from souled human beings is CRUCIAL to the so-called ascension process. Without the basic understanding of transformation of, and conservation of energies, there is no possibility of fusing a magnetic center. No wonder the Bridges gang and the COINTELPRO types went bananas while I was publishing the Adventures Series! And sheesh! They will go bonkers with this organic portal stuff! (V) In thinking back over my life, it seems to me that my father is certainly one of these organic portals.

A: Now, do not start labeling without due consideration. Remember that very often the individual who displays contradictory behavior may be a souled being in struggle.

Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can I know if I have a soul?

A: Do you ever hurt for another?

Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.

A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control.

Q: (A) What does having a soul or not having a soul have to do with bloodline?

A: Genetics marry with soul if present.

Q: Do "organic portals" go to fifth density when they die?

A: Only temporarily until the "second death."

Q: (V) What is the "origin" of these organic portal human types? In the scheme of creation, where did they come from?

A: They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.

Q: (A) Now, I was reading in the transcripts that sleep is necessary for human beings because it was a period of rest and recharging. You also said that the SOUL rests while the body is sleeping. So, the question is: what source of energy is tapped to recharge both the body and the soul?

A: The question needs to be separated. What happens to a souled individual is different from an organic portal unit.

Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?

A: The pool you have described.

Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?

A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual cener and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.

Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?

A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.

Q: Do the "centers" as described by Mouravieff relate at all to the idea of "chakras?"

A: Quite closely. In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.

Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?

A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.
Lower moving center - basal chakra
Lower emotional - sexual chakra
Lower intellectual - throat chakra
Higher emotional - heart chakra
Higher intellectual - crown chakra

Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?

A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.

[Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook"
configuration.]

Q: (V) What about the many ideas about 12 chakras, and so forth, that are currently being taught by many new age sources? [Barbara Marciniak, for one.]

A: There are no such. This is a corrupted conceptualization based on the false belief that the activation of the physical endocrine system is the same as the creation and fusion of the magnetic center. The higher centers are only "seated" by being "magnetized." And this more or less "External" condition [location of the higher centers] has been perceived by some individuals and later joined to the perceived "seating" locations, in potential. This has led to "cross conceptualization" based on assumption!

Q: Are the levels of initiation and levels of the staircase as presented by Mouravieff fairly accurate?

A: Yes, but different levels accessed in other so-called lives can relieve the intensity of some levels in "another" life.

Q: (L) So work on the self in different incarnations - assuming one is not an organic portal - can be cumulative? You can pick up where you left off if you screw up?

A: Yes. To some extent.
Click to expand...
So, that was the first discussion which came right after I finished reading Mouravieff's three volumes of Gnosis. It was pretty shocking to us. After all, Mouravieff's presentation was glossed and even softened a bit. The C's version was a bit closer to Gurdjieff's "man is a machine" idea. But of course, Gurdjieff suggested that no one had a soul at all until they crystallized one. Castaneda's Don Juan talked about seeing energy bodies and that there were differences between them. Apparently there were human beings who had the capacity to become "seers" or "warriors," and their energy body was different from that of other humans.

Nevertheless, in a culture where we are conditioned from birth with the idea that "all men are created equal," and ideas that all human beings can be "saved" if they just "turn to Jesus" and have eternal life, this is pretty strong stuff.

Next discussion was with T** and C*** of "Montalk and Lyara" fame present. I am going to include more than just the Organic Portal snips because the context is important:

14 September 2002

Q: (C) I just wanted to know has my brother J** ever been abducted by...

A: He is not here. But you are. Does that strike you as interesting?

Q: (C) Can they clarify what they mean by here?

A: In this room.

Q: (V) Did you ask him to come here with you? (C) No I was wondering has he ever been abducted by something... (V) I think what there saying is he needs to ask that question, maybe, because we've heard that before. (L) They're funny about that kind of thing. (V) Violation of free will. Maybe it's for him to seek and find on his own. (J) If he chooses. (C) If they don't want to answer that, I can't ask anything else about it, right?

A: Did you get our question?

Q: (A) In other words, how come that there is such a difference between you and your brother and how come you are here in this room and he's not, how do you interpret that? (L) I think that they're suggesting that he's not here therefore he can't ask that question for himself, but you are here and you can ask it for yourself. (C) You mean about me being abducted? (L) That's the question. (J) Is it something you want verified? (C) Okay, I guess my next question is have I ever been abducted?

A: Well, now that you asked...You may find great benefit in contemplation of this issue while in a relaxed state. Perhaps some consideration of the possibilities inherent in the possibilities of the events of your brother's life in relation to your own might be fruitful.

Q: (V) So it's almost like they're saying there's levels of possibilities within a level a possibilities.

(L) Or the possibilities relating to her life can be understood in considering the possibilities of his life.

(J) So maybe you try should compare some notes on what's going on there and what's up with him, might also be up with you. This way, you might be able to deduce the answer to the question. Or, maybe the answer to the question about his life is the same as the answer to the question about your own life, maybe?

(A) So they avoid answering the question directly, right?

(J) Maybe they want you to think on it.

(C) Yeah that's why I don't know what to say because it seems like they don't really seem to want to answer the question so...

(J) Maybe you're not ready for the answer.

(V) Well, let's ask you this question, if you were to ask another question, if you were to let go of that, if you were to ask another question, what would the question be?

(C) Well mostly my question is more concern about my brother than about my own self. Enough so that I want to know if he's being abducted, and if so by who?

A: Perhaps you might consider this "concern" in terms of "projection?"

Q: (T) Why is projection in quotation marks?

(J) Do they mean more of a psychological projection? Are they talking about desire, want, or something that you are projecting onto you brother's circumstances? In other words, in sort of asking about him, you subconsciously want to gather answers for yourself.

(C) Well I'm not denying I'm curious about myself, but I really am sincerely wanting to know about him and his situation because I've heard so many stories from him that I guess I just wanted confirmation about all the things he's been saying to me for my own peace of mind so I can stop wondering all the time.

(V) And maybe that goes back to this 'possibilities within possibilities.'

A: Consider the terms: Projection and reflection?

Q: (J) Projection meaning to like take the image of something and projecting it onto something else, a reflection of something that mirrors; comparing how the events of his life correspond to yours.

A: Are his experiences his alone?

Q: (J) Maybe they're talking about you sharing experiences that are similar. I mean if he's being abducted and you're being abducted at the same time, are the events of his life corresponding to events of your life? Is what's happening to him or his scenario exactly the same as your own?

(V) Well, they're hammering on the projection and the reflection. Is there any more that...

A: She needs to "probe."

Q: (V) Get to the root of the issue...might hypnotism be a good avenue for her to probe?

A: Good idea.

Q: (V) About a year and half ago, I noticed a couple of times a very small point on my underarm that was like cornflower blue. I mentioned it to a few people, and two other people in particular said they had similar marks themselves. I've been curious ever since as to how they got there why they got there. Because when it happened I felt like I had been abducted. Of course, knowing how I feel about abduction, I was basically ashamed that if it was abduction that I was still open, that I was still allowing myself to be abducted and messed with.

A: More projecting?

Q: (C) What do they mean by projecting?

A: Some project...some reflect...

Q: (V) Okay, what was the cornflower blue dot on my arm?

A: It was an energy surge "burn." EM in nature.

Q: (V) Did this emanate from a source within me or from without me?

A: Both.

Q: (V) Dare I ask, STS, STO?

A: Realm curtain EM burst.

Q: (V) It's like 4th density bleed through?

A: You got it.

Q: (V) You used the word 'burn.' It looked like where a shot had been given, comment please?

A: Ask Laura about that. She had one.

Q: (V) You had a cornflower blue spot on your arm?

(L) No, it was on my belly, but...

(V) What did you think about it when you saw it?

(L) Well, it freaked me out because it had tiny hole in the middle of it.

(V) Mine started out real pretty cornflower blue and then developed into bruise colors.

(L) Well, mine came with a dream. I dreamed that something shot up out of me into the atmosphere one night. The next day, in the bath, I noticed that I had this spot and this hole in it right where this thing had shot up out of me in the dream. Well, in the dream, it was almost like a little rocket that shot up out of me and when it shot up to the roof of the house it opened like an umbrella and floated down.

(V to T) Now I remember you talking about orgone being a blue color, did you not?

(T) Yes.

(V) Is there any relationship to orgone?

A: No. Blue color is physiological response the same way a blister is physical response to heat.

Q: (V) Okay, if that is the physical aspect of it, what is the say metaphysical aspect of it?

A: EM energy surge.

Q: (V) When this happened to you did you ask them about it?

(L) Yeah, but I don't remember what they said, I'll have to look it up. I think it was something like an energy surge; something like a defensive gesture.

(V) Is what Laura is saying is true, is this EM energy surge a defense mechanism?

A: Most often.

Q: (V) Defense mechanism against what?

A: Intrusion.

Q: (V) Well it's cool we got that going on. Did it work?

A: Did it?

Q: (V) That's what I'm asking you guys...oh well, I'm still here.

A: Okay, it worked.

Q: (C) So every time one of those spots appears it's a sign that intrusion had been trying to happen and it was successfully warded off?

A: Depends on the "spot" and the individual. But, generally, yes if the same coloration.

Q: (V) I was curious if the same type of thing happens with different colors.

(L) Well they said the blue coloration was a physiological response to the EM thing the way the blister would be to heat. I would imagine that there might be physiological responses to other kinds of things, just like burns can be different from scrapes, from cuts, from scratches.

(V) Okay, well, since we have spot in quotation marks what is the difference between a spot being on the belly and a spot being on the underarm?

A: It simply denotes the nature of the defense in symbolic terms. Yours was personal, thus the arm. Laura's was for the children, thus the ovary.

Q: (L) Yeah. I was aware that my children were being threatened and this thing shot up out of me, up through the roof, and it opened up into an umbrella and floated down on the house like a symbolic protection - like a gigantic bell jar shield - for the kids. I thought it was so cool because, gee, that's pretty handy thing to have, you know; you've got these rocket launchers in your body (laughter)!

Q: (L) I have a question. I had a thought the other night after I read Dolan's book. [UFOs and the National Security State] He was talking about this government technology for mind control and so forth, and how the government or the military was trying to cover up the alien presence and interactions, what they were really up to and what they were really doing, and I came to this idea after reading all of these cases. What is evident is that there were apparently abductions and landings and contact stories from very early on in the so-called UFO phenomenon. What I thought about was the fact that Bud Hopkins and Whitley Strieber promoted in their books, mostly Whitley, the image of the gray alien as the standard American abductor. After the publication of these books all American abductions seemed to follow the pattern of the gray alien abduction. However, it is primarily an American phenomenon. Most other places in the world don't have little gray aliens with bug eyes. So, what I want to know is this: is the gray alien abduction scenario: a.) A screen memory b.) a creation of the American military mass mind programming project in order to acclimate people to certain conditions, circumstances and interactions, or c.) something else or d) are they really just gray aliens abducting everybody?

A: You have stumbled upon an interesting question indeed. As we have noted previously, physical abductions are rare. Not only that, some abductions do not end with return of the victim. Now, what do you suppose you would do to cover up this fact? You might "create" a lot of abductions that end with return and "no harm done."

Q: (L) That wasn't one of my answer selections! Does this mean that the abductions reported by the people that Bud Hopkins worked with followed by Whitley Strieber were staged?

A: Close enough for horseshoes.

Q: (L) Okay, what would get us closer?

A: How about several varieties of experiences including government experiments. Did you ever notice how some cases exhibit extreme trauma and some do not? Same general story, but one is related with deeper sensation of reality, and another is not. Why do you think so many "abductees" are able to accommodate the experience, while some result in ruined lives?

Q: (L) So you are saying that some of them are not really being abducted. They're just having something projected into their mind. So how long has this been going on?

A: Over 30 years.

Q: (L) That would be back to the 70's. And so where did Whitley come up with his gray aliens...and how does this relate to grays as cyber-genetic probes?

A: There really are "grays." But not nearly as ubiquitous the gov would like you to think.

Q: (L) So with Whitley telling everybody how it happens and what they look like along with contouring of the blanket EM mind control field or whatever, with the beaming out of a mind-programming wave - whatever it is - they're able to make a whole hell of a lot of people - everybody who is susceptible - think they are in contact with gray aliens. What is it that makes some people susceptible and not others?

A: Most generally that they are not organic portals.

[Note that the answer refers specifically to gray alien abductions - that said critters don't bother with Organic Portals.]

Q: (L) So that leads to our other question, do organic portals ever get abducted?

A: No need.

Q: (L) So they're using this, in a sense, as a weeding mechanism?

A: More or less.

Q: (L) So those people who declare firmly, that there is absolutely, never have, never could be, any evidence of abduction, could be OP's?

A: Generally speaking, yes.

[Laura's note: This makes one wonder about the C's earlier remark about C**'s "projection" of her "concern" for her brother who was supposedly being abducted by the military. Were they also saying that she was being abducted by the military?]

Q: (V) Well, a souled person who has their faculties about them with knowledge is not going to get abducted either?

(L) I don't think that's necessarily a logical conclusion.

(V) Not necessarily? Well, I thought they told us that once your knowledge level increases you will no longer be abducted.

(L) I don't think that this was the actual conclusion. Yes, it is true that if your knowledge increases then you have an idea what's going on. And most especially, if your mind is strong enough not to be susceptible to these mind control waves, you can certainly put an end to that nonsense. But, that doesn't mean that you would not be physically abducted if those 4th density dudes or the government decided to do it because that has nothing to do with battling mind control waves. I mean if they really want to get to you they'll send somebody into you life who is an OP and they'll come to you thorough that person.

(J) But, they say generally they don't say all the time.

(C) Could I just ask one question? Last fall I believed I was abducted, and I actually have one memory of it, of a gray, you know, while I was laying on a table. I also had physical signs on my body of an abduction. I'm curious as I'm hearing this: was I being abducted by grays that really exist or was that like the government mind control making me think that I was?

(A) What kind of physical...

(C) I had pain in my uterus area, I had pink eye, missing time, I felt like I got run over by a train. I had all these physical symptoms of something really bad happening and then one memory of being on a table with this gray standing in front of me.

(L) Do you suffer from Post Traumatic Stress?

(C) Not that I know of.

(V) No panic attacks?

(C) No anxiety or panic attacks.

(V) I think if somebody is getting hauled out consistently for most of their life they're going to be pretty jumpy about everything.

(L) Loud noises.

(C) Oh yeah, like every loud noise, everything freaks me out, makes me jump, it's like abnormal reaction to loud noises and...

[Note: I find it extremely odd that C was talking about an alleged abduction in this way. First, it was all about the physical symptoms, and then, when asked about PTSD, she rejected the idea. The question was again emphasized by V who was rather surprised, but C again denied any such problems. It was only AFTER V made the comment that anyone who is getting abducted ought to have some issues. I then, tried to help by suggesting loud noises. At this point, C, being more or less influenced by our complete astonishment that she was not psychologically traumatized, suddenly changed her story and agreed that loud noises, that EVERYTHING, freaks her out, makes her jump; she has ABNORMAL reactions to loud noises and so on. It was almost as though she had to be TAUGHT what PTSD was. And this, coming right after the C's had said: "How about several varieties of experiences including government experiments. Did you ever notice how some cases exhibit extreme trauma and some do not? Same general story, but one is related with deeper sensation of reality, and another is not. Why do you think so many "abductees" are able to accommodate the experience, while some result in ruined lives?" But it gets stranger still; read carefully...]

(V) Do you remember what was being done to you while you were on the table?

(C) Well, I slipped into the memory when I least expected it. You know, once I realized what was happening, that I am looking at a gray, I just kind of freaked out and got really scared and I snapped myself out of it. So I had no idea what was being done. But I know that I felt completely under control, like calm, like I wasn't scared on the table, like he was making me not be scared; like he was controlling me. But in seeing that, being numb, I got scared and pulled out of it. I'm just wondering if that actually happened, if I really was abducted by real grays, or mind control was going on.

A: How about real abductions, but not necessarily by "grays." They are very popular screens.

[A most interesting response: abducted, but not by "grays." Remember that above the C's said that Organic Portals are not abducted by grays.]

Q: (V) Okay, if not grays then who?

A: Ask her brother!

Q: (C) Okay, well he's claiming that he's being abducted by the government agents. So if that's who he thinks is abducting him, does that mean that's who's abducting me?

(L) Either that or he's saying that it's happening to him, while the one who is really being abducted is you, and he's saying it because he is part of the screen. Projecting, reflecting. Talk about diversion.

(C) What are they saying?

(A) Maybe he's being used to divert attention. To access you...one way or another.

(A) So I understand it's probably some kind secret government activity that she is involved in, right?

(L) Seems to be so. [...]

[This is a repeat of the segment included in the first post on this thread, but since it is from the same session, I'm going to repeat it to keep the flow in context.]

Q: (L) Okay, now we have a couple of questions we want to get to here. You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?

A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

Q: (L) The question came up about the remark as to the numbers of OPs and you said something about encountering half as many OP's as souled humans. It was pointed out that, in mathematical terms, that would work out to encountering or interacting with more souled humans than OPs. So, you said the population was evenly distributed, when you say the population was evenly distributed does that mean that there are half organic portals and half souled humans, more or less?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So when you say encountering 'half as many,' what does that mean?

A: It means that "souls" run in families for the most part. Thus a souled, and we mean "potentially fully souled, individual is likely to encounter and interact more with other souled humans. However, when awakening, they may encounter even more OP's.

Q: (L) So they tend to run in families but families can have aberrations. That is, a family that's mostly OP's could have an occasional souled human, which they don't know what to do with. And, in the same way, a family of mostly souled people could have an occasional OP, or a line of them that pops up in the family every now and then. But for the most part, people with souls marry people with souls unless there is some danger of them awakening in which case there's special situation where [4D STS] insert OP's into their lives. But I would say that in a general sense what they're saying, and y'all can correct me if I'm wrong here, is that, water seeks its own level, so to speak.

A: More or less.

Q: (L) So in other words, the people who noticed that remark were right, and the way I took it was wrong. Okay, another question, are there other types of soulless beings more than those reanimated or remolecularized dead dudes and OP's? Is there such things as holographic projection beings running around on the planet at this point and time?

A: In a sense, you are all "holographic" projections. But to answer the question, it is rare.

Q: (L) So, there are holographic projection type beings or there can be, but there's not too many of them. Alright, on to the next question. Are there any particular clues that we could have about identifying OP's?

A: Is it necessary to have more clues? Remember some things are to be learned.

Q: (C) I think they're saying to start paying attention, making mental notes and figuring it out for yourself. (J) Didn't they say that generally OP's don't get abducted? (L) Well, we've certainly been given a lot of clues over the years, we just weren't ready and didn't know what they were talking about. (C) I think it's probably better, from what they're saying, if we just all figure it out from experience. You learn more by just watching than if they handed it to you. (L) Another question we had was, in areas where 3rd and 4th density are merged or merging, is it easier for Men in Black to project themselves into such a reality.

A: Of course.

Q: (J) They once said something about bi-density beings. They were like hybrids between 4th density beings and a 3rd density being. Or could such an individual be a genetically enhanced human?

A: Humans were once "bi-density." And some may be again in the natural way. Those of 4D STS "manufacture" are similar. Just think of them as a type of OP with souped up engines.

Q: (L) My next question is: I've been being a bit mouthy on the website. I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut when I see so many lies and so much fraud, and the potential for so many people being hurt. I know that things are going to be the way they are being, and that we will 'do what we will do,' but it just isn't in me to keep silent when I see what I see. What are the chances that any of my activities are going to even be helpful?

A: While it may not appear to make a difference, sometimes actions accelerate growth.

Q: (C) Do they mean personal growth or everyone's collective growth? (B) In the form of intensified lessons? (L) Yeah (laughter).

A: Personal growth. And it can lead to lessons, but also to a star for passing the test.

[... physics discussion omitted]

Q: (T) I don't know if this has been addressed before, but what are some possible causes of intermittent ear ringing? (C) I have some theories about it but I want to know if my theories are correct.

A: Monitoring as well as picking up programming signals and also some background "universe" noise.

Q: (C) The reason we ask is because I've noticed a pattern. I even keep a log about it now because it's so weird. I personally get ear ringing when it seems like I'm talking to somebody out loud or to myself about a theory about something that has to do with matrix stuff. (L) So you're being monitored? (C) Right. So any time it seems like I'm having a breakthrough thought - you know drones, the matrix, the programs, holographic inserts - all of the sudden I'll get like an ear ringing. Sometimes the left, sometimes the right, but I'm trying to find out what the pattern is. So I'm keeping track of it. (T) What process is responsible for creating the actual ringing noise?

A: Partly "interpretation" by neural processes that, at some level, recognize the potential and issue symptomatic warning.

Q: (C to T) Remember the one with Ryan, I said it was a warning one. It was the loudest ear ring I've ever had. It burned my ear. (L) So, in other words, seems that the C's are suggesting that your spiritual perception, psychic perception, is picking stuff up, transferring it in a subliminal way to your mind, and then your neural processes are trying to translate it and give you a warning. Is that what you were thinking? (C) I think so. I was wondering constantly about the idea, the concept of fake humans, holographic inserts, drones, organic portals, what ever you want to call it, and just what happened was weeee (a sound like ear ringing) and just really loud in my right ear. (L) So in a sense it's like your early warning system. (C) Ummhmm. (V) You know I don't even have to be talking to somebody, I can just be thinking about something and it'll just zheeee (a sound like ear ringing). (C) The other night is was lying in bed thinking about what you said about drones...(L) I wonder if OP's have ringing in their ears?

A: Ask one.

[Note: I think this was a clue. The C's had just said that the ear ringing was "1) monitoring; 2) picking up programming signals; 3) possibly universe background noise. And then, I just wondered out loud and they said "ask one" as though one was present!]

Q: (Laughter) (A) No, first of all there is also ear ringing which comes from physiological causes. (L) Yeah, tinnitus. So of course they could have physiological ringing in the ear. (C) It happens only when I'm thinking specifically about these kinds of matters. (T) Does the frequency of sound have any significance? (C) Yeah, 'cause sometimes their waahs, their soft, there's different tones you know, sometimes it's in the right ear, sometimes the left ear.

A: Observe and you may learn your own internal "code."

[Another odd clue: a "programming code?"]

Q: (C) That's what I thought, it's like a code. (A) I think it's like when people can use, what is it, a finger code, you can somehow train, bypass conscious interference that way. (L) Yeah, that's what it is, it's bypassing your conscious damping. We all tend to just think our ways out of things. (A) But the interesting question is can one somehow disturb this monitoring? Is it something physical that can...

A: Sure, the issue is to cover the many frequencies and shifts. White noise makers deal with some but not all!

Q: (A) I was wondering if a shot of whiskey beat it. Like, you know, when I had this experiences in Göttingen and the advice was...(L) A shot of whiskey! So you want your shot of whiskey now? (laughter) (A) Sure, to prevent being monitored!

A: In some cases a shift in chemistry also means a shift in susceptibility, but not a cessation of the activity.

Q: (L) So it ain't gonna stop it, though you might reduce - temporarily - your susceptibility. (V) Well, a slug of whiskey? Wouldn't that be just a little too easy? (A) You know we are in a non-linear world so to become even a little less susceptible can mean a lot. (V) Right. (B) Is that justification? (laughter) (L) We've got some Southern Comfort. Next? [...]
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Now, there were a lot of interesting things in this session, not the least of which were all the hints about "projection" and "reflection", "concern", "probe" and "code" - all mentioned in reference to C**. It all seemed as though the C's were giving some rather broad hints. And then, when I wondered about whether or not Organic Portals ever experienced ringing in the ears, the C's prompted me to "ask one" as though I could ask one right at that moment.

The next discussion was about the session above:

17 August 2003
Q: (L) When T** and C*** were at our house there were a number of strange remarks made in response to C***, things like Probe and reflection and projection. Were you trying in a subtle way to convey something about her or Tom?

A: Probably.

Q: (group laughter) Someone comments that it's been such a long time that the Cs can't remember. More laughter.

Q: (L) Okay, well, given this recent event with T**, can you NOW tell us what it was that you were trying to convey?

A: Well, we will let you do that, learning is fun!

Q: (L) Well, can I ask some questions about it?

A: Of course.

Q: (L) All right you guys ask some questions. [I couldn't think of any.]

Q: (J) Is T** an agent similar to Vincent Bridges?

A: Now, that is an interesting question indeed! Plug in the program and let them pop.

Q: (A) I want to know who or what is setting or popping these programs?

A: Remember C***'s story? It points to the source. Aided by 4D influences of course.
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That's it. We have spent a lot of time thinking about all this, and a few years observing and theorizing and drawing tentative conclusions, but that will have to wait. Out of time for today.
 
Another thing that has a bell curve, with many degrees between the 2 extremes, is intelligence. Good science has been done on the subject of intelligence in the past century; the evidence is that it is speed-of-thinking, and inherited and fixed.

( If unfamiliar w/subject, good intro at http://esr.ibiblio.org/index.php?p=129 )

This is why " it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail. " You can't change their IQ, like you can't change their height, so time will keep flying by them, and they're always running late.

Stupid people born into an evil culture explains a lot. This ties in with the quote LKJ had recently in another thread from the Ponerlogy book about how, when the psychopathic professor arrived, there were 3 different reactions:
1.) some resisted it from the beginning (above average IQ)
2.) some were infected with the evil culture for a while and later returned to being non-psychopathic (average IQ)
3.) some - who were not previously psychopathic - got infected with the evil culture, and remained that way (low IQ, and maybe some other factor - G's person 1/Physical type)

Perhaps "a psychopath" is someone channeling 1 of what you call 4D STS, what I have always perceived as Twisted Shadowy Creatures. We had 1 recently in Michigan:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/23/mich.slayings.ap/?section=cnn_law
 
I don't think that intelligence has anything to do with whether or not one is an Organic Portal or not. I think that this, as EsoQuest suggests above on a different matter, would be a different axis. I am quite convinced that there are many brilliant people - brilliant in a particular way - that may very well be Organic Portals. I can think of a few scientists that I would put in this category.

On this subject, the C's also had something to say:

5 August 1995

Q: (L) There was a discussion the other day and it made me curious. It seems that some people simply do not have the capacity to understand certain concepts. Is this a function of vibrational frequency?

A: That is not quite hitting at the subject matter in the way in which you desire to answer the question. In other words, it is a parallel understanding pattern. It is not vibrational frequency that determines ability to conceive of any particular notion. Vibrational frequency involves the groove, or pattern, that one has chosen in general terms. But, to give you an example, there are those who are of very LOW, as you would measure, vibrational frequency, who are able to conceive of extremely complicated issues and have also discovered extremely precise, complicated, and intricate answers to very complex notions and problems from your standpoint in the illusion.

But, the frequency vibrational level has more to do with the emotional path that leads either to Service to Self at its greatest possible expression, or Service to others at its greatest possible expression, not with intellectual capacity. So it is possible for a completely STS individual at any density level to be completely cognizant of all existence, just as it is possible for a completely STO individual to be completely cognizant of all existence. It has nothing to do with vibrational frequency because that is the emotional pathway.

Think, if you will, in your lifetime have you ever met either a) an individual that you did not perceive to be particularly intellectually developed, who was, nevertheless, of a very kind and loving and giving nature; or b)an individual whom you perceive to have great intellectual capacity who was, nevertheless, extremely selfish and non-giving and not generous and not concerned about anyone's well being but their own?
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Keep in mind that having emotions can tremendously skew and fog intellect. Imagine not having any emotional issues at all - ever - to interfere with the working of the brain? Such an individual could very easily out think you in a minute. For example, note what Lobaczewski says about the effect of the psychopath on a normal human being:

Essential psychopathy has exceptionally intense effects in this manner. Something mysterious gnaws into the personality of an individual at the mercy of such a person and is then fought like a demon. His emotions become chilled, his sense of psychological reality is stifled. This leads to de-criterialization of thought and a feeling of helplessness, culminating in depressive reactions which can be so severe that psychiatrists sometimes misdiagnose them as a manic-depressive psychosis.
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Remember that intellect is a function of the brain, a physical organ. A psychopath or an Organic Portal can have very fine brains indeed, ones that work better than yours or mine ever will. And for the psychopath, there is no emotional interferance at all - nothing to get in the way of pure, computerized thought processes that will beat out the souled individual every time.
 
This thread sparked some ideas in me and hopefully they are appropriate to this thread and don't belong entirely in a different one.

I'm wondering if perhaps a nonlinear model could be used to think about this problem...? A bell curve is a graph of a solution to a linear problem (ie. equation) and perhaps the issue we are thinking about here has a nonlinear solution (and nonlinear "graph").

From an article in Science Week (http://scienceweek.com/2005/sa050107-2.htm):

--Stanislaw Ulam (1909-1986), the celebrated Polish mathematician and godfather of the field now known as nonlinear science, remarked that using the term "nonlinear science" was like "calling the bulk of zoology the study of non-elephants". He meant that linear processes are the exception rather than the rule; that most phenomena are inherently nonlinear; and that the effects of nonlinearity are apparent everywhere in nature, from the synchronized flashing of fireflies through clear-air turbulence to tornadoes and tsunamis.--

And maybe also to the "phenomena" of OP's, souled humans, and psychopaths.

So what nonlinear "graphs" might we be able to make use of? One that comes to mind is the Mandelbrot Set (http://www.ddewey.net/mandelbrot/). Please bear with me for a more or less brief overview of that famous nonlinear diagram in order to explore further the usefulness of this "graph".

The Mandelbrot Set is not really a graph of an equation, but instead a diagram of a simple iterative process. Like the graphs of equations with two variables, the Mandelbrot Set makes use of a plane with two perpendicular axes. This plane is the plane of all values for what are called in math "complex numbers". The specific details and theory behind complex numbers are not important here and would take up too much space to explain, but the reader should know that one axis of the complex number plane corresponds to the real number line and the other axis corresponds to the "imaginary" number line. Any point on the plane has a "real" component value and an "imaginary" component value (in the same way that a point in an x-y plane would have an x value and a y value).

In mathematics, one single number can have a "real" and "imaginary" component so that a single number can be expressed for example as 3+2i where 3 is the "real" component and 2i is the "imaginary" component. If we think of a plane where the horizontal axis is the real number line and the vertical axis is the imaginary number line, then we can know where a number like 3+2i would appear on that plane. What's important to know is that each "point" on the plane can be used as a "single" number in any equation. The reason for this can be found by studying complex and imaginary numbers in mathematics (hint: it has to do with the square root of -1!).

To create the Mandelbrot Set, one would take a point on the real/imaginary plane and plug the real/imaginary "value" of that point into a simple equation, in this case, Z = Z^2 + C where Z starts as 0 and C is a constant always equal to the real/imaginary value of the point on the plane we are looking at. Of course, because Z starts as 0, the first time we calculate this equation Z ends up being equal to C (ie. the value of the point on the plane). The key to creating the Mandelbrot Set is to continue iterating through this equation by plugging in the value of Z on the left side of the equation from the current calculation/iteration into the the variable Z on the right side of the equation for the next calculation/iteration of the equation.

This iterative process is then repeated for each point (real/imaginary value) on the plane. When we do this, a curious thing happens. For the Mandelbrot Set, we are not interested in the actual values of Z throughout the iterations, we are interested in the "magnitude" of Z. The magnitude is defined as the "distance from zero" (see the link above for a more thorough explanation of magnitude). The magnitude is calculated from the resulting real and imaginary component values of Z for each iteration.

For the Mandelbrot Set, we find that the magnitude of Z behaves curiously for each point in the plane over a sufficient number of iterations. What happens is that the value of the magnitude of Z changes from iteration to iteration in a nonlinear and unpredictable way for most points. But an interesting pattern emerges, or actually two interesting patterns emerge, and we find that the behavior of the magnitude for each point on the plane fits into one of these two patterns when it's value is run through iterations of the above equation and the magnitude is calculated for each iteration.

For some of the points, the magnitude bounces around between or equal to the values 0 and 2, and it ALWAYS stays between or equal to these two limits no matter how many iterations are performed. Points on the plane that fit this pattern are said to be members of the Mandelbrot Set. All other points on the plane do something different and are considered to not be a part of the Mandelbrot Set. Eventually, over a sufficient number of iterations, the magnitudes of these other points exceed the value of 2 and from that point on ALWAYS continue growing towards infinity for any number of subsequent iterations.

In the link above given for Mandelbrot Sets, you can see images of how mathemeticians and computer programmers actually map all of this using colors. There are thousands more images available on the Internet for Mandelbrot Sets, some of them quite beautiful. Traditionally, points on the plane that are found to be a part of the Mandelbrot Set (magnitude stays between 0 and 2) are colored black in computer generated images. Other points on the plane are colored based on how many iterations it takes a point's magnitude to exceed the value of 2. As an example, one could take all points that take 5 or less iterations and color them blue on the image. All points that take 6 to 10 iterations could be purple. All points that take 11 to 15 iterations could be yellow. etc. etc. It should be noted that the actual colors assigned are arbitrary. The point of using colors is to provide a visual display of how each point in the plane actually behaves with reference to the iterative process explained above. Software for generating images of the Mandelbrot Set can be found here: http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html .

Finally, after that long "brief" explanation, I want to propose some ideas that hopefully will have some value. First I want to make a disclaimer that I am not proposing the Mandelbrot Set as the definite answer or comprehensive model for looking at the idea of OP's, Souled humans, and psychopaths. My hope is that looking at the problem in a slightly different way may give some insight into how things really work or maybe inspire others who can take these ideas further. The Mandelbrot Set may not even be the best fractal model to use in this circumstance, there are many other fractal models out there, but I'm still hoping there may be some value in looking at the problem with this particular model.

Hopefully, the reader can sort of "read between the lines" of the explanation above and kind of "hook up" in their minds how the idea behind the Mandelbrot Set applies to the problem of OP's, Souled human, and phsychopaths. I'll go through the thoughts that occur to me here. The first thought has to do with the idea of the "plane of complex numbers", or in our case, the "continuum plane" of humanity. Each human being is a discrete "point" on this continuum plane. And just like on the complex number plane, maybe we can say that each human being has "component values" that when considered together, creates a unique or relatively unique combination of components for each human. Perhaps we could think of this as the matter/spirit components? Or Being/Knowledge "measurements"? Or STS/STO components? Or intellectual/emotional/physical components? Maybe this even has something to do with Frequency Resonance Vibration. Another thought that occurs to me is the dualistic idea of Mother/Father, Feminine/Masculine. Maybe a child inherits the "component values" of its parents, one component value from each, or maybe a "mathematical" addition of the two.

The next important idea is that of an iterative "process". Maybe we can say that a human is born with something relatively constant and unique ("C" in the equation which is also the combined "component values" of the human) and this something is "plugged in" to a relatively simple process which is iterated continuously. Here, of course, we encounter the notion of time and also feedback through time. The iterated process itself is defined external to the human but still requires participation of the human with the idea of feedback from the value of the constant internal "essence" or uniqueness of the human for each and every iteration of the process. The "iterations" obviously relate to time (cyclical time?) and I'm not sure exactly what scale unit of "time" would be applied to each iteration. Maybe there are several different units at different scales? A minute, an hour, a day, a month, a year, a lifetime? Maybe something completely arbitrary? Maybe there are different types of processes that are iterated, each with it's own scale unit of time? Or maybe actions or choices or decisions could be considered discrete iterations with the "value" or results of each action feeding back into the next "iteration" (ie. action/decision/choice)?

Going further, we come to the idea of the "magnitude" of a human's combined "component values". I think magnitude in human terms is simply a type of measurement or observation about the overall current "state" of any person at any given moment. Magnitude is the "distance from zero". Perhaps "zero" is Non-Being. Or maybe "zero" is the ultimate "sleep state", the ultimate state of zero possibilities for the future. Maybe the "distance from zero" represents the current level of potential in a human to express or realize him/herself fully according to his/her true nature.

And then we get to the two different patterns that emerge from the process of iteration for each person in the continuum plane of humanity. One pattern is realized as a "boxing in" between two definite limitations (0 and 2); a "failure", so to speak, to break out of the barriers of limitation. These humans will never ever become an actualization of unlimited possibilities and creativity. They will always and forever be trapped, limited, and defined within a very small "possibility space". Humans in this "set" must live their entire lives confined within an extremely limited set of "states" that are possible for humanity in general. Compared to infinity, the relative size of this set of states is infinitesimally small. Perhaps this set of humans comprise the population of psychopaths among the rest of humanity.

So what about the other pattern? Are OP's a part of this pattern? Or are they a part of the much more limited pattern above? I think maybe "successful OP's" are a part, or subset, of the set of humans that will eventually attain infinite realization (ie. they are not in the set of humans that are eternally "boxed in" to limitation). One aspect of this second pattern is the idea of how many "iterations" it takes someone to "break out of the barriers" that limit possibilities. Perhaps OP's just take much longer then Souled humans. Maybe this is related to the ideas of short-wave cycles and long-wave cycles. In general, humans that can eventually break out of the barriers that restrict possibilities (whether they do it quickly or over much more time/iterations), seem to "bounce around" in the "lower states" until they finally do break free of limitation. In my opinion, this seems to accurately describe certain patterns that we see among people. And it would also explain why much of humanity seems confined within such a small "possibility space" or "state space". It would explain why even Souled humans seem to resemble OP's and sometimes even psychopaths until that point when any given person is able to break free of limitations on possibilities for the future. The point in time where any one person can break these limitations seems to be variable and unpredictable for each person, though patterns do abound. From the web site mentioned above:

"The Mandelbrot set, named after Benoit Mandelbrot, is a fractal. Fractals are objects that display self-similarity at various scales. Magnifying a fractal reveals small-scale details similar to the large-scale characteristics. Although the Mandelbrot set is self-similar at magnified scales, the small scale details are not identical to the whole. In fact, the Mandelbrot set is infinitely complex. Yet the process of generating it is based on an extremely simple equation involving complex numbers."

Some readers may think the ideas and associations above seem a little far-fetched (and maybe they really are!), but I would remind the reader that fractal and nonlinear processes have been found to occur extremely frequently in nature. One thing chaos researchers have discovered in the last thirty years is that the same fractal, chaotic, and nonlinear patterns seem to occur in many different places regardless of the "medium" that embodies them, as if they had an objective existence of their own on a "higher" level of order. Chaos scientists call this characteristic of these patterns "universality". The main point of this post is to express one idea about how this type of "higher level order" might be expressed through the medium of humanity - particularly with respect to Laura's questions about the differences between OP's and psychopaths. Probably there are many other ideas along the same direction, maybe even an infinite number of ideas!
 
zoobiedoo said:
So what about the other pattern? Are OP's a part of this pattern? Or are they a part of the much more limited pattern above? I think maybe "successful OP's" are a part, or subset, of the set of humans that will eventually attain infinite realization (ie. they are not in the set of humans that are eternally "boxed in" to limitation). One aspect of this second pattern is the idea of how many "iterations" it takes someone to "break out of the barriers" that limit possibilities. Perhaps OP's just take much longer then Souled humans. Maybe this is related to the ideas of short-wave cycles and long-wave cycles. In general, humans that can eventually break out of the barriers that restrict possibilities (whether they do it quickly or over much more time/iterations), seem to "bounce around" in the "lower states" until they finally do break free of limitation. In my opinion, this seems to accurately describe certain patterns that we see among people. And it would also explain why much of humanity seems confined within such a small "possibility space" or "state space". It would explain why even Souled humans seem to resemble OP's and sometimes even psychopaths until that point when any given person is able to break free of limitations on possibilities for the future. The point in time where any one person can break these limitations seems to be variable and unpredictable for each person, though patterns do abound.
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I have to say that this seems like a reasonable way to think about the problem overall though it doesn't help me to wrap my brain around the more immediate issues such as just coming to terms with understanding on a daily basis. Also, how do you deal with those issues of the C's and Sufism that propose that a goodly portion of "humanity" are on a "downward path" to "matterization." Ibn al-Arabi suggests that 3rd Density is a "crossroads" of sorts where the choice is made either for the path of greater and greater consciousness, or intensifying ignorance and traveling down the chain of "beasts". He doesn't say much more about it, but the C's talk about the contractile nature of STS and how it eventually ends up in something like a black hole, and that whatever goes into a black hole comes out on the other side as primal matter. I suppose that it does that in another universe just as there may be other universes feeding primal matter into our own. Maybe that is connected with Supernovae? Perhaps the real trigger for a supernova is a critical mass of stuff sucked into a black hole on the "other side"?

But I digress.

hkoeli said:
The 2D/3D bridge comment seems to imply that OP's are "new humans." They're just starting grade 3.
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This seems to be reasonable and in line with the "long wave cycle" mentioned by zoobiedoo as well. And if such is the case, and we are considering them as emerging from "soul pools" as in the animal kingdom, then there might certainly be different "types" depending on which branch of the animal kingdom they emerge from. My initial thought was that this might be a limited selection drawn from higher animals, but on second thought, that seems to be a sort of limitation. How do I know that, say, a soul pool of grasshoppers can't produce its own "human representative"??

It also reminds me of something the C's once said in reference to my dog, Percy:

31 May 1997

A: ...Perpendicular reality is knowledge/awareness/being matrix. Realms are merely experiential
divisions based upon consciousness energy directors.

Q: What are consciousness energy directors?

A: Compare yourself to your backyard denizen. How do each of you view calculus?

Q: Well, I don't know exactly what calculus is, but I know it is important. I never thought I was able to learn such things, so I didn't try. But, I think it is important, and someday I will know something about it. I am sure that the dog would not only think it is not useful, he would not even be aware of it. How does that relate to
consciousness energy directors?

A: All in nature seeks balance. One day, so to speak, "Percy" will indeed have an opinion of calculus.
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So, it seems we have a "knowledge/awareness/being matrix" - or at least three things to consider here. Or just two? Should "knowledge/awareness" be one thing? In the session quoted above, the issue was that knowledge and awareness could belong to a being that was very selfish while someone whose "nature of being" was very unselfish, but may not be really intellectual. Later in that same session, the C's added this:

Q: (L) Yes. I know exactly what you mean. But there is still some gap that I am trying to fathom here. I have a little theory that people who are en rapport tend to think in similar ways or with similar patterns, even if at different levels. And I think that because of emotional similarity or identity of purpose or orientation, that they might almost begin to think as one mind or move as one body, to work as a unit. ....

A: The real issue involved is one of intellectual capacity, which, in and of itself, can lead to all sorts of emotional entanglements and frictions. It does not require a differential in vibrational frequency level to produce the types of symptoms that you describe. It is merely intellectual capacity that is inferior rather than the vibrational frequency level.

Again, this vibrational frequency level involves nature of being and emotion, not intelligence.

The greater the intellectual capacity, the greater the chance that each and every facet of intellect will be available for use, growth and stimulation. The lesser the intellectual capacity, the greater the chance that some will not be available.
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So we are back at our knowledge/awareness/being matrix and here they say the FRV involves "nature of being and emotion."

Now I know that my dog has emotions. They may be primitive, but he has them. A snippet:

Q: (L) Do whales form long-lasting bonds and feel love?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Do dogs feel love?

A: Dogs feel need as love.
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And then there was this enlightening little bit:

18 July 1998
Q: (L) What is the source of this contact with this guy Dean Fagerstrom?

A: Source is partially 5th density, partially 4th density.

Q: (L) Is he really channeling Franz Liszt?

A: No. Mental imprint from hyperspace.

Q: (L) What was this device that came into his room that floated in front of his face and made the sound?

A: 4th density imprinting device.

Q: (L) What was it imprinting?

A: Knowledge.

Q: (L) Well, I would like to play Franz Liszt! Why haven't we had something like this?

A: You do not get to choose the nature of interaction with 4th density STS! Unless of course hamsters, chirpy little birds in cages and sweet, sad, dependent doggie "friends" get to choose the nature of their interactions with you!

Q: (L) So, you are comparing Mr. Dean Fagerstrom to a hamster, a bird, or a doggie?

A: Why not? It is the same thing.

Q: (L) And, he seems to be very obedient! (T) So, they are just jerking him and other people around through him.

A: Yes.
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Now, let me say that for the past few years, after being introduced to this idea, I've spent a LOT of time intensely reviewing in my mind, all the many people I have known over the years as well as a number of people I've been able to observe more recently, looking for clues. The C's said that psychopaths were the failures, but the really "good" ones are almost impossible to detect except maybe with years of observation and experience.

Note that in the session quoted above the C's mentioned that aliens do not abduct Organic Portals. One night when we had a whole slew of guests, (a number of folks from the local MUFON organization) the following exchange took place:

25 Feb 1995
Q: (L) Has anybody in this room not got an implant?
A: L*****.
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Not gonna reveal the name, but it was someone I knew very well for about 25 years who caused me and my children a lot of grief and suffering in ways too numerous to mention, but none of them having anything to do with being "bad." So, I've thought about that a lot and thought about the many clues that were there that I didn't understand at the time, but which make so much sense now.

hkoeli said:
If psychopaths are failed OP's, perhaps they fail in the sense that they are too 2D, and not 3D enough (in other words, they're completely animal, with no possibility of further growth).
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Somehow, I don't think that is it either. (Being reminded of the exchange about my dog and the hamsters, birdies, and doggies remark.)

The C's said that the "test" was "do you ever hurt for another?"

I KNOW that my dog knows when someone is upset and it upsets him. Yes, it may be related to need; if his "people" aren't in top form, he may not get fed, but he definitely can feel agitated if things are not "peaceful." He also absolutely will NOT tolerate any aggressive behavior between two people. But that is instinctive, almost, since he is a sheepdog and aggressive behavior spells danger for him.

So I think that there is something deeper in that "test." I think it refers to an abstraction; being able to perceive someone else's SPIRITUAL pain and empathizing.

This is, in fact, the main thing I noticed about L*** mentioned above, who did not "have an implant." In all the years I knew him, I NEVER saw him once demonstrate an ability to comprehend emotional pain and suffering . He certainly understood physical pain to some extent IF there was an outward manifestation. If someone was burned or bleeding or had a swelling or something that could be SEEN, he had awareness of pain, even if he only gave it lip service. But something as unseeable as a backache or a headache where there is no physical evidence of anything wrong, he simply couldn't grok. And forget emotional pain altogether! If I ever tried to explain such things to him, his response was "you think too much."

Another thing that I have noticed in my mental review, which I then experimented with in relation to a couple of individuals that I was curious about and it seems to be a solid "test", is "the ability to learn from a particular situation and then transfer that learning to another situation that is similar in INTERNAL dynamics, but completely different in external form."

hkoeli said:
If we look at the phenomenon in terms of STO/STS, I think OP's are (at least in this cycle) STS, with no possibility for STO development (i.e. graduating to 4D STO).
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Very likely. As the C's pointed out, subject to discussion of course:

Q: (L) Okay, now we have a couple of questions we want to get to here. You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?

A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.
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So since C's have said that this planet was taken over by STS (and that seems pretty obvious based on observation), the likelihood of advancement for the Organic Portal is slim to none.

hkoeli said:
I see Adamic humanity as having the potential either for STO or STS. That means that a being that advances to 4D STS has the complete potential of higher centers, but consciously chooses to pervert them, to stifle his/her conscience. The psychopath has NO choice.
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Seems reasonable. Especially if the psychopath is a defective Organic Portal.

hkoeli said:
In other words, the souled-psychopath seems even MORE terrifying. It HAS a conscience and USES its energy to become more entropic.
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I wonder if it might not be better to use a different term for the "souled psychopath?" Maybe part of the problem of studying such things is that the science of psychology isn't looking at it from the proper perspective so that taxonomic categories can be more fully explicated?

I'm reading all these stacks of books by the "experts" on the subject, and it is pretty clear that there is some serious confusion there. If, as the C's said, a psychopath is a "failed Organic Portal," then there is no soul so we can't talk about a "souled psychopath." But I DO know what you mean here, but this point needs some thought.

hkoeli said:
I think this is what Ra implies about STS graduates--they have the higher centers, but skip a few steps to take the path of entropy. But I still can't answer your question "Do they belong on the graph of potentially souled, but having "sold their souls to the devil" (figuratively speaking), or do they belong on the graph of Organic Portals?"
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Here I meant something a little different than to suggest that they might have souls. That was the reason for the "figuratively speaking." I was putting them at the other end of the graph, the graph being one of "soul=having or not having." Sorry if I was confusing.

But we still have that question of "souled psychopaths" even if we think that we need a different term so as to distinguish them from "essential psychopaths," or critters without soul.

hkoeli said:
Perhaps they're the result of living many incarnations on the path to STS, having started with a soul-potential. This would make sense, as when asked for examples of harvestable STS beings, Ra mentioned Rasputin, Goering, Himmler, and Genghis Khan. Himmler seems like the Hitler's Dick Cheney. But if we go with Ra's examples, they imply that these men DID have higher centers but skipped 'heart center,' I believe. Perhaps there are more psychopath taxons than we know. Were the C's implying that "essential" psychpaths were the failed OP's? What about characteropaths?
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Exactly the problem. The differences between essential psychopaths and maybe "secondary" psychopaths, though even that distinction is less than satisfying.

esoquest said:
For the early Christians, for example, it may be that a core reason for their persecution was the adoption of an "us vs. them" attitude regarding pre-Adamics to the extent that they provoked the establishment against them, when they could have better organized under the radar so to speak.
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Tacitus tells us about them:

The first ones to be seized were those who confessed; then on their information a vast multitude was convicted, not so much on the charge of incendiarism as because of their hatred of humanity.
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Notice that the information about their beliefs was only obtained after they were seized and had "confessed." Pretty much the same thing was said by Pliny the Younger:

So I thought it the more necessary to extract the truth even by torture from two maidservants who were called deaconesses. I found nothing save a vile superstition carried to an immoderate length.
The contagion of the superstition has pervaded not only the cities but the villages and country districts as well. Yet it seems that it can be halted and cured.
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So, yeah, maybe it was an "us vs them" thing in a sense - that is "us normal humans with feelings vs the pathocrats who are obviously soulless" kind of thing. That could sure be a threat to the control of psychopaths. But they obviously saw some advantages in the idea and converted it to "us vs them" in a completely different context: the saved vs the damned.

esoquest said:
The way I see it is that the human energy system is a whole. There is no way a human can function without higher centers any more than people can walk around with their heads cut off. Rather I would say that in OP's the vibration spectrum is more restricted from top to bottom. In other words, the vibration potential, amplitude as well as the frequency spectrum of response is far more limited in OP's than in "Adamics".
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If the higher centers are the "soul centers," then the pre-Adamic, or Organic Portals have a connection to a sort of "higher center," as in the "soul pool" similar to soul pools of the animal kingdom.

esoquest said:
First, OP's would be restricted both in what they can recieve through their centers and in what they can radiate or output. The restrictions would manifest as a limited reality window as well as a limited window of options of expression.

Second, the restricted nature of their centers would manifest as a correspondingly restricted comfort zone of experience, with dissonance generated when the boundaries of tolerance are violated. The comfort zone would include manifestations of the lower and upper energy centers. Anything that pushes the envelope of that comfort zone would invariably generate dissonance within the OP, and would most likely be perceived as a threat.
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I'm not too sure about this. If, for example, there are many different types of Organic Portals, and each grouping of types is connected to a different soul pool, then there can be many options for expression. Certainly, within each type/group, there would be a "restricted comfort zone," but again, with many different groupings of type, that could be quite variable.

esoquest said:
Third, to maintain the integrity of experience within the limits of their comfort zone, OP's would be inclined to structure their lives accordingly on individual and social scales. Rigidity in the upper centers would then lead to the imposition and maintenance of ridgid belief systems. Ridgidity in the lower centers would lead to an inability to extend the action/reaction principle beyond the realm of instinct. As a whole OP's would try to balance upper and lower ridgidities with ritualistic mechanization of life style. They would seek to place taboos on both the biological potential, as well as taboos on thought and creativity.
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"Rigidity in the upper centers" can as easily be related to soul pool characteristics and less to "individuated higher centers."

Think, for example, of an Organic Portal emerging from a "wolf soul pool." Or how about one emerging from a "cat soul pool." Or a "dog soul pool." Or a "rabbit soul pool." Gives an all new meaning to "Playboy Bunnies," eh? Definitely different from the righteous Cotton Mather type, or Don Rumsfeld.
 
Ruth said:
Did those 4D created trans-density organic portals (the ones with the 'souped up' engines) mean Greys or Humans or did they mean both? I'm assuming that greys have no souls but they are very good at mimicing souls kind of like OPs and they belong to some sort of hive and are trandensity.
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My impression is that the "Greys" (if they in fact exist) are 4D-based beings - this is mentioned in a few different places in the transcripts.

Is a 'failed' OP simply not an OP at all, but either a souled person or a psychopath (meaning one fails to be an OP by choice and the other is simply broken)?
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There is a clear distinction made between OP's and "souled" people, and they describe psychopaths as failed OPs. What data do you have that suggests otherwise? Why would a someone fail to be an OP "by choice"? That makes no sense to me.

And I'm wondering if a souled person can chose to be a psychopath.
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Yes, the question of "souled" 4D STS candidates and their relation to psychopathy is still a big "grey" area (pun intended). ;)

It would be interesting to know if, say, Rumsfeld or Cheney were considered 4D STS harvestable in contrast to Dubya, who seems to fit much more into the "failed OP"/psychopath profile. But that's just speculation on my part.
 
Laura said:
I'm not too sure about this. If, for example, there are many different types of Organic Portals, and each grouping of types is connected to a different soul pool, then there can be many options for expression. Certainly, within each type/group, there would be a "restricted comfort zone," but again, with many different groupings of type, that could be quite variable.
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"Soul pools" in OP's certainly seems like a transitory state between the animal (higher mammal) condition and the fully individuated human. This makes sense, given that OP's seem to be a bridge within the context of human physiology between the animal state, which is soul pool linked over whole species and OP's which seem to form soul pool groups. This would mean that OP's of different groups are triggered by different things (and we observe this through the variation of customs and taboos in human social groups). It would also explain conflicts between soul pool groups in OP societies, where one group's "comfort zone" clashes with another groups taboo field.

One thing I would like to ask. Animal soul pools are stable within a uniform genetic context. If there are different soul pools of OP's, that is different soul pools within the same species, would they not be more unstable because of genetic proximity? Would there be dangers of bleed-through between soul pools that may destabilize them or cause confusion in the different groups?

Certainly, the question also arises, with differeing soul pools, would the OP's themselves not tend to resist the NWO, or any form of global culture?

Here is another point. Shamans can apparently commune with animal soul pools. Do you think a similar method of communion can be possible with OP soul pools? Perhaps that might be a way to prevent mass OP possession at some point. Certainly, a soul pool is like a kind of archetype of any particular OP group. It would be like contacting the whole group through the pool source.
 
Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can I know if I have a soul?

A: Do you ever hurt for another?

Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.

A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control.
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So are OP's completely soul less or do they have group souls? If they have group souls, or soul pools, it seems they are organic fragments of a collective system. It is interesting that the C's called them "portals", which implies a gateway between the two levels of density and hence under the influence of both. I would almost expect the name give to be "organic transitions" or "bridges". This sounds like nit-picking, but a portal allows two sides to communicate, and has influences by both.

I wonder if empathic capability is more complex than an either/or state. Maybe it should be part of the graph as a gradual transition state over a population as well. Certainly the term "no soul" seems different, to me at least, than the term "part of a soul pool". An individualized human going down an entropic path would have to at least repress or deny their soul essence, but it is hard to imagine losing it completely and permanently.

I would think that organic portals might actually have a full spectrum of inner conflicts that individualized humans may have a hard time understanding, given that they reside at a proverbial dimensional boundary layer, especially if one considers these densities as quantized states, distinct in the same way portions of a 1D standing wave are separated by harmonic nodes (still-points in the wave train). Then a portal would be some kind of indeterminate condition. Are all organic portals then equal or do they constitute a spectrum extending from mostly 2D to mostly 3D?

Furthermore, when you extend compassion to a mammal, often the mammal can feel it. Many animals seem to be attracted and to favour empathic individuals (at least the ones that have no reason to fear humans). Certainly then OP's can respond to human emphathy even if they do not generate it on their own. It still seems to me that the situation is a bit more complex than simply one between the haves and the have nots.
 
Ryan said:
It would be interesting to know if, say, Rumsfeld or Cheney were considered 4D STS harvestable in contrast to Dubya, who seems to fit much more into the "failed OP"/psychopath profile. But that's just speculation on my part.
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Perhaps characteropaths are failed OP's and essential psychopaths are 4D harvestable? But that would imply that Rumsfeld or Cheney have some type of soul potential, which goes against the psycho=no soul distinction. Or perhaps STS harvestable humans are indistinguishable from essential psychopaths? Maybe the difference isn't detectable by any psychological means?

EsoQuest said:
So are OP's completely soul less or do they have group souls? If they have group souls, or soul pools, it seems they are organic fragments of a collective system. It is interesting that the C's called them "portals", which implies a gateway between the two levels of density and hence under the influence of both. I would almost expect the name give to be "organic transitions" or "bridges". This sounds like nit-picking, but a portal allows two sides to communicate, and has influences by both.
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I thought the term "portal" was used to refer to both their being a "bridge" between 2D and 3D, AND being "open" to 4D control. They are the portal through which Adamic soul-energy is directed towards 4D; they're a vector of attack (4D to 3D), vector of drainage (3D to 4D).
 
I have taken it upon myself to try to take the information thus far and put it into a bell shaped graph (to some degree). http://dickeatsbush.com/densitychain.htm I really sincerely hope someone will at least give it a look over, likely so I can see if I am even grasping the nature and depth of this topic.
I don't have any super bells and whistles program(s) so you will have to settle with a picture done in paint. "I THINK" I am getting it and tried my best to make sense of the information provided and duplicate it in a graphical sense.
 
The first time I read about Organic Portals I remember thinking how interesting it was but the full magnitude of the idea did not fully register with me until much later. The realization of its significance and its truthfulness was a very painful one for me (and it still is) since I was ALWAYS under the belief that we all had the potential for souls. But deep down I knew that this idea was true only because it explained a LOT for me concerning how the world worked and why the world was as it was.

I simply could not understand why SOME people acted as viciously as they did, especially in the corperate enviroment. There were certain TYPES of people I simply could not explain to myself as to why they did the things that they did. It seemed that these types would always go far, far into excess when getting what they want. In other words, in the work environment you have the ‘dog eat dog’ type of competitiveness. OK, fair enough. I could accept and deal with that. BUT there was a very small percentage of people in this enviroment that would go far beyond what any normal person would ever consider necessary in order to navigate within this competitive environment.

There was a certain subtle cut throat sinisterness about these types of people that I simply could not explain. They would inexplicably always put an inordinate amount of emotional energy into undermining the simple relationships between the people at the work place so that they could get ahead, even though, practically speaking, all of this negativity was not at all required for them to achieve what they wanted to really achieve. It was just so unnecessary. The idea of OP’s and ‘failed OP’s' helped explain certain things for me.

This small percentage of people that would subtly but viscously undermine the relationships of the people in the work environment would very possibly be explained by the idea of ‘failed Op’s or psychopaths. Then there were those who seemed to follow
such people until it became the NORM of the workplace. These ‘followers’ of this small percentage might be your ‘normal OP’ types who were really kind of neutral or amoral to what was going on. They simply followed the strongest force, whether it be good or bad. But it was always the small percentage that seemed to have the rule of law.

When such negative attitudes became the norm then anyone who might question it with ‘soul like’ attitudes would be secretly laughed at or hated and made to question and doubt themselves. It was this negative attitude, which had become the norm, that was now giving everyone their livelihood. It had a certain power. The attitude itself now sucked the life out of the relationships. To question this attitude was now risky to those who questioned it. Loss of comfort and personal welfare were now at risk.

Possibly the ‘average’ OP simply goes where the wind blows and the ‘’failed OP’s'
causes the ‘wicked wind’ that blows over the landscape.. The souled person, I think, questions all of this but often fails to act because their questioning is stifled by the rationalizations of this small group that has the power. This stifiling causes a kind of hesitation in the potentially souled persons mind and this hesitation allows the ‘group think’ of the larger group, which is now run by this small percentage of individuals, to overpower and rule. The potentially souled persons potentialty now remains in a potential state and ceases to actualize.

I think, the OP wants to ‘do good’ but they are by nature amoral and can only seek to have good and evil defined for them since they do not have the innate moral capacity
to define it for themselves. Then you have the ‘failed OP’s, who if they have the power, can and will define it for them.

BUT, now having said that there is now the possibility of genetic tweaking which possibly makes your average OP more in alignment with the failed ones. All I can say is that, from my own observations, there is now a quality of ‘sameness’ in many of the people I have observed. Its much like you might observe in an army of soldiers or ants (Nazis especially) all marching in the same step. The people themselves might not have the capacity to become cognizant of this 'sameness’. When the people who are doing the 'goosestepping' look at each other they may only see differences in each other, much as a social security number is different then another, but this sense of 'difference' that they have is, in my view, really an illusion since they think that they are different only because they are under the illusion that they have individuality and free will. They do not realize that they are really the same and there is very little difference between them at all.

Because of their deluded state these people might be seeing differences in themselves when in reality, they are really seeing sameness that they mistake for difference. But a person who is more objective and a person with a potential soul, might be able to see this ‘sameness’ in these people where these people can only see differences. What makes people really individualistic and 'different' is their capacity to feel right and wrong within the context of any specific situation. The group that only follows amoral ‘group think’does not have this capacity and this is what really makes them all similar. They can only see pseudo-differences in themselves when, in fact, they are really the same. They can only think what they are told to think. In this respect they are really the same.

I think that Ouspensky said that animals can more or less only recognize differences in things. In other words, if a dog sees a chair in a room it will recognize that chair with respect to how it feels. In the room where it is fed and petted it sees a chair in that room with respect to its being fed and petted. In another room, where it is beaten, it sees another chair in the new room with respect to that. It could only see differences in the two chairs and is not cognizant of the similarities in how the two chairs relate that makes them the same.

In other words one chair is 'what it is' in the room where the dog is fed and another chair is 'what it is' in the room it is beaten. Otherwise the animal is indifferent to the chairs. The quality of ‘chairness’ does not exist for the animal. However certain animals might see abstract similarities but to a much more limited degree. My apologies if I'm unclear since I wrote this rather quickly.
 
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